Who should be Romney's running mate?

[Anonymous Bosch]

I must admit, the notion of a Condoleezza Rice vs. Joe Biden debate would likely make for the most compelling viewing of the entire campaign.

[GreenGoo]

In recent days, she emailed supporters.

"2012 is perhaps a turning point for the United States," she warned.

Oh no! How have we come to this, where two thousand and twelve might be a turning point, but every other year or moment in time might not be/might not have been?

She's certainly strong out of the gate with meaningless rhetoric. You go Condi.

[Smoove_B]

An unmarried 57 year old woman for VP? What's she hiding?

[msduncan]

Doubt it's going to be Condi. She has claimed she really honestly doesn't want the job.

[pr0ner]

I must admit, the notion of a Condoleezza Rice vs. Joe Biden debate would likely make for the most compelling viewing of the entire campaign.

I don't think Biden would have a chance in hell of winning that debate.

[Exodor]

Doubt it's going to be Condi. She has claimed she really honestly doesn't want the job.

That and picking a pro-choice VP is not going to help Mitt endear himself to Christian conservatives.

[Kraken]

Doubt it's going to be Condi. She has claimed she really honestly doesn't want the job.

That and picking a pro-choice VP is not going to help Mitt endear himself to Christian conservatives.

She might be a game-changer for the independents who matter, though. The fundies are in the bag anyway by virtue of hating that Muslim socialist Negro fellow.

Rice would bring gravitas to a candidate who has none.

[Grundbegriff]

Doubt it's going to be Condi. She has claimed she really honestly doesn't want the job.

That and picking a pro-choice VP is not going to help Mitt endear himself to Christian conservatives.

Anecdotal: from what I've seen, Condi is wildly popular among politically engaged evangelicals, her "mildly pro-choice" position notwithstanding.

Condi's association with the Bush administration isn't necessarily a neg for two reasons. First, the figures reckoned most evil by most Bush haters are Cheney and Rumsfeld, and the memoirs of all parties indicate that she opposed them fiercely at critical junctures. Second, the specific policies and strategies with which she's most strongly associated are those that Obama has in fact perpetuated rather than negated.

Given her very strong favorability numbers (somewhere between 65 and 85%) in national polling, Romney's selecting her-- if it happened-- might swing the middle (and certain cross-cutting demographics) rather decisively.

Case in point: if he persuaded her to join him, I'd strongly consider voting for a Romney/Rice ticket.

[El Guapo]

Doubt it's going to be Condi. She has claimed she really honestly doesn't want the job.

That and picking a pro-choice VP is not going to help Mitt endear himself to Christian conservatives.

Anecdotal: from what I've seen, Condi is wildly popular among politically engaged evangelicals, her "mildly pro-choice" position notwithstanding.

Condi's association with the Bush administration isn't necessarily a neg for two reasons. First, the figures reckoned most evil by most Bush haters are Cheney and Rumsfeld, and the memoirs of all parties indicate that she opposed them fiercely at critical junctures. Second, the specific policies and strategies with which she's most strongly associated are those that Obama has in fact perpetuated rather than negated.

Given her very strong favorability numbers (somewhere between 65 and 85%) in national polling, Romney's selecting her-- if it happened-- might swing the middle (and certain cross-cutting demographics) rather decisively.

Case in point: if he persuaded her to join him, I'd strongly consider voting for a Romney/Rice ticket.

How would your likely voting differ if it were a Romney / Pawlenty ticket?

[Smoove_B]

Doubt it's going to be Condi. She has claimed she really honestly doesn't want the job.

But if her answer changes tomorrow, she'd be the perfect running mate.

[Grundbegriff]

How would your likely voting differ if it were a Romney / Pawlenty ticket?

Unless given a reason to do otherwise, I'll vote for Gary Johnson. As my previous remarks (1, 2, 3, 4) indicate, Pawlenty gives me no reason at all to do otherwise. I think Grundbegriff put it best:

Pawlenty -- certain types on the right like to talk this guy up, but I haven't seen anything from him that makes me think he's presidential. It seems to me, at this juncture, that nominating him concedes the election, and I'll continue to think so until someone shows me a reason to think otherwise.
...
...he looks in the mirror and sees a president but fails to realize that he stands nearly alone in that appreciation.

