[North Korea] The Dear Loser comes into his own.

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:12 pm

Absolute power...

Paingod · Post by **Paingod** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:17 pm

I'd wager those rockets were aims directly at DC. That's just as far as they could make it. Every time I see a graphic outlining their ballistic reach, I'm relieved to see Maine is out of their grasp.

NickAragua · Post by **NickAragua** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 3:05 pm

Paingod wrote:I'd wager those rockets were aims directly at DC. That's just as far as they could make it. Every time I see a graphic outlining their ballistic reach, I'm relieved to see Maine is out of their grasp.

Also, it helps not having any symbolically important cities. Which reminds me, how're the real estate prices up there?

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:00 pm

When I was in the reserves we would go to Deep Woods, Maine to blow stuff up in relative peace and quiet.

Apparently it isn't actually a place but more of a concept. Either way, we had no idea where we were.

msteelers · Post by **msteelers** » Wed Mar 22, 2017 9:12 pm

I haven't read all of this thread, so apologies if it's already been covered.

A recent missile test by North Korea ended with the missile exploding seconds after it launched. I found that interesting, because it reminded me of an episode of NYT's The Daily podcast, which described the US's cyber warfare against North Korea, and how we've been hacking to either stop their launches before they start, or seconds after they fire. Here's the article that I believe the podcast was based on.

The decision to intensify the cyber and electronic strikes, in early 2014, came after Mr. Obama concluded that the $300 billion spent since the Eisenhower era on traditional antimissile systems, often compared to hitting “a bullet with a bullet,” had failed the core purpose of protecting the continental United States. Flight tests of interceptors based in Alaska and California had an overall failure rate of 56 percent, under near-perfect conditions. Privately, many experts warned the system would fare worse in real combat.

So the Obama administration searched for a better way to destroy missiles. It reached for techniques the Pentagon had long been experimenting with under the rubric of “left of launch,” because the attacks begin before the missiles ever reach the launchpad, or just as they lift off.

It's a fascinating, and terrifying, article. Worth the read.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Wed Mar 22, 2017 11:15 pm

So Obama had recently watched Dr. No?

Carpet_pissr · Post by **Carpet_pissr** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 12:17 pm

Max Peck wrote: more unnerving than a bullet in a back alley.

Well played! Nerve gas jokes are HARD.

Max Peck · Post by **Max Peck** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 12:59 pm

Carpet_pissr wrote:
Max Peck wrote: more unnerving than a bullet in a back alley.
Well played! Nerve gas jokes are HARD.

But a good one will leave you convulsing with laughter.

Max Peck · Post by **Max Peck** » Sun Apr 02, 2017 6:18 pm

Trump says US is ready to act alone on North Korea

President Donald Trump says that the United States is prepared to act alone if China does not take a tougher stand against North Korea's nuclear program.

Trump's comments in an interview with the Financial Times come just days before he is set to host Chinese President Xi Jinping at his Mar-a-Lago estate in South Florida. The two are expected to discuss a number of issues, including North Korea, trade and territorial disputes in the South China Sea during their meeting on Thursday and Friday.

"Yes, we will talk about North Korea," Trump told the newspaper for a story that appeared Sunday on its website. "And China has great influence over North Korea. And China will either decide to help us with North Korea, or they won't. And if they do that will be very good for China, and if they don't it won't be good for anyone."

Trump said trade was the incentive for China to work with the United States. Still, he said the United States could "totally" handle the situation in North Korea without China's help.

Asked how he would tackle North Korea, Trump said: "I'm not going to tell you. You know, I am not the United States of the past where we tell you where we are going to hit in the Middle East."

If it were anyone else, I'd just say "Meh, I know what he means" but since it's Trump, I'm thinking it might be a good idea to have someone point out North Korea on a map before he launches his surprise strike. Just saying...

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Sun Apr 02, 2017 7:36 pm

Where's that 30-day ISIS plan?

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Sun Apr 02, 2017 8:50 pm

Max Peck wrote: I'm thinking it might be a good idea to have someone point out North Korea on a map before he launches his surprise strike. Just saying...

And then point to China. And then show him the size of their military, possibly using The Count from Sesame Street.

