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Win, Lose, or Draw in Afghanistan?

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Re: Win, Lose, or Draw in Afghanistan?

Post by LawBeefaroni » Wed Sep 19, 2012 3:22 pm

Carpet_pissr wrote:
GreenGoo wrote:
Arcanis wrote:The high number of blue on green casualties is enough for me to say screw them and leave them to rot in their cesspool. I don't give a crap about them or improving their lives anymore, they obviously don't want to change enough to elevate their quality of life.
There was little evidence that they ever wanted your help in the first place. Afghanistan was about terrorists, from start to finish. Iraq was about all sorts of things depending on who you asked, and when, but I think it settled in on forcing iraq to be democratic.

I'm not actually trying to a dick, I just don't think the Afghani were ever looking for help. They mostly like being backasswards tribes preying off each other, as far as I can tell.
Agree
They wanted our help in the 80s, IIRC, when we hooked up the Mujahideen. Don't forget that they lost around 2M back then so as far as they're concerned, we're talking peanuts right now.
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Re: Win, Lose, or Draw in Afghanistan?

Post by GreenGoo » Wed Sep 19, 2012 3:27 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote:
Carpet_pissr wrote:
GreenGoo wrote:
Arcanis wrote:The high number of blue on green casualties is enough for me to say screw them and leave them to rot in their cesspool. I don't give a crap about them or improving their lives anymore, they obviously don't want to change enough to elevate their quality of life.
There was little evidence that they ever wanted your help in the first place. Afghanistan was about terrorists, from start to finish. Iraq was about all sorts of things depending on who you asked, and when, but I think it settled in on forcing iraq to be democratic.

I'm not actually trying to a dick, I just don't think the Afghani were ever looking for help. They mostly like being backasswards tribes preying off each other, as far as I can tell.
Agree
They wanted our help in the 80s, IIRC, when we hooked up the Mujahideen. Don't forget that they lost around 2M back then so as far as they're concerned, we're talking peanuts right now.
That could be, I'm not familiar with what was going on in the 80's. I thought you guys just fought the Russians by proxy via Afghanistan back then.

In any case, I shouldn't have used the word "ever". I meant "ever" in the current conflict context.

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Re: Win, Lose, or Draw in Afghanistan?

Post by Holman » Wed Sep 19, 2012 6:42 pm

GreenGoo wrote:
Arcanis wrote:The high number of blue on green casualties is enough for me to say screw them and leave them to rot in their cesspool. I don't give a crap about them or improving their lives anymore, they obviously don't want to change enough to elevate their quality of life.
There was little evidence that they ever wanted your help in the first place. Afghanistan was about terrorists, from start to finish. Iraq was about all sorts of things depending on who you asked, and when, but I think it settled in on forcing iraq to be democratic.

I'm not actually trying to a dick, I just don't think the Afghani were ever looking for help. They mostly like being backasswards tribes preying off each other, as far as I can tell.
I think we were welcomed in many parts of Afghanistan when we invaded. There was already a civil war going, and many Afghans saw foreign invaders as preferable to the Taliban.

Mostly, I imagine, they're a society wrung out top to bottom from constant warfare. They want us gone, not because they're somehow beyond redemption but because we've failed like every other promised solution.
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Re: Win, Lose, or Draw in Afghanistan?

Post by YellowKing » Thu Sep 20, 2012 8:31 am

I think we were welcomed in many parts of Afghanistan when we invaded.
Yep, because we're stupid rich Americans that are easy to steal from. My buddy who went over there had a job building schools, generators, etc. for villages. They'd move in, throw some generators up or something to produce clean water. Come back two or three weeks later and everything would have been dismantled, stripped for parts, and sold.

He said the culture difference was almost insurmountable. One example he gave was when they were trying to teach a safety class for some Afghans that were being given work on a construction project. One of the lessons was the importance of using a hard hat, in case a hammer fell. The Afghans didn't want to do that, because if a hammer fell on their head and killed them then it was God's will.

He went over there gung-ho to help the people and make a difference. He came back bitter, disappointed, and not giving a shit what happened to any of them.

