will marijuana ever be legal???

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will marijuana ever be legal???

Yes
84
76%
No
13
12%
Not sure
13
12%
 
Total votes: 110

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tgb
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Re: will marijuana ever be legal???

Post by tgb »

Pretty much.
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Re: will marijuana ever be legal???

Post by Kraken »

Legalization is slightly ahead in MA with most votes still to be counted.
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Re: will marijuana ever be legal???

Post by em2nought »

http://www.wftv.com/news/local/floridas ... /465310275

Cool, I can probably get some for Glaucoma as soon as I get it diagnosed. :idea:
Technically, he shouldn't be here.
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tgb
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Re: will marijuana ever be legal???

Post by tgb »

Failed here, but that was expected.
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Re: will marijuana ever be legal???

Post by stessier »

So it passed in MA, right? I looked over that bill - 10 oz and up to 6 plants!? I'm impressed. Surprised they didn't go for "allowing exports to neighboring states." :lol: My sister is likely very happy about that today. Probably suicidal about the President though. Maybe one can help the other...
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Re: will marijuana ever be legal???

Post by dbt1949 »

I heard Arkansas passed legalizing Medical marijuana.
They still don't want casinos tho.
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Re: will marijuana ever be legal???

Post by Kraken »

stessier wrote:So it passed in MA, right? I looked over that bill - 10 oz and up to 6 plants!? I'm impressed. Surprised they didn't go for "allowing exports to neighboring states." :lol: My sister is likely very happy about that today. Probably suicidal about the President though. Maybe one can help the other...
Thing is, the legislature has to write the law, they have to do it in record time, and they're overwhelmingly on record as having opposed it. The final law will resemble the ballot question only in broad outline. For example, the provision that we can grow up to 12 plants per household is already under fire as an end-run around corporatization, and there is a lot of "concern" that the tax rate is too low.

Weed becomes legal on Dec. 15; for the first time in 45 years, I won't be a criminal anymore. However, getting from there to retail sales is going to be a slog. We dragged our feet on medical dispensaries for years after they were legalized.
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Re: will marijuana ever be legal???

Post by stessier »

The tax rate IS too low. 3.45%, right? Cigarettes and alcohol are taxed way more than that, aren't they? I'm all for legalization - but at least tax the heck out of it.
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Re: will marijuana ever be legal???

Post by Jeff V »

Kraken wrote:
Weed becomes legal on Dec. 15; for the first time in 45 years, I won't be a criminal anymore. However, getting from there to retail sales is going to be a slog. We dragged our feet on medical dispensaries for years after they were legalized.
If you miss the thrill, you can still jack some stoner upside the head and steal his weed.

The medical dispensaries would be more heavily regulated, so the delays are not unexpected. Head shops will get business going overnight.
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Re: will marijuana ever be legal???

Post by Kraken »

stessier wrote:The tax rate IS too low. 3.45%, right? Cigarettes and alcohol are taxed way more than that, aren't they? I'm all for legalization - but at least tax the heck out of it.
3.75% + 6.25% sales tax + (optional) 2% local tax = 10-12%. The objective is to price it below black-market pot. That said, there's probably room to add a few more percentage points, depending on what kind of base prices we're taxing.
Jeff V wrote:
Kraken wrote:
The medical dispensaries would be more heavily regulated, so the delays are not unexpected. Head shops will get business going overnight.
Much of the foot-dragging on medical marijuana involved keeping it out of the hands of recreational users. Kinda ironic.
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Re: will marijuana ever be legal???

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California boards the magic bus.
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Re: will marijuana ever be legal???

Post by Biyobi »

Jaymann wrote:California boards the magic bus.
It's decriminalized now but the state has until January 1, 2018 to actually start granting business licenses to sell. We're going with a 15% tax (on top of the sales tax I assume), which puts us at around 24%.
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Re: will marijuana ever be legal???

Post by Kraken »

And here's our government proposing to change the law the day after it passed:
Just a day after voters legalized marijuana for recreational use, Massachusetts’ top regulator called on the Legislature to extend the deadline for opening retail shops beyond the January 2018 target date so she has time to build an effective oversight force.

