Senate votes to repeal don't ask don't tell

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tripcrow
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Senate votes to repeal don't ask don't tell

Post by tripcrow »

Well let's see. 30% of female veterans admit to being sexually assaulted while in the service. The Pentagon figures assaults are up and over 90% of all assaults go unreported. Mostly for fear of retaliation. There are no numbers on the girls that compromise themselves because of the situation they were in. This ain't no dorm room.

So before they can get this straightened out they'll allow gays not only in, but integrated in with straight young boys. So you have to figure at least half of all future veterans will be sexually assaulted while serving. Yep that's the place we'll all be proud to send our kids off to.

You ideological Democrats are just as close minded and dangerous as the Republicans.
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Re: Senate votes to repeal don't ask don't tell

Post by TiLT »

tripcrow wrote:So before they can get this straightened out they'll allow gays not only in, but integrated in with straight young boys. So you have to figure at least half of all future veterans will be sexually assaulted while serving.
I don't follow this logic. Explain.
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Re: Senate votes to repeal don't ask don't tell

Post by tjg_marantz »

I like how you paint the straight people as boys (even the women?)... Makes them seem more defenseless and pure? Or are they allowing underage people in now?
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Re: Senate votes to repeal don't ask don't tell

Post by SpaceLord »

What The? I don't even... :roll:

First of all, there are lots of homosexual servicemen and women already. Many, many other countries have fully integrated armed forces. Sexual assault is a problem. It's just not going to get worse with DADT being repealed.
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Re: Senate votes to repeal don't ask don't tell

Post by RuperT »

tripcrow wrote: Yep that's the place we'll all be proud to send our kids off to.
Fuckin' A! I'd be very proud to send my son to find IEDs the easy way in a decade long idealogical war against guerillas, but I just couldn't bear it if some fag tried to kiss him...
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Re: Senate votes to repeal don't ask don't tell

Post by Holman »

tripcrow wrote:Well let's see. 30% of female veterans admit to being sexually assaulted while in the service. The Pentagon figures assaults are up and over 90% of all assaults go unreported. Mostly for fear of retaliation. There are no numbers on the girls that compromise themselves because of the situation they were in. This ain't no dorm room.

So before they can get this straightened out they'll allow gays not only in, but integrated in with straight young boys. So you have to figure at least half of all future veterans will be sexually assaulted while serving. Yep that's the place we'll all be proud to send our kids off to.

You ideological Democrats are just as close minded and dangerous as the Republicans.
Gay panic is always so fascinating to watch.

Even with DADT repealed, everyone knows that the cultural climate of the military will remain homophobic for a long time. The repeal of DADT is not going to lead to an influx of Out & Proud soldiers. It just means that gay soldiers can join up and stay in without worrying about having their careers trashed if their are identified.

The point you're trying to make is nonsensical. How does allowing gays to serve without fear of expulsion threaten to raise the levels of sexual assault?
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Re: Senate votes to repeal don't ask don't tell

Post by Mookee »

And it's official. Woooo!
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Re: Senate votes to repeal don't ask don't tell

Post by tripcrow »

If 30% of female vets admit to being assaulted the number assaulted must be higher than that. No?
If gay men are as likely to assault men as gay women and straight men are to assault women, then one can assume that 30% of male vets will be assaulted.
Also consider, and you would if it was your kid, a servicemen that agrees to having sex because they are in a situation where fear or well-being are the primary reasons they agree to compromising themselves to sexual advances as a victim of an assault.
So yes I'm guessing at 50%. It depends on the number of gays that join. But what percentage would you feel safe at sending your kid off? 33%? 20%? How about 10%? How does a 1 in 10 chance that some guy will cornhole your son sound? Be freakin reasonable.

I used the term boys because I joined at 17 years 2 weeks old and when I look back I was an innocent boy. And because obviously, if you were open minded on the subject, you'd realize the younger are the most likely to be abused?
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Re: Senate votes to repeal don't ask don't tell

Post by Mr. Fed »

When I hear the angry reactions to each and every step towards treating gays (and women, and non-Christians, and people of different damn skin colors) as full and equal human beings, I am thankful for the First Amendment.

And the Second.
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Re: Senate votes to repeal don't ask don't tell

Post by Pyperkub »

Mr. Fed wrote:When I hear the angry reactions to each and every step towards treating gays (and women, and non-Christians, and people of different damn skin colors) as full and equal human beings, I am thankful for the First Amendment.

