[North Korea] The Dear Loser comes into his own.

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Re: The Dear Loser comes into his own. (North Korea)

Post by Moliere »

Inside North Korea’s Hacker Army
Jong wasn’t involved in those attacks, but for half a decade before defecting, he was a foot soldier in North Korea’s hacker army. Unlike their counterparts elsewhere, who might seek to expose security vulnerabilities, steal corporate and state secrets, or simply sow chaos, North Korean hackers have a singular purpose: to earn money for the country, currently squeezed by harsh international sanctions for its rogue nuclear program. For most of the time Jong spent as part of this brigade he lived and worked in a crowded three-story home in a northeastern Chinese city. The hackers he shared it with were required to earn up to $100,000 a year, through whatever means they could, and were allowed to keep less than 10 percent of that. If they stepped out of line, the consequences could be severe.
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Re: The Dear Loser comes into his own. (North Korea)

Post by Daehawk »

I wonder if Trumps parade is bigger that NK will try to do a bigger one to top that one and so on?
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Re: The Dear Loser comes into his own. (North Korea)

Post by Moliere »

Why No One Should Be Praising Kim Jong Un’s Sister
“She’s literally the director of propaganda and agitation for a terrible, terrible regime. So yes, shaking her hand would be a problem,” Ham said, referring to the North Korean dictator’s sister, Kim Yo Jong. The Washington Post, CNN, ABC News, NBC News, Reuters, and other media outlets have run pieces normalizing her and praising her diplomacy at the games.

“I think it’s really important for activists who don’t like Pence or don’t like this White House and media, to be pretty clear about the fact that she is literally doing P.R. for public executions and gulags,” Katharine Ham added. “That’s her job.”

Mainstream news outlets have also showed an infatuation with the synchronized dancing and singing North Korean cheering section.

“These cheerleaders, by the way, who we get all ‘Slay Kween Slay,’ are prisoners of their country and are trained at gunpoint to cheer,” Katharine Ham said. “So let’s not get too excited just because we disagree with Pence on gay marriage. This is a bad, bad look and it is a propaganda victory for them.”
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Re: The Dear Loser comes into his own. (North Korea)

Post by Fitzy »

What the hell?

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Re: The Dear Loser comes into his own. (North Korea)

Post by Max Peck »

High seas shell game: How a North Korean shipping ruse makes a mockery of sanctions
The rusting seaport called Kholmsk is one of the sleepiest harbors in Russia’s Far East, a place that sees more full moons than coal ships in a typical year. Yet for a few weeks late last summer, this tiny port was chockablock with vessels hauling outlawed North Korean coal.

At least four ships of different flags showed up in August and September to dump North Korean anthracite onto a pile near the harbor’s southern tip, maritime records show. Then, six other ships arrived to pick up coal from the same spot and deliver it to foreign markets. Between the voyages, the harbor was witness to a kind of magic trick: Illicit North Korean coal was transformed into Russian coal, which can be legally sold anywhere.

Some of it ended up in the most unexpected of places: South Korea and Japan, two of Pyongyang’s main rivals.

“They literally ‘laundered’ the coal,” said a Western diplomat, speaking on the condition of anonymity to describe new details from a confidential U.N. investigation of the incident. “It’s the same tactic criminals use to launder ill-gotten cash.”
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Re: The Dear Loser comes into his own. (North Korea)

Post by Kraken »

Clean coal at last!
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Re: The Dear Loser comes into his own. (North Korea)

Post by Max Peck »

Kraken wrote: Sun Mar 04, 2018 3:22 am Clean coal at last!
Nice. :clap:
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Re: The Dear Loser comes into his own. (North Korea)

Post by Holman »

So tonight's big announcement (coming, weirdly, from the South Koreans rather than from the White House) is that Kim has invited Trump to come to North Korea for nuclear negotiations. The invitation itself already makes Kim the host and driver of the proceedings, and makes the USA look like a petitioner coming with requests. It's almost certainly a domestic public relations move--real negotiations have always been held with little fanfare.

Trump has accepted, apparently because he never met flattery he wouldn't accept or an authoritarian style he couldn't endorse.

Oh, and apparently the Pentagon didn't even know this was going down until about five minutes before.

EDIT: OMG, apparently Tillerson wasn't even looped in until the last minute. Just this afternoon he made comments that any negotiations were a long way off.

