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Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

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Smoove_B
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by Smoove_B »

Well it's a good thing faith in our electoral system is rock solid heading into this, right?

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Skinypupy
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by Skinypupy »

Blackhawk wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 1:36 pm
Take that 'right way' away from people, and all that will be left is the fear and the rage. And that's scary.
I think you're highly underestimating American's laziness, ignorance, and general malaise.

I mean, there will be a core group of people who are likely get off their asses and do something (lots of folks like us here), but my guess is that the general population will largely shrug as long as they're still putting food on the table.
For those accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression.

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Pyperkub
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by Pyperkub »

Kraken wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:10 pm
...

We're at the point where only Republicans can save the Republic. There's no way they're going to allow themselves to be voted out. We are done for.
I'd change that to:

"...only informed Citizens can save the Republic...".

We do see some of this, but the Right Wing propaganda machine is in full tilt growth mode to ensure that the Citizens who should be driving this are kept complacent and in the dark, with nice, juicy rationalizations/appeals to hate/fear/etc. to justify the current corruption of the Republic. A House divided is the goal, and the path to remaining in power.
There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.

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Pyperkub
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by Pyperkub »

This applies to many things, but illustrates the difficulties in getting the GOP to stop living in fantasyland:
House Republican Leader Kevin McCarthy had barely finished presenting his party’s modest plan to fight climate change when conservatives began piling on in opposition...

...the Club for Growth vowed to not endorse any candidate who backs what it called the “liberal” Republican climate plan.

“Besides hurting our economy, these measures will not make a single environmentalist vote for a Republican and only alienate conservatives across the country,” said Club for Growth President David McIntosh.

The blowback illustrates the challenges facing those trying to shed the Republican party’s climate-denying reputation, which alienates many young voters and polls well for Democrats. The fierce criticism also illustrates the limits of pragmatism for a party long backed by groups that question climate change.
There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.

malchior
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by malchior »

Pyperkub wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 2:30 pm
This applies to many things, but illustrates the difficulties in getting the GOP to stop living in fantasyland:
House Republican Leader Kevin McCarthy had barely finished presenting his party’s modest plan to fight climate change when conservatives began piling on in opposition...

...the Club for Growth vowed to not endorse any candidate who backs what it called the “liberal” Republican climate plan.

“Besides hurting our economy, these measures will not make a single environmentalist vote for a Republican and only alienate conservatives across the country,” said Club for Growth President David McIntosh.

The blowback illustrates the challenges facing those trying to shed the Republican party’s climate-denying reputation, which alienates many young voters and polls well for Democrats. The fierce criticism also illustrates the limits of pragmatism for a party long backed by groups that question climate change.
I saw something similar on international tv. Essentially climate expert Michael Mann debating with a conservative Australian politician. The pol essentially said that if I make these massive changes to address climate change I won't get re-elected to do them. It's a real problem. Ultimately we might need to lose democracy to save civilization but the people who are taking control don't seem to care about climate change either so it seem we might be boned either way.

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Pyperkub
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by Pyperkub »

malchior wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 3:15 pm
Pyperkub wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 2:30 pm
This applies to many things, but illustrates the difficulties in getting the GOP to stop living in fantasyland:
House Republican Leader Kevin McCarthy had barely finished presenting his party’s modest plan to fight climate change when conservatives began piling on in opposition...

...the Club for Growth vowed to not endorse any candidate who backs what it called the “liberal” Republican climate plan.

“Besides hurting our economy, these measures will not make a single environmentalist vote for a Republican and only alienate conservatives across the country,” said Club for Growth President David McIntosh.

The blowback illustrates the challenges facing those trying to shed the Republican party’s climate-denying reputation, which alienates many young voters and polls well for Democrats. The fierce criticism also illustrates the limits of pragmatism for a party long backed by groups that question climate change.
I saw something similar on international tv. Essentially climate expert Michael Mann debating with a conservative Australian politician. The pol essentially said that if I make these massive changes to address climate change I won't get re-elected to do them. It's a real problem. Ultimately we might need to lose democracy to save civilization but the people who are taking control don't seem to care about climate change either so it seem we might be boned either way.
IMHO, that's an argument which needs to be addressed via messaging. Moving to an economy which embraces Climate change fixes as a growth industry will have a lot of benefits, and the current Powers are too focused on costs only (with the climate change costs not included as a cost of doing business - the externalities are transferred to people and governments to fix - e.g. Big Oil asking Texas for 12 Billion + to protect its interests).

The parties of NO only focus on current, unadjusted costs and never think about benefits - this applies to the Health Care debate as well. The debates need to be reframed with an emphasis on the business growth opportunities (and citizen growth as well).