And the Second.
Wouldn't the Fourth be more appropriate in this instance? :D
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Re: Senate votes to repeal don't ask don't tell

Post by tripcrow »

You know it ain't enough what these people have to go through and try and live with the rest of their lives. Now you gotta go dump this shit on them too. And then try and paint it as red, white, and blue.
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Re: Senate votes to repeal don't ask don't tell

Post by Mr. Fed »

Pyperkub wrote:
Mr. Fed wrote:When I hear the angry reactions to each and every step towards treating gays (and women, and non-Christians, and people of different damn skin colors) as full and equal human beings, I am thankful for the First Amendment.

And the Second.
Wouldn't the Fourth be more appropriate in this instance? :D
No.

Because I expect this to inspire a serious upswing in the rhetoric calling for violent revolution in order to "restore" "American values."

The Second Amendment helps me be prepared for defending against such people.
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Re: Senate votes to repeal don't ask don't tell

Post by noxiousdog »

tripcrow wrote:If 30% of female vets admit to being assaulted the number assaulted must be higher than that. No?
If gay men are as likely to assault men as gay women and straight men are to assault women, then one can assume that 30% of male vets will be assaulted.
Also consider, and you would if it was your kid, a servicemen that agrees to having sex because they are in a situation where fear or well-being are the primary reasons they agree to compromising themselves to sexual advances as a victim of an assault.
So yes I'm guessing at 50%. It depends on the number of gays that join. But what percentage would you feel safe at sending your kid off? 33%? 20%? How about 10%? How does a 1 in 10 chance that some guy will cornhole your son sound? Be freakin reasonable.

I used the term boys because I joined at 17 years 2 weeks old and when I look back I was an innocent boy. And because obviously, if you were open minded on the subject, you'd realize the younger are the most likely to be abused?
First off, do you have a cite that 30% of women are assaulted while in the service?

Second, if it's accurate, and it it's so dangerous, shouldn't we prevent all straight men from serving so those 30% don't get assaulted?
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Re: Senate votes to repeal don't ask don't tell

Post by Holman »

tripcrow wrote:If 30% of female vets admit to being assaulted the number assaulted must be higher than that. No?
If gay men are as likely to assault men as gay women and straight men are to assault women, then one can assume that 30% of male vets will be assaulted.
Also consider, and you would if it was your kid, a servicemen that agrees to having sex because they are in a situation where fear or well-being are the primary reasons they agree to compromising themselves to sexual advances as a victim of an assault.
So yes I'm guessing at 50%. It depends on the number of gays that join. But what percentage would you feel safe at sending your kid off? 33%? 20%? How about 10%? How does a 1 in 10 chance that some guy will cornhole your son sound? Be freakin reasonable.
By your logic, any reasonable parent should absolutely forbid his or her daughter from joining the U.S. military. Is that the case?

The pattern of sexual assault in the military is nearly all hetero males assaulting females. The reason most of it goes overlooked or unreported is that the female victim usually has to report it to another male, who has a lot invested in not rocking the boat of good-old-boy military culture.

Ask yourself if that good-old-boy military culture is likely to wrap its loving arms around homosexuals who assault other soldiers.

Patterns of assault also have a lot to do with the gender imbalance in the military itself. It's still a boys' club. Some men feel that they can treat female soldiers roughly because the females don't belong or because it's all part of being the service. Do you think many gay soldiers will feel that same empowerment when they make up, say, 5% of the service and they are still treated (as they will be) as outsiders?

I'm sure there will be some case of male-on-male sexual assault or female-on-female sexual assault in the military some time in the next ten years. I'm equally sure that the conservative media will leap on it and treat as if it is somehow rampant. (And I'm absolutely sure that the same people will ignore the patterns of heterosexual assault that you have already pointed out *are* rampant.)

If I had to guess, I'd say that a military that has to adapt itself to the existence of gays will be *less* prone to treat sexual assault as no big deal.
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Re: Senate votes to repeal don't ask don't tell

Post by Zarathud »

The statistics are different for male victims of sexual assault and female victims of sexual assualt. In general, 1 in 6 women and 1 in 33 men will be a victim of sexual assault in their lifetime.

