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Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

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malchior
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by malchior »

Grifman wrote: Tue Nov 03, 2020 5:31 pmRepublicans become even more conservative - and irrelevant:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... her-right/
This remains to be seen. They'll seem pretty relevant if they become even more illiberal and dangerous.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by Pyperkub »

malchior wrote: Tue Nov 03, 2020 5:34 pm
Grifman wrote: Tue Nov 03, 2020 5:31 pmRepublicans become even more conservative - and irrelevant:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... her-right/
This remains to be seen. They'll seem pretty relevant if they become even more illiberal and dangerous.
Uh, it's not conservatism that they are moving towards, it's radicalism. They are beyond conservative nowadays.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by Grifman »

Well, I think this has been decisively answered, even with a Trump loss, this will still be his party, a party of religous conservatives, rural and small town folk, blue collar non college educated people, conservative Hispanics, with a few plutocrats thrown in for good measure. A strange mixture, for sure, but it seems to be working as a whole, not withstanding the presidential election.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by LordMortis »

Grifman wrote: Wed Nov 04, 2020 8:11 pm Well, I think this has been decisively answered, even with a Trump loss, this will still be his party, a party of religous conservatives, rural and small town folk, blue collar non college educated people, conservative Hispanics, with a few plutocrats thrown in for good measure. A strange mixture, for sure, but it seems to be working as a whole, not withstanding the presidential election.
I'd say he generally has the top 10% holders of wealth (or wage earners for those live in debt and live wealthy) as well and they (we at this point in my life, though I sure don't feel like it) are almost all college educated, with the exception of the remains of the WW2 babies who earned a lifelong wage and pension at a factory job and lived through their health hazards long enough to retire to start investing during the rise of the Internet age while collecting their pensions and getting lifelong healthcare.

I was not prepared for Great Lakes Midwest rustbelt modern excess suburbia to be so Trumpublican as they are.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by Kraken »

LordMortis wrote: Wed Nov 04, 2020 8:41 pm the top 10% holders of wealth (or wage earners for those live in debt and live wealthy) as well and they (we at this point in my life, though I sure don't feel like it)
It's sobering to think that 90% of Americans are worse off than me and you. I still make a budget, clip coupons, and buy things seldom and carefully. My wants and habits are modest. These are not rich person behaviors. I do have some money in the bank and healthy retirement accounts, though, so I guess that makes me rich. You'd think being in the top decile would get you at least one measly yacht.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by LordMortis »

Kraken wrote: Wed Nov 04, 2020 9:54 pm I do have some money in the bank and healthy retirement accounts, though, so I guess that makes me rich.
If you are at the bottom of the top top 10% wealth holders it can be as little at $96,000. That's not enough to have one uninsured surgery without going bankrupt and not enough to pay to survive a treatable cancer.

If I build my wealth for another two years I think I have a shot wrapping it up at 52, being single, with no children, not taking trips, not buying things, and just kind subsisting in my rundown world. My budget would be $3,000 a month for everything, which includes ACA based health care eating nearly half that budget. Not a pauper, but a content poor self reliant person with no will to work watching his dollar become worth less and less. That is if the economy doesn't shit the bed, which I am sure it will. Savings accounts are useless, CDs tying your money up for noting. Money Markets actually losing money. Greatest economy ever!!!! So I'm forced play in a market I don't understand to make money off other people not making money until someone makes money off me not making money. I fear one day the other money makers will even find a way to drain the S&P. It already feels like it's a pyramid scheme. I forget the expression Lawbeef and kids these days use but it's a corollary FOMO, essentially there is nowhere else to put your money, until everyone collectively decides that is no longer the case. The S&P grows at around 10% a year over the long haul but as it's companies turn from growth companies to blue chip income companies, dividends percentages have been decreasing. The value of all of these companies keeps going up but they aren't providing more. Apple is at the top of all of these ETFs 50% gain on the year. When smart phone took off, say 2009, AAPL was pulling in $1.78 per share equivalent per quarter. That same share equivalent is valued 10-12xs higher and is pulling in .73 a quarter. But what else are you going to do? Had I not been saving everything I make and accepting that 100+ years of investing evidence rooted in 1000+ years of investing evidence isn't going pop in my lifetime, then I have a few hangovers another new car somewhere along the line instead driving cars until they are to expensive or troublesome to fix and I wouldn't be a top 10% wealth holder.

Edit: TINA... There Is No Alternative.... That's the expression they use.

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/t/ti ... native.asp
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by noxiousdog »

You're killing me.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by Little Raven »

Christ, LM. I'll never discourage someone from following their dreams, but...I think I enjoy working more than I would enjoy that lifestyle. :shock:
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by pr0ner »

LordMortis wrote: Wed Nov 04, 2020 10:37 pm
Kraken wrote: Wed Nov 04, 2020 9:54 pm I do have some money in the bank and healthy retirement accounts, though, so I guess that makes me rich.
If you are at the bottom of the top top 10% wealth holders it can be as little at $96,000. That's not enough to have one uninsured surgery without going bankrupt and not enough to pay to survive a treatable cancer.

If I build my wealth for another two years I think I have a shot wrapping it up at 52, being single, with no children, not taking trips, not buying things, and just kind subsisting in my rundown world. My budget would be $3,000 a month for everything, which includes ACA based health care eating nearly half that budget. Not a pauper, but a content poor self reliant person with no will to work watching his dollar become worth less and less. That is if the economy doesn't shit the bed, which I am sure it will. Savings accounts are useless, CDs tying your money up for noting. Money Markets actually losing money. Greatest economy ever!!!! So I'm forced play in a market I don't understand to make money off other people not making money until someone makes money off me not making money. I fear one day the other money makers will even find a way to drain the S&P. It already feels like it's a pyramid scheme. I forget the expression Lawbeef and kids these days use but it's a corollary FOMO, essentially there is nowhere else to put your money, until everyone collectively decides that is no longer the case. The S&P grows at around 10% a year over the long haul but as it's companies turn from growth companies to blue chip income companies, dividends percentages have been decreasing. The value of all of these companies keeps going up but they aren't providing more. Apple is at the top of all of these ETFs 50% gain on the year. When smart phone took off, say 2009, AAPL was pulling in $1.78 per share equivalent per quarter. That same share equivalent is valued 10-12xs higher and is pulling in .73 a quarter. But what else are you going to do? Had I not been saving everything I make and accepting that 100+ years of investing evidence rooted in 1000+ years of investing evidence isn't going pop in my lifetime, then I have a few hangovers another new car somewhere along the line instead driving cars until they are to expensive or troublesome to fix and I wouldn't be a top 10% wealth holder.

Edit: TINA... There Is No Alternative.... That's the expression they use.

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/t/ti ... native.asp
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by LordMortis »

noxiousdog wrote: Wed Nov 04, 2020 11:55 pm You're killing me.
I have actually learned a lot from you beginning about 6+ years ago when I began the position in life to first start accumulating wealth outside of my 401k (some of learning already too late...)
Little Raven wrote: Thu Nov 05, 2020 12:00 am Christ, LM. I'll never discourage someone from following their dreams, but...I think I enjoy working more than I would enjoy that lifestyle. :shock:
One of the reasons health care is so important is persistent health problems. The longer I am in the work force the more I am driving myself down. I bust hump to make the living that affords me a top wage and I'm exhausted. I don't see having the stