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I am so thankful for the first amendment

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LordMortis
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I am so thankful for the first amendment

Post by LordMortis » Fri Aug 17, 2012 9:31 am

http://www.chron.com/news/article/Pussy ... 794967.php" target="_blank
MOSCOW (AP) — A judge found three members of the provocative punk band Pussy Riot guilty of hooliganism on Friday, in a case that has drawn widespread international condemnation as an emblem of Russia's intolerance of dissent.

The judge said the three band members "committed hooliganism driven by religious hatred" and offended religious believers. The three were arrested in March after a guerrilla performance in Moscow's main cathedral calling for the Virgin Mary to protect Russia against Vladimir Putin, who was elected to a new term as Russia's president two weeks later.

Nadezhda Tolokonnikova, 23; Maria Alekhina, 24; and Yekaterina Samutsevich, 29, face a maximum seven years in prison, although the prosecutors asked for a three-year sentence. They stood in a glass cage in the courtroom, sad smiles sometimes flickering on their lips, as the judge read out the testimony of prosecution witnesses accusing them of sacrilege and "devilish dances" in church.

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Re: I am so thankful for the first amendment

Post by El Guapo » Fri Aug 17, 2012 9:36 am

Also for the general lack of a police state.

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Re: I am so thankful for the first amendment

Post by $iljanus » Fri Aug 17, 2012 9:43 am

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Re: I am so thankful for the first amendment

Post by Anonymous Bosch » Fri Aug 17, 2012 10:03 am

I'm guessing they were actually arrested due to the dulcet tones of their incredibly Cartman-esque singer.
"Good intentions will always be pleaded for every assumption of authority. It is hardly too strong to say that the Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters." -- Daniel Webster

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Re: I am so thankful for the first amendment

Post by Jag » Fri Aug 17, 2012 10:08 am

El Guapo wrote:Also for the general lack of a police state.
I wish that were true.

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Re: I am so thankful for the first amendment

Post by El Guapo » Fri Aug 17, 2012 10:10 am

Jag wrote:
El Guapo wrote:Also for the general lack of a police state.
I wish that were true.
:roll:

Police abuses /= police state

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Re: I am so thankful for the first amendment

Post by Kurth » Fri Aug 17, 2012 10:27 am

You could not pay me enough to live in Russia today. Between this and what's been done to the press over there . . . what a horrible situation.

I still think about the savage beating of journalist Oleg Kashin in 2010:

http://youtu.be/d9VTjlNiAQQ

Amazing he survived, but here he is in March, 2012, still speaking up:

http://youtu.be/ulIYVd_0W2U

IMHO, that's a hero.
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Re: I am so thankful for the first amendment

Post by Jag » Fri Aug 17, 2012 10:29 am

El Guapo wrote:
Jag wrote:
El Guapo wrote:Also for the general lack of a police state.
I wish that were true.
:roll:

Police abuses /= police state
/ is a very fine line. Unchecked police authority, militarization of local police forces and degradation of personal rights are all happening now.

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Re: I am so thankful for the first amendment

Post by Tareeq » Fri Aug 17, 2012 10:33 am

You could not pay me enough to live in Russia today. Between this and what's been done to the press over there . . . what a horrible situation.
Perspective, please.
Over here.

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Re: I am so thankful for the first amendment

Post by Jaymann » Fri Aug 17, 2012 10:36 am

Yes the First Amendment is alive and well in Free Speech Zones where the tin foil hat crowd congregates for an assured audience.
The most prominent examples were those created by the United States Secret Service for President George W. Bush and other members of his administration.[3] Free speech zones existed in limited forms prior to the Presidency of George W. Bush; it was during Bush's presidency that their scope has been greatly expanded.
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Re: I am so thankful for the first amendment

Post by LordMortis » Fri Aug 17, 2012 10:39 am

Jaymann wrote:Yes the First Amendment is alive and well in Free Speech Zones where the tin foil hat crowd congregates for an assured audience.
The most prominent examples were those created by the United States Secret Service for President George W. Bush and other members of his administration.[3] Free speech zones existed in limited forms prior to the Presidency of George W. Bush; it was during Bush's presidency that their scope has been greatly expanded.
I didn't say I was thankful for abuses against the first amendment nor of parts of a contemporary federal government that are trying erode it.