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Re: Win, Lose, or Draw in Afghanistan?

Post by Carpet_pissr » Thu Sep 20, 2012 9:05 am

Interesting. I wonder if that is a prevailing feeling among soldiers as well?

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Re: Win, Lose, or Draw in Afghanistan?

Post by Combustible Lemur » Thu Sep 20, 2012 10:14 am

YellowKing wrote:
I think we were welcomed in many parts of Afghanistan when we invaded.
Yep, because we're stupid rich Americans that are easy to steal from. My buddy who went over there had a job building schools, generators, etc. for villages. They'd move in, throw some generators up or something to produce clean water. Come back two or three weeks later and everything would have been dismantled, stripped for parts, and sold.

He said the culture difference was almost insurmountable. One example he gave was when they were trying to teach a safety class for some Afghans that were being given work on a construction project. One of the lessons was the importance of using a hard hat, in case a hammer fell. The Afghans didn't want to do that, because if a hammer fell on their head and killed them then it was God's will.

He went over there gung-ho to help the people and make a difference. He came back bitter, disappointed, and not giving a shit what happened to any of them.
That sounds like being poor and uneducated, not necessarily culturally different.

The main reason a lot of contractors wear safety gear is that their employers will fire them because of insurance.
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Re: Win, Lose, or Draw in Afghanistan?

Post by Rip » Thu Sep 20, 2012 12:50 pm

Combustible Lemur wrote:
YellowKing wrote:
I think we were welcomed in many parts of Afghanistan when we invaded.
Yep, because we're stupid rich Americans that are easy to steal from. My buddy who went over there had a job building schools, generators, etc. for villages. They'd move in, throw some generators up or something to produce clean water. Come back two or three weeks later and everything would have been dismantled, stripped for parts, and sold.

He said the culture difference was almost insurmountable. One example he gave was when they were trying to teach a safety class for some Afghans that were being given work on a construction project. One of the lessons was the importance of using a hard hat, in case a hammer fell. The Afghans didn't want to do that, because if a hammer fell on their head and killed them then it was God's will.

He went over there gung-ho to help the people and make a difference. He came back bitter, disappointed, and not giving a shit what happened to any of them.
That sounds like being poor and uneducated, not necessarily culturally different.

The main reason a lot of contractors wear safety gear is that their employers will fire them because of insurance.

I would guess being addicted to opium is helping a lot of them either.

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Re: Win, Lose, or Draw in Afghanistan?

Post by Combustible Lemur » Thu Sep 20, 2012 12:59 pm

Rip wrote:
I would guess being addicted to opium is helping a lot of them either.
I know, right? We need to send them some shipments of sleeping pills and pharmaceutical painkillers.
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Re: Win, Lose, or Draw in Afghanistan?

Post by Kraken » Sat Jan 12, 2013 2:43 pm

Today brought reports that the US is transitioning power to Afghan forces ahead of schedule. The Afghanis are already responsible for 80% of combat operations (although with US and NATO help), and will be up to 90% later this year. Speculation is that we will bring home more troops in 2013 than originally envisioned.

Meanwhile, the post-2014 force could be anywhere from 0-10,000 strong, depending in part upon negotiating troop immunity.

Does this indicate that US objectives are going better than planned? Is it a fig leaf for cutting our losses?

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Re: Win, Lose, or Draw in Afghanistan?

Post by Pyperkub » Sun Jan 13, 2013 6:31 pm

GreenGoo wrote:That could be, I'm not familiar with what was going on in the 80's. I thought you guys just fought the Russians by proxy via Afghanistan back then.

In any case, I shouldn't have used the word "ever". I meant "ever" in the current conflict context.
Really? It is incredibly relevant today - not only did we arm and train the Afghans to fight the Russians, but Osama bin Laden was one of them, as were many other eventual members of Al Qaeda and other foes:
During in the 1970s, when the Russia was the biggest threat to America and radical Islam was not as a concern of the USA’s, the USA began funding and training Islamic militants to fight our Russian enemies in Afghanistan.

