Grifman wrote:It has been noted in another thread (thought it really belongs here) that Trump is considering starting his own political party, the "Patriot Party". I think it's all bluster. He's got a ton of money from his election "fraud" fundraising but he's just too lazy to do this. Starting a new party would be an enormous amount of work, which he won't do. In addition, I doubt that he could find really good savvy professionals to do the work for him, letting him be the figurehead. He really can't attract good talent, as taking a job from Trump would be burning your bridges back to the Republican Party.
That said, I'd love to see him try. I'd love to see Trumpublicans such as Gomer, Gaetz, Hawley, Brooks, Turbeville, etc being put in the tough position of deciding whether they are truly Republicans or Trumpers. The infighting would be marvelous.
I’d love to see this happen as well. I always considered myself an Independent but I have voted for plenty of Republicans in the past. With the way the party got behind Trump and his lies they don’t deserve to exist in their current state.
Grifman wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 6:18 pm
It has been noted in another thread (thought it really belongs here) that Trump is considering starting his own political party, the "Patriot Party". I think it's all bluster. He's got a ton of money from his election "fraud" fundraising but he's just too lazy to do this. Starting a new party would be an enormous amount of work, which he won't do. In addition, I doubt that he could find really good savvy professionals to do the work for him, letting him be the figurehead. He really can't attract good talent, as taking a job from Trump would be burning your bridges back to the Republican Party.
That said, I'd love to see him try. I'd love to see Trumpublicans such as Gomer, Gaetz, Hawley, Brooks, Turbeville, etc being put in the tough position of deciding whether they are truly Republicans or Trumpers. The infighting would be marvelous.
I agree it's bluster but think this is something he actually is good at. It is market testing. He is floating an idea that everyone with half-a-brain knows isn't going to happen. Unfortunately the base is frankly full of idiots, morons, and people he can lead around by the nose. He is hoping he gets a response. If he doesn't...it'll go away. If he gets a response then it becomes an implied threat. "Hey I'm going to float a new party because you guys didn't support me. These guys really love the idea of a 'Riot party and I'd hate to see something happen to *your party*."
He's trying to make elephants think twice about voting for impeachment, which would prevent him from running for president. Will the threat work? This new party of his needs another figurehead in the wings that makes the party nervous, is there anyone? I expect the elephants will respond to this threat by convicting him.
Grifman wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 6:18 pm
It has been noted in another thread (thought it really belongs here) that Trump is considering starting his own political party, the "Patriot Party". I think it's all bluster. He's got a ton of money from his election "fraud" fundraising but he's just too lazy to do this. Starting a new party would be an enormous amount of work, which he won't do. In addition, I doubt that he could find really good savvy professionals to do the work for him, letting him be the figurehead. He really can't attract good talent, as taking a job from Trump would be burning your bridges back to the Republican Party.
That said, I'd love to see him try. I'd love to see Trumpublicans such as Gomer, Gaetz, Hawley, Brooks, Turbeville, etc being put in the tough position of deciding whether they are truly Republicans or Trumpers. The infighting would be marvelous.
I agree it's bluster but think this is something he actually is good at. It is market testing. He is floating an idea that everyone with half-a-brain knows isn't going to happen. Unfortunately the base is frankly full of idiots, morons, and people he can lead around by the nose. He is hoping he gets a response. If he doesn't...it'll go away. If he gets a response then it becomes an implied threat. "Hey I'm going to float a new party because you guys didn't support me. These guys really love the idea of a 'Riot party and I'd hate to see something happen to *your party*."
Also, he will be needing funds. These people will be the ones donating to his grift , never forget that it's all about the grift, and the GOP has built a base willing to pay for these lies, Trump has already co-opted that base once, he at least thinks he can do it again. Given how radical GOP-gerrymandered districts have become (state and federal), there is also a huge power move again to be made there - $$$ and Power. The GOP created this monster with no way to control it, Trump took it over by sheer opportunism and chutzpah, and may be able to do it again. There are a number of GOP Congresspeople already who would likely switch Parties by 22 if they were forced to run against a Trumpalo party candidate.