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Re: I am so thankful for the first amendment

Post by Isgrimnur » Fri Aug 17, 2012 10:41 am

The first amendment gives you the right to say what you like. It doesn't mean the government has to allow you their venues to do so or permit you to disrupt other people's events.

I'm not a fan of enforcing holding pens, but the government does have a right to conduct its business without being descended upon by disruptive hordes.
Last edited by Isgrimnur on Fri Aug 17, 2012 10:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: I am so thankful for the first amendment

Post by YellowKing » Fri Aug 17, 2012 10:41 am

I would just like to be in court watching the judge say "hooliganism" repeatedly.

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Re: I am so thankful for the first amendment

Post by LordMortis » Fri Aug 17, 2012 10:50 am

Isgrimnur wrote:The first amendment gives you the right to say what you like. It doesn't mean the government has to allow you their venues to do so or permit you to disrupt other people's events.

I'm not a fan of enforcing holding pens, but the government does have a right to conduct its business without being descended upon by disruptive hordes.
I'd concur. I get that it was "guerrilla" performance and I get that they should be willing to pay a price but the price they have already paid (five months of imprisonment while on trial) is too high IMO much less the likely price of three years or the possible price of 7 years. And I believe the price is being paid for their political speech more so than their trespass performance in a church.

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Re: I am so thankful for the first amendment

Post by RLMullen » Fri Aug 17, 2012 10:56 am

Isgrimnur wrote:The first amendment gives you the right to say what you like. It doesn't mean the government has to allow you their venues to do so or permit you to disrupt other people's events.

I'm not a fan of enforcing holding pens, but the government does have a right to conduct its business without being descended upon by disruptive hordes.
In other words, the government has a right to be free of hooliganism.

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Re: I am so thankful for the first amendment

Post by RLMullen » Fri Aug 17, 2012 11:02 am

El Guapo wrote:
Jag wrote:
El Guapo wrote:Also for the general lack of a police state.
I wish that were true.
:roll:

Police abuses /= police state
You are right that there is no equivalence. Pussy Riot got due process; the Franco family didn't.

:roll: indeed!

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Re: I am so thankful for the first amendment

Post by Isgrimnur » Fri Aug 17, 2012 11:03 am

RLMullen wrote:
Isgrimnur wrote:The first amendment gives you the right to say what you like. It doesn't mean the government has to allow you their venues to do so or permit you to disrupt other people's events.

I'm not a fan of enforcing holding pens, but the government does have a right to conduct its business without being descended upon by disruptive hordes.
In other words, the government has a right to be free of hooliganism.
Well said.
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Re: I am so thankful for the first amendment

Post by Anonymous Bosch » Fri Aug 17, 2012 11:03 am

LordMortis wrote:
Isgrimnur wrote:The first amendment gives you the right to say what you like. It doesn't mean the government has to allow you their venues to do so or permit you to disrupt other people's events.

I'm not a fan of enforcing holding pens, but the government does have a right to conduct its business without being descended upon by disruptive hordes.
I'd concur. I get that it was "guerrilla" performance and I get that they should be willing to pay a price but the price they have already paid (five months of imprisonment while on trial) is too high IMO much less the likely price of three years or the possible price of 7 years. And I believe the price is being paid for their political speech more so than their trespass performance in a church.
Have you listened to their performance? In fairness to Putin and the corrupt Russian Orthodox Church they were rightly condemning in their song, hearing Cartman sing is a wee bit blasphemous to the eardrums. :wink:
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Re: I am so thankful for the first amendment

Post by GreenGoo » Fri Aug 17, 2012 11:06 am

They're a punk band, just as a reminder. Unless things have changed since I was a kid, having a good voice would automatically eject them from the genre.

