Octopus Overlords

LordMortis wrote: ↑Thu Aug 27, 2020 6:19 pmYou can cut that wage by 80% in my neck of the woods, be a minor trust fund baby climbing the fiscal ladder through a portfolio and upgrading to a bigger mausoleum every five years, believing in and living a suburban life of "America First." That's the 10% I'm talking about.

Skinypupy wrote: ↑Thu Aug 27, 2020 6:30 pmI meant that there are lots of people with her same attitude of "I will vote against anything that may cause me to pay one single cent more in taxes, even if it means the world burns as a result".

Little Raven wrote: ↑Thu Aug 27, 2020 6:31 pm

LordMortis wrote: ↑Thu Aug 27, 2020 6:19 pmYou can cut that wage by 80% in my neck of the woods, be a minor trust fund baby climbing the fiscal ladder through a portfolio and upgrading to a bigger mausoleum every five years, believing in and living a suburban life of "America First." That's the 10% I'm talking about.

That's bad news though. Not many people make 300K+ a year, but 60K+?

Yeah that's much bigger number.

Kraken wrote: ↑Thu Aug 27, 2020 8:18 pm Until this year, I never realized how decoupled the stock markets are from the working-class economy. As long as the markets keep going up, the 10% of us who own >80% of the stocks aren't terribly bothered by those sad headlines about lost jobs and failing businesses and evictions and hunger and lost health insurance happening to people we don't know. Put a red heart in your window and you'll feel better about it.

If trump can convince that 10% that Biden will tank the markets, they'll vote for him.

Grifman wrote: ↑Fri Oct 16, 2020 2:04 pmSo what will the Republican Party do? What does their future hold?

• Move back towards the traditional political center. This means ditching the alt-Right, going back to Wall Street with hat in hand, and trying to convince everyone that Trump was an aberration that will not be repeated. Hardly impossible, but not easy, either. There's been a lot of talk about how both parties have moved to the right over the last 3 decades. That's because both parties have, and frankly, the Democratic party has now spread over a whole lot of the bench where Republicans used to rest. Pushing the Democrats OUT of that space might not be easy.
• Run off the cliff. This doesn't actually mean "move more the right" because honestly, there's nowhere else to go. So instead, think of this as "throwing the board into the air and seeing where all the pieces land." In this scenario, the Democrats actually become "the conservative party," in the sense that they will be fighting to conserve the current order, while the Republicans will transform into a party of radical reactionaries who want to burn it all down and start anew.

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Fri Oct 16, 2020 2:55 pm My opinion on the matter is likely worthless, but I'm of the opinion that the GOP is forever DOA. They've made their choice and they don't get to walk it back when Trump is gone. I'll never vote for a GOP candidate in any capacity as long as I live.

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Fri Oct 16, 2020 2:55 pm My opinion on the matter is likely worthless, but I'm of the opinion that the GOP is forever DOA. They've made their choice and they don't get to walk it back when Trump is gone.

I'll never vote for a GOP candidate in any capacity as long as I live.

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Fri Oct 16, 2020 2:55 pmI'll never vote for a GOP candidate in any capacity as long as I live.

Little Raven wrote: ↑Fri Oct 16, 2020 2:44 pm

Grifman wrote: ↑Fri Oct 16, 2020 2:04 pmSo what will the Republican Party do? What does their future hold?

As you say, there are basically two routes available for the Republicans.

• Move back towards the traditional political center. This means ditching the alt-Right, going back to Wall Street with hat in hand, and trying to convince everyone that Trump was an aberration that will not be repeated. Hardly impossible, but not easy, either. There's been a lot of talk about how both parties have moved to the right over the last 3 decades. That's because both parties have, and frankly, the Democratic party has now spread over a whole lot of the bench where Republicans used to rest. Pushing the Democrats OUT of that space might not be easy.

Run off the cliff. This doesn't actually mean "move more the right" because honestly, there's nowhere else to go. So instead, think of this as "throwing the board into the air and seeing where all the pieces land." In this scenario, the Democrats actually become "the conservative party," in the sense that they will be fighting to conserve the current order, while the Republicans will transform into a party of radical reactionaries who want to burn it all down and start anew. [/list]
In normal times, the latter scenario would be all but unthinkable, but these are not normal times, and there's plenty of precedent for this sort of party realignment.