Treasurer Deborah B. Goldberg also said Wednesday lawmakers should hike the 3.75 percent tax on marijuana sales included in the new law so there will be enough money to police the industry and have some cash left over. And Goldberg wants legislators to ax a provision allowing people to grow up to 12 marijuana plants per household, which she believes could gut the retail market and be detrimental to public health and safety.
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Re: will marijuana ever be legal???

Post by LordMortis »

Kraken wrote:And Goldberg wants legislators to ax a provision allowing people to grow up to 12 marijuana plants per household, which she believes could gut the retail market and be detrimental to public health and safety.
It was all reasonable to me until ... the hell?
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Re: will marijuana ever be legal???

Post by stessier »

I have no idea - how much could 12 plants supply? How much does a person use a day if they still want to function (ie - go to work the next day)? I would imagine 12 plants wouldn't be enough to destroy the retail market, but really have no idea.
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Re: will marijuana ever be legal???

Post by LordMortis »

stessier wrote:I have no idea - how much could 12 plants supply? How much does a person use a day if they still want to function (ie - go to work the next day)? I would imagine 12 plants wouldn't be enough to destroy the retail market, but really have no idea.
As far as I know 12 plants is a lot, I believe they allow 6 per medical card here in Michigan (unless it's changed. It maybe 10?) and the grow farms make more than enough for the people with cards, but the what gets my goat is:

1) Their concern is over the retail market at the expense of the home grower.
2) Their concern for public health and safety of the home grower over the retailer. As we know the TLC have always had the health and safety of its customers as the top priority.
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Re: will marijuana ever be legal???

Post by Smoove_B »

12 plants does seem a bit excessive. I mean, if I can brew my own beer or wine and grow my own tobacco, I'm pretty sure I should also be able to grow my own marijuana in a state where doing so would be legal. There are limits on the other items so coming up with a reasonable restriction on how many plants you can grow doesn't seem unrealistic.
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Re: will marijuana ever be legal???

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Kraken wrote:And here's our government proposing to change the law the day after it passed:
Just a day after voters legalized marijuana for recreational use, Massachusetts’ top regulator called on the Legislature to extend the deadline for opening retail shops beyond the January 2018 target date so she has time to build an effective oversight force.

Treasurer Deborah B. Goldberg also said Wednesday lawmakers should hike the 3.75 percent tax on marijuana sales included in the new law so there will be enough money to police the industry and have some cash left over. And Goldberg wants legislators to ax a provision allowing people to grow up to 12 marijuana plants per household, which she believes could gut the retail market and be detrimental to public health and safety.
I voted yes for legal wacky tabbacky use in Mass but I was a bit hesitant because of the rather short timeline from legalization to retail sales. Also, what the heck regarding the low tax even with the piggy back tax provision on marijuana. Enforcement costs money and yeah I don't mind helping to balance the budget on the backs of stoned out users either. One of the rationalizations on the low tax rate is that it will undercut black market sales. I think that if you're caught buying from drug dealers you just get to pay a fine. A rather large $5,000 fine or some such thing. There will be legal avenues for buying pot. Use them.
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Re: will marijuana ever be legal???

Post by LordMortis »

Smoove_B wrote:12 plants does seem a bit excessive. I mean, if I can brew my own beer or wine and grow my own tobacco, I'm pretty sure I should also be able to grow my own marijuana in a state where doing so would be legal. There are limits on the other items so coming up with a reasonable restriction on how many plants you can grow doesn't seem unrealistic.
12 plants doesn't seem too excessive to me but that's still not where I pause. I pause, not because they don't want to turn household growers into dealers but because they want to protect retailers.

At the same time, I do support retail sales precisely so you can extreme tax it to subsidize better law enforcement and education. It's just... odd to me the way she put it, like she is lobbying for the TLC.
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Re: will marijuana ever be legal???

Post by Z-Corn »

Twelve plants is not excessive. Fifty plants is not excessive. There is no proper definition being used here of "excessive". Limits, if they must be enforced, should be on the amount of harvested buds in ones possession. This should be measured by weight, not by the number of plants required to produce that weight.

Not all cannabis plants produce buds. Only female plants produce buds. Male plants are necessary to preserve breeding stock and variety. Basic botany...
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Re: will marijuana ever be legal???