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Re: I am so thankful for the first amendment

Post by Kurth » Fri Aug 17, 2012 11:11 am

Tareeq wrote:
You could not pay me enough to live in Russia today. Between this and what's been done to the press over there . . . what a horrible situation.
Perspective, please.
Seriously? Did you watch the Kashin video? Do you know how common that kind of thuggery is and how often it is state-sanctioned? I'm not sure what kind of perspective you are looking for. My perspective is that I very much value that in the U.S., for all its many faults, beating and intimidating journalists (and lawyers and judges) is not SOP. I don't hold myself out as an authority on Russia by any means, but from what I've heard, that's becoming the case over there. I think it's a shame.
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Re: I am so thankful for the first amendment

Post by Blackhawk » Fri Aug 17, 2012 11:39 am

GreenGoo wrote:They're a punk band, just as a reminder. Unless things have changed since I was a kid, having a good voice would automatically eject them from the genre.
Not to mention that a high pitched, nasally voice doesn't seem uncommon in modern Russian music. We're not just talking about a different kind of music, we're talking about a different culture with different tastes.
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Re: I am so thankful for the first amendment

Post by Tareeq » Fri Aug 17, 2012 12:43 pm

Kurth wrote:Seriously? Did you watch the Kashin video? Do you know how common that kind of thuggery is and how often it is state-sanctioned? I'm not sure what kind of perspective you are looking for. My perspective is that I very much value that in the U.S., for all its many faults, beating and intimidating journalists (and lawyers and judges) is not SOP. I don't hold myself out as an authority on Russia by any means, but from what I've heard, that's becoming the case over there. I think it's a shame.
I didn't watch the video, but I'm aware of Kashin's case.

I lived in Russia for a while when it was still run by communists. I've visited the country within the past five years. I agree that Putin's government leaves much to be desired, but your apocalyptic pronouncement about this merely authoritarian and corrupt government demonstrates a lack of perspective.

For instance, under Brezhnev these young women would have been confined to a mental institution, in which they'd have been drugged, raped, and beaten. Under Stalin, they'd have been shot, and their families sent to the White Sea Canal. Under the last Tsar, they'd have been shot. Under earlier Tsars, they'd have been beaten with a knout, a hooked rawhide whip which dug large chunks of flesh out of its victims' bodies, and their noses would have been amputated.

Perspective.
Over here.

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Re: I am so thankful for the first amendment

Post by El Guapo » Fri Aug 17, 2012 12:53 pm

Jag wrote:
El Guapo wrote:
Jag wrote:
El Guapo wrote:Also for the general lack of a police state.
I wish that were true.
:roll:

Police abuses /= police state
/ is a very fine line. Unchecked police authority, militarization of local police forces and degradation of personal rights are all happening now.
Oh, the militarization of local police is absolutely a very serious and worrisome concern. Guantanamo and the threat it poses to civil liberties is serious.

BUT that does not make the United States a police state, or anything close to it. It means that the United States is an open democracy where authorities sometimes abuse their power, sometimes quite seriously. To call the U.S. a police state, though, dumbs down the term to the point of meaninglessness. After all, if the U.S. is a police state, then what exactly is North Korea?
Amnesty International has published satellite imagery and new testimony that shed light on the horrific conditions in North Korea’s network of political prison camps, which hold an estimated 200,000 people.

The images reveal the location, size and conditions inside the camps. Amnesty International spoke to a number of people, including former inmates from the political prison camp at Yodok as well as guards in other political prison camps, to obtain information about life in the camps.

According to former detainees at the political prison camp at Yodok, prisoners are forced to work in conditions approaching slavery and are frequently subjected to torture and other cruel, inhumane, and degrading treatment. All the detainees at Yodok have witnessed public executions.

“North Korea can no longer deny the undeniable. For decades the authorities have refused to admit to the existence of mass political prison camps,” said Sam Zarifi, Amnesty International Asia Pacific Director.

“These are places out of sight of the rest of the world, where almost the entire range of human rights protections that international law has tried to set up for last 60 years are ignored.”

“As North Korea seems to be moving towards a new leader in Kim Jong-un and a period of political instability, the big worry is that the prison camps appear to be growing in size.”

Amnesty International believes the camps have been in operation since the 1950s, yet only three people are ever known to have escaped Total Control Zones and managed to leave North Korea. About 30 are known to have been released from the Revolutionary Zone at Political Prison Camp in Yodok and managed to leave North Korea. According to the testimony of a former detainee at the revolutionary zone in the political prison camp at Yodok, an estimated 40 per cent of inmates died from malnutrition .between 1999 and 2001.

Satellite images show four of the six camps occupying huge areas of land and located in vast wilderness sites in South Pyongan, South Hamkyung and North Hamkyung provinces, and producing products ranging from soy bean paste and sweets to coal and cement.

A comparison of the latest images with satellite imagery from 2001 indicates a significant increase in the scale of the camps.

