Mitt Romney: Bully?

[Defiant]

John Lauber, a soft-spoken new student one year behind Romney, was perpetually teased for his nonconformity and presumed homosexuality. Now he was walking around the all-boys school with bleached-blond hair that draped over one eye, and Romney wasn’t having it.

“He can’t look like that. That’s wrong. Just look at him!” an incensed Romney told Matthew Friedemann, his close friend in the Stevens Hall dorm, according to Friedemann’s recollection. Mitt, the teenaged son of Michigan Gov. George Romney, kept complaining about Lauber’s look, Friedemann recalled.

A few days later, Friedemann entered Stevens Hall off the school’s collegiate quad to find Romney marching out of his own room ahead of a prep school posse shouting about their plan to cut Lauber’s hair. Friedemann followed them to a nearby room where they came upon Lauber, tackled him and pinned him to the ground. As Lauber, his eyes filling with tears, screamed for help, Romney repeatedly clipped his hair with a pair of scissors.

The incident was recalled similarly by five students, who gave their accounts independently of one another.

:evil:

[Holman]

But that was decades ago. Romney has probably flipped that position a dozen times by now.

[Scraper]

But that was decades ago. Romney has probably flipped that position a dozen times by now.

Nice, I'm not sure that can be beat.

[LordMortis]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/05/10/ro ... lassmates/

Attacking your fellow student as a prank was OK because it was a prank and Romney didn't know he was gay.

[Smoove_B]

Dammit, I was hoping he'd use "horseplay" to describe his actions.

[Fireball1244]

Well, this explains why Mitt doesn't do an "It Gets Better" video, I suppose.

What a fucking creep.

[Chrisoc13]

Well, this explains why Mitt doesn't do an "It Gets Better" video, I suppose.

What a fucking creep.

I'm sure everyone here was an absolute saint at the age of 14-17. I would be ashamed if everything I did at that age was trotted out in public and I consider myself a very good person.

[hepcat]

I don't think it's fair to judge someone based on something that happened when they were in their formative years and...

...WAIT A MINUTE! HE WAS MESSING WITH SOMEONE'S HAIR! THAT SON OF A BITCH NEEDS TO DIE!

[Fireball1244]

Well, this explains why Mitt doesn't do an "It Gets Better" video, I suppose.

What a fucking creep.

I'm sure everyone here was an absolute saint at the age of 14-17. I would be ashamed if everything I did at that age was trotted out in public and I consider myself a very good person.

Is it too much to expect that our President be a better man than someone who would have a gang of bullies to pin a terrified, crying gay kid to the floor while the candidate assaulted the kid?

[Chrisoc13]

Is it too much to expect that our President be a better man than someone who would have a gang of bullies to pin a terrified, crying gay kid to the floor while the candidate assaulted the kid?

Look fireball I understand this is a touchy subject for you, I really do. But Mitt already addressed the issue saying he does not even remember it but that he went too far with things in high school so he apologized.

Another important note is the very article being quoted doesn't say the motivation was the kid being gay, but rather his hair not being in-line with school policy. Does that justify it? No, of course not. But to try and slide the attack as being because the kid was gay is a bit ridiculous and is just trying to justify your rage.

John Lauber, a soft-spoken new student one year behind Romney, was perpetually teased for his nonconformity and presumed homosexuality.

Notice it doesn't even say Romney was motivated by his presumed homosexuality. It simply throws it next to it so the reader can assume that is why (and it worked).

Obviously bullying should not be tolerated at any level, but if we are going to hold our presidential candidates to the standard of never having done anything ridiculous when they were teens we will have nobody in office. Your frontal lobe (which has a lot to do with rational decision making processes) is far from developed at the young age of 16 or 17. To call someone a creep for something that happened 48 years ago before their brain had even fully developed is absolutely absurd. To think that this alleged incident will make him a worse candidate for office is about as laughable as the Seamus incident.