These militants, known as the mujahideen would rebel the Russians out of Afghanistan and later become the Taliban, Al Qaeda and the Muslim Brotherhood.

One of the most prominent members of he mujahideen was a wealthy son of a Saudi Arabian businessman named Osama Bin Laden.
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Re: Win, Lose, or Draw in Afghanistan?

Post by dbt1949 » Sun Jan 13, 2013 9:41 pm

By this time I don't care about Afghanistan. Let's just pull out as soon as feasible. Send in drones and cruise missiles as necessary.
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Re: Win, Lose, or Draw in Afghanistan?

Post by GreenGoo » Mon Jan 14, 2013 12:16 am

Pyperkub wrote:
GreenGoo wrote:That could be, I'm not familiar with what was going on in the 80's. I thought you guys just fought the Russians by proxy via Afghanistan back then.

In any case, I shouldn't have used the word "ever". I meant "ever" in the current conflict context.
Really? It is incredibly relevant today - not only did we arm and train the Afghans to fight the Russians, but Osama bin Laden was one of them, as were many other eventual members of Al Qaeda and other foes:
During in the 1970s, when the Russia was the biggest threat to America and radical Islam was not as a concern of the USA’s, the USA began funding and training Islamic militants to fight our Russian enemies in Afghanistan.

These militants, known as the mujahideen would rebel the Russians out of Afghanistan and later become the Taliban, Al Qaeda and the Muslim Brotherhood.

One of the most prominent members of he mujahideen was a wealthy son of a Saudi Arabian businessman named Osama Bin Laden.
I'm not sure your post is in context with my post from nearly 4 months ago. My comments were about this current conflict and whether the people of Afghanistan wanted us there at all (in terms of their cooperation, training and governance with the US). The comments about the 80's/70's were that I thought the US was simply training and supplying the people of Afghanistan to make life hard for the occupying Russians, rather than building alliances for purposes beyond those short term goals.

I didn't read your article yet admittedly, but I'm scratching my head on why you quoted me and then quoted that part of the article. I assume you think they are relevant to each other. I guess I'll go back 4 months to see if I'm missing something from the context of the thread.

Edit: Ok, skimmed the article. So now I really don't get why you quoted me or what you thought you were showing me. That the US created Osama? I thought that was general knowledge these days. That's certainly what I was referencing when I mentioned fighting the Russians by proxy.

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Re: Win, Lose, or Draw in Afghanistan?

Post by Holman » Mon Jan 14, 2013 8:53 am

dbt1949 wrote:By this time I don't care about Afghanistan. Let's just pull out as soon as feasible. Send in drones and cruise missiles as necessary.
That's pretty much what we're doing. At this point, the troops are just there to legitimize the drones.
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Re: Win, Lose, or Draw in Afghanistan?

Post by LawBeefaroni » Mon Jan 14, 2013 2:02 pm

GreenGoo wrote:
I didn't read your article yet admittedly, but I'm scratching my head on why you quoted me and then quoted that part of the article. I assume you think they are relevant to each other. I guess I'll go back 4 months to see if I'm missing something from the context of the thread.

Edit: Ok, skimmed the article. So now I really don't get why you quoted me or what you thought you were showing me. That the US created Osama? I thought that was general knowledge these days. That's certainly what I was referencing when I mentioned fighting the Russians by proxy.
We're inextricably intermingled in their current situation through our recent (and the 80s are recent in geopolitical time scales) actions.

Sure we viewed it as a forgettable proxy battleground. They bear the scars and memories (and any benefits) so it's not like us forgetting about it makes it go away. Two current major players in the whole Middle East/African region, the Taliban and Muslim Brotherhood, were born out of the US-backed Afghan resistance. And of course Al Qaeda as well.

I assume Pyperkub was repsonding to this:
That could be, I'm not familiar with what was going on in the 80's. I thought you guys just fought the Russians by proxy via Afghanistan back then.

In any case, I shouldn't have used the word "ever". I meant "ever" in the current conflict context.
Context of the current conflict is the 1980s.
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Re: Win, Lose, or Draw in Afghanistan?