Grifman wrote: ↑Fri Oct 16, 2020 3:01 pm

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Fri Oct 16, 2020 2:55 pm My opinion on the matter is likely worthless, but I'm of the opinion that the GOP is forever DOA. They've made their choice and they don't get to walk it back when Trump is gone. I'll never vote for a GOP candidate in any capacity as long as I live.

I've made the same promise to myself, though I would consider forgiving a candidate if he tool the Walk of Shame from GOT in an act of repentance.

Pyperkub wrote: ↑Fri Oct 16, 2020 4:06 pm

Grifman wrote: ↑Fri Oct 16, 2020 3:01 pm

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Fri Oct 16, 2020 2:55 pm My opinion on the matter is likely worthless, but I'm of the opinion that the GOP is forever DOA. They've made their choice and they don't get to walk it back when Trump is gone. I'll never vote for a GOP candidate in any capacity as long as I live.

I've made the same promise to myself, though I would consider forgiving a candidate if he tool the Walk of Shame from GOT in an act of repentance.

I voted for Schwarzenegger for re-election as CA Gov, and would consider him for his Environmental Views, but I doubt he (or anyone like him) would ever run on a (current) GOP ticket again. I did get burned by that vote when he unveiled his ALEC package of Propositions to try to enable a GOP/Corporate monopoly on political donations tho (they all went down in flames however).

But again, the GOP, even in CA, has tilted so Authoritarian/Conspiracy Theory/Lies, that I find it extremely difficult to believe they will ever run a decent candidate ever again.

Jaymann wrote: ↑Fri Oct 16, 2020 4:45 pm

Pyperkub wrote: ↑Fri Oct 16, 2020 4:06 pm

Grifman wrote: ↑Fri Oct 16, 2020 3:01 pm

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Fri Oct 16, 2020 2:55 pm My opinion on the matter is likely worthless, but I'm of the opinion that the GOP is forever DOA. They've made their choice and they don't get to walk it back when Trump is gone. I'll never vote for a GOP candidate in any capacity as long as I live.

I've made the same promise to myself, though I would consider forgiving a candidate if he tool the Walk of Shame from GOT in an act of repentance.

I voted for Schwarzenegger for re-election as CA Gov, and would consider him for his Environmental Views, but I doubt he (or anyone like him) would ever run on a (current) GOP ticket again. I did get burned by that vote when he unveiled his ALEC package of Propositions to try to enable a GOP/Corporate monopoly on political donations tho (they all went down in flames however).

But again, the GOP, even in CA, has tilted so Authoritarian/Conspiracy Theory/Lies, that I find it extremely difficult to believe they will ever run a decent candidate ever again.

Ah-nold is not a natural born citizen, so ineligible.

Little Raven wrote: ↑Fri Oct 16, 2020 3:30 pm I wouldn't bind yourself TOO tightly to that promise, my friend. With any luck, you'll be voting for another 40 years. There's no telling where the parties will go in that time.

What's important is not voting GOP in THIS election.

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:53 pm

Little Raven wrote: ↑Fri Oct 16, 2020 3:30 pm I wouldn't bind yourself TOO tightly to that promise, my friend. With any luck, you'll be voting for another 40 years. There's no telling where the parties will go in that time.

I'm pretty confident. The GOP is now the party of white supremacists as far as I'm concerned. They had their chance but instead decided to remain silent or rally behind Trump. I cannot abide acquiescence in this scenario and I don't know what they could say or do (current party members top to bottom) to change my mind on that. Similarly I cannot imagine supporting someone that's unaffiliated and thinking, "Those openly racist politicians in D.C.? Yeah, that's the group I want to be part of." I am looking forward to figuring out how to interact with local politicians in upcoming elections and confirming their stance on white supremacy as registered (R). I live in a GOP stronghold county of NJ and anecdotally let's just say they're not convincing me they strongly disagree with Trump and what's he's said and done.