The Obama reelection campaign is trying hard to find things to dig up on Romney, but they are coming up with pretty big duds. And before you say President Obama had nothing to do with this story one of the men in the story worked on his election campaign in 2008, and clearly this story broke at just the right time, along with the insinuation of motive for Romney as President Obama's "evolution" (aka flip-flopping) of his stance on gay marriage.

[Fireball1244]

He physically assaulted someone for being different. The man has no business in any elective office.

[LordMortis]

Is it too much to expect that our President be a better man than someone who would have a gang of bullies to pin a terrified, crying kid to the floor while the candidate assaulted the kid?

Fixed

That fact that Romney justifies this sort of assault by being a prank and "not knowing he was gay" is just more offensive.

[silverjon]

I'm aware of the brain research, and I'll cop to making some craptacular decisions as a teen involving personal risk, but I was never ever intentionally cruel to anyone because the idea was personally abhorrent.

My "why would I care what you think?" attitude made me pretty unsatisfying for anyone to bully long-term, but it didn't stop people from trying it on for size. And I bet most of them don't remember it either, and would say they were different people back then. Maybe. I haven't changed much.

[Chrisoc13]

He physically assaulted someone for being different. The man has no business in any elective office.

I have a feeling he wasn't getting your vote anyways so i don't think anyone in his campaign will lose sleep over your pronouncement

Sorry Fireball I know this is sensitive but there is a reason the justice system treats teenagers different from adults, their frontal lobe is not fully developed. I did some stupid, dangerous, reckless, and very insensitive things as a teenager. I am pretty sure most adults can agree with me when they say they look back on some of the things they did as a teenager and shake their heads in disbelief. All we can do is change and become better. When Mitt Romney says he changed a whole lot since then and he is sorry for anything he did in high school to hurt people I can sympathize because I too am a very different person than I was in high school and I feel terrible about some of the stupid things I did to people.

[Chrisoc13]

I'm aware of the brain research, and I'll cop to making some craptacular decisions as a teen involving personal risk, but I was never ever intentionally cruel to anyone because the idea was personally abhorrent.

My "why would I care what you think?" attitude made me pretty unsatisfying for anyone to bully long-term, but it didn't stop people from trying it on for size. And I bet most of them don't remember it either, and would say they were different people back then. Maybe. I haven't changed much.

I would be shocked if you haven't changed, because in my experience most people change drastically after high school. And because the research shows that your brain simply isn't done developing until well into your 20s. So unless you are not out of your mid-20s you probably have changed more than you think, or you are the exception not the rule.

Here is an article discussing frontal lobe development. My wife is a PhD candidate in developmental psychology and her research is heavily related to the development of the child and adolescent brain. In the last few years I have heard countless presentation on the development of the brain, the thought processes of teenagers and honestly teenagers simply do not have a fully developed frontal lobe.
Some exerts from the article:

Jensen says scientists used to think human brain development was pretty complete by age 10. Or as she puts it, that "a teenage brain is just an adult brain with fewer miles on it."
But it's not. To begin with, she says, a crucial part of the brain — the frontal lobes — are not fully connected. Really.
"It's the part of the brain that says: 'Is this a good idea? What is the consequence of this action?' " Jensen says. "It's not that they don't have a frontal lobe. And they can use it. But they're going to access it more slowly."
That's because the nerve cells that connect teenagers' frontal lobes with the rest of their brains are sluggish. Teenagers don't have as much of the fatty coating called myelin, or "white matter," that adults have in this area.
Think of it as insulation on an electrical wire. Nerves need myelin for nerve signals to flow freely. Spotty or thin myelin leads to inefficient communication between one part of the brain and another.

And it isn't just teenagers:

Recent studies show that neural insulation isn't complete until the mid-20s.

I'm sorry but with this in mind unless the person shows a continued practice of bullying throughout their life (and honestly Mitt Romney has 48 years of life since high school where he has given a lot to people) I think you can take what anyone did in high school with a grain of salt. Or really most of college for that matter. It simply is not the same as if they did it now, because they physiologically and mentally are not developed.

