[North Korea] The Dear Loser comes into his own.

Scraper · Post by **Scraper** » Fri Feb 01, 2013 1:04 pm

hepcat wrote:Wow, Shane Smith actually HAS been doing quite a few more travel guides and such. I completely missed them. Here's one on the North Korean film industry.

I think I know what I'm doing tonight...

...and yes, you can all take a crack at filling that in with whatever you'd like.

Researching the history of North Korean Tentacle Porn?

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Tue Feb 12, 2013 12:01 am

Multiple sources are reporting that North Korea just experienced an underground 'quake' at or near one of its nuclear test facilities.

Octavious · Post by **Octavious** » Tue Feb 12, 2013 12:30 am

Seriously this guy is crazier than his dad. Fantastic.

YellowKing · Post by **YellowKing** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 12:19 am

Our stance (well, really the world's stance) towards North Korea reminds me of the parents who tell their screaming brat kids to "Stop doing that" 20 times but never actually discipline them. Sanctions are puppies.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:27 am

YellowKing wrote:Our stance (well, really the world's stance) towards North Korea reminds me of the parents who tell their screaming brat kids to "Stop doing that" 20 times but never actually discipline them. Sanctions are puppies.

Huh. I'm of the opposite opinion. Sanctions are about the only possible action outside of violating their sovereignty. Invading a country is a huge deal and the only reason the US has been able to get away with it is that they've basically picked on countries too weak to oppose them who have no allies willing to support them.

What do you propose should be done with NK? They are sort of on the outs with China but I suspect that relationship would heal right quick if the US took any sort of military action, and the NK military is about the only people who get to eat in that country. They seem to have a standing army of over 1 million (about 4 times Iraq's, although I don't know the quality of their training and gear/armour) and another 3-4 million in reserves (although the quality of these reserves must be pretty awful).

Of course if they are nuclear then things got a whole lot tougher, but things weren't exactly a walk in the park before. I've not done enough reading on this particular threat, but the little I have heard is that everything that could be done was done, short of a full invasion and occupation (which would bankrupt your country right now).

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:32 am

GreenGoo wrote:(which would bankrupt your country right now).

When has that stopped us?

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:38 am

Isgrimnur wrote:
GreenGoo wrote:(which would bankrupt your country right now).
When has that stopped us?

You're not bankrupt. Yet.

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 2:40 am

GreenGoo wrote:
YellowKing wrote:Our stance (well, really the world's stance) towards North Korea reminds me of the parents who tell their screaming brat kids to "Stop doing that" 20 times but never actually discipline them. Sanctions are puppies.
Huh. I'm of the opposite opinion. Sanctions are about the only possible action outside of violating their sovereignty. Invading a country is a huge deal and the only reason the US has been able to get away with it is that they've basically picked on countries too weak to oppose them who have no allies willing to support them.

What do you propose should be done with NK? They are sort of on the outs with China but I suspect that relationship would heal right quick if the US took any sort of military action, and the NK military is about the only people who get to eat in that country. They seem to have a standing army of over 1 million (about 4 times Iraq's, although I don't know the quality of their training and gear/armour) and another 3-4 million in reserves (although the quality of these reserves must be pretty awful).

Of course if they are nuclear then things got a whole lot tougher, but things weren't exactly a walk in the park before. I've not done enough reading on this particular threat, but the little I have heard is that everything that could be done was done, short of a full invasion and occupation (which would bankrupt your country right now).

If they are nuclear?

Have you been asleep for a few years? They have been nuclear for some time. Now they are just working on upping the power and range capabilities to where they can reach us as well as their neighbors.

Out of curiosity, at what point do you think one must go beyond sanctions? When they have tested missles that can reach us? When they try to launch at us? Or not until they actually hit us?

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:41 am

GreenGoo wrote:
Isgrimnur wrote:
GreenGoo wrote:(which would bankrupt your country right now).
When has that stopped us?
You're not bankrupt. Yet.

Nobody wants to take over the basket case that is NK. I say that they are China's problem. We have to go through the diplomatic motions since their rhetoric is aimed our way, but nobody really wants a piece of NK.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:54 am

Rip wrote:
If they are nuclear?

Have you been asleep for a few years?

No, I just mispoke.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:57 am

Kraken wrote:Nobody wants to take over the basket case that is NK. I say that they are China's problem. We have to go through the diplomatic motions since their rhetoric is aimed our way, but nobody really wants a piece of NK.

Read a very short analysis piece on this this morning, and the opinion was identical to yours. They are China's problem, who are attempting to show through economic growth that militarism is not as profitable as just doing business. The trade between both countries has quadrupled over the last 4-5 years.

The bottom line of the piece was that the current status quo with NK is pretty much better and preferable to any other viable option.