What's important is not voting GOP in THIS election.

Certainly true. But I cannot forgot those that stood by in the party and did nothing for hte last 4 years. And I certainly won't hear the lamentations of any GOP member in January that's suddenly under the microscope. They're all complicit as far as I'm concerned.

$iljanus wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2020 9:59 am There are more than enough GOP politicians who are up for election in 2022 that have rode Trump's coat tails and said nothing or actively bought into his toxic bullshit.

Grifman wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:18 pm

$iljanus wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2020 9:59 am There are more than enough GOP politicians who are up for election in 2022 that have rode Trump's coat tails and said nothing or actively bought into his toxic bullshit.

Just note for the future, the next Senate elections favor the Democrats once again. If they do well in this election and Biden turns things around, a 60 seat super majority might not be out of reach.

Plus, in the 2022 senate races the Dems will be defending 12 almost entirely safe seats while Republicans will be defending 20 seats including PA, NC, FL, OH, and WI.

This year's senate special-election terms in AZ and GA will also be ending.

$iljanus wrote:

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:53 pm

Little Raven wrote: ↑Fri Oct 16, 2020 3:30 pm I wouldn't bind yourself TOO tightly to that promise, my friend. With any luck, you'll be voting for another 40 years. There's no telling where the parties will go in that time.

I'm pretty confident. The GOP is now the party of white supremacists as far as I'm concerned. They had their chance but instead decided to remain silent or rally behind Trump. I cannot abide acquiescence in this scenario and I don't know what they could say or do (current party members top to bottom) to change my mind on that. Similarly I cannot imagine supporting someone that's unaffiliated and thinking, "Those openly racist politicians in D.C.? Yeah, that's the group I want to be part of." I am looking forward to figuring out how to interact with local politicians in upcoming elections and confirming their stance on white supremacy as registered (R). I live in a GOP stronghold county of NJ and anecdotally let's just say they're not convincing me they strongly disagree with Trump and what's he's said and done.

What's important is not voting GOP in THIS election.

Certainly true. But I cannot forgot those that stood by in the party and did nothing for hte last 4 years. And I certainly won't hear the lamentations of any GOP member in January that's suddenly under the microscope. They're all complicit as far as I'm concerned.

There are more than enough GOP politicians who are up for election in 2022 that have rode Trump's coat tails and said nothing or actively bought into his toxic bullshit. So none of us should forget and the GOP needs to be taught that willing collaboration with someone who will turn the US into a raging dumpster fire for political power will cost you in 2022, 2024, however long it takes.

And if there are Democrats who aren't willing to step up and start thinking about new solutions to some pretty big problems we're facing now, not 10 or 20 years from now but right now in the form of climate change, income inequality, racial injustice, then they can get booted too when the primaries come around. Feinstein can go sip mint juleps with Graham in their retirement when they are booted out of the Senate.

Isgrimnur wrote: ↑Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:48 pm There needs to be a way for politicians to pursue slander against shit like this.

This Hunter Biden laptop story is fucked.

Docs show the laptop was dropped on Apr 12, 2019. They also show an external drive and its serial number.

Western Digital’s web site says that drive’s **3-year** warranty expires Apr 18, 2022…meaning it was manufactured Apr *18*, 2019...

...UPDATE: It’s unclear why, but Western Digital’s warranty tracker now shows May 17, 2022 as the expiration date for its three year warranty, but still indicates that no registration/dated proof of purchase was provided (the edit icon goes away when a WD drive is registered).

Hell, the emails were “printed” to PDF in October 2019, according to metadata in the PDF files linked by the NY Post story. Six months after the computer was allegedly dropped off by someone who may or may not be Hunter Biden.
Basically, there isn’t one part of their story that holds even a small amount of water.

You know what does “fit” the narrative, though?

Some sketchy dude overcharged his customer (whom he didn’t recognize at first) for “recovery” (making a backup of a working drive)
He realized what a treasure trove he had, and gave up the goods to Rudy’s lawyer for a cash payment. From there, they used their numerous (a and documented) connections to foreign nationals to mix some choice forgeries into the other legitimate data on the (backup) drive.

malchior wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2020 5:17 pmBurn it down. It's hopeless.