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Z-Corn wrote:Twelve plants is not excessive. Fifty plants is not excessive. There is no proper definition being used here of "excessive". Limits, if they must be enforced, should be on the amount of harvested buds in ones possession. This should be measured by weight, not by the number of plants required to produce that weight.

Not all cannabis plants produce buds. Only female plants produce buds. Male plants are necessary to preserve breeding stock and variety. Basic botany...
Depends on how they're raised. If one follows commercial practices of hydroponics, high-intensity lights, cloning cuttings, ventilation, etc., then a dozen plants are more than enough to keep even a heavy smoker generously supplied. OTOH, if one just plops some seeds into pots on a windowsill then 12 plants are not very much at all.
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Re: will marijuana ever be legal???

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Kraken wrote:
Z-Corn wrote:Twelve plants is not excessive. Fifty plants is not excessive. There is no proper definition being used here of "excessive". Limits, if they must be enforced, should be on the amount of harvested buds in ones possession. This should be measured by weight, not by the number of plants required to produce that weight.

Not all cannabis plants produce buds. Only female plants produce buds. Male plants are necessary to preserve breeding stock and variety. Basic botany...
Depends on how they're raised. If one follows commercial practices of hydroponics, high-intensity lights, cloning cuttings, ventilation, etc., then a dozen plants are more than enough to keep even a heavy smoker generously supplied. OTOH, if one just plops some seeds into pots on a windowsill then 12 plants are not very much at all.

Sure, I agree with you there but what I was trying to point out is that to place an arbitrary plant count on a Dioecious plant is not proper regulation.

What if I want to keep 10 males and 4 females at a time for breeding purposes but I only flower one plant at a time? Those male plants don't have enough psychoactive compounds to hurt any children. What about keeping mother plants to propagate the strain, as you mentioned with clones? If they never flower should they be held against the allowed plant count?

I would argue that, just like children, one should be allowed to house as many plants as one can properly feed and keep healthy as long as one is not over the allowed weight limit. Are you suggesting that we should next put limits on the number of children a couple can raise? Or are you suggesting that a family of skinny children is better than a family of fat children? Because, if so sir, I have some people at my church that would have strong words with you!
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Re: will marijuana ever be legal???

Post by Kraken »

Z-Corn wrote:
Kraken wrote:
Z-Corn wrote:Twelve plants is not excessive. Fifty plants is not excessive. There is no proper definition being used here of "excessive". Limits, if they must be enforced, should be on the amount of harvested buds in ones possession. This should be measured by weight, not by the number of plants required to produce that weight.

Not all cannabis plants produce buds. Only female plants produce buds. Male plants are necessary to preserve breeding stock and variety. Basic botany...
Depends on how they're raised. If one follows commercial practices of hydroponics, high-intensity lights, cloning cuttings, ventilation, etc., then a dozen plants are more than enough to keep even a heavy smoker generously supplied. OTOH, if one just plops some seeds into pots on a windowsill then 12 plants are not very much at all.

Sure, I agree with you there but what I was trying to point out is that to place an arbitrary plant count on a Dioecious plant is not proper regulation.

What if I want to keep 10 males and 4 females at a time for breeding purposes but I only flower one plant at a time? Those male plants don't have enough psychoactive compounds to hurt any children. What about keeping mother plants to propagate the strain, as you mentioned with clones? If they never flower should they be held against the allowed plant count?

I would argue that, just like children, one should be allowed to house as many plants as one can properly feed and keep healthy as long as one is not over the allowed weight limit. Are you suggesting that we should next put limits on the number of children a couple can raise? Or are you suggesting that a family of skinny children is better than a family of fat children? Because, if so sir, I have some people at my church that would have strong words with you!
The hypothetical Weed Squad isn't going to look at the finer points of a grower's setup. Counting plants is easy for everyone to understand. But I'm a little out of my depth understanding the ins and outs of cultivation.

As LM divined, the purpose of having a small limit is to prevent homegrowers from sidestepping commercial weed and avoiding taxes. The state considers the 12-plant limit (actually six plants per adult with a 12-plant household max) too generous because it would free consumers from Big Reefer, although they'll couch that as breaking up black-market growers.