On the Other hand, that would require local organizing, a lot of it. Organization and sustained effort is most definitely not one of his strengths... best guess is that he creates it, grifts all the low hanging fruit, and then it dies.
Black Lives definitely Matter Lorini!
Also: There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
Grifman wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 6:18 pm
It has been noted in another thread (thought it really belongs here) that Trump is considering starting his own political party, the "Patriot Party". I think it's all bluster. He's got a ton of money from his election "fraud" fundraising but he's just too lazy to do this. Starting a new party would be an enormous amount of work, which he won't do. In addition, I doubt that he could find really good savvy professionals to do the work for him, letting him be the figurehead. He really can't attract good talent, as taking a job from Trump would be burning your bridges back to the Republican Party.
That said, I'd love to see him try. I'd love to see Trumpublicans such as Gomer, Gaetz, Hawley, Brooks, Turbeville, etc being put in the tough position of deciding whether they are truly Republicans or Trumpers. The infighting would be marvelous.
I agree it's bluster but think this is something he actually is good at. It is market testing. He is floating an idea that everyone with half-a-brain knows isn't going to happen. Unfortunately the base is frankly full of idiots, morons, and people he can lead around by the nose. He is hoping he gets a response. If he doesn't...it'll go away. If he gets a response then it becomes an implied threat. "Hey I'm going to float a new party because you guys didn't support me. These guys really love the idea of a 'Riot party and I'd hate to see something happen to *your party*."
Trump's "Save America" fundraiser right after the election generated just over $200,000,000. The RNC got 40% of that. Starting a new party would ensure he gets 100%, instead of just 60%.
Maybe someone should make him pay his damn taxes like the rest of us.
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"Has high IQ. Refuses to apply it"
On his last day in the role before becoming minority leader, Senate Majority leader Mitch McConnell pointed fingers at President Trump, directly accusing him of playing a role in the January 6th insurrection of the U.S. Capitol.
"The mob was fed lies. They were provoked by the president and other powerful people," he said.
hahahahaha.......
McConnell's speech prompted Nelson County GOP leaders to hold an emergency meeting, voting unanimously to issue a resolution censuring the senate majority leader for his comments.
"This has shown his true colors," Nelson Co. GOP Chairman Don Thrasher said. "We felt today during his floor speech on the senate where he impugned the character of President Trump was unacceptable to us. his whole behavior overall through this whole process of the last week is not consistent with what he promised us when he was running for re-election."
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"Has high IQ. Refuses to apply it"
On his last day in the role before becoming minority leader, Senate Majority leader Mitch McConnell pointed fingers at President Trump, directly accusing him of playing a role in the January 6th insurrection of the U.S. Capitol.
"The mob was fed lies. They were provoked by the president and other powerful people," he said.
hahahahaha.......
McConnell's speech prompted Nelson County GOP leaders to hold an emergency meeting, voting unanimously to issue a resolution censuring the senate majority leader for his comments.
"This has shown his true colors," Nelson Co. GOP Chairman Don Thrasher said. "We felt today during his floor speech on the senate where he impugned the character of President Trump was unacceptable to us. his whole behavior overall through this whole process of the last week is not consistent with what he promised us when he was running for re-election."
On his last day in the role before becoming minority leader, Senate Majority leader Mitch McConnell pointed fingers at President Trump, directly accusing him of playing a role in the January 6th insurrection of the U.S. Capitol.
"The mob was fed lies. They were provoked by the president and other powerful people," he said.
hahahahaha.......
McConnell's speech prompted Nelson County GOP leaders to hold an emergency meeting, voting unanimously to issue a resolution censuring the senate majority leader for his comments.
"This has shown his true colors," Nelson Co. GOP Chairman Don Thrasher said. "We felt today during his floor speech on the senate where he impugned the character of President Trump was unacceptable to us. his whole behavior overall through this whole process of the last week is not consistent with what he promised us when he was running for re-election."
Somehow I don't find this a laughing matter anymore. I'm no McConnell fan but he is getting roasted for telling the truth. That's bad.