[msduncan]

Doubt it's going to be Condi. She has claimed she really honestly doesn't want the job.

But if her answer changes tomorrow, she'd be the perfect running mate.

Absolutely. I pray it is her. She's a game changer. A visionary. She has a great American story and is one of the most intelligent people to pass through Washington in decades.

[gbasden]

Doubt it's going to be Condi. She has claimed she really honestly doesn't want the job.

But if her answer changes tomorrow, she'd be the perfect running mate.

Absolutely. I pray it is her. She's a game changer. A visionary. She has a great American story and is one of the most intelligent people to pass through Washington in decades.

I don't know if I would completely agree with that hyperbole, but she's easily one of the top two or three Republicans I'd consider voting for. Romney really couldn't do much better than her if he could convince her to accept the job.

[Smoove_B]

Doubt it's going to be Condi. She has claimed she really honestly doesn't want the job.

But if her answer changes tomorrow, she'd be the perfect running mate.

Absolutely. I pray it is her. She's a game changer. A visionary. She has a great American story and is one of the most intelligent people to pass through Washington in decades.

I should have probably indicated I was making an observation more on Romney than her. I don't quite understand how or why she's a perfect fit, but I guess sine my observation fell flat I'll just let this go.

[El Guapo]

How would your likely voting differ if it were a Romney / Pawlenty ticket?

Unless given a reason to do otherwise, I'll vote for Gary Johnson. As my previous remarks (1, 2, 3, 4) indicate, Pawlenty gives me no reason at all to do otherwise. I think Grundbegriff put it best:

Pawlenty -- certain types on the right like to talk this guy up, but I haven't seen anything from him that makes me think he's presidential. It seems to me, at this juncture, that nominating him concedes the election, and I'll continue to think so until someone shows me a reason to think otherwise.
...
...he looks in the mirror and sees a president but fails to realize that he stands nearly alone in that appreciation.

My question, in truth, wasn't really about Pawlenty so much as my curiosity that you would evidently vote for Romney with Rice as VP, but probably not with another VP candidate (Pawlenty is just a fairly non-controversial VP contender). So let me just ask you directly - *why* would Rice as VP put your vote in play for Romney?

Not that Rice doesn't have credentials or is not a plausible choice. But Romney's at the top of the ticket, is by all accounts in good health, and so in all probability will be the guy driving the policy bus for at least the next four years if elected, regardless of who the VP choice is. So why is the VP choice possibly outcome determinative for you?

[GreenGoo]

What I find interesting is that VP choice has historically had very little to no impact on elections, but I like to think that Palin had a huge negative impact on McCain's chances, and here it seems Rice would have a very large positive impact on Romney's.

Does that speak to the weakness of the primary candidates or is it that the weakness or strength of the VP choices were just that significant?

[El Guapo]

I think the VP choice generally has little impact beyond a "minimally competent" threshold. Like, the VP has to seem not insane, and if you squint your eyes maybe seem kind of presidential. Beyond that, it may shift a few votes here and there (including, apparently, Grund's), but generally isn't determinative.

I do think Palin hurt McCain's chances in 2008, because she flunked the "not insane / presidential" test above in the eyes of a non-trivial number of voters. I think pretty much anyone discussed in this thread would meet that test, except that I don't know much about Ayotte so can't say as to her.

[silverjon]

I should have probably indicated I was making an observation more on Romney than her. I don't quite understand how or why she's a perfect fit, but I guess sine my observation fell flat I'll just let this go.

Your joke was what I was first thinking.

[Kraken]

Doubt it's going to be Condi. She has claimed she really honestly doesn't want the job.

But if her answer changes tomorrow, she'd be the perfect running mate.

Absolutely. I pray it is her. She's a game changer. A visionary. She has a great American story and is one of the most intelligent people to pass through Washington in decades.