Of course, the messaging means breaking through the propaganda networks - which means incentivizing the "NO" groups such as the club for growth, etc. to buy in. That will take some pork as well as messaging, I'd think.
There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.

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Unagi
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by Unagi »

Pyperkub wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 2:30 pm
This applies to many things, but illustrates the difficulties in getting the GOP to stop living in fantasyland:
House Republican Leader Kevin McCarthy had barely finished presenting his party’s modest plan to fight climate change when conservatives began piling on in opposition...

...the Club for Growth vowed to not endorse any candidate who backs what it called the “liberal” Republican climate plan.

“Besides hurting our economy, these measures will not make a single environmentalist vote for a Republican and only alienate conservatives across the country,” said Club for Growth President David McIntosh.

The blowback illustrates the challenges facing those trying to shed the Republican party’s climate-denying reputation, which alienates many young voters and polls well for Democrats. The fierce criticism also illustrates the limits of pragmatism for a party long backed by groups that question climate change.
... wrong side of history ...

Hope they enjoy it.

Drazzil
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by Drazzil »

Default wrote:
Sat Nov 16, 2019 6:00 pm
El Guapo wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 4:23 pm
Maybe if Jesus descends from Heaven along with Ronald Reagan and Abraham Lincoln to condemn Trump, and then only maybe.
"That Jesus looks Mexican to me, and Lincoln freed the n***ers. Reagan is ok." - GOP rural voters.
Lincoln curb stomped the Confederacy and Jesus preaches socialism. You're totally right.
Daehawk wrote:Thats Drazzil's chair damnit.

Drazzil
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by Drazzil »

Unagi wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 5:15 pm
Pyperkub wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 2:30 pm
This applies to many things, but illustrates the difficulties in getting the GOP to stop living in fantasyland:
House Republican Leader Kevin McCarthy had barely finished presenting his party’s modest plan to fight climate change when conservatives began piling on in opposition...

...the Club for Growth vowed to not endorse any candidate who backs what it called the “liberal” Republican climate plan.

“Besides hurting our economy, these measures will not make a single environmentalist vote for a Republican and only alienate conservatives across the country,” said Club for Growth President David McIntosh.

The blowback illustrates the challenges facing those trying to shed the Republican party’s climate-denying reputation, which alienates many young voters and polls well for Democrats. The fierce criticism also illustrates the limits of pragmatism for a party long backed by groups that question climate change.
... wrong side of history ...

Hope they enjoy it.
*cough* Altria *cough*

Because what happens in the rest of the world doesent affect us... At all.. :|
Daehawk wrote:Thats Drazzil's chair damnit.

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Kraken
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by Kraken »

Is it bad luck to bump this thread in anticipation of America after trump?

Why Carly Fiorina is voting for Joe Biden.
It hasn’t been an easy journey to backing a Democrat, especially when she thinks about issues that she cares deeply about, such as limiting government spending and restricting abortion. But as she’s been working with her Unlocking Potential Foundation, which focuses on increasing diversity among corporate leadership, she’s also been watching how the coronavirus pandemic has exposed inequality in America. She needed to speak up, too. Senators Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren are right, she said: The structures of power have been bent too far toward corporate control. But if conservatives really want to do anything about it, she said, they need to start by standing up for their principles.
I didn't listen to the interview, but the edited-down transcript is good.

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Grifman
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by Grifman »

Assuming/hoping Biden wins, the post Trump Republican Party is going to be interesting. I have a lot of thoughts about this, but I am going to hold them for that moment, assuming it comes. It's just going to be very interesting to say the least.
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions. – G.K. Chesterton

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LordMortis
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by LordMortis »

Grifman wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 9:57 am
Assuming/hoping Biden wins, the post Trump Republican Party is going to be interesting. I have a lot of thoughts about this, but I am going to hold them for that moment, assuming it comes. It's just going to be very interesting to say the least.
Noting that I hoped and thought the GOP would implode *before* 2015, my thought is that win or lose it moves right and shrinks, not necessarily losing its grip on power. The irony being more and more historical conservatives #walkingaway having diluting affect on the democrats and their "cohesion" and making it harder from them to govern a position where electoral system and Senate gut punch them at every turn.

The good news for me as a voter being forced to vote democrat is that they will be forced to work with conservative and progressive democrats. The bad news is that competing visions on the left will only make the GOP more effective at being a tyrannical minority.

I'll be wrong in my thoughts just like I was wrong in predicting/hoping for a GOP implosion from radical conservatism, snake oil sales, billionaire strangleholds, and religious righteousness but wrong or not it's where I see things going. (The alternative I see is worse. That we are baddies and the success of the GOP is the most damning evidence possible.)

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