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The Global Warming Thread

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LordMortis
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Re: The Global Warming Thread

Post by LordMortis »

Isgrimnur wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 3:25 pm
hepcat wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 3:17 pm
I try not to be dismissive of youths attempting to make the world a better place.
I'm not trying to be dismissive, either. Those of use that have houses and jobs usually do not have the time, energy, or risk tolerance to try and change the system.
Which is why we put so much stock in believing the children are our future and they can save us from ourselves. By the time we get in a position to affect change we're generally locked down in the world we know.
LB wrote:there is an idealistic, self-righteous streak in a lot of kids
I was a Rand reading, democrat dismissing, libertarian supporting teenager. I still have lots of libertarian leanings but that ideologue in me is decades removed and my young conservative leanings are now probably an enigma of progressive mishmash.

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Re: The Global Warming Thread

Post by Z-Corn »

LawBeefaroni wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 12:30 pm
And in other news, this is largely symbolic, but very symbolic. And highly offensive to anyone who spent time in summer childhoods (or adulthoods even) on the island.
Vice President Mike Pence scored a first when he took a motorcade to a speech on Michigan's picturesque Mackinac Island, drawing some criticism on social media.

Pence took an eight-vehicle motorcade to the island's Grand Hotel for a speech to the Republican Leadership Conference Saturday. He flew to Michigan, took a helicopter to the small island airport and transferred to vehicles brought by boat the night before.

The Detroit Free Press says it was the first ever motorcade on the island, which has prohibited [motor] vehicles since 1898 except for snowmobiles, emergency and service vehicles.

Total show of power/force and giant fuck you.
Hoo boy, not playing well at all to the water cooler talk crowd today. Even among some conservatives. Some things are sacred.

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Re: The Global Warming Thread

Post by The Meal »

Z-Corn wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 4:00 pm
LawBeefaroni wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 12:30 pm
And in other news, this is largely symbolic, but very symbolic. And highly offensive to anyone who spent time in summer childhoods (or adulthoods even) on the island.
Vice President Mike Pence scored a first when he took a motorcade to a speech on Michigan's picturesque Mackinac Island, drawing some criticism on social media.

Pence took an eight-vehicle motorcade to the island's Grand Hotel for a speech to the Republican Leadership Conference Saturday. He flew to Michigan, took a helicopter to the small island airport and transferred to vehicles brought by boat the night before.

The Detroit Free Press says it was the first ever motorcade on the island, which has prohibited [motor] vehicles since 1898 except for snowmobiles, emergency and service vehicles.

Total show of power/force and giant fuck you.
Hoo boy, not playing well at all to the water cooler talk crowd today. Even among some conservatives. Some things are sacred.
Is it even a full mile from the airport to The Grand Hotel?

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Re: The Global Warming Thread

Post by Z-Corn »

The Meal wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 6:08 pm
Z-Corn wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 4:00 pm
LawBeefaroni wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 12:30 pm
And in other news, this is largely symbolic, but very symbolic. And highly offensive to anyone who spent time in summer childhoods (or adulthoods even) on the island.
Vice President Mike Pence scored a first when he took a motorcade to a speech on Michigan's picturesque Mackinac Island, drawing some criticism on social media.

Pence took an eight-vehicle motorcade to the island's Grand Hotel for a speech to the Republican Leadership Conference Saturday. He flew to Michigan, took a helicopter to the small island airport and transferred to vehicles brought by boat the night before.

The Detroit Free Press says it was the first ever motorcade on the island, which has prohibited [motor] vehicles since 1898 except for snowmobiles, emergency and service vehicles.

Total show of power/force and giant fuck you.
Hoo boy, not playing well at all to the water cooler talk crowd today. Even among some conservatives. Some things are sacred.
Is it even a full mile from the airport to The Grand Hotel?
1.3 miles. 25 minutes to walk. What's that, 15 minutes by horse?

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Re: The Global Warming Thread

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Z-Corn wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 6:12 pm
1.3 miles. 25 minutes to walk. What's that, 15 minutes by horse?
Horse-ride optics would have been perfect. There are plenty of buggies on the island, and doesn't Pence love to pose in the saddle anyway?

I suppose it was a Secret Service thing, but in that case they probably should have just picked a different venue.
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Re: The Global Warming Thread

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He could even have done it shirtless like his master.