It's not unreasonable to expect those willing to volunteer for the military would be generally more prone or willing to engage to violence. From there, it's not too much to anticipate an increased risk potential for sexual assualt. Using the prior female vet statistic, the risk appears to double from 16% to 30%. If the same applies, the increased risk for men would run from 3% to 6%. Those statistics are hardly a reason for gay panic.

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Re: Senate votes to repeal don't ask don't tell

Post by Blackhawk »

Holman wrote:The repeal of DADT is not going to lead to an influx of Out & Proud soldiers.
Of course not.
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Re: Senate votes to repeal don't ask don't tell

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Zekester, is that you?

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Re: Senate votes to repeal don't ask don't tell

Post by tripcrow »

""They will do what is asked of them," McCain said of service members. "But don't think there won't be a great cost."

I only wish there was a way to make all those selfcentered assholes that hold gay inclusion in society more important than our servicemen pay that price 10 times over.
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Re: Senate votes to repeal don't ask don't tell

Post by silverjon »

tripcrow wrote:If gay men are as likely to assault men as gay women and straight men are to assault women, then one can assume that 30% of male vets will be assaulted.
Yeah, but they're not. In the majority of sexual assaults perpetrated against straight men, the assailant is another man who would also identify himself as straight.

(Edit: Incidentally, these types of assaults frequently occur in circumstances where many men are together without women. Like the military. Prisons. Hazing for frats and sports teams....)
wot?

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Re: Senate votes to repeal don't ask don't tell

Post by Enough »

The OP struck me as a tremendous trolling attempt. That said, woot to the repeal! :D
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Re: Senate votes to repeal don't ask don't tell

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The military's leaders conducted an extensive survey into the impact of this change -- a change which every major civilized nation has already undergone, without the dire consequences you state -- and concluded that it would be minimally disruptive. In the end, the value of letting every American willing to put on a uniform and serve, and perhaps die, for his or her country outweighs the hysterical concerns of gay haters like you.

This is a great day for our nation, and will make the pool of talented, qualified military recruits larger, and thus in the end will make our military stronger and the rest of us safer.
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Re: Senate votes to repeal don't ask don't tell

Post by LawBeefaroni »

tripcrow wrote: If gay men are as likely to assault men as gay women and straight men are to assault women, then one can assume that 30% of male vets will be assaulted.
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Re: Senate votes to repeal don't ask don't tell

Post by Combustible Lemur »

Fireball1244 wrote:The military's leaders conducted an extensive survey into the impact of this change -- a change which every major civilized nation has already undergone, without the dire consequences you state -- and concluded that it would be minimally disruptive. In the end, the value of letting every American willing to put on a uniform and serve, and perhaps die, for his or her country outweighs the hysterical concerns of gay haters like you.

This is a great day for our nation, and will make the pool of talented, qualified military recruits larger, and thus in the end will make our military stronger and the rest of us safer.
seriously.

I can't fathom the argument that a body that already assaults thirty percent of women in their ranks (to ND, I've seen studies that put the # higher) needs protecting from a small percentage of gay men who already are looked down upon and isolated from the general culture.

I can't help but picture some queen in a hard hat holding down a construction worker while the rest of the roughnecks run in terror.

WTF.

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Re: Senate votes to repeal don't ask don't tell

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tripcrow wrote:I only wish there was a way to make all those selfcentered assholes that hold gay inclusion in society more important than our servicemen pay that price 10 times over.
What price will the servicemen pay, exactly?
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Re: Senate votes to repeal don't ask don't tell

Post by Blackhawk »

This self centered asshole holds that US servicemen for more than two centuries have died to uphold certain ideals, and that a current hiccup in our society has resulted in us violating those ideals.

This move reaffirms what centuries of our servicemen have paid that price to protect.
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Re: Senate votes to repeal don't ask don't tell

Post by Kraken »

Exodor wrote:
tripcrow wrote:I only wish there was a way to make all those selfcentered assholes that hold gay inclusion in society more important than our servicemen pay that price 10 times over.
What price will the servicemen pay, exactly?
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Re: Senate votes to repeal don't ask don't tell

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tripcrow wrote:Well let's see. 30% of female veterans admit to being sexually assaulted while in the service. The Pentagon figures assaults are up and over 90% of all assaults go unreported. Mostly for fear of retaliation. There are no numbers on the girls that compromise themselves because of the situation they were in. This ain't no dorm room.