I would be fine with prohibiting children entirely, but I suspect that I will retire to a 55+ community instead.
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Re: will marijuana ever be legal???

Post by Kraken »

Thursday is the big day.
Secretary of State William F. Galvin warned last week that the measure legalizing marijuana might have to be delayed, but now says that won’t be necessary.

Galvin’s office said Friday he will submit official results of the voter-passed legalization measure to the Governor’s Council Wednesday for certification. Barring any unforeseen snafu — or dramatic intervention by the Legislature to undo the will of the voters — possessing, using, and growing marijuana at home will become legal on Thursday.

...

Still, marijuana remains illegal under federal law. And some fear the administration of Donald Trump will crack down on the nascent industry after he takes office on Jan. 20.

As one BostonGlobe.com commenter wrote, “Legal weed 12/15/2016 — 1/20/2017. RIP.”
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Re: will marijuana ever be legal???

Post by Kraken »

Less than 30 minutes to remain a criminal. Time to smoke one last illicit bowl. :obscene-smokingweed:
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Re: will marijuana ever be legal???

Post by Alefroth »

You guys didn't waste any time. Do you have a legal way to purchase it? It was a year and a half for WA between legalizing it, and the first retail store opening. Technically we could posses it, but couldn't buy or grow it.
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Re: will marijuana ever be legal???

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Alefroth wrote:You guys didn't waste any time. Do you have a legal way to purchase it? It was a year and a half for WA between legalizing it, and the first retail store opening. Technically we could posses it, but couldn't buy or grow it.
Nope. For now you still have to know a guy who knows a guy or grow your own, and you can't buy seeds or cuttings (but they can be gifted). Whatever shall we do? Half a million gardens were just planted. :lol:

The homegrow provision is going to be critical when Trump's DOJ cracks down on retail sales.
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Re: will marijuana ever be legal???

Post by Jeff V »

Couldn't you call out the state militia to preserve states rights? That's why all those second amendment weenies have guns, right?
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Re: will marijuana ever be legal???

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Jeff V wrote:Couldn't you call out the state militia to preserve states rights? That's why all those second amendment weenies have guns, right?
Our state officials were nearly unanimous in opposing legalization, so don't expect any help from them. At least not until those sweet sweet tax dollars start rolling in.
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Re: will marijuana ever be legal???

Post by LordMortis »

Saw this on PBS newshour last night. How sad.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/safe-sup ... marijuana/

I await the day I can use marijuana and then dabbing goes and comes along. Kids and by kids I mean people in the early 20s and not just these days.
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Re: will marijuana ever be legal???

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Kraken wrote:
Jeff V wrote:Couldn't you call out the state militia to preserve states rights? That's why all those second amendment weenies have guns, right?
Our state officials were nearly unanimous in opposing legalization, so don't expect any help from them. At least not until those sweet sweet tax dollars start rolling in.
Foot dragging commencing.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2016/ ... story.html
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Re: will marijuana ever be legal???

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Alefroth wrote:
Kraken wrote:
Jeff V wrote:Couldn't you call out the state militia to preserve states rights? That's why all those second amendment weenies have guns, right?
Our state officials were nearly unanimous in opposing legalization, so don't expect any help from them. At least not until those sweet sweet tax dollars start rolling in.
Foot dragging commencing.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2016/ ... story.html
The longer they delay and the more restrictive their regulations on shops become, the more time the black market has to adapt to its coming competition. That will be good for consumers, but it isn't what the law intended. At the very least the homegrow sector is going to get well established.
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Maine governor signs measure allowing recreational marijuana use
Maine Governor Paul LePage on Tuesday said he had signed a measure legalizing the recreational usage of marijuana in his state after voters approved the move in a November ballot initiative.

With the signature, the country's northeastern-most state becomes the ninth to legalize recreational use of the drug.

LePage, a Republican who had opposed the idea, expressed reservations about how legalization would be implemented in a regular weekly interview with WMOV radio, in which he confirmed signing the legalization proclamation.

"There is nothing I can do until the legislature gives me money to set up the infrastructure," LePage said.