In just one camp, Kwanliso 15 at Yodok, thousands of people are believed to be held as "guilty-by-association" or sent to the camps simply because one of their relatives has been detained.

The majority of prisoners, including some of those ‘guilty-by-association’, are held in areas known as ‘Total Control Zones’ from which they will never be released.

A significant proportion of those sent to the camps don’t even know what crimes they’re accused of.

Amnesty International spoke to former detainees of the political prison camp known as Kwanliso 15 at Yodok.

A former inmate, Kim, told Amnesty International: “Everyone in Kwanliso witnessed executions. When I was an inmate in Kwanliso15 at Yodok, all those who tried to escape were caught. They were interrogated for two to three months and then executed.”

Jeong Kyoungil was first arrested in 1999 and detained in Yodok from 2000-2003. Amnesty International interviewed Jeong in Seoul in April 2011.

“A room around 50m² in size, is where the 30 or 40 political prisoners sleep in. We sleep on some sort of bed made out of a wooden board with a blanket to cover. A day starts at 4am with an early shift, also called the ‘pre-meal shift’, until 7am. Then breakfast from 7am to 8am but the meal is only 200g of poorly prepared corn gruel for each meal. Then there is a morning shift from 8am to 12pm and a lunch until 1pm. Then work again from 1pm to 8pm and dinner from 8pm to 9pm. From 9pm to 11pm, it’s time for ideology education. If we don’t memorize the ten codes of ethics we would not be allowed to sleep. This is the daily schedule.”

“200g of poorly prepared corn gruel in a bowl would only be given if we finish our daily tasks. If not, we would not be given any food. The daily task is sweeping off overgrown weeds on fields. Everyone would be assigned to 1157 m² of field and only the people who finish off their task would be given food. If you only finish half of your assigned task, you would only be given half of your food.”

“Seeing people die happened frequently – every day. Frankly, unlike in a normal society, we would like it rather than feel sad because if you bring a dead body and bury it, you would be given another bowl of food. I used to take charge of burying dead people’s bodies. When an officer told me to, I gathered some people and buried the bodies. After receiving extra food for the job, we felt glad rather than feeling sad.”

The North Korean authorities are also known to use a cube ‘torture cell’, where it is impossible to either stand or lie down. "Disruptive inmates" are thrown in for at least one week, but Amnesty International is aware of one case of a child thrown into the cell for eight months.

In most of the camps, no clothing is provided and prisoners face harsh winters. Inmates are also expected to work long hours undertaking strenuous and often pointless manual labour.

Food in the camps is scarce. Amnesty International has been told of several accounts of people eating rats or picking corn kernels out of animal waste purely to survive, despite the risks – anyone caught risks solitary confinement or other torture.

“Hundreds of thousands of people exist with virtually no rights, treated essentially as slaves, in some of the worst circumstances we’ve documented in the last 50 years,” said Sam Zarifi.

“Conditions in these camps are inhuman and Kim Jong-il must close them immediately.”

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Re: I am so thankful for the first amendment

Post by Jag » Fri Aug 17, 2012 1:31 pm

El Guapo wrote:After all, if the U.S. is a police state, then what exactly is North Korea?
An absolute dictatorship.

Also, I don't really believe the US is a police state, but I do believe that the factors I listed above are leading us that way and that it will get much worse before it gets better, if at all.

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Re: I am so thankful for the first amendment

Post by LordMortis » Fri Aug 17, 2012 1:49 pm

I get the legit fears about where the US is going with regards to moving the wrong way on police state like continuum.

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-112s ... 867pcs.pdf" target="_blank
3 SEC. 1032. REQUIREMENT FOR MILITARY CUSTODY.
4 (a) CUSTODY PENDING DISPOSITION UNDER LAW OF
5 WAR.—
6 (1) IN GENERAL.—Except as provided in para7
graph (4), the Armed Forces of the United States
8 shall hold a person described in paragraph (2) who
9 is captured in the course of hostilities authorized by
10 the Authorization for Use of Military Force (Public
11 Law 107–40) in military custody pending disposition
12 under the law of war.
13 (2) COVERED PERSONS.—The requirement in
14 paragraph (1) shall apply to any person whose de15
tention is authorized under section 1031 who is de16
termined—
17 (A) to be a member of, or part of, al-
18 Qaeda or an associated force that acts in co19
ordination with or pursuant to the direction of
20 al-Qaeda; and
21 (B) to have participated in the course of
22 planning or carrying out an attack or attempted
23 attack against the United States or its coalition
24 partners.
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/20 ... -citizens/" target="_blank
“The president strongly believes that to detain American citizens in military custody infinitely without trial, would be a break with our traditions and values as a nation, and wants to make sure that any type of authorization coming from congress, complies with our Constitution, our rules of war and any applicable laws.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sixth_Amen ... nstitution" target="_blank
In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.[note 1][1]