[msduncan]

He physically assaulted someone for being different. The man has no business in any elective office.

Obama's close association with Bill Ayers, Louis Farrakhan, and Jeremiah Wright means he has no business in any elective office in my book.

[Combustible Lemur]

He physically assaulted someone for being different. The man has no business in any elective office.

I have a feeling he wasn't getting your vote anyways so i don't think anyone in his campaign will lose sleep over your pronouncement

Sorry Fireball I know this is sensitive but there is a reason the justice system treats teenagers different from adults, their frontal lobe is not fully developed. I did some stupid, dangerous, reckless, and very insensitive things as a teenager. I am pretty sure most adults can agree with me when they say they look back on some of the things they did as a teenager and shake their heads in disbelief. All we can do is change and become better. When Mitt Romney says he changed a whole lot since then and he is sorry for anything he did in high school to hurt people I can sympathize because I too am a very different person than I was in high school and I feel terrible about some of the stupid things I did to people.

And now he wants to take the reigns of a party that official wants to strip people of their civil rights because it's not in line with what they think.

[Isgrimnur]

Looking back on who I was at 21, if I met that person today, I'd want to kick my own ass.

That being said, I never organized a mob to assault another individual before or since.

He physically assaulted someone for being different. The man has no business in any elective office.

Obama's close association with Bill Ayers, Louis Farrakhan, and Jeremiah Wright means he has no business in any elective office in my book.

Can we get an asymptote for all this hyperbole?

[LordMortis]

I'm aware of the brain research, and I'll cop to making some craptacular decisions as a teen involving personal risk, but I was never ever intentionally cruel to anyone because the idea was personally abhorrent.

My "why would I care what you think?" attitude made me pretty unsatisfying for anyone to bully long-term, but it didn't stop people from trying it on for size. And I bet most of them don't remember it either, and would say they were different people back then. Maybe. I haven't changed much.

You yourself have talked many a time about how teenagers haven't developed to the point where they control themselves or understand their actions.

I can almost accept the incident from Romney. The problem is that he was the leader in this assault. He attacked another kid as a demonstration of is his alpha conformist behavior and then to add icing on the cake his apology was a non apology.

Different people draw lines differently I guess. For one person it may a kid committing murder as a kid might disqualify him for the presidency. For another it could be being an adult and cheating on your wife. Attacking another kid for shits and giggles is right at that line for me. The non apology of fifty something year old man is well over it. Character is just too highly in question... Of course, I'm already in the camp of people who won't vote Romney unless something seriously change for the positive. He's just not helping his case is all.

[Chrisoc13]

And now he wants to take the reigns of a party that official wants to strip people of their civil rights because it's not in line with what they think.

Sure you may completely disagree with his and the GOP's political ideology, but that doesn't make him a creep, and it doesn't make it a good idea to judge someone based off what they did in high school.

[LordMortis]

it doesn't make it a good idea to judge someone based off what they did in high school.

Unless they are running for president. Then IMO you judge them based on what they did in high school as part of judging them based on a bunch of stuff. But that's me.

[Fireball1244]

It could be argued that wanting to lead a party that professes the twisted, anti-American ideology of the GOP makes one a creep.

[Chrisoc13]

it doesn't make it a good idea to judge someone based off what they did in high school.

Unless they are running for president. Then IMO you judge them based on what they did in high school as part of judging them based on a bunch of stuff. But that's me.

So those who run for president should somehow have the forethought to have their frontal lobes develop quicker?

[Chrisoc13]

It could be argued that wanting to lead a party that professes the twisted, anti-American ideology of the GOP makes one a creep.

It also could be argued that you are biased on the matter

[silverjon]

I would be shocked if you haven't changed, because in my experience most people change drastically after high school. And because the research shows that your brain simply isn't done developing until well into your 20s. So unless you are not out of your mid-20s you probably have changed more than you think, or you are the exception not the rule.