On his last day in the role before becoming minority leader, Senate Majority leader Mitch McConnell pointed fingers at President Trump, directly accusing him of playing a role in the January 6th insurrection of the U.S. Capitol.
"The mob was fed lies. They were provoked by the president and other powerful people," he said.
hahahahaha.......
McConnell's speech prompted Nelson County GOP leaders to hold an emergency meeting, voting unanimously to issue a resolution censuring the senate majority leader for his comments.
"This has shown his true colors," Nelson Co. GOP Chairman Don Thrasher said. "We felt today during his floor speech on the senate where he impugned the character of President Trump was unacceptable to us. his whole behavior overall through this whole process of the last week is not consistent with what he promised us when he was running for re-election."
Somehow I don't find this a laughing matter anymore. I'm no McConnell fan but he is getting roasted for telling the truth. That's bad.
Mitch is always about what's best for Mitch. When that happens to align with what's best for America, that's good. If throwing trump under the bus is Mitch's take on which way the wind's blowing, that's good. Split that party!
Listening to the governor of of New Hampshire say he doesn't want a dime from the federal government and then totally dodge the challenge that New Hampshire takes in more federal money than they input by doubling down on attacks on NY and CA tax rates is everything I hate about the GOP. Well that and the institutionalized bigotry and zealotry.
LordMortis wrote: ↑Thu Jan 21, 2021 9:33 am
Listening to the governor of of New Hampshire say he doesn't want a dime from the federal government and then totally dodge the challenge that New Hampshire takes in more federal money than they input by doubling down on attacks on NY and CA tax rates is everything I hate about the GOP. Well that and the institutionalized bigotry and zealotry.
Some amount of lying, and even more hypocrisy, is inevitable in politics. The Democratic Party isn’t immune. But it would be a mistake to confuse the acts of bad faith that have saturated Republican conduct for garden-variety hypocrisy or lying. These contradictions don’t point to a lack of self-awareness or passing acts of shame-faced expediency. Republicans and professional conservatives revel in double standards because by embracing double standards they claim power over their opponents. The Republicans have become a party that celebrates rulebreaking, because they have come to see rulebreaking as a show of strength. Their moral compass, inverted by their single-minded pursuit of self-interest, now points south.
Black Lives definitely Matter Lorini!
Also: There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
McConnell on Senate floor both makes clear Republicans are prepared to block a lot of Biden's agenda while simultaneously insisting Schumer commit to preserving the filibuster rule, which enables them to do just that.
So to continue to answer the OP question? I'm sticking with "hot garbage".
How will Mitch block anything when he is minority leader? Schumer couldn't block anything or pass anything.
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Daehawk wrote: ↑Thu Jan 21, 2021 2:15 pm
How will Mitch block anything when he is minority leader? Schumer couldn't block anything or pass anything.
Like this:
McConnell is threatening to filibuster the Organizing Resolution which allows Democrats to assume the committee Chair positions. It’s an absolutely unprecedented, wacky, counterproductive request. We won the Senate. We get the gavels.
malchior wrote: ↑Thu Jan 21, 2021 2:21 pm
Unity lasted -- checks notes -- a single day before a major challenge to norms by McConnell. I wish I could be surprised.
I'm reluctant to challenge McConnnell's mastery of the Senate, but...isn't this stupid on his part? I assume he's trying to get the GOP some senate chair positions because of the 50/50 split, so I get the reward but....this seems like the perfect avenue for Democrats to go ahead and abolish the filibuster nice and early.
malchior wrote: ↑Thu Jan 21, 2021 2:21 pm
Unity lasted -- checks notes -- a single day before a major challenge to norms by McConnell. I wish I could be surprised.
I'm reluctant to challenge McConnnell's mastery of the Senate, but...isn't this stupid on his part? I assume he's trying to get the GOP some senate chair positions because of the 50/50 split, so I get the reward but....this seems like the perfect avenue for Democrats to go ahead and abolish the filibuster nice and early.