The law will allow adults aged 21 and older to use the drug in private, but not public places, and to possess up to 2.5 ounces (70.9 grams) of marijuana.
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Post by Kraken »

Newscast on a college radio station this morning told me that a fellow on craigslist has found a loophole in our legalization law. Selling weed is illegal until shops open in 18 months, but gifting it is allowed. So he is selling plastic baggies for $325, with a free ounce of marijuana thrown in.

Somehow I think lawn forcement is going to look askance at this (assuming the report is even true). I got a good chuckle out of it anyway.
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Kraken wrote:Newscast on a college radio station this morning told me that a fellow on craigslist has found a loophole in our legalization law. Selling weed is illegal until shops open in 18 months, but gifting it is allowed. So he is selling plastic baggies for $325, with a free ounce of marijuana thrown in.

Somehow I think lawn forcement is going to look askance at this (assuming the report is even true). I got a good chuckle out of it anyway.
The ad was real, but he's attempting to exploit an apparently nonexistent loophole.
Enlarge Image
“The ads are illegal,” Northwestern District Attorney David Sullivan said. “It’s illegal to sell marijuana in Massachusetts even with the new ballot initiative.”

The new law does allow legal gifts of up to an ounce, but the gift cannot be advertised to the public.

Section 7. Personal use of marijuana […] (4) giving away or otherwise transferring without remuneration up to 1 ounce of marijuana…to a person 21 years of age or older, as long as the transfer is not advertised or promoted to the public.” — text of ballot question

And Sullivan said pretending to sell a bag is a complete end run around the law.

“To say an empty baggie costs $350 is ridiculous,” he said. “I think it’s a clear fraud on its face.”

Sullivan said he’ll ask police to investigate.

We texted the phone number listed on the Craigslist ad, asking for comment.

The response, from someone who said he was going by the name Corey Hampton, said his friend cards customers to make sure they’re at least 21. And as for the DA’s statement about the ads?

“I just think it’s foolish to waste any more of the taxpayers money on a harmless plant that helps people,” the text read.
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Re: will marijuana ever be legal???

Post by Kraken »

If they can't nail him on that, I imagine they'll take a keen interest in where he's getting his inventory.
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Marijuana home delivery starts in Oregon
Oregon is rolling out another first in the recreational marijuana industry: Customers may now order pot from licensed retailers and have it delivered to their homes.

The Oregon Liquor Control Commission had granted delivery permits to 117 retailers across Oregon, including 13 in Portland, last year but postponed their permission until last month.

“We needed to make an adaptation to the cannabis tracking system to provide a document that would actually allow for the delivery of recreational marijuana to homes,” said OLCC spokesman Mark Pettinger.
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Re: will marijuana ever be legal???

Post by Isgrimnur »

All the smart kids are doing it:
British teens with the highest test scores are less likely to smoke cigarettes yet more likely to drink alcohol and smoke pot compared with teens with lower scores, according to a study published Wednesday in the British Medical Journal Open.

Although some people believe smart students simply have a tendency to experiment, James Williams and Gareth Hagger-Johnson, co-authors of the new study, say these patterns of substance use may continue into adulthood.
...
Using questionnaires, they regularly tracked each student's use of tobacco, alcohol and cannabis from age 13 or 14 until age 19 or 20. Williams and Hagger-Johnson used national test scores taken at age 11 to rank students academically.
...
During their early teens, high-scoring pupils were less likely to smoke cigarettes and more likely to drink alcohol than their peers with lower test scores. At this time, they were slightly more likely to say they used cannabis.

During their late teens, pupils with the highest scores were more than twice as likely to drink alcohol regularly compared with others, yet they also showed themselves to have less of a tendency to binge-drink. During this same period in their lives, the academically gifted students proved nearly twice as likely to use cannabis persistently and 50% more likely to use it occasionally compared with their peers with lower test scores.
...
Meanwhile, average students were 25% more likely to use cannabis on occasion and 53% more likely to use it persistently in their early teens than pupils they outperformed on tests. Average-ability students also used weed more than lower scoring peers.
Not studied: impacts of band membership, marching or otherwise.
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Post by Enough »

I see. State's rights new federalism is good when it comes to transgender rights but pot? That's totally federal supremacy dude!
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