It's North Korea, and Trump is just winging it.
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Re: The Dear Loser comes into his own. (North Korea)

Post by Smoove_B »

Wait until he finds out there's no McDonald's or KFC.
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Re: The Dear Loser comes into his own. (North Korea)

Post by pr0ner »

Smoove_B wrote: Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:43 pm Wait until he finds out there's no McDonald's or KFC.
Kim will import it for Trump.
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Re: The Dear Loser comes into his own. (North Korea)

Post by GreenGoo »

Drumpf will have to put an exemption from sanctions on those fast food joints first.

Which of course he will, because that's how geopolitics works when you're winning.
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Re: The Dear Loser comes into his own. (North Korea)

Post by Holman »


link
North Korea has been seeking a summit with an American president for more than twenty years. It has literally been a top foreign policy goal of Pyongyang since Kim Jong Il invited Bill Clinton. (1/3)
I wonder if Trump's "aides" have explained that to him. Or, if in their toddler-handling, they have led him to believe that this offer is something unusual. Or perhaps he imagines that only he can go Pyongyang. (2/3)
This is literally how the North Korean film "The Country I Saw" ends. An American President visits Pyongyang, compelled by North Korea's nuclear and missile programs to treat a Kim as an equal. (3/3)
PS: To be clear -- we need to talk to North Korea. But Kim is not inviting Trump so that he can surrender North Korea's weapons. Kim is inviting Trump to demonstrate that his investment in nuclear and missile capabilities has forced the United States to treat him as an equal.
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Re: The Dear Loser comes into his own. (North Korea)

Post by pr0ner »



There's always a tweet.
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Re: The Dear Loser comes into his own. (North Korea)

Post by Kraken »

Kim will play Trump like a deck of marked cards, and Trump will leave thinking he has a new BFF.
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Re: The Dear Loser comes into his own. (North Korea)

Post by em2nought »

At least Trump isn't going to bow to him. :wink:

He probably won't give Kim an airplane full of money either. :dance:
Technically, he shouldn't be here.
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Re: The Dear Loser comes into his own. (North Korea)

Post by Paingod »

So Kim comes out to meet America's weakest, most ineffective leader ever. I'm sure his plan is to make Trump look like a complete fool.

Sure, I'd love to be surprised - but this is all kinds of strange and broken.
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Re: The Dear Loser comes into his own. (North Korea)

Post by Smoove_B »

Is there an over/under on a military parade - you know, in Trump's honor? Not in any way a cheap ploy to taunt him into forcing the American military to do the same thing?
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Re: The Dear Loser comes into his own. (North Korea)

Post by Grifman »

This is a potentially huge mistake. II am all for diplomacy and talking to the North Koreans as war would be a disaster. But - yu don't have summits like this unless you know you truly have a willing negotiating partner, and/or have an agreement already in place to be signed. Instead he is risking the prestige of the President of the United States on a mission that could be a total and utter failure. For all we know, this could be a ploy for Kim to take a hard line at the meeting so he can proclaim he stood down the leader of the capitalist running dog Americans. If Trump comes away with nothing, then he will have been played by the NK's. I wish him well, I truly do hope this is not a huge mistake.
Last edited by Grifman on Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Dear Loser comes into his own. (North Korea)

Post by Fitzy »

My first thought on hearing this was a brief hope that NK would keep Donald Trump.
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Re: The Dear Loser comes into his own. (North Korea)

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Grifman wrote: Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:26 am This is a potentially huge mistake. II am all for diplomacy and talking to the North Koreans as war would be a disaster. YBut - yu don't have summits like this unless you know you truly have a willing negotiating partner, and/or have an agreement already in place to be signed. Instead he is risking the prestige of the President of the United States on a mission that could be a total and utter failure. For all we know, this could be a ploy for Kim to take a hard line at the meeting so he can proclaim he stood down the leader of the capitalist running dog Americans. If Trump comes away with nothing, then he will have been played by the NK's. I wish him well, I truly do hope this is not a huge mistake.
Trump has already destroyed the prestige of the office so that loss will be nothing. The gain for NK and other similar regimes will be immeasurable though. If Kim has a copy of the Pee tapes I'm pretty certain we will come out of this with the US having agreed to completely dismantle our own nuclear weapons as a gesture of good faith.
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Re: The Dear Loser comes into his own. (North Korea)

Post by Carpet_pissr »

Grifman wrote: Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:26 am the prestige of the President of the United States
Say who what now?