Post by Holman » Mon Jan 14, 2013 3:03 pm

I just can't resist quoting myself from earlier in this thread:
Holman wrote:Gorbachev: Afghanistan is America's Afghanistan.
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Re: Win, Lose, or Draw in Afghanistan?

Post by GreenGoo » Mon Jan 14, 2013 3:13 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote:Context of the current conflict is the 1980s.
Oh. That's certainly an interesting way to look at it, and I suppose it's true, kinda. It's more like the fallout from America's behaviour in the 80's is the current conflict. I think you'd be hard pressed to call the current conflict an extension of the 80's conflict.

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Re: Win, Lose, or Draw in Afghanistan?

Post by LawBeefaroni » Mon Jan 14, 2013 3:20 pm

GreenGoo wrote:
LawBeefaroni wrote:Context of the current conflict is the 1980s.
Oh. That's certainly an interesting way to look at it, and I suppose it's true, kinda. It's more like the fallout from America's behaviour in the 80's is the current conflict. I think you'd be hard pressed to call the current conflict an extension of the 80's conflict.
I'm saying you can't have a meaningful discussion of the current Afghanistan situation and potential resolution without including the conflict in the 80s. And I don't mean in a meta philosophical "history of the world" type way where everything led to everything after it. I mean in the same way you can't talk about resolving WWII without talking about the treaty that ended WWI. Unlike how you can talk about the US exit from Vietnam without talking about the US Civil War.
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Re: Win, Lose, or Draw in Afghanistan?

Post by GreenGoo » Mon Jan 14, 2013 3:24 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote:
GreenGoo wrote:
LawBeefaroni wrote:Context of the current conflict is the 1980s.
Oh. That's certainly an interesting way to look at it, and I suppose it's true, kinda. It's more like the fallout from America's behaviour in the 80's is the current conflict. I think you'd be hard pressed to call the current conflict an extension of the 80's conflict.
I'm saying you can't have a meaningful discussion of the current Afghanistan situation and potential resolution without including the conflict in the 80s. And I don't mean in a meta philosophical "history of the world" type way where everything led to everything after it. I mean in the same way you can't talk about resolving WWII without talking about the treaty that ended WWI. Unlike how you can talk about the US exit from Vietnam without talking about the US Civil War.
I never refuted that. When you said they wanted our help in the 80's in response to my saying they didn't want our help "ever", I thought I clarified when I said "ever" within the current invasion/occupation/democracizing.

I think there must be a subtle misunderstanding in here somewhere, because I don't think we're necessarily in disagreement about anything.

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Re: Win, Lose, or Draw in Afghanistan?

Post by LawBeefaroni » Mon Jan 14, 2013 3:33 pm

GreenGoo wrote: I never refuted that. When you said they wanted our help in the 80's in response to my saying they didn't want our help "ever", I thought I clarified when I said "ever" within the current invasion/occupation/democracizing.

I think there must be a subtle misunderstanding in here somewhere, because I don't think we're necessarily in disagreement about anything.
I'm was just talking about your recent response to PK, not your response back then. You said, "I meant "ever" in the current conflict context." I was just reiterating that there's a largely unbroken continuum from the conflict in the 80s to the conflict now. Many factions from 1980s war never laid down their US-made and donated arms and have been fighting for 30+ years. The "current conflict" is the merely a continuation of the "other conflict".
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Re: Win, Lose, or Draw in Afghanistan?

Post by Jaymann » Tue Jan 15, 2013 1:38 am

I think I'm gonna have to go with...

Draw.
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Re: Win, Lose, or Draw in Afghanistan?

Post by Holman » Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:32 am

Soon we'll be able to decide for ourselves.
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Re: Win, Lose, or Draw in Afghanistan?

Post by Redfive » Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:45 am

LawBeefaroni wrote:... Two current major players in the whole Middle East/African region, the Taliban and Muslim Brotherhood, were born out of the US-backed Afghan resistance. And of course Al Qaeda as well.
The Muslim Brotherhood has been around a lot longer than the 80s.
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Re: Win, Lose, or Draw in Afghanistan?