My mom says I was going on 40 when I was 4. I'm aware that this is weird, and it has regularly positioned me as an outsider, because I didn't tend to view things the same way as my peers, and I would go up against them. And while my understanding of the world has expanded and continues to all the time, my core ethics have been consistent.

I got a popular kid expelled for sexually harassing a classmate, and to shield her and protect her privacy, I couldn't even really explain why, only that he deserved it. I was 14. It was hard, but it was right.

[Fireball1244]

It could be argued that wanting to lead a party that professes the twisted, anti-American ideology of the GOP makes one a creep.

It also could be argued that you are biased on the matter

Yes.

[Smoove_B]

I am pretty sure most adults can agree with me when they say they look back on some of the things they did as a teenager and shake their heads in disbelief.

Like that time you ate dog for dinner?

[hepcat]

Looking back on who I was at 21, if I met that person today, I'd want to kick my own ass.

That being said, I never organized a mob to assault another individual before or since.

He physically assaulted someone for being different. The man has no business in any elective office.

Obama's close association with Bill Ayers, Louis Farrakhan, and Jeremiah Wright means he has no business in any elective office in my book.

Can we get an asymptote for all this hyperbole?

We already have "this post has been MSDUNCANED!" don't we?

[LordMortis]

it doesn't make it a good idea to judge someone based off what they did in high school.

Unless they are running for president. Then IMO you judge them based on what they did in high school as part of judging them based on a bunch of stuff. But that's me.

So those who run for president should somehow have the forethought to have their frontal lobes develop quicker?

Those running for president should consider how they've behaved in the past. If I should not discriminate against presidential who as a teenager tortured another teenager, should I not discriminate against a presidential candidate who as a teenager stole a car or murdered another teenager?

In considering his attack, first he doesn't remember and then second he excuses it as a prank and then third he excuses it because he didn't know the kid he attacked was gay. To me it sounds like he's squirming and he's lying. Like he has developed now and he doesn't care about what a shit he apparently was a teenager and he's letting me know how much he doesn't care.

"I don't remember that incident,"

"I participated in a lot of hijinks and pranks during high school and some may have gone too far. And for that I apologize,"

That's not even feigned remorse for being a stupid and malicious teenager.

[El Guapo]

it doesn't make it a good idea to judge someone based off what they did in high school.

Unless they are running for president. Then IMO you judge them based on what they did in high school as part of judging them based on a bunch of stuff. But that's me.

So those who run for president should somehow have the forethought to have their frontal lobes develop quicker?

I get that he was a teenager, and honestly if I were inclined to vote for him this probably wouldn't stop me (unless it seemed like it was part of a broader pattern, or continued beyond high school, etc.). But that said...while high school kids are idiots, I'm not sure leading an assault on someone and cutting their hair while they are crying to help is really all that common. I'm not sure "undeveloped frontal lobes" is really an adequate excuse, since most high school kids manage to not assault crying peers despite their inadequate lobes (and now I'm picturing Quark saying this line).

[silverjon]

You yourself have talked many a time about how teenagers haven't developed to the point where they control themselves or understand their actions.

Yup, like I said I'm totally aware of it. But I do make some distinctions between behaviors that are dangerous and cruel. Yes, inability to process probable consequences figures into teen behavior, but if you're whaling on somebody who's cowering and crying, the actual consequences are staring you in the face.

There's risk, and then there's right and wrong. Those are two different spectrums on which to assess your own behavior. Even little kids can develop a sense of justice.

[LawBeefaroni]

But Mitt already addressed the issue saying he does not even remember it but that he went too far with things in high school so he apologized.

That's kind of the problem. I suppose if holding down kids and cutting their hair against their will is common enough practice it can be easily forgotten. It would stick with me though.

We've all done dumb stuff. I've done stuff I regret. I haven't forgotten it and that's why it's important, I learned from it. Stuff you do and then forget, that doesn't teach you anything.