Max Peck · Post by **Max Peck** » Sun Apr 02, 2017 8:50 pm

Isgrimnur wrote:Where's that 30-day ISIS plan?

That was his generals' homework assignment; from what I can see, they went with keeping on doing what they were doing. Trump's own secret plan is the only thing still not leaked from the White House.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Sun Apr 02, 2017 8:51 pm

ISIS was defeated three weeks after Trump took office! Stop reading FAKE NEWS!

Max Peck · Post by **Max Peck** » Tue Apr 04, 2017 8:26 pm

Kim acts out ahead of the Xi-Trump meetup.

North Korea fired a ballistic missile into the waters off its east coast on Wednesday, South Korean officials said, in a continuation of its weapons launches made as the country is angrily reacting to annual military drills between U.S. and South Korean troops.

The missile fired from the North's eastern coastal town of Sinpo on Wednesday morning flew about 60 kilometers (37 miles), Seoul's Joint Chiefs of Staff said in a statement. It gave no further details like exactly what type of missile the North launched.

The 60 kilometers is a relatively short flight compared with the distances that other North Korean missiles flew. Two weeks ago, the South Korean and U.S. militaries said they detected what they called a failed North Korean ballistic missile launch. But earlier in March, North Korea fired four ballistic missiles that flew about 1,000 kilometers (620 miles), with three of them landing in waters that Japan claims as its exclusive economic zone.

The firing was made as South Korean and U.S. troops were conducting their springtime drills that the North views as an invasion rehearsal. The allies say the drills set to run until the end of this month are defensive in nature.

Carpet_pissr · Post by **Carpet_pissr** » Wed Apr 05, 2017 8:25 am

Isgrimnur wrote:Where's that 30-day ISIS plan?

God, you liberal Trump haters are insufferable. You're taking him literally again and spinning things out of context. He OBVIOUSLY meant "30 days" in the biblical, Genesis sense.

30 days, 300 days, 30 months....do the numbers really matter? You know damn well what he meant. Quit trying to pin him down.

Defiant · Post by **Defiant** » Wed Apr 05, 2017 9:58 am

Great. Lets all hope that the short tempered egotistical man in control of nuclear weapons doesn't go nuts. And also that Kim doesn't go nuts, either.

Max Peck · Post by **Max Peck** » Sun Apr 09, 2017 1:35 am

US deploys navy strike group to Korean peninsula

The US military has ordered a navy strike group to move towards the Korean peninsula, amid growing concerns about North Korea's missile programme.

The Carl Vinson Strike Group comprises an aircraft carrier and other warships.

US Pacific Command described the deployment - now heading towards the western Pacific - as a prudent measure to maintain readiness in the region.

President Trump has said the US is prepared to act alone to deal with the nuclear threat from North Korea.

"The number one threat in the region continues to be North Korea, due to its reckless, irresponsible and destabilising programme of missile tests and pursuit of a nuclear weapons capability," US Pacific Command spokesman Dave Benham said.

The strike group comprises the Nimitz-class aircraft carrier USS Carl Vinson, two guided-missile destroyers and a guided-missile cruiser.

It was originally due to make port calls in Australia but instead has been diverted from Singapore to the west Pacific.

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Sun Apr 09, 2017 1:57 am

My inner neocon says it's about time somebody knocked Dear Leader's dick in the dirt, but my brain says that's China's job. We're just moving a bishop up a few squares. What could possibly go wrong?

DD* · Post by DD* » Sun Apr 09, 2017 9:38 pm

Kraken wrote:My inner neocon says it's about time somebody knocked Dear Leader's dick in the dirt, but my brain says that's China's job. We're just moving a bishop up a few squares. What could possibly go wrong?

You assume China *wants* to knock Dear Loonies dick in the dirt; much more likely they want him around to make everyone in the neighborhood nervous. Just so long as he doesn't get too looney.

Problem is I'm not sure Kimmie is down with his marching orders, and that is a very scary thought.

Max Peck · Post by **Max Peck** » Sun Apr 09, 2017 9:58 pm

Apparently China has lost a lot of leverage with Kim. He's been liquidating a lot of the people within the Nork regime power structure that had close ties with China, such as his uncle and brother.