Scraper · Post by **Scraper** » Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:22 am

The best option for everyone would be if the NK people finally realized that they are slaves to Dear Loser and rise up against him. The mass starvation, prison camps, crumbling society, etc would have driven other nations to do that a long time ago. Yet they don't do it because of the total control the government has on the people and their fear of what will happen if they speak out. They need their own Arab spring, but it is probably just wishful thinking.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:35 am

Hoping for something better requires that knowledge that something better exists. From what I've seen of NK, the government has the people convinced that things are already as good as they can possibly be, and that any alternative would be far worse.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:48 am

NK's entire GDP is less than 40% of Apple's current cash reserve. Surely they could just buy the place and turn in into a giant iProduct factory-state.

Hell, NK's entire annual public revenue is less than Nvidia's annual revenue.

And don't forget that NK cheats to hit even those numbers.

AWS260 · Post by **AWS260** » Thu Feb 28, 2013 6:47 pm

Kim Jong Un is hosting Dennis Rodman this week.

Grifman · Post by **Grifman** » Fri Mar 01, 2013 1:58 am

AWS260 wrote:Kim Jong Un is hosting Dennis Rodman this week.

And now, they're "friends for life"

Jag · Post by **Jag** » Fri Mar 01, 2013 9:51 am

Grifman wrote:
AWS260 wrote:Kim Jong Un is hosting Dennis Rodman this week.
And now, they're "friends for life"

Which in NK is about 3 weeks.

Scraper · Post by **Scraper** » Fri Mar 01, 2013 11:14 am

Grifman wrote:
AWS260 wrote:Kim Jong Un is hosting Dennis Rodman this week.
And now, they're "friends for life"

I wouldn't criticize Rodman for this. First of all he clearly isn't a politician or even someone regarded as being intelligent. Secondly if his friendliness can show the North Korean people that Americans aren't what NK propaganda says we are then that is a great thing. Heck as goofy as he is, Rodman probably did more for the American image in NK than anyone has done in the past 60 years.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Fri Mar 01, 2013 6:16 pm

Scraper wrote:
Grifman wrote:
AWS260 wrote:Kim Jong Un is hosting Dennis Rodman this week.
And now, they're "friends for life"
I wouldn't criticize Rodman for this. First of all he clearly isn't a politician or even someone regarded as being intelligent. Secondly if his friendliness can show the North Korean people that Americans aren't what NK propaganda says we are then that is a great thing. Heck as goofy as he is, Rodman probably did more for the American image in NK than anyone has done in the past 60 years.

He's being used as a tool for the propaganda machine of a villianous dictator. If you were brutally oppressed, would the basketball star coming to dine, sip Johnnie Walker blue label, and partake in comfort girls with your oppressor really make you sympathetic to the country the basketball star came from?

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Fri Mar 01, 2013 11:16 pm

Seriously. What part of "Evil dictators must be shunned" is Rodman not getting? He's legitimizing the NK regime with his Western celebrity cred.

What's more, Rodman is only doing this to get himself attention. Jerk.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Fri Mar 01, 2013 11:32 pm

Holman wrote:Seriously. What part of "Evil dictators must be shunned" is Rodman not getting? He's legitimizing the NK regime with his Western celebrity cred.

What's more, Rodman is only doing this to get himself attention. Jerk.

Probably, but he wasn't alone.

Rodman travelled to Pyongyang with three members of the professional Harlem Globetrotters basketball team, VICE correspondent Ryan Duffy and a production crew to shoot an episode on North Korea for a new weekly HBO series.

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Fri Mar 01, 2013 11:53 pm

This Rodman fellow is undoubtedly a CIA stooge. Or some kind of stooge, anyway.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Sat Mar 02, 2013 10:40 am

Rodman travelled to Pyongyang with three members of the professional Harlem Globetrotters basketball team, VICE correspondent Ryan Duffy and a production crew to shoot an episode on North Korea for a new weekly HBO series.

Traveling to NK to do media anthropology or some kind of cultural exchange is one thing. Cozying up to its oppressive dictator and declaring him to be your awesome, lovable, Human-Rights-not-violating best friend is another.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Sat Mar 02, 2013 11:44 am

Holman wrote:
Rodman travelled to Pyongyang with three members of the professional Harlem Globetrotters basketball team, VICE correspondent Ryan Duffy and a production crew to shoot an episode on North Korea for a new weekly HBO series.
Traveling to NK to do media anthropology or some kind of cultural exchange is one thing. Cozying up to its oppressive dictator and declaring him to be your awesome, lovable, Human-Rights-not-violating best friend is another.

I don't disagree. I wonder why those harlem globe trotters went too.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Sat Mar 02, 2013 2:08 pm

Until they start behaving like Rodman, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and assume they were trying to do a show and open up a few windows on a shuttered world, plus make some money. There's nothing wrong with that, but it's not the same as making appeals and apologies for the ruler.