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Re: The Global Warming Thread

Post by LordMortis »

Holman wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 7:52 pm
Z-Corn wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 6:12 pm
1.3 miles. 25 minutes to walk. What's that, 15 minutes by horse?
Horse-ride optics would have been perfect. There are plenty of buggies on the island, and doesn't Pence love to pose in the saddle anyway?

I suppose it was a Secret Service thing, but in that case they probably should have just picked a different venue.
Speculation has been he hates horses. He was bit by... I want to say Secretariat.

If it's a secret service thing then things have changed.

Also, I don't think it would have been a big deal outside of Michigander offense at ignoring one of the prides of the state being subjected to being made great again keeping the swamp great or whatever the slogan and liberal over statement if it had just been Pence in the island emergency vehicle rather than a motorcade, 8 cars is my reading is to be trusted.

We'll see how well the state remembers in 2020. I'm guessing we'll forget because Dems are bad M'kay.

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Re: The Global Warming Thread

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LawBeefaroni wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 3:35 pm
Lagom Lite wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 2:23 pm
LawBeefaroni wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 12:27 pm
When I was 12 I wanted to join the IRA. It was a very misguided fit of righteousness and justice. I think it's common for that age.
She's sixteen. And sorry to tell you this, but most people never consider joining a terrorist organisation.
In the US this was a time of Noraid and churches collecting for the "poor oppressed" Irish. But paint it black and white all you want. My point was that at that age (early to mid teens) there is an idealistic, self-righteous streak in a lot of kids. Thunberg may be 100% on the mark but it's not like no one has thought of this before.
Your equating all youthful activism as misguided is pretty black and white, too.

My point was merely that some youthful idealism is obviously misguided. Some is not.
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Re: The Global Warming Thread

Post by LawBeefaroni »

The self-righteous is misguided. The finger wagging and shouts of economic fascism may play well on social media but what exactly is her solution?

They are claiming "rights of the child" and demanding immediate reduction on greenhouse gasses. And yes, they're right that one major impediment is greed. However another is productivity. In order to improve their futures, the futures of millions of other kids will end in starvation.

I get it, it's a wake up call and the classic "don't you care about the kids" and more power to her. But for anyone paying attention it's not news and her approach is extremely divisive.
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Re: The Global Warming Thread

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She has her heart in the right place. But watching her UN speech I kept thinking "Dramatic much kid?" All breathy and whiny. Too much....dial it down.

Trump was there but from his comments on her I dont think he was awake.
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Re: The Global Warming Thread

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LawBeefaroni wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 7:24 am
The self-righteous is misguided. The finger wagging and shouts of economic fascism may play well on social media but what exactly is her solution?
I think she makes a point to not propose solutions, but to call the powerful into action. Sure, she's dramatic. So what? The purpose of activism is to bring an issue into the light, to whip society and politicians into a certain direction. She's pretty successful at that.

The solution to climate change is of course complex, and IMO probably not even possible (or at least, unlikely) at least for now given the vested interests of big money and, as your say, demand and the need for industry to function.

Personally, I do not share Greta's optimism. I think the world needs to feel real effects of global warming before the economy can be shifted to sustainability. Call it human nature. I think the best we can hope for is enough social awareness, political will and technological solutions are developed so a thorough international collaboration can quickly kickstart once the shit hits the fan. And we'll all just have to deal with the fallout in terms of crop failure, famine and climate refugees.
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Re: The Global Warming Thread

Post by LawBeefaroni »

There are two ways out.

-Technological breakthrough (cheap & efficient energy source, carbon sequestration, etc.)

-Massive pain that forces change. And by pain, I don't mean eating less meat or having to ride a bike everywhere. I mean huge die-offs, catastrophic climates, mass starvation, and other events that cripple put ability to destroy the environment as they run their long course.

It may be a combination but those are the only ways out. We aren't going to legislate or voluntarily sacrifice our way to equilibrium. I hope technology wins out but I'm not expecting it to.
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Re: The Global Warming Thread

Post by hepcat »

Holman wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 7:52 pm
Z-Corn wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 6:12 pm
1.3 miles. 25 minutes to walk. What's that, 15 minutes by horse?
Horse-ride optics would have been perfect. There are plenty of buggies on the island, and doesn't Pence love to pose in the saddle anyway?

I suppose it was a Secret Service thing, but in that case they probably should have just picked a different venue.
Pence can't:

1) Be seen riding a female horse because he's married and it might be offensive to his wife.