Moliere · Post by **Moliere** » Sun Apr 09, 2017 10:34 pm

Max Peck wrote:Apparently China has lost a lot of leverage with Kim. He's been liquidating a lot of the people within the Nork regime power structure that had close ties with China, such as his uncle and brother.

A good summary of the China / N.K. relationship.

For now, policy failure on the peninsula has dampened hopes for a de-escalation of regional tensions. Though Beijing, Seoul, and Washington have voiced apparent solidarity (PDF) for a denuclearized North Korea, differences remain over how best to strip the country of its nuclear threat. But “there’s an increasing understanding that North Korea does not provide the kind of stable neighbor and element of the neighborhood that China likes, ” says former U.S. ambassador to South Korea and Six Party Talk negotiator Christopher R. Hill. Still, “China’s strategic interests in stability and the denuclearization of the Korean peninsula will require Beijing to improve ties with Pyongyang in order to restore its leverage,” adds CFR’s Snyder.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Sun Apr 09, 2017 10:39 pm

Still, “China’s strategic interests in stability and the denuclearization of the Korean peninsula will require Beijing to improve ties with Pyongyang in order to restore its leverage,” adds CFR’s Snyder.

Max Peck · Post by **Max Peck** » Sat Apr 15, 2017 8:35 pm

Nork missile launch fails day after military parade

North Korea has attempted to launch a missile on its east coast which is believed to have failed, South Korean and US military officials say.

The US said it had detected a ballistic missile, which blew up immediately.

It comes a day after North Korea warned the US that it was "ready to hit back with nuclear attacks" amid mounting tension in the region.

The state has already conducted five nuclear tests and a series of missile launches.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Mon Apr 17, 2017 11:04 am

A ‘Cuban Missile Crisis in Slow Motion’ in North Korea. Not exactly the headline I want to see with Trump in office. Hopefully this doesn't go horribly wrong.

Max Peck · Post by **Max Peck** » Mon Apr 17, 2017 3:42 pm

All this kerfuffle is making Kim feel a little testy.

North Korea will continue to test missiles, a senior official has told the BBC in Pyongyang, despite international condemnation and growing military tensions with the US.

"We'll be conducting more missile tests on a weekly, monthly and yearly basis," Vice Foreign Minister Han Song-ryol told the BBC's John Sudworth.

He said that an "all-out war" would result if the US took military action.

Earlier, US Vice-President Mike Pence warned North Korea not to test the US.

He said his country's "era of strategic patience" with North Korea was over.

Mr Pence arrived in Seoul on Sunday hours after North Korea carried out a failed missile launch.

Tensions have been escalating on the peninsula, with heated rhetoric from both North Korea and the US.

Mr Han told the BBC: "If the US is planning a military attack against us, we will react with a nuclear pre-emptive strike by our own style and method."

By their "own style and method" I would presume they mean shipping containers.

AWS260 · Post by **AWS260** » Mon Apr 17, 2017 4:40 pm

malchior wrote:A ‘Cuban Missile Crisis in Slow Motion’ in North Korea. Not exactly the headline I want to see with Trump in office. Hopefully this doesn't go horribly wrong.

Another good NYT piece on North Korea's nukes. It does not make me optimistic.

The United States’ relative strength is also, paradoxically, a weakness. North Korea knows that it would quickly succumb to a full American attack, making its only option to escalate to nuclear strikes almost immediately at the start of a conflict.

North Korea also fears that the United States might seek to depose its government in rapid strikes against the leadership, a threat it seeks to deter with repeated warnings of a nuclear response.

In this way, North Korean weakness constrains any American options. Punitive strikes, which might otherwise be used to chasten the country, or strikes meant to degrade the missile or nuclear programs, would risk stirring North Korea’s fear of an all-out attack, leading to nuclear conflict.

PLW · Post by **PLW** » Mon Apr 17, 2017 4:42 pm

It would be a very scary time to be living in Seoul.

Max Peck · Post by **Max Peck** » Mon Apr 17, 2017 4:50 pm

AWS260 wrote:
malchior wrote:A ‘Cuban Missile Crisis in Slow Motion’ in North Korea. Not exactly the headline I want to see with Trump in office. Hopefully this doesn't go horribly wrong.
Another good NYT piece on North Korea's nukes. It does not make me optimistic.
The United States’ relative strength is also, paradoxically, a weakness. North Korea knows that it would quickly succumb to a full American attack, making its only option to escalate to nuclear strikes almost immediately at the start of a conflict.