We destroyed the prestige that office had by electing a joke and a despicable person to boot. Prestige obliteration was a self-inflicted wound.
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Re: The Dear Loser comes into his own. (North Korea)

Post by Isgrimnur »

Carpet_pissr wrote: Fri Mar 09, 2018 11:06 am
Grifman wrote: Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:26 am the prestige of the President of the United States
Say who what now?
The office, not the holder.
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Re: The Dear Loser comes into his own. (North Korea)

Post by Carpet_pissr »

Isgrimnur wrote: Fri Mar 09, 2018 11:08 am
Carpet_pissr wrote: Fri Mar 09, 2018 11:06 am
Grifman wrote: Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:26 am the prestige of the President of the United States
Say who what now?
The office, not the holder.
My argument is that the prestige of the office has been seriously diminished by electing the joke that is currently in office.
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Re: The Dear Loser comes into his own. (North Korea)

Post by Isgrimnur »

Carpet_pissr wrote: Fri Mar 09, 2018 11:11 am
Isgrimnur wrote: Fri Mar 09, 2018 11:08 am
Carpet_pissr wrote: Fri Mar 09, 2018 11:06 am
Grifman wrote: Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:26 am the prestige of the President of the United States
Say who what now?
The office, not the holder.
My argument is that the prestige of the office has been seriously diminished by electing the joke that is currently in office.
At the moment, it may be temporary. 2020 will tell if it's permanent.
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Re: The Dear Loser comes into his own. (North Korea)

Post by Ralph-Wiggum »

Of course, Trump doesn't do about 75% of the things he says he'll do, so I would put the odds on Trump actually meeting Kim as pretty slim. It sounds like his decision to agree to meet was (surprise, surprise) off-the-cuff and without input from the State department or other members of the White House. I'm sure there will be plenty of people trying to convince Trump to cancel this meeting over the next few months.
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Re: The Dear Loser comes into his own. (North Korea)

Post by Kraken »

Grifman wrote: Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:26 am This is a potentially huge mistake. II am all for diplomacy and talking to the North Koreans as war would be a disaster. But - yu don't have summits like this unless you know you truly have a willing negotiating partner, and/or have an agreement already in place to be signed. Instead he is risking the prestige of the President of the United States on a mission that could be a total and utter failure. For all we know, this could be a ploy for Kim to take a hard line at the meeting so he can proclaim he stood down the leader of the capitalist running dog Americans. If Trump comes away with nothing, then he will have been played by the NK's. I wish him well, I truly do hope this is not a huge mistake.
US policy on NK has been a failure for decades, arguably ever since the Korean War armistice. Trying something different is not an insane idea, and neither are direct negotiations. Where that breaks down is sending a deranged negotiator. If I had any confidence whatsoever in Trump's diplomatic skills, I'd support this summit's breakthrough potential. Nothing in Trump's history inspires optimism, or anything except anxiety. The only sliver of hope is Trump's natural affinity for dictators -- he and Kim might make a genuine personal connection that interrupts the march to war.
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Re: The Dear Loser comes into his own. (North Korea)

Post by Paingod »

Kraken wrote: Fri Mar 09, 2018 12:59 pmThe only sliver of hope is Trump's natural affinity for dictators -- he and Kim might make a genuine personal connection that interrupts the march to war.
Or they might start yelling at each other and hurl insults. Really, it's anyone's guess.

I'd rather roll d100 on the Wild Surge chart and live with the results.
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Re: The Dear Loser comes into his own. (North Korea)

Post by Isgrimnur »

Paingod wrote: Fri Mar 09, 2018 1:07 pm
Kraken wrote: Fri Mar 09, 2018 12:59 pmThe only sliver of hope is Trump's natural affinity for dictators -- he and Kim might make a genuine personal connection that interrupts the march to war.
Or they might start yelling at each other and hurl insults. Really, it's anyone's guess.

I'd rather roll d100 on the Wild Surge chart and live with the results.
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Re: The Dear Loser comes into his own. (North Korea)

Post by Max Peck »

This is pretty much the end-goal of the long-term North Korean strategy -- treating with the USA as an equal rather than as an inferior sitting on the sidelines while China or Russia does the real negotiating for them. If there's an actual deal to be made, I expect it will involve withdrawal of American forces from the Korean peninsula. I suspect that the Trump administration has been more successful in spooking the South Koreans than it has the North Koreans, given that they'd pay the price in blood for any American military adventurism in the North, so it's possible that Seoul will be willing to make concessions if, say, China provides a security guarantee against North Korean aggression. Pulling South Korea into the Chinese sphere of influence would be quite a coup for Beijing.
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Re: The Dear Loser comes into his own. (North Korea)

Post by Carpet_pissr »

Grifman wrote: Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:26 am This is a potentially huge mistake. II am all for diplomacy and talking to the North Koreans as war would be a disaster. But - yu don't have summits like this unless you know you truly have a willing negotiating partner, and/or have an agreement already in place to be signed. Instead he is risking the prestige of the President of the United States on a mission that could be a total and utter failure. For all we know, this could be a ploy for Kim to take a hard line at the meeting so he can proclaim he stood down the leader of the capitalist running dog Americans. If Trump comes away with nothing, then he will have been played by the NK's. I wish him well, I truly do hope this is not a huge mistake.
Another consideration is that this is right in line with how NK has jerked us around for years. Really the same shit that his father pulled. Rattle the sabre and act crazy so the West will talk to you (i.e. give you stuff to calm down) They agree to some minimal terms, and then break those terms, or don't comply. The only difference this time, is, we've got a WILD CARD, BITCHES!!