It is a bit of a risky move by McConnell and definitely could backfire but he seemingly is counting on Manchin and Sinema to be against it strongly enough that it is a buffer. McConnell obviously wants some ability to stymy activity and is taking every opportunity and thinks he'll be able to twist this 'unity' talk to his advantage.
That said, Ezra Klein's important op-ed today makes a case for getting rid of the filibuster no matter what and practically talks directly to Manchin. Klein's piece IMO is the clearest explanation why the Democrats must do it. He is correctly predicting the GOP will sabotage nearly all progress. McConnell is counting ineffectiveness driving voters to return him to power. Further, McConnell does not want HR.1 to pass. So I think he reasons he needs to make an all-out assault to get a commitment that takes a rules change off the table and then block the shit out of HR.1.
I'm counting on the Democrats not making the change to the filibuster tbh. Unfortunately that'll dramatically increase the chances that Biden will be hamstrung and long-term a factor in how our Democracy might fail. McConnell knows that the Democrat's only way out of the trap the GOP has set is to deliver effective government.
malchior wrote: ↑Thu Jan 21, 2021 2:54 pm
I'm counting on the Democrats not making the change to the filibuster tbh. Unfortunately that'll dramatically increase the chances that Biden will be hamstrung and long-term a factor in how our Democracy might fail. McConnell knows that the Democrat's only way out of the trap the GOP has set is to deliver effective government.
FWIW I'm more optimistic, though my knowledge of Manchin and Tester and the like doesn't go super deep and a lot depends on how the conservative Democrats approach this. But I'm more optimistic because I can't imagine McConnell moderating enough to head off filibuster reform / abolition, and Democrats aren't going to want to do literally nothing.
But maybe more importantly, at the end of the day Democrats don't really need to 'abolish' the filibuster so much as just gut it. There's already the budget reconciliation exception that Republicans regularly drive a truck through. So just add an exception for civil rights legislation. Then add another exception for climate legislation. It's all important stuff, and it generates headlines more like "Democrats restrict / reform filibuster" as opposed to "Democrats abolish filibuster".
Daehawk wrote: ↑Thu Jan 21, 2021 2:15 pm
How will Mitch block anything when he is minority leader? Schumer couldn't block anything or pass anything.
The Dems could have used the filibuster to block just about any legislation. That is if the Repubs actually had any to vote on.
That's the thing: most of the Republican agenda can be accomplished without legislation.
I heard this spelled out on a podcast earlier. (Pod Save America?)
Tax cuts go in the budget. Attacks on civil rights and other rights are run through the states and nailed down with judges. Business-friendly policy is done through agencies or executive orders. None of this can be filibustered.
When the GOP is in control, they barely need legislation to do what they want done.
Ward said she’s a “Trump Republican” who will “always put America first, who believes in faith, family and freedom.”
trump always puts himself first, makes a mockery of religious faith, has transactional family relationships, and believes in freedom only insofar as it means he can do whatever he wants.
Sadly, it appears that even the slight hope I had of the Republican Party repudiating Trump and seeking a more rational way forward is gone. McConnell seems to have backed away from voting for impeaching Trump, McCarthy is going to Mara Lago to seek forgiveness after somewhat criticizing Trump, Nikki Haley after criticizing Trump now says, "Give him a break", the party descends even further into QANON nonsense with Greene and Boebert, the Arizona GOP censures their own governor for following the law and certifying the vote there, and Oregon GOP released a statement calling the attack on the Capitol a "false flag" operation. It's almost beyond belief, and it is sadly fascinating to watch a political party commit slowly commit suicide in real time. The problem though is that it's going to be a slow painful death, nothing overnight, and in the meantime they are going to inflict a lot of harm on the country. They had a choice but they have chosen the wrong path at the critical fork in the road:
Except it probably won't be suicidal. The most likely path right now is they take a chamber in 2022. They may very well take the Presidency in 2024 and American democracy may be dismantled by the end of the decade.
The RNC is going to invite Trump to speak at their fundraiser meeting in April.
Id laugh if in 2024 Trump ran as a Democrat. Id cry too but seeing the RNC crying would make me laugh a little.