North Korea also fears that the United States might seek to depose its government in rapid strikes against the leadership, a threat it seeks to deter with repeated warnings of a nuclear response.

In this way, North Korean weakness constrains any American options. Punitive strikes, which might otherwise be used to chasten the country, or strikes meant to degrade the missile or nuclear programs, would risk stirring North Korea’s fear of an all-out attack, leading to nuclear conflict.

They also have stockpiles of chemical and biological agents. Those 170mm artillery pieces that were discussed in the other thread probably wouldn't be restricted to lobbing HE rounds into Seoul.

Grifman · Post by **Grifman** » Mon Apr 17, 2017 7:29 pm

I'm not usually naive about these things but why don't we offer NK the following deal?

Recognition of NK government and exchange of ambassadors
Peace treaty (must include SK)
Pledge not to attack NK (non-aggression pact for Civ fans)
End of all economic sanctions

In return NK

Drops nuclear program
Submits to very strong inspection regime

My understanding is that NK's nukes are all about regime survival - they saw what happened to Sadaam and that is their worry. So why don't we pledge officially that we would not do this? They also crave some sort of recognition by the US so why not give it to them.

Or are they so bent on nukes that this would not be attractive to them at all?

Edit: Sounds like it's been tried and failed:

http://www.cnn.com/2016/02/22/politics/ ... ce-treaty/

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Mon Apr 17, 2017 9:44 pm

1. Would you trust the US to keep its word? Under Trump?

2. Kim's power depends on the US boogeyman.

This seems like a good place to drop this column: Trump is inadvertently putting Nixon's Madman Theory into practice.

President Donald Trump’s most nerve-racking trait—his unhinged impulsiveness, driven more by random stimuli and shifts in mood than by careful study or long-held principles—might be having an oddly stabilizing influence in the world’s crisis-strewn regions, at least for a little while.

Consider what Richard Nixon called “the Madman Theory.” In the early years of his presidency, he told his national security adviser, Henry Kissinger, to warn the North Vietnamese that Nixon was crazy. Nixon is obsessed with Communism, Kissinger was supposed to say. He can’t be restrained when he’s angry, and for God’s sake, he has his hand on the nuclear button. In two days’ time, Nixon predicted, Ho Chi Minh will be “begging for peace.”

The ploy didn’t work, in part because the North Vietnamese didn’t believe it. Whatever the many other eccentricities that Nixon had displayed in a quarter-century of public life, he wasn’t a madman, at least not in that way.

Trump, on the other hand, really does seem to be, if not quite insane, at least erratic, unpredictable, prone to outbursts of violence detached from coherent policy (e.g., firing 59 cruise missiles at Syria, to little effect, followed by nothing) and drastic reversals of opinion (e.g., recent statements on NATO, China, Russia, Janet Yellen, and the Ex-Im Bank, to name a few).

I am not suggesting that Trump has intentionally adopted Nixon’s madman strategy (or any strategy at all). I am proposing, however, that his behavior might be having the effect that Nixon desired.

Kim has to be wondering (as are we all) if Trump is crazier than he is.

For those who won't read the full column, I'll just add my favorite bit:

In his 1960 book On Thermonuclear War, the flamboyant nuclear strategist Herman Kahn likened certain kinds of conflict to the game of highway chicken. Two cars speed toward each other, head on, late at night. In the standard version of the game, there are three possible outcomes. One driver gets nervous and veers away; he loses. Both drivers veer away; the game’s a draw. They both keep zooming straight ahead; everybody dies. But Khan posited a fourth outcome and an unconventional way to win: One driver yanks the steering wheel from his dashboard and visibly throws it out the window; the other driver, seeing that his opponent can’t pull off the road, has no choice but to veer away himself.

In this analogy, Trump is the guy who’s thrown the steering wheel out the window, possibly without knowing what the steering wheel does. The other drivers, Russia or China, can’t be sure of his motives, but they’d better get out of the way anyway.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Mon Apr 17, 2017 10:37 pm

But when you are in your Ferrari and the on-coming car is a WW I tank - you are just being stupid ripping out the steering wheel.