Post by LawBeefaroni » Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:48 pm

Maybe we've been looking at Afghanistan the wrong way the whole time. It could be like an adult Disney land for Westerners who want to shoot people like they do in video games. I mean go to Vegas to play strip billiards and then fly to Afghanistan to gun down little blips on the FLIR screen. Awesome, brah.
In another edit of the footage, posted online by The Guardian, Prince Harry, who is known as Captain Wales in the army, explained that he was glad to have been “pushed forward to the front seat,” the one reserved for the attack helicopter’s gunner. That was, he said, “a joy for me because I’m one of those people that loves playing PlayStation and Xbox, so with my thumbs I like to think I’m probably quite useful — if you ask the guys I thrash them at FIFA the whole time,” referring to a popular video game series.
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Re: Win, Lose, or Draw in Afghanistan?

Post by Holman » Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:56 pm

Ack. I thought the whole deal with the Royal Family was that they were suffered to continue as long as they didn't open their mouths?
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Re: Win, Lose, or Draw in Afghanistan?

Post by GreenGoo » Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:04 pm

That's like the boss bragging about how good a poker player he is, because he beats everyone when the gang gets together from work. Or he's a really good golfer and always beats his team when they go for a round. Yeah. Everyone is giving it their all but you are managing to beat them because you're awesome. It has nothing to do with being a member of the royal family.

In any case, he wouldn't be the first young soldier to say something stupid like that (killing people is just like video games). The truth is, it's almost certainly similar. His only mistake was being excited and gleeful about it, and that's a mistake any young person can make, due to immaturity or a lack of perspective or awareness.

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Re: Win, Lose, or Draw in Afghanistan?

Post by LordMortis » Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:16 pm

Screw youth. (unless your maturity level is truly low enough that you don't value human life, which I am sure is also possible) How else do you rationalize gunning down people and being shot at from a helicopter? The Taliban say it's because so many become "mentally unstable", I'd think it's as often as not, a coping mechanism to keep you sane when you've been socialized to value human life.

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Re: Win, Lose, or Draw in Afghanistan?

Post by Holman » Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:50 pm

GreenGoo wrote: In any case, he wouldn't be the first young soldier to say something stupid like that (killing people is just like video games). The truth is, it's almost certainly similar. His only mistake was being excited and gleeful about it, and that's a mistake any young person can make, due to immaturity or a lack of perspective or awareness.
By birth, education, and expectation, this guy's purpose in life is to embody his nation's attitudes and aspirations. Even more so if he want to wear the uniform as Prince. He is not permitted any immaturity or lack of perspective.

What a royal twit.
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Re: Win, Lose, or Draw in Afghanistan?

Post by GreenGoo » Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:00 pm

Holman wrote:
GreenGoo wrote: In any case, he wouldn't be the first young soldier to say something stupid like that (killing people is just like video games). The truth is, it's almost certainly similar. His only mistake was being excited and gleeful about it, and that's a mistake any young person can make, due to immaturity or a lack of perspective or awareness.
By birth, education, and expectation, this guy's purpose in life is to embody his nation's attitudes and aspirations. Even more so if he want to wear the uniform as Prince. He is not permitted any immaturity or lack of perspective.

What a royal twit.
Don't be ridiculous. Whether you think it's ok or not, he's still a human being. I'm not condoning his behaviour, I'm saying it's not a travesty or completely unexpected for anyone, especially someone his age, to say something stupid in a live interview.

I'd like to know just how much live combat experience he has in that seat, because until you are shooting at actual people, it is exactly like a video game. He's 28. He probably should know better. But he's also the member of the royal family with the least responsibility/pressure.
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Re: Win, Lose, or Draw in Afghanistan?