2) Be seen riding a male horse because it might come across as endorsing homosexuality.

So his only two options were to use vehicles or have a big, strong secret service agent (preferably Todd, according to his notes) carry him across the island in his arms.
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Re: The Global Warming Thread

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LawBeefaroni wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 8:58 am
There are two ways out.

-Technological breakthrough (cheap & efficient energy source, carbon sequestration, etc.)

-Massive pain that forces change. And by pain, I don't mean eating less meat or having to ride a bike everywhere. I mean huge die-offs, catastrophic climates, mass starvation, and other events that cripple put ability to destroy the environment as they run their long course.

It may be a combination but those are the only ways out. We aren't going to legislate or voluntarily sacrifice our way to equilibrium. I hope technology wins out but I'm not expecting it to.
Sure, I would agree with that, adding one caveat: With enough groundwork already laid in terms of public discourse, climate conferences and R&D prioritizing climate technology, the "forced change" you speak of would be easier to implement. Without the likes of Thunberg activism, making the needed changes would be harder to find public support for.
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Re: The Global Warming Thread

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LawBeefaroni wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 8:58 am
There are two ways out.

-Technological breakthrough (cheap & efficient energy source, carbon sequestration, etc.)
Garbage dumps full of plastic?

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Re: The Global Warming Thread

Post by Daehawk »

I get the feeling the global fuckup will slide along slowly but then WHAM its going to be like dropping off a cliff and things will all go south fast fast fast fast. Not the slow forever type deal many think it will be in their heads. Its going to reach a point of no return and simply fall flat.
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Re: The Global Warming Thread

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Daehawk wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 10:52 am
I get the feeling the global fuckup will slide along slowly but then WHAM its going to be like dropping off a cliff and things will all go south fast fast fast fast. Not the slow forever type deal many think it will be in their heads. Its going to reach a point of no return and simply fall flat.
That's simply not how climate works. The tipping point people are discussing could happen before 2100 but the full effects won't be felt for 300-500 years (by our best estimates).
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Re: The Global Warming Thread

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Im talking air, insects, animals..die offs. If all the ice melts well it gets colder and the shore is closer to me.
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Re: The Global Warming Thread

Post by LawBeefaroni »

LordMortis wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 10:26 am
LawBeefaroni wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 8:58 am
There are two ways out.

-Technological breakthrough (cheap & efficient energy source, carbon sequestration, etc.)
Garbage dumps full of plastic?
If the plastic is made out of captured atmospheric CO2, sure.
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Re: The Global Warming Thread

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Daehawk wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 11:15 am
Im talking air, insects, animals..die offs. If all the ice melts well it gets colder and the shore is closer to me.
None of that happens quickly either. Well, it will be quickly in geological terms...not so much in human terms.
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Re: The Global Warming Thread

Post by LordMortis »

If popular mags can be trusted, migration away from the equator on land is happening at about a mile a year unless plants and animals can migrate to a higher altitude. In the ocean about 4. This has been steady for a couple of decades while it had been increasing in the decades before.

From 2011

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national ... story.html
The new analysis reexamined more than 100 previous studies to give a global picture of altitude shifts in 23 groups of plants and animals and latitude shifts in 31 groups.

Although Thomas and colleagues found great variation in how far individual species had shifted over the decades, a trend was clear. On average, species migrated uphill 36 feet per decade and moved away from the equator — to cooler, higher latitudes — at 10 miles per decade. The rates are two to three times those estimated by the last major migration analysis, published in 2003.
From 2017,

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/news ... n-disease/
A tally of more than 4,000 species from around the world shows that roughly half are on the move. The ones on land are moving an average of more than 10 miles per decade, while marine species are moving four times faster. Some individual species are moving far more quickly. Atlantic cod and Europe's purple emperor butterfly, according to Camille Parmesan, a scientist at Plymouth University in the United Kingdom, moved more than 125 miles in a single decade.
By revisiting records kept by Walden author Henry David Thoreau, scientists showed that plants of all kinds in Concord, Massachusetts, now flower about 18 days earlier than they did in the 1850s.
None of this hypothesizes the next decade.

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Re: The Global Warming Thread

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WaPo
Trump administration officials threatened this week to withhold federal highway funding from California, arguing that the state has not shown what steps it is taking to improve its air quality. The move by the Environmental Protection Agency escalates the fierce battle between President Trump and the left-leaning state, and could put billions in federal funding in jeopardy.