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"Has high IQ. Refuses to apply it"
Today the Republican Party has two choices before it: It can either reform itself, or fracture and surrender to the Troll Party.
Let me explain what I mean. The Troll Party’s central characteristic is an ever tightening spiral of self-reinforcing and self-referential purity tests that makes communicating with anyone beyond the febrile and furious a nearly impossible task. The people pushing for this transformation aren’t a majority yet, but when a virus infects the body politic, its minuscule size belies its massive impact.
That’s what is happening inside the GOP, and why the disease vector, in the form of Donald Trump, puts the entire conservative movement at risk of being hijacked and destroyed by a bellowing billionaire with poor impulse control and a profoundly superficial understanding of the world. The Troll Party puts nationalist, anti-establishment bluster before the tenets of our constitutional republic.
So who comprises the Troll Party? Some of them are a distaff faction of the Tea Party, angry that the leadership in Washington doesn’t pursue their agenda with the bloody-mindedness and tempo they demand. Many are angry that the GOP lost to Barack Obama twice and, in their minds, allowed through action or inaction a set of economic, social, and cultural changes that make them feel powerless. ..
...Others are reality television viewers who don’t get the artifice and irony, even after almost two decades of the form. Some are walking, talking comments sections of the fever swamp sites. Some are your aunt or mom, sending the long, rambling chain emails about Obama’s birth certificate with multiple forwards, fonts, colors, and glittery eagle gifs. Some pose as strict Constitutionalists, loyal unto death to the founders, except when Trump is talking.
Some of the dregs of the creepier neighborhoods of Reddit, Voat, and 4chan have joined for the lulz. The Troll Party looks at the kooks, the overt white supremacists (oh, pardon me, “race realists”), neo-Nazis, flaming anti-Semites, birthers, truthers, Jade Helmers, chemtrailers, and assorted other conspiracy whackjobs in their midst and shrugs it off with a grin.
The same people who viewed Obama’s long associations with the Rev. Jeremiah Wright and Bill Ayers or the endorsement of his candidacy by assorted Panthers, commies, cranks, and graying 1960s revolutionaries as disqualifiers for holding the presidency are now largely silent as David Duke and company board the Trump Train...
...The contagion hasn’t infected the entire GOP, not by a long shot. But it’s spreading. The traditional elements of limited-government fiscal conservatives, social conservatives, and defense hawks are still there. But the Troll Party screams louder, and its members have reached a point where they are more than content to watch the world burn around them if they don’t get their way, right this minute...
...It’s pointless to try to explain to Troll Party members that they’re blind to the tensions and realities of how the world, humanity, and Washington actually function. It’s impossible to explain to them that politics is transactional. That’s not a defense of Washington as it is but a description of its dysfunction. They ascribe Washington’s nature not to their own contradictory desires (“Keep the Government’s Hands Off My Medicare!”) but to conspiracy and contempt...
...The shift is evident online and on conservative radio. Hosts increasingly aren’t drawing an ideological contrast with the Democrats or liberals, even though they’re in the most target-rich environment of the last decade. They’ve taken to whipping the Troll Party into a daily frenzy, driving home the message over and over that somewhere there is an establishment of people in their own ideological and political movement or party who hate them and seek to destroy them.
There is FAR too much truth in this article.
As I go back through the thread, we've known for awhile where this was leading.
Black Lives definitely Matter Lorini!
Also: There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
Pyperkub wrote: ↑Fri Jan 29, 2021 1:07 pmAs I go back through the thread, we've known for awhile where this was leading.
Ornstein and Mann talked about it in 2012 and were mocked for it. It is too bad we still see a lot of folks with their heads buried in the sand about the risks we face.
It only took the GOP 3 weeks to forget the DC stuff and stick their heads back up Trumps butthole.
Also TN dufus Hagerty has hired 13 ex Trump staffers for his office.
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"Has high IQ. Refuses to apply it"
Trump is making a show of control over the GOP this morning. If you haven't been watching the minutia you may have missed the controversy around Congresswoman Greene. She has been the subject of a lot of controversy as people keep digging up videos showing she has called for violence in the past and is essentially an extremist/fascist whatever you want to call it.