Post by GreenGoo » Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:02 pm

LordMortis wrote:Screw youth. (unless your maturity level is truly low enough that you don't value human life, which I am sure is also possible) How else do you rationalize gunning down people and being shot at from a helicopter? The Taliban say it's because so many become "mentally unstable", I'd think it's as often as not, a coping mechanism to keep you sane when you've been socialized to value human life.
It could be a coping mechanism. I'm not sure it *has* to be rationalized, necessarily. I'm sure there are plenty of people who are completely aware and, maybe comfortable is not the right word, but "ok" with the fact that they shoot people as part of their job. I don't think that automatically makes them psychotic/sociopathic/insane.

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Re: Win, Lose, or Draw in Afghanistan?

Post by LawBeefaroni » Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:11 pm

GreenGoo wrote:
Holman wrote:
GreenGoo wrote: In any case, he wouldn't be the first young soldier to say something stupid like that (killing people is just like video games). The truth is, it's almost certainly similar. His only mistake was being excited and gleeful about it, and that's a mistake any young person can make, due to immaturity or a lack of perspective or awareness.
By birth, education, and expectation, this guy's purpose in life is to embody his nation's attitudes and aspirations. Even more so if he want to wear the uniform as Prince. He is not permitted any immaturity or lack of perspective.

What a royal twit.
Don't be ridiculous. Whether you think it's ok or not, he's still a human being. I'm not condoning his behaviour, I'm saying it's not a travesty or completely unexpected for anyone, especially someone his age, to say something stupid in a live interview.
He's an officer in the British Army. He's not allow to say stupid things. Any other soldier would probably have lost their 1337 gunner's seat (or worse) for saying what he did to a reporter. Being a Prince, the press had a gag-order until after he left theater. He's not a normal human being. By virtue of birth he has rights and responsibilities none of us do. He can't just take the good stuff and ignore the difficult stuff.

As a representative of the British Army and as member of the most visible and well-known Royal family in the world, equating killing people with playing a video is a horrible error in judgement (in a long line of horrible errors in judgement in this guy's life).

As it relates to Afghanistan, it severely hurts coalition forces in the PR war.
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Re: Win, Lose, or Draw in Afghanistan?

Post by El Guapo » Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:18 pm

"Severely"? I'm not going to pretend to be an expert on Afghan public opinion, but I'd wager in terms of PR that one drone strike killing civilians is worth about 10+ Stupid Prince Harry Remarks. To say nothing of the corrupt Afghan government, friendly warlord war crimes...

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Re: Win, Lose, or Draw in Afghanistan?

Post by Holman » Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:25 pm

GreenGoo wrote: Don't be ridiculous. Whether you think it's ok or not, he's still a human being. I'm not condoning his behaviour, I'm saying it's not a travesty or completely unexpected for anyone, especially someone his age, to say something stupid in a live interview.
Someone his age? He's 28, and he has presumably been groomed not to embarrass his family and his nation in live interviews since he could first talk.
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Re: Win, Lose, or Draw in Afghanistan?

Post by GreenGoo » Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:25 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote:
GreenGoo wrote:
Holman wrote:
GreenGoo wrote: In any case, he wouldn't be the first young soldier to say something stupid like that (killing people is just like video games). The truth is, it's almost certainly similar. His only mistake was being excited and gleeful about it, and that's a mistake any young person can make, due to immaturity or a lack of perspective or awareness.
By birth, education, and expectation, this guy's purpose in life is to embody his nation's attitudes and aspirations. Even more so if he want to wear the uniform as Prince. He is not permitted any immaturity or lack of perspective.

What a royal twit.
Don't be ridiculous. Whether you think it's ok or not, he's still a human being. I'm not condoning his behaviour, I'm saying it's not a travesty or completely unexpected for anyone, especially someone his age, to say something stupid in a live interview.
He's an officer in the British Army. He's not allow to say stupid things. Any other soldier would probably have lost their 1337 gunner's seat (or worse) for saying what he did to a reporter. Being a Prince, the press had a gag-order until after he left theater. He's not a normal human being. By virtue of birth he has rights and responsibilities none of us do. He can't just take the good stuff and ignore the difficult stuff.

As a representative of the British Army and as member of the most visible and well-known Royal family in the world, equating killing people with playing a video is a horrible error in judgement (in a long line of horrible errors in judgement in this guy's life).