Nonetheless it doesn't have much bearing on his qualifications for the job in my opinion. It does, however, add to my image of him as a Fortunate Son type who grew into an out-of-touch member of the privileged elite. Bullying some kid in high school is just a bit of supporting evidence for the whole picture.

[Holman]

With this kind of episode, the point isn't what the candidate did in the distant past but how he deals with being reminded of it now. I think Mitt passed this test about as well as anyone could, albeit in the blandest, most boring possible way. Bill Clinton or George W. Bush could disavow youthful errors with a lot more flair than this.

[Chrisoc13]

"I don't remember that incident,"

"I participated in a lot of hijinks and pranks during high school and some may have gone too far. And for that I apologize,"

That's not even feigned remorse for being a stupid and malicious teenager.

Or on the other hand he could be telling the truth. Maybe he doesn't remember the alleged incident. You will see here what you want to see. You see a liar squirming, I see someone who has changed a great deal since then but someone who has already dealt with his past perhaps even personally apologizing to people he remembers he hurt now having to apologize en mass in public because is running for office. Our perception of Mitt Romney clouds our judgement of the situation just like it does for every politician.

I get that he was a teenager, and honestly if I were inclined to vote for him this probably wouldn't stop me (unless it seemed like it was part of a broader pattern, or continued beyond high school, etc.). But that said...while high school kids are idiots, I'm not sure leading an assault on someone and cutting their hair while they are crying to help is really all that common. I'm not sure "undeveloped frontal lobes" is really an adequate excuse, since most high school kids manage to not assault crying peers despite their inadequate lobes (and now I'm picturing Quark saying this line).

I think it is more common than people think. Maybe not physical assault, but plenty of high school kids cry because verbal and emotional assault which can be just as devastating on the bullied child. Now with cyberbullying it is actually reaching new levels of problems. This alleged incident was physical bullying, and downright sad too, but sadly bullying in our high schools now is much deeper than this and can be every bit as scarring.

[LordMortis]

Or on the other hand he could be telling the truth. Maybe he doesn't remember the alleged incident.

That's not comforting to me.

[Ænima]

"I don't remember that incident,"

"I participated in a lot of hijinks and pranks during high school and some may have gone too far. And for that I apologize,"

That's not even feigned remorse for being a stupid and malicious teenager.

Or on the other hand he could be telling the truth. Maybe he doesn't remember the alleged incident. You will see here what you want to see. You see a liar squirming, I see someone who has changed a great deal since then but someone who has already dealt with his past perhaps even personally apologizing to people he remembers he hurt now having to apologize en mass in public because is running for office. Our perception of Mitt Romney clouds our judgement of the situation just like it does for every politician.

I could also be argued that you are biased on the matter .

[Combustible Lemur]

And now he wants to take the reigns of a party that official wants to strip people of their civil rights because it's not in line with what they think.

Sure you may completely disagree with his and the GOP's political ideology, but that doesn't make him a creep, and it doesn't make it a good idea to judge someone based off what they did in high school.

Yes and no. I'm with Izzy, I would be sorely tempted to whoop my teenage ass. However I never gang assaulted anyone, and that kind of thing would have really pissed me off. That kind of thing would normally get a kid arrested.
Boys will be boys went out like forty years ago... Oh wait.... Sigh.

Sent from mah Incredible'

[Jag]

I did some really fucked up things as a teenager, but I never intentionally hurt someone and definitely never used a gang to physically assault someone because they were different. I just wasn't raised that way. Maybe Mitt was.

I call bullshit on his 'inability' to remember it and it ABSOLUTELY says something about his character. Which is unfortunate because I'm no Obama fan either.

[LawBeefaroni]

I call bullshit on his 'inability' to remember it and it ABSOLUTELY says something about his character. Which is unfortunate because I'm no Obama fan either.

I'd be willing to bet that if the guy instead claimed that Romney climbed on top of him and started dry-humping him, Mitt would correct him with stunningly vivid recollections of the actual hair-cutting.

[hepcat]

can we get off the violent hair cutting? i'm not gonna be able to sleep for weeks as it is.