I don't know if I would completely agree with that hyperbole, but she's easily one of the top two or three Republicans I'd consider voting for. Romney really couldn't do much better than her if he could convince her to accept the job.

Speaking as an independent who usually caucuses with the democrats, I concur. Her presence would not sway me to vote for Romney due to his term as a mediocre governor, his career as a rapacious capitalist, and his objectionable personality. But if the ticket were reversed I might go for it.

I can imagine Condi agreeing to take the job for the good of her party and as her patriotic duty. I find it harder to imagine Romney choosing someone who would dwarf him.

[Exodor]

I'm shocked! Shocked to find that naming Condi would require a Romney flip flop

Moderator: Gov. Romney, will the person you chose as your vice presidential running mate be someone who shares your pro-life and pro-marriage convictions?
Romney: I certainly imagine so, I haven’t made and selections in that regard … [as I look around at the people I would consider] I would expect that they would all be pro-life and pro-traditional marriage … but this is an important enough issue that the person that I would select in that position would share my views on those important issues.

Host: So more than just expectation — would share those views?

Romney: Yes … that person would share my views, yeah.

[msduncan]

I'm shocked! Shocked to find that naming Condi would require a Romney flip flop

Moderator: Gov. Romney, will the person you chose as your vice presidential running mate be someone who shares your pro-life and pro-marriage convictions?
Romney: I certainly imagine so, I haven’t made and selections in that regard … [as I look around at the people I would consider] I would expect that they would all be pro-life and pro-traditional marriage … but this is an important enough issue that the person that I would select in that position would share my views on those important issues.

Host: So more than just expectation — would share those views?

Romney: Yes … that person would share my views, yeah.

How's that a flip flop? He's had views on both sides, so by default Condi's views match some of his.

[msduncan]

Doubt it's going to be Condi. She has claimed she really honestly doesn't want the job.

But if her answer changes tomorrow, she'd be the perfect running mate.

Absolutely. I pray it is her. She's a game changer. A visionary. She has a great American story and is one of the most intelligent people to pass through Washington in decades.

I don't know if I would completely agree with that hyperbole, but she's easily one of the top two or three Republicans I'd consider voting for. Romney really couldn't do much better than her if he could convince her to accept the job.

Speaking as an independent who usually caucuses with the democrats, I concur. Her presence would not sway me to vote for Romney due to his term as a mediocre governor, his career as a rapacious capitalist, and his objectionable personality. But if the ticket were reversed I might go for it.

I can imagine Condi agreeing to take the job for the good of her party and as her patriotic duty. I find it harder to imagine Romney choosing someone who would dwarf him.

There is absolutely no doubt that she would dwarf him. I'm most excited because if we can get her on the ticket this time -- even if Romney loses perhaps we can convice her to run in 2016. Though she's never been one to 'RUN' for anything...so the chances are slim there.

[El Guapo]

I guess I'm a little confused by the depth of Condi love here. Absolutely, she seems like a smart and reasonable person. But I dunno, at the highest levels of society, both in government and business, there's a fair number of smart, reasonable people. Why is she so special?

[YellowKing]

This campaign unfortunately boils down to this:

Romney supporters: "Well, at least he's not Obama."

Obama supporters: "Well, at least he's not a Republican."

I really don't think either side of the fence is happy. Our country is in the shitter and our only choice is between two equally incompetent plumbers. It's pretty disheartening.

Thus the buzz about Condi injects some much needed excitement into the campaign. I don't think she'd accept the job either, but my God does the country wish she would. She's popular among Republicans AND Democrats, and I think the American people are starved for someone that they can actually feel good about getting behind.

In a perfect world I'd just say let's start everything over, and have Hillary and Condi run against each other for President. I'm seriously thinking we're way overdue for a female to right this sinking ship.

But I dunno, at the highest levels of society, both in government and business, there's a fair number of smart, reasonable people. Why is she so special?

I'd say even among smart people, she's one of the smartest. I think she's also popular because of her success as an African-American woman - in politics that's ordinarily two strikes against you right out of the gate. So her story is quite inspirational. I think she also comes across as a politician who succeeded through passion for doing the right thing vs simple passion for power.