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Re: I am so thankful for the first amendment

Post by Tareeq » Fri Aug 17, 2012 4:40 pm

Jag wrote:
El Guapo wrote:After all, if the U.S. is a police state, then what exactly is North Korea?
An absolute dictatorship.
Oligarchical collectivism would be a better term.
Over here.


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Re: I am so thankful for the first amendment

Post by El Guapo » Fri Aug 17, 2012 9:15 pm

Grundbegriff wrote:Kasparov arrested en passant.
Nice.

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Re: I am so thankful for the first amendment

Post by Isgrimnur » Fri Aug 31, 2012 11:26 am

Emboldened Orthodox Christian extremists storm sex museum:
a handful of conservative, Russian Orthodox activists staged a series of audacious attacks on liberal Muscovites this week, all of them amply documented online.

As the news site Gazeta.ru reported the young culture warriors barged into a sex museum in the Russian capital late Tuesday night and left a brick and a threatening message for the staff. lexander Donskoy, the director of The G-Spot Museum of Erotic Art, said that he had identified the activists “through their accounts on social networks” and by viewing online video of the self-styled defenders of the Russian Orthodox faith harassing supporters of Pussy Riot in recent weeks.
...
The Russian news agency Interfax reported that the sex museum’s director, Mr. Donskoy, is a former politician who “announced the creation of his Party of Love,” earlier this year “by holding a demonstration in support of Pussy Riot in which party activists swam in a fountain at the GUM shopping center next to Red Square.”

In a comment on the museum raid posted on his VKontakte page, along with an image of the activists wielding a bible before a giant statue of a penis, Mr. Donskoy wrote: Nobody has the right to impose their will, threatening people’s lives. Today Orthodox militants punish us for supporting Pussy Riot, threatening our lives and tearing clothes off simple passers-by, and tomorrow they’ll go raid churches of other confessions and stab atheists. It is pure extremism.”

The night before that stunt, Mr. Tsorionov and Mr. Kaplin had stormed into a Moscow theater during the performance of a “documentary” play about the Pussy Riot trial, shouting “Repent!” and “Why do you hate the Russian people?” at the band’s lawyers, supporters and family who were gathered on stage.
...
Mr. Tsorionov and his fellow activists are quite capable of documenting their own stunts. One video clip posted online this week shows Mr. Tsorionov running up to a man at a Moscow trains station and ripping a Pussy Riot T-shirt off his back.

Mr. Tsorionov also stars in another, longer clip of a confrontation with Pussy Riot supporters which took place this month on the day that three members of the band were jailed for staging a protest inside a Moscow cathedral on the eve of Russia’s presidential election in February. In that video, the Orthodox vigilantes can be seen demanding that a supporter of the band remove a T-shirt that quoted a lyric of the band’s song, “Mother of God, drive Putin out!”
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Re: I am so thankful for the first amendment

Post by LawBeefaroni » Fri Aug 31, 2012 11:35 am

Isgrimnur wrote:Emboldened Orthodox Christian extremists storm sex museum:


As the news site Gazeta.ru reported the young culture warriors barged into a sex museum in the Russian capital late Tuesday night and left a brick and a threatening message for the staff.
Do they not understand the point of attaching a message to a brick? :?
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Re: I am so thankful for the first amendment

Post by hepcat » Fri Aug 31, 2012 11:40 am

Isgrimnur wrote:
As the news site Gazeta.ru reported the young culture warriors barged into a sex museum in the Russian capital late Tuesday night and left a brick and a threatening message for the staff.
:lol: In an old episode of the Newhart Show, the handyman related the story about his days in a "gang" in upstate Vermont. Their calling card was a "brick through an open window". In a later scene, a hand gently opened a window and then quietly placed a brick with a message tied to it on an end table. I kept seeing this when I read this.
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Re: I am so thankful for the first amendment

Post by silverjon » Fri Aug 31, 2012 11:57 am

http://www.flurtsite.com/2012/08/madonn ... d-a-whore/" target="_blank

Interesting whether or not you care what celebrities think about politics and social issues.
wot?