In a predated letter sent late Monday to the California Air Resources Board, EPA Administrator Andrew Wheeler suggested that the state “has failed to carry out its most basic tasks under the Clean Air Act” and needs to either update its plans to tackle air pollution or risk losing federal money.
How about, oh, I don't know, stricter automotive emission standards!

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Re: The Global Warming Thread

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We are truly in the upside-down.

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Re: The Global Warming Thread

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Re: The Global Warming Thread

Post by coopasonic »

So the onion is just reporting the news now...
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Re: The Global Warming Thread

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coopasonic wrote:
Wed Sep 25, 2019 12:30 pm
So the onion is just reporting the news now...
Basically.

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Re: The Global Warming Thread

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Zaxxon wrote:
Wed Sep 25, 2019 12:40 pm
coopasonic wrote:
Wed Sep 25, 2019 12:30 pm
So the onion is just reporting the news now...
Basically.
In an age where people routinely try to call facts fake, and fake things facts, it's really hard to run a satire site.
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Re: The Global Warming Thread

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Re: The Global Warming Thread

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:clap:

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Re: The Global Warming Thread

Post by hepcat »

Best...post...of the month. :lol: :lol:
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Re: The Global Warming Thread

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The last exchange nailed it like Tiberius.

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Re: The Global Warming Thread

Post by Kraken »

Hottest September ever.
Globally, September 2019 was roughly 1.02 degrees Fahrenheit warmer than the average from 1981-2010, "making it the warmest September in our data record, although virtually on a par with 2016,"
TIED for hottest ever? Pshaw. Wake me when you have real news.
This year's warmth is occurring without the heat from a strong El Niño event in the tropical Pacific Ocean, according to the Capital Weather Gang. El Niño is a natural climate pattern that often boosts global temperatures by bringing more ocean heat to the surface and adding it to the atmosphere.

A powerful El Niño occurred in 2015 and 2016, contributing to the record heat at that time, the Capital Weather Gang said.
Oh.

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Re: The Global Warming Thread

Post by Max Peck »

Don't think of it as the hottest September ever; just consider it to be the coolest September of the rest of your life.
Time and tide melt the snowman.

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Re: The Global Warming Thread

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Wired
As of January 1, all marine vessels must drastically cut how much sulfur they pump into the air. The new regulation marks one of the first truly global initiatives to clean up planet Earth, and it just might wreak a bit of havoc on the world’s economy along the way.

The rule, officially dubbed MARPOL Annex VI, regulation 14, comes from the International Maritime Organization (IMO), a United Nations agency. Better known as IMO 2020 and agreed to by every nation that plays a serious role in global shipping, it dictates that ships either install pollution-control equipment or use fuel whose sulfur content is no more than 0.5 percent by weight, down from the current 3.5 percent limit.
...
By value, more than 70 percent of global trade makes part of its journey by ship. (By volume, it’s over 80 percent.) The world’s armada accounts for 4 percent of global oil demand, which may not seem like a lot if you don’t know that it represents 3.3 million daily barrels of a particularly gnarly oil product.

Most ships, especially the big ones that do the heavy hauling, burn what’s called high-sulfur fuel oil, or bunker fuel. ... Down at the bottom are the residual fuels—the stuff that sticks around after everything else has boiled off. That’s where you’ll find dark, viscous bunker fuel. The only things below it are carbon black—a common ingredient in tires—and asphalt.

Bunker fuel is also known as high-sulfur fuel oil because it contains up to 3,500 times as much sulfur as the diesel you put in your Volkswagen, according to researchers at Columbia University. And while sulfur’s not a greenhouse gas, it is quite horrible. It triggers acid rain, which contributes to ocean acidification. University of Washington researchers have found that ship exhaust intensifies thunderstorms, so shipping lanes get extra lightning.

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Re: The Global Warming Thread

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WaPo
It was 116 degrees Fahrenheit in the shade outside the new Al Janoub soccer stadium, and the air felt to air-conditioning expert Saud Ghani as if God had pointed “a giant hair dryer” at Qatar.

Yet inside the open-air stadium, a cool breeze was blowing. Beneath each of the 40,000 seats, small grates adorned with Arabic-style patterns were pushing out cool air at ankle level. And since cool air sinks, waves of it rolled gently down to the grassy playing field. Vents the size of soccer balls fed more cold air onto the field.