McCarthy had set up a meeting next week with her. Some people likened it to the Steve King meeting where he was stripped of committee assignments and pushed out on his ice berg. Where Trump comes in is that Greene just announced she had a phone call and received the endorsement of Trump. She may end up being the 'Voice of Trump' in Congress. Eyes are on now on what McCarthy does. He just bent the knee himself so what will this mean?
Edit: The interesting dynamic here is King's seat was safe but they still pushed him out because he became too big a distraction. Greene may be a bellwether indicating more acceptance of open extremism especially since her seat is considered safe. However, it remains to be seen if other problem children in less stable seats will get the same free level of support from 'on high'.
malchior wrote:Trump is making a show of control over the GOP this morning. If you haven't been watching the minutia you may have missed the controversy around Congresswoman Greene. She has been the subject of a lot of controversy as people keep digging up videos showing she has called for violence in the past and is essentially an extremist/fascist whatever you want to call it.
McCarthy had set up a meeting next week with her. Some people likened it to the Steve King meeting where he was stripped of committee assignments and pushed out on his ice berg. Where Trump comes in is that Greene just announced she had a phone call and received the endorsement of Trump. She may end up being the 'Voice of Trump' in Congress. Eyes are on now on what McCarthy does. He just bent the knee himself so what will this mean?
Edit: The interesting dynamic here is King's seat was safe but they still pushed him out because he became too big a distraction. Greene may be a bellwether indicating more acceptance of open extremism especially since her seat is considered safe. However, it remains to be seen if other problem children in less stable seats will get the same free level of support from 'on high'.
I feel like this is all part of the Republican Party committing suicide. She is a loud mouth whack job. It’s got to be a turn off to at least some Republicans. The same Republicans that lost the house, senate and presidency. Their fealty to Trump is killing them. They deserve to die because of their cowardice and fealty to Trump.
I just hope they go without taking our democracy with them.
Fifty Senators, 190+ Representatives and over seventy million votes for president, hundreds of judges and a significant majority on the Supreme Court, and multiple full propaganda networks would seem to indicate that it isn't suicidal, at least in the near future.
Well not suicidal outside of the 400k plus dead from the pandemic failure.
Biden and the democrats had to survive dozens of lawsuits and efforts to corrupt state republican officials and an actual invasion of the Capitol to actually get to this point, for now.
What all those judges may do to the Biden agenda is TBD.
I do think that this strategy for the GOP is turning a lot of people away, but the hard truth is that going hard core on hate and divisiveness has been very successful for their efforts at gaining and holding a LOT of political power and concentrating wealth /power over the past 20+ years, and outside of the ACA, I find it difficult to see similar success on the sanity side.
Black Lives definitely Matter Lorini!
Also: There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
Trump is making a show of control over the GOP this morning.
bah he doesn't have to do anything. The GOP cow down and lick boot within money smelling distance of Trump.
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"Has high IQ. Refuses to apply it"
I dont see anything to argue about. He was and is the worst.
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"Has high IQ. Refuses to apply it"
So arguably the worst president in US history gets a state holiday. The GOP continues to show it's a lost hope.
Well, he golfed more than he did the work, so I guess a Holiday is appropriate!
Is there a "National Golf Day" that can be co-opted for this purpose? Oh, there appears to be several. There's one in October. There was one last year in May in Washington, DC (surprise surprise) that was postpone thanks to the hoax virus.
, never forget that it's all about the grift, and the GOP has built a base willing to pay for these lies, Trump has already co-opted that base once, he at least thinks he can do it again. Given how radical GOP-gerrymandered districts have become (state and federal), there is also a huge power move again to be made there - $$$ and Power. The GOP created this monster with no way to control it, Trump took it over by sheer opportunism and chutzpah, and may be able to do it again. There are a number of GOP Congresspeople already who would likely switch Parties by 22 if they were forced to run against a Trumpalo party candidate.