Mr Bubbles · Post by **Mr Bubbles** » Sat Mar 02, 2013 4:11 pm

Holman wrote:Seriously. What part of "Evil dictators must be shunned" is Rodman not getting? He's legitimizing the NK regime with his Western celebrity cred.

What's more, Rodman is only doing this to get himself attention. Jerk.

I don't think it's possible to put Rodman and legitimize in the same sentence.

msduncan · Post by **msduncan** » Sun Mar 03, 2013 1:11 pm

Holman wrote:
Rodman travelled to Pyongyang with three members of the professional Harlem Globetrotters basketball team, VICE correspondent Ryan Duffy and a production crew to shoot an episode on North Korea for a new weekly HBO series.
Traveling to NK to do media anthropology or some kind of cultural exchange is one thing. Cozying up to its oppressive dictator and declaring him to be your awesome, lovable, Human-Rights-not-violating best friend is another.

Indeed. I wonder what Rodman would think if three generations of his family were tossed into an internment camp for not paying proper respect to this 'awesome dude'.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Sun Mar 03, 2013 2:35 pm

Pyongyang Jane.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Mon Mar 04, 2013 12:52 pm

The only possiblity for Rodman coming out of this looking good is if the whole Vice junket ends up being a setup up for one of their "this place sucks" episodes. Like if Rodman was just a prop to keep everyone occupied. But I doubt that's the case.

LawBeefaroni wrote:NK's entire GDP is less than 40% of Apple's current cash reserve. Surely they could just buy the place and turn in into a giant iProduct factory-state.

No, really. Apparently loyalty comes cheap. I say we buy out the military leadership.

North Korean Generals Get Cash Cards for Loyalty

North Korea’s regime is distributing special monthly payments in U.S. currency via a cash card system to high-ranking military officers in a bid to maintain loyalty, according to a source inside the country.

The payments can be spent at stores and restaurants equipped with card readers which accept foreign currency, the source told RFA’s Korean Service Wednesday, speaking on condition of anonymity.

“Since last year, North Korean generals in the military have been receiving a U.S. dollar cash cards every month,” said the source, who claims to have wide knowledge of the North Korean military.

“This is Kim Jong Un’s new instruction to guarantee a good lifestyle for the generals,” he said, referring to the country’s young “Supreme Leader” who took power after his father Kim Jong Il’s death in December 2011.

According to the source, four-star generals in the North Korean military receive around U.S. $1,200 each month on their cards, while three-star generals get U.S. $1,000 and two-star generals make U.S. $700. These payments are on top of their monthly salaries.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Mon Mar 04, 2013 2:29 pm

One wonders if China doesn't already own the NK brass.

msduncan · Post by **msduncan** » Tue Mar 05, 2013 5:43 pm

NK is saying today that they will end the Korean Cease Fire on March 10th

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Tue Mar 05, 2013 5:46 pm

If that happens, those DoD cuts will get reversed tout de suite.

AWS260 · Post by **AWS260** » Tue Mar 05, 2013 5:57 pm

msduncan wrote:NK is saying today that they will end the Korean Cease Fire on March 10th

Happy birthday to me!

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Tue Mar 05, 2013 6:07 pm

Didn't they remove the cease fire as a sabre-rattling gesture a few years ago? I thought there was a point under Clinton where we were technically in a (unilateral) shooting war again, although no shots were actually fired.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Tue Mar 05, 2013 6:21 pm

Holman wrote:Didn't they remove the cease fire as a sabre-rattling gesture a few years ago? I thought there was a point under Clinton where we were technically in a (unilateral) shooting war again, although no shots were actually fired.

I recall that they recently shelled some SK islands and killed some soldiers. Technically though, the ceasefire hasn't been removed since it was first instituted.

Here's the shelling, looks like it was in 2010.

Thanks a lot, Rodman.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Tue Mar 05, 2013 6:56 pm

It seems there are a few shots every decade from jittery sentries at the DMZ.

Aside from a couple of naval incidents, the most serious fighting was in 1998, when 14 NK soldiers crossed the line, resulting in a 23-minute exchange of heavy gunfire. [Wikipedia says so, anyway.]

AWS260 · Post by **AWS260** » Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:07 pm

There was also the sinking of a South Korean naval vessel in 2010, which killed quite a few sailors.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:21 am

Well, they've officially ended the armistice, and have apparently cut the phone lines with the south.

I think Kim Jong-un spent too much time listening to Dear Daddy's propaganda.

msduncan · Post by **msduncan** » Mon Mar 11, 2013 11:09 am

The question is:

Is this more posturing, or does Jr. believe what his daddy spouted?

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Mon Mar 11, 2013 11:11 am

Does it really mean anything, though? They actually shoot at each other and kill each other from time to time, like (as AWS notes) the sinking of the South Korean naval vessel, or the artillery exchange more recent than that. I'd think that more of an armistice ending than anything on a peace of paper.

I guess I'm wondering if their behavior will be any different as a result.