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Re: The Dear Loser comes into his own. (North Korea)

Post by Holman »

Max Peck wrote: Fri Mar 09, 2018 1:33 pm This is pretty much the end-goal of the long-term North Korean strategy -- treating with the USA as an equal rather than as an inferior sitting on the sidelines while China or Russia does the real negotiating for them. If there's an actual deal to be made, I expect it will involve withdrawal of American forces from the Korean peninsula. I suspect that the Trump administration has been more successful in spooking the South Koreans than it has the North Koreans, given that they'd pay the price in blood for any American military adventurism in the North, so it's possible that Seoul will be willing to make concessions if, say, China provides a security guarantee against North Korean aggression. Pulling South Korea into the Chinese sphere of influence would be quite a coup for Beijing.
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Re: The Dear Loser comes into his own. (North Korea)

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DPRK New Service has us covered.

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Re: The Dear Loser comes into his own. (North Korea)

Post by em2nought »

South Korea doesn't seem to really want us there anyway so we leave, never to return if Kim gives up nukes. Seems like a win, win. At least if he later invades it's a win for American car companies as Kia has to start making tanks if they survive the initial onslaught. If they don't, no more Kias or Hyundais. All our troops go to our border and build a wall since they're already allocated for. Japan quickly takes over their own defense too probably since they'll be scared to death. No divine wind to save them this time. Worst thing is there will be fewer Korean girls for massage parlors in the US. Chesty Puller might not approve, but it's not like socialists care about war heroes. :ninja:
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Re: The Dear Loser comes into his own. (North Korea)

Post by Zarathud »

Fantasy.
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Re: The Dear Loser comes into his own. (North Korea)

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Healthiest president ever!
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Re: The Dear Loser comes into his own. (North Korea)

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Holman wrote: Fri Mar 09, 2018 3:04 pm
Max Peck wrote: Fri Mar 09, 2018 1:33 pm This is pretty much the end-goal of the long-term North Korean strategy -- treating with the USA as an equal rather than as an inferior sitting on the sidelines while China or Russia does the real negotiating for them. If there's an actual deal to be made, I expect it will involve withdrawal of American forces from the Korean peninsula. I suspect that the Trump administration has been more successful in spooking the South Koreans than it has the North Koreans, given that they'd pay the price in blood for any American military adventurism in the North, so it's possible that Seoul will be willing to make concessions if, say, China provides a security guarantee against North Korean aggression. Pulling South Korea into the Chinese sphere of influence would be quite a coup for Beijing.
You can relax. We've got the world's best deal-maker on the case. It'll be easy!
This will probably be an unpopular opinion, as it's not completely dismissive of Trump, but I suspect he might be a very effective one-on-one negotiator. I've read in multiple places that he is very charismatic in person, he has supreme confidence that he is never wrong, and he clearly has no qualms with lying to get what he wants. I can see that helping him in his business negotiations, where he can use the force of his personality and confidence to get what he wants.

He's been much less effective in the types of political negotiations required to get legislation passed, but I do wonder if he could be effective one-on-one with Kim (who is a bit of a wild card himself). Of course, he might be greatly effective in getting what he thinks is a really good deal done, but it turns out to be more of his idiocy.
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Re: The Dear Loser comes into his own. (North Korea)

Post by Max Peck »

There doesn't seem to be a lot of supporting data, aside from Trump's own propaganda, for the view that he actually is a particularly good deal-maker. At any rate, the sticking point is that what Trump wants, in general, has nothing to do with the best interests of America or the world at large.
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Re: The Dear Loser comes into his own. (North Korea)

Post by ImLawBoy »

Well, he kept getting deals done to build his hotels and properties, even with people who should have known better than to trust him.
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Re: The Dear Loser comes into his own. (North Korea)

Post by Max Peck »

Maybe he'll cut a deal to front the Ryugyong Hotel. :)
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Re: The Dear Loser comes into his own. (North Korea)

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If they let him put his name on it, I wouldn't put it past him.
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