To be fair, adolescent power fantasy tripe is way easier to write than absurd existential horror, and every community has got to start somewhere... right?

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Re: I am so thankful for the first amendment

Post by hepcat » Fri Aug 31, 2012 12:35 pm

If beating kittens was the headline that day, Madonna would've been flinging felines into the audience overhand that night.

Image

P.S. I know that's madonna in the first image, but who's that dude in the second one? :?
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Re: I am so thankful for the first amendment

Post by Blackhawk » Fri Aug 31, 2012 1:29 pm

Is that some sort of spinal vagina?
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Unagi
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Re: I am so thankful for the first amendment

Post by Unagi » Fri Aug 31, 2012 9:58 pm

Blackhawk wrote:Is that some sort of spinal vagina?
:lol:

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Exodor
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Re: I am so thankful for the first amendment

Post by Exodor » Fri Sep 07, 2012 4:02 pm

I don't want to make a whole new thread and this deals with the first amendment so...

NFL Punter Chris Kluwe defends a Baltimore Raven's right to say what he thinks about gay marriage...
2. "Many of your fans are opposed to such a view and feel it has no place in a sport that is strictly for pride, entertainment, and excitement." Holy fucking shitballs. Did you seriously just say that, as someone who's "deeply involved in government task forces on the legacy of slavery in Maryland"? Have you not heard of Kenny Washington? Jackie Robinson? As recently as 1962 the NFL still had segregation, which was only done away with by brave athletes and coaches daring to speak their mind and do the right thing, and you're going to say that political views have "no place in a sport"? I can't even begin to fathom the cognitive dissonance that must be coursing through your rapidly addled mind right now; the mental gymnastics your brain has to tortuously contort itself through to make such a preposterous statement are surely worthy of an Olympic gold medal (the Russian judge gives you a 10 for "beautiful oppressionism").

Kluwe would be the best if only because he's a NFL player (well, a punter but still) who openly plays WoW and GW2. This just makes him ever more bester.

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silverjon
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Re: I am so thankful for the first amendment

Post by silverjon » Fri Sep 07, 2012 4:05 pm

Awesome.
wot?

To be fair, adolescent power fantasy tripe is way easier to write than absurd existential horror, and every community has got to start somewhere... right?

Unless one loses a precious thing, he will never know its true value. A little light finally scratches the darkness; it lets the exhausted one face his shattered dream and realize his path cannot be walked. Can man live happily without embracing his wounded heart?

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LawBeefaroni
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Re: I am so thankful for the first amendment

Post by LawBeefaroni » Fri Sep 07, 2012 4:50 pm

Damn!

I find it inconceivable that you are an elected official of Maryland's state government. Your vitriolic hatred and bigotry make me ashamed and disgusted to think that you are in any way responsible for shaping policy at any level. The views you espouse neglect to consider several fundamental key points, which I will outline in great detail (you may want to hire an intern to help you with the longer words):
" Hey OP, listen to my advice alright." -Tha General
"No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton

MYT

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Exodor
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Re: I am so thankful for the first amendment

Post by Exodor » Fri Sep 07, 2012 5:59 pm

If you're not following Chris Kluwe on Twitter, well, you should be
Chris Kluwe ‏@ChrisWarcraft
Also I'll be on MSNBC tonight around 8est on the Ed Schultz Show. My guess is we talk about secrets to successful tabletop miniature gaming.
:lol:

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hentzau
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Re: I am so thankful for the first amendment

Post by hentzau » Sat Sep 08, 2012 12:49 am

Exodor wrote:If you're not following Chris Kluwe on Twitter, well, you should be
Chris Kluwe ‏@ChrisWarcraft
Also I'll be on MSNBC tonight around 8est on the Ed Schultz Show. My guess is we talk about secrets to successful tabletop miniature gaming.
:lol:
:lol:
"Women are naturally secretive, and they like to do their own secreting." - Sherlock Holmes, A Scandal in Bohemia

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