Ghani, an engineering professor at Qatar University, designed the system at Al Janoub, one of eight stadiums that the tiny but fabulously rich Qatar must get in shape for the 2022 World Cup. His breakthrough realization was that he had to cool only people, not the upper reaches of the stadium — a graceful structure designed by the famed Zaha Hadid Architects and inspired by traditional boats known as dhows.
...
Already one of the hottest places on Earth, Qatar has seen average temperatures rise more than 2 degrees Celsius above preindustrial times, the current international goal for limiting the damage of global warming.
...
To survive the summer heat, Qatar not only air-conditions its soccer stadiums, but also the outdoors — in markets, along sidewalks, even at outdoor malls so people can window shop with a cool breeze.
...
Qatar already has the distinction of being the largest per-capita emitter of greenhouse gases, according to the World Bank — nearly three times as much as the United States and almost six times as much as China.

Many Qataris believe that the World Bank’s accounting is misleading. Qatar’s huge exports of liquefied natural gas (LNG) are burned by distant customers across the globe. The bank’s methodology charges Qatar for those emissions, rather than its fossil-fuel-gobbling customers.

Even so, Qatar emits a lot of greenhouse gases. About 60 percent of the country’s electricity is used for cooling. By contrast, air conditioning accounts for barely 15 percent of U.S. electricity demand and less than 10 percent of China’s or India’s.

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Kraken
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Re: The Global Warming Thread

Post by Kraken »

Trump to CA: pollute more!
The Trump administration took another legal shot at California Wednesday, suing to block part of the state’s greenhouse gas reduction program and limit its ability to take international leadership in curbing planet-warming emissions.

In a lawsuit filed in the Eastern District of California, the Justice Department said that a regional system created by California’s air resources board, which caps planet-warming greenhouse gas emissions but lets corporations trade emissions credits within that cap, was unlawful because it included Quebec, Canada. The Justice Department cited the constitutional prohibition on states making their own treaties or agreements with foreign governments.
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California has been defying the Trump administration since it began. Sacramento has brought more than 30 environmental lawsuits alone, most of them to stop the rollbacks of climate change regulations enacted under the Obama administration.

But tensions have risen dramatically since the Trump administration vowed to eliminate California’s authority under the Clean Air Act to set automobile emissions standards that are stricter than those of the federal government.
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Michael Wara, director of the Climate and Energy Policy Program at the Woods Institute for the Environment at Stanford University, said the legal question could come down to whether California’s agreement is viewed as a treaty or merely a memorandum of understanding that does not rise to the level of a contract in possible violation of the president’s exclusive authority to set agreements with foreign nations.

The Western Climate Initiative — whose board includes representatives from California, Quebec, and Nova Scotia, another Canadian province — is also a defendant in the lawsuit. A similar cap-and-trade system, the Regional Greenhouse Gas Initiative, covers power-plant emissions in Connecticut, Delaware, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, New York, Rhode Island, and Vermont, but does not stray beyond the borders of the US.

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Pyperkub
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Re: The Global Warming Thread

Post by Pyperkub »

Well, they've done it to the entire country...
According to a study published this week by the National Bureau of Economic Research, fine particulate pollution increased 5.5 percent between 2016 and 2018, and evidence suggests the spike is responsible for 9,700 premature deaths last year alone. The study was based on data provided by the Environmental Protection Agency.

The bump in pollution comes after the amount of fine particulate matter in the air had decreased every year — and 24.2 percent overall — from 2009 to 2016. Some of the factors that study’s authors say are driving the increase are largely unrelated to Trump administration decisions: The health of the economy has prompted more driving and increased wildfires have put more particulate into the atmosphere. But the author’s also cite the government’s failure to enforce the Clean Air Act, which the Trump administration has worked to dismantle.
There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.

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Holman
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Re: The Global Warming Thread

Post by Holman »

Fake News. What you call pollution, real Americans call Freedom Air.
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.

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Blackhawk
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Re: The Global Warming Thread

Post by Blackhawk »

The number of innocent deaths that Trump has caused due to ego or profit makes me wish I was religious, just to relish the thought of him in hell.
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Re: The Global Warming Thread

Post by Jeff V »

Blackhawk wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 1:09 pm
The number of innocent deaths that Trump has caused due to ego or profit makes me wish I was religious, just to relish the thought of him in hell.
Then how would you reconcile voting for him like all of the other religious nutjobs do?

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