So before they can get this straightened out they'll allow gays not only in, but integrated in with straight young boys. So you have to figure at least half of all future veterans will be sexually assaulted while serving. Yep that's the place we'll all be proud to send our kids off to.

You ideological Democrats are just as close minded and dangerous as the Republicans.
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Re: Senate votes to repeal don't ask don't tell

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Ah, be not deceived PLW. The Truing test can only measure an AI as compared to human intelligence. And as we can see here, if indeed they are humans, that isn't necessarily the best.
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Re: Senate votes to repeal don't ask don't tell

Post by Exodor »

tripcrow wrote:Ah, be not deceived PLW. The Truing test can only measure an AI as compared to human intelligence. And as we can see here, if indeed they are humans, that isn't necessarily the best.
obviously
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Re: Senate votes to repeal don't ask don't tell

Post by Gryndyl »

tripcrow wrote:Ah, be not deceived PLW. The Truing test can only measure an AI as compared to human intelligence. And as we can see here, if indeed they are humans, that isn't necessarily the best.
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Re: Senate votes to repeal don't ask don't tell

Post by helot2000 »

What an excellent surprise! Kudos to the 8 Republicans who bucked their party and helped knock this bigotry down.

Ever the gracious loser, here's McCain channeling a bitter old man.
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Re: Senate votes to repeal don't ask don't tell

Post by gbasden »

I'm thrilled they finally managed to get this done. This is long overdue and helps correct a serious injustice that has been perpetrated to a lot of excellent service people that this country sorely needs.

The OP is flat out nuts, btw.
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Re: Senate votes to repeal don't ask don't tell

Post by Lee »

On Monday I have a few a people to talk to who claimed they would retire if this ever happened. Now we have to deal with how we are going to get separate bathrooms and dorms for them all.

I am betting that life doesn't change at all. The debates on Monday are going to be awesome though.
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Re: Senate votes to repeal don't ask don't tell

Post by Holman »

I'm betting the foxhole talk is going to go something like this:

Jim: "Joe, we've served together since 2004, and I just want to get it off my chest. I'm gay."
Joe: "Well, duh."
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Re: Senate votes to repeal don't ask don't tell

Post by CGMark »

I am glad that it was repealed.

There was a lot of work done to get people to become aware of it.

I highly doubt that gay men will just start assaulting people. THOUGH. I would not be surprised to find straight men finding reason to start assaulting gay men. We'll see how it works out.
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Re: Senate votes to repeal don't ask don't tell

Post by helot2000 »

"In the middle of a military conflict is not the time to do it," said Saxby Chambliss, R-Georgia.

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Re: Senate votes to repeal don't ask don't tell

Post by TiLT »

tripcrow wrote:Well let's see. 30% of female veterans admit to being sexually assaulted while in the service. The Pentagon figures assaults are up and over 90% of all assaults go unreported.
Does that mean over 300% of female veterans have been sexually assaulted while in the service? If so, that should be some kind of record.
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Re: Senate votes to repeal don't ask don't tell

Post by Grundbegriff »

As I skim this thread, I can feel my IQ dropping.
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Re: Senate votes to repeal don't ask don't tell

Post by El Guapo »

Lee wrote:On Monday I have a few a people to talk to who claimed they would retire if this ever happened. Now we have to deal with how we are going to get separate bathrooms and dorms for them all.
I thought the Pentagon report concluded that they wouldn't create separate facilities?
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Re: Senate votes to repeal don't ask don't tell

Post by YellowKing »

My brother is in the local theater scene, which has a pretty high percentage of homosexuals. As a result I've been around a lot of gay dudes. I've talked to them at length, I've hung out with them, we've been to family gatherings together - these guys aren't serial rapists waiting for an opportunity to grab your dick. They're interested in other gay dudes. Admittedly I'm talking anecdotal evidence of a small group, but I've never seen the slightest indication that any of these guys would actively pursue a guy they knew was straight. As pointed out somewhere above, it's FAR more likely it's the homosexual that's going to be assaulted in this scenario.

It seriously worries me and confounds me that we continue to discriminate against people who were born biologically wired a different way. I 100% believe that discrimination against homosexuals is exactly the same as saying "black people can't get married" or "Asian people can't serve in the military." There's no difference. We, as a country, have been through enough shit in our history relating to discrimination that we should not be repeating the same mistakes over and over and over again.
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