Grifman · Post by **Grifman** » Mon Apr 17, 2017 11:49 pm

Kraken wrote:1. Would you trust the US to keep its word? Under Trump?

If he put the US's name to a treaty, yes.

Max Peck · Post by **Max Peck** » Tue Apr 18, 2017 1:00 am

So, why is Pence bringing his daughter along on a trip to the DMZ? Is she an administration official, or is Pence just trying to fit in with the Trump way of doing things?

U.S. Vice President Mike Pence stands next to his daughter looking toward the north through a pair of binocular from an observation post inside the demilitarized zone separating the two Koreas, in Paju, South Korea, April 17, 2017. REUTERS/Kim Hong-Ji

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Tue Apr 18, 2017 1:05 am

Kim has to be wondering (as are we all) if Trump is crazier than he is.

I think they are having a war of bad hairdoos. I cant tell who is losing.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Tue Apr 18, 2017 8:09 am

If Pence or his family is paying the associated costs for her to go, I have no issues with it.

Remember, they charge the press for lunch on Air Force One.

Max Peck · Post by **Max Peck** » Tue Apr 18, 2017 8:14 am

Maybe it was Bring Your Kids to Work Day.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Tue Apr 18, 2017 9:34 am

Max Peck wrote:So, why is Pence bringing his daughter along on a trip to the DMZ? Is she an administration official, or is Pence just trying to fit in with the Trump way of doing things?

U.S. Vice President Mike Pence stands next to his daughter looking toward the north through a pair of binocular from an observation post inside the demilitarized zone separating the two Koreas, in Paju, South Korea, April 17, 2017. REUTERS/Kim Hong-Ji

If Jung Un marries her, problem solved. Old, old school diplomacy.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Tue Apr 18, 2017 10:22 am

Max Peck wrote:So, why is Pence bringing his daughter along on a trip to the DMZ? Is she an administration official, or is Pence just trying to fit in with the Trump way of doing things?

U.S. Vice President Mike Pence stands next to his daughter looking toward the north through a pair of binocular from an observation post inside the demilitarized zone separating the two Koreas, in Paju, South Korea, April 17, 2017. REUTERS/Kim Hong-Ji

My guess is that if he travels with a female family member, his wife is much less concerned about him.

pr0ner · Post by **pr0ner** » Tue Apr 18, 2017 12:09 pm

His wife is on that trip, too....

Max Peck · Post by **Max Peck** » Tue Apr 18, 2017 12:10 pm

So, it was a bluff?

As tensions mounted on the Korean Peninsula, Adm. Harry Harris made a dramatic announcement: An aircraft carrier had been ordered to sail north from Singapore on April 8 toward the Western Pacific.

A spokesman for the U.S. Pacific Command, which Harris heads, linked the deployment directly to the “number one threat in the region,” North Korea, and its “reckless, irresponsible and destabilizing program of missile tests and pursuit of a nuclear weapons capability.”

Defense Secretary Jim Mattis told reporters on April 11 that the Carl Vinson was “on her way up there.” Asked about the deployment in an interview with Fox Business Network that aired April 12, President Trump said: “We are sending an armada, very powerful.”

U.S. media went into overdrive, and Fox reported on April 14 that the armada was “steaming” toward North Korea.

But pictures posted by the U.S. Navy suggest that’s not quite the case — or at least not yet.

A photograph released by the Navy showed the aircraft carrier sailing through the calm waters of Sunda Strait between the Indonesian islands of Sumatra and Java on Saturday, April 15. By later in the day, it was in the Indian Ocean, according to Navy photographs.

In other words, on the same day that the world nervously watched North Korea stage a massive military parade to celebrate the birthday of the nation’s founder, Kim Il Sung, and the press speculated about a preemptive U.S. strike, the U.S. Navy put the Carl Vinson, together with its escort of two guided-missile destroyers and a cruiser, more than 3,000 miles southwest of the Korean Peninsula — and more than 500 miles southeast of Singapore.

Instead of steaming toward the Korea Peninsula, the carrier strike group was actually headed in the opposite direction to take part in “scheduled exercises with Australian forces in the Indian Ocean,” according to Defense News, which first reported the story.