[Pyperkub]

Doubt it's going to be Condi. She has claimed she really honestly doesn't want the job.

That and picking a pro-choice VP is not going to help Mitt endear himself to Christian conservatives.

Anecdotal: from what I've seen, Condi is wildly popular among politically engaged evangelicals, her "mildly pro-choice" position notwithstanding.

Condi's association with the Bush administration isn't necessarily a neg for two reasons. First, the figures reckoned most evil by most Bush haters are Cheney and Rumsfeld, and the memoirs of all parties indicate that she opposed them fiercely at critical junctures. Second, the specific policies and strategies with which she's most strongly associated are those that Obama has in fact perpetuated rather than negated.

Given her very strong favorability numbers (somewhere between 65 and 85%) in national polling, Romney's selecting her-- if it happened-- might swing the middle (and certain cross-cutting demographics) rather decisively.

Case in point: if he persuaded her to join him, I'd strongly consider voting for a Romney/Rice ticket.

I think a huge part of the Bush hatred is the Nixonian way that they did it. It's not a coincidence that they were part of the Nixon White House.

[RunningMn9]

On the contrary, I think the appeal of Condi is that she doesn't come across as a politician.

[noxiousdog]

I guess I'm a little confused by the depth of Condi love here. Absolutely, she seems like a smart and reasonable person. But I dunno, at the highest levels of society, both in government and business, there's a fair number of smart, reasonable people. Why is she so special?

Condi's had quite a bit of experience involving the oval office. Far more than Obama did. And the number of smart, reasonable people is probably shorter than you give it credit for, especially ones that the other side of the ideology ledger would agree with you on.

[Pyperkub]

I guess I'm a little confused by the depth of Condi love here. Absolutely, she seems like a smart and reasonable person. But I dunno, at the highest levels of society, both in government and business, there's a fair number of smart, reasonable people. Why is she so special?

Condi's had quite a bit of experience involving the oval office. Far more than Obama did. And the number of smart, reasonable people is probably shorter than you give it credit for, especially ones that the other side of the ideology ledger would agree with you on.

I'd add that she's a Republican untainted by the Evangelical side of the party. She's from the Foreign Policy/Economics/California branch, and that automatically gives her more credibility with what I would consider Moderate Voters, including Democrats.

[Rip]

I haven't got time to explain it right now, but put me on the Condi mega fan club train.


She has everything I look for in spades.

[msduncan]

One thing about her name surfacing.... I just realized she's 57. Say WHAT? She still looks like she's in her 40's.

[Kraken]

I guess I'm a little confused by the depth of Condi love here. Absolutely, she seems like a smart and reasonable person. But I dunno, at the highest levels of society, both in government and business, there's a fair number of smart, reasonable people. Why is she so special?

My impression of her might change if she actually had to, you know, campaign. But I see her as a practical, non-ideological Republican with integrity who opposed or sidestepped the worst excesses of the Bush administration.

Ask me again if she ever goes through the meat grinder of running for high office.

She has everything I look for in spades.

I'm going to pretend you didn't really just say that.

[silverjon]

She has everything I look for in spades.

I'm going to pretend you didn't really just say that.

Oh dear. But that's a thing about slightly archaic racial slurs that are also common words/idioms with other meanings... the writer might not even be aware of the offensive one, or at least not as a foremost thought.

"Chink in the armor" is a bit less forgivable coming from a pro writer with an editorial team.

[Grundbegriff]

So let me just ask you directly - *why* would Rice as VP put your vote in play for Romney?

Not that Rice doesn't have credentials or is not a plausible choice. But Romney's at the top of the ticket, is by all accounts in good health, and so in all probability will be the guy driving the policy bus for at least the next four years if elected, regardless of who the VP choice is. So why is the VP choice possibly outcome determinative for you?

In most cases it would not be. But I like Rice (personally and ideologically), and have long liked Rice. The eclectic character of her accomplishments (piano, figure skating, Sovietology, international relations theory, football) appeals to me. Plus she's a snappy dresser.