As it relates to Afghanistan, it severely hurts coalition forces in the PR war.
Lol.

Whatevah. He's the antichrist. Have at it.

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Re: Win, Lose, or Draw in Afghanistan?

Post by LawBeefaroni » Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:29 pm

El Guapo wrote:"Severely"? I'm not going to pretend to be an expert on Afghan public opinion, but I'd wager in terms of PR that one drone strike killing civilians is worth about 10+ Stupid Prince Harry Remarks. To say nothing of the corrupt Afghan government, friendly warlord war crimes...
The Taliban is promoting the heck out of this. He basically gave them top notch bulletin board fodder for the next month at least.

And I never said it does greater PR damage than hellfiring civilians. I said it severely hurts coalition PR.
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Re: Win, Lose, or Draw in Afghanistan?

Post by GreenGoo » Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:30 pm

If this is the best the Taliban can come up with to promote their agenda, the war on terror is doing way better than I expected.

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Re: Win, Lose, or Draw in Afghanistan?

Post by El Guapo » Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:36 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote:
El Guapo wrote:"Severely"? I'm not going to pretend to be an expert on Afghan public opinion, but I'd wager in terms of PR that one drone strike killing civilians is worth about 10+ Stupid Prince Harry Remarks. To say nothing of the corrupt Afghan government, friendly warlord war crimes...
The Taliban is promoting the heck out of this. He basically gave them top notch bulletin board fodder for the next month at least.

And I never said it does greater PR damage than hellfiring civilians. I said it severely hurts coalition PR.
My point is that there are things happening every day in Afghanistan that I'd wager have way more negative PR effects, and that as such this is probably going to be a drop in the bucket long term.

I do enjoy the phrase "bulletin board fodder" applied to the Taliban. Now I'm picturing Mullah Omar in a locker room shouting "THIS IS OUR HOUSE!!!! THIS IS WHAT WE DO!!!!"

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Re: Win, Lose, or Draw in Afghanistan?

Post by LawBeefaroni » Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:39 pm

GreenGoo wrote:
Lol.

Whatevah. He's the antichrist. Have at it.
An informative response. Sorry to slur your Prince. I have no doubt you'll happy when he's given his honorary titles with the Canadian armed forces.
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Re: Win, Lose, or Draw in Afghanistan?

Post by GreenGoo » Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:45 pm

Ok, Lawbeef, I can't believe you're taking this so seriously. Canadian officers say stupid shit all the time. Americans seem to have more than their fair share of stupid soldiers saying stupid shit on youtube.

I couldn't care less if he's a representative of our monarchy, nor do I care that he'll get a honorary rank in our armed forces. If I don't care, why do you?

You guys are being ridiculous. Really.

British officer says shooting people like video games, film at 11. Member of royal family says something that embarrasses the family. Coverage will continue all week. British officer and member of the royal family says something stupid that reflects poorly on himself, his rank, his military organization and his family. Riots ensue.

That you think this somehow empowers the Taliban and causes great harm for "the cause" is bizarre, laughable and misguided.

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Re: Win, Lose, or Draw in Afghanistan?

Post by stessier » Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:48 pm

GreenGoo wrote:British officer says shooting people like video games, film at 11.
That's not actually what he said. He said he was happy to get the front seat because he plays video games and can be useful with his thumbs. I'm not sure why that's such a big deal.
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Re: Win, Lose, or Draw in Afghanistan?

Post by LawBeefaroni » Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:55 pm

El Guapo wrote: My point is that there are things happening every day in Afghanistan that I'd wager have way more negative PR effects, and that as such this is probably going to be a drop in the bucket long term.
True, but the very idea that this is a mere drop in the bucket says a lot about the state of our PR over there. And when it's that bad, it's not helpful to pile on with dumb Prince Harryisms. It's the combined weight of negative perceptions that drives recruiting or gets people to dress in Afghani police uniforms and gun down "fellow" soldiers. Can we stop it completely? Probably not, but it should never just be acceptable to fuel to the fire.
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