Of all the things President Trump has destroyed, the Republican Party is among the most dismaying.

“Destroyed” is perhaps too simplistic, though. It would be more precise to say that Mr. Trump accelerated his party’s demise, exposing the rot that has been eating at its core for decades and leaving it a hollowed-out shell devoid of ideas, values or integrity, committed solely to preserving its own power even at the expense of democratic norms, institutions and ideals.

Tomato, tomahto. However you characterize it, the Republican Party’s dissolution under Mr. Trump is bad for American democracy.

A healthy political system needs robust, competing parties to give citizens a choice of ideological, governing and policy visions. More specifically, center-right parties have long been crucial to the health of modern liberal democracies, according to the Harvard political scientist Daniel Ziblatt’s study of the emergence of democracy in Western Europe. Among other benefits, a strong center right can co-opt more palatable aspects of the far right, isolating and draining energy from the more radical elements that threaten to destabilize the system.

Today’s G.O.P. does not come close to serving this function. It has instead allowed itself to be co-opted and radicalized by Trumpism. Its ideology has been reduced to a slurry of paranoia, white grievance and authoritarian populism. Its governing vision is reactionary, a cross between obstructionism and owning the libs. Its policy agenda, as defined by the party platform, is whatever President Trump wants — which might not be so pathetic if Mr. Trump’s interests went beyond “Build a wall!”

“There is no philosophical underpinning for the Republican Party anymore,” the veteran strategist Reed Galen recently lamented to this board. A co-founder of the Lincoln Project, a political action committee run by current and former Republicans dedicated to defeating Mr. Trump and his enablers, Mr. Galen characterized the party as a self-serving, power-hungry gang.

...

But many of these disillusioned Republicans also acknowledge that their team has been descending into white grievance, revanchism and know-nothing populism for decades. Mr. Trump just greased the slide. “He is the logical conclusion of what the Republican Party has become in the last 50 or so years,” the longtime party strategist Stuart Stevens asserts in his new book, “It Was All a Lie.”

The scars of Mr. Trump’s presidency will linger long after he leaves office. Some Republicans believe that, if those scars run only four years deep, rather than eight, their party can be nursed back to health. Others question whether there is anything left worth saving. Mr. Stevens’s prescription: “Burn it to the ground, and start over.”

gameoverman wrote: ↑Tue Nov 03, 2020 3:49 pm I wouldn't vote for a Republican presidential candidate until after I had seen years of the new Republican party doing good works to erase Trump's McConnell's stench. Would they be willing to spend years on the sidelines of power, just working to regain trust and respect? I doubt it. At least I doubt they'd do it willingly, they might have to do it anyways just because they'll have no choice.

LordMortis wrote: ↑Tue Nov 03, 2020 4:03 pm

gameoverman wrote: ↑Tue Nov 03, 2020 3:49 pm I wouldn't vote for a Republican presidential candidate until after I had seen years of the new Republican party doing good works to erase Trump's McConnell's stench. Would they be willing to spend years on the sidelines of power, just working to regain trust and respect? I doubt it. At least I doubt they'd do it willingly, they might have to do it anyways just because they'll have no choice.

That's me. While Trump is the biggest current expression of my #walking away, the system of empowerment implemented by McConnell's GOP needs dead and buried before trust and respect can even start. I don't see the path to that happening, but then I'm not very smart. Also the years necessary could be drastically reduced by the party in blue abusing my vote. My vote against the GOP isn't always enthusiastic.

Some amount of lying, and even more hypocrisy, is inevitable in politics. The Democratic Party isn’t immune. But it would be a mistake to confuse the acts of bad faith that have saturated Republican conduct for garden-variety hypocrisy or lying. These contradictions don’t point to a lack of self-awareness or passing acts of shame-faced expediency. Republicans and professional conservatives revel in double standards because by embracing double standards they claim power over their opponents. The Republicans have become a party that celebrates rulebreaking, because they have come to see rulebreaking as a show of strength. Their moral compass, inverted by their single-minded pursuit of self-interest, now points south.