She stands on her merits. As a secondary factor, I also think it would be good for the country and the body politic for the ceilings she'd shatter to be broken first by a Republican. Partisan racialism and sexism are wicked weapons I'd like to see blunted for the benefit of political discourse yet to come.

Think of it as a vote in protest against the dearth of people like her in politics.

[Grundbegriff]

I'd add that she's a Republican untainted by the Evangelical side of the party.

She's the daughter of a conservative Presbyterian pastor.

[Rip]

I guess I'm a little confused by the depth of Condi love here. Absolutely, she seems like a smart and reasonable person. But I dunno, at the highest levels of society, both in government and business, there's a fair number of smart, reasonable people. Why is she so special?

My impression of her might change if she actually had to, you know, campaign. But I see her as a practical, non-ideological Republican with integrity who opposed or sidestepped the worst excesses of the Bush administration.

Ask me again if she ever goes through the meat grinder of running for high office.

She has everything I look for in spades.

I'm going to pretend you didn't really just say that.

[Sepiche]

This thread made me nostalgic for the McCain VP thread and sure enough there's some priceless quotes in there... ahh memories.

[Grundbegriff]

Through John Fund, someone inside throws cold water on the Condi rumors.

Move along.

Move along.

Move along.

Move along.

Move along.

[Holman]

Through John Fund, someone inside throws cold water on the Condi rumors.

From Grund's link:

She is on the wrong side of same-sex marriage and abortion as far as Romney’s political base is concerned. She goes beyond most Republicans in actually calling for legal abortion. Polls over several elections have shown that a significant number of “values voters” might stay home if a GOP presidential ticket included a candidate with those views.

President Obama has the African-American vote sewed up, and the presence of Rice on the ticket would be unlikely to dislodge many voters from those loyalties.

Being from California, she would also not affect enough votes to put that state in play in November.

Her record as secretary of state was mixed. It includes some successes but also featured a truly disastrous kowtowing to North Korea, which has continued its nuclear program despite several U.S. attempts to cut a deal with the rogue regime.

I suppose there's more mud that could be dredged up, such as ignoring the pre-9/11 Bin Laden report and going shoe-shopping during Katrina. But the main issues are probably that she's too moderate to inspire the base and that she might overshadow Romney in media appeal.

Is Romney going to have to pick a real fire-breather to overcome the base problem? Are we drifting towards a dire Huckabee scenario? (Imagine, if you will, the stats of a Dire Huckabee.)

[Exodor]

[. But the main issues are probably that she's too moderate to inspire the base and that she might overshadow Romney in media appeal.

Nominating Rice opens up the entire Bush presidency again. Obama is already calling a Romney presidency a return to the (mostly failed) policies of the Bush administration - adding Rice to the ticket legitimizes that assertion.

[GreenGoo]

I'm shocked! Shocked to find that naming Condi would require a Romney flip flop

Moderator: Gov. Romney, will the person you chose as your vice presidential running mate be someone who shares your pro-life and pro-marriage convictions?
Romney: I certainly imagine so, I haven’t made and selections in that regard … [as I look around at the people I would consider] I would expect that they would all be pro-life and pro-traditional marriage … but this is an important enough issue that the person that I would select in that position would share my views on those important issues.

Host: So more than just expectation — would share those views?

Romney: Yes … that person would share my views, yeah.

How's that a flip flop? He's had views on both sides, so by default Condi's views match some of his.

I'm with you, mostly because I think it's ok to change your mind on who is going to be your partner. I find it odd that people complain about flipflopping all the time while they give you msd a hard time about being more rigid in your beliefs. Flexibility is an important quality, especially when new facts come to light.

In this case though, it has nothing to do with personal belief or new facts. He simply said "sure, my vp will be in line with my positions". Changing his mind about that doesn't even require "new facts". "I changed my mind" is a perfectly valid answer as to why his potential VP choice is not completely in line with him. If he really feels the need to justify it, he can extoll the virtues of his choice in other areas that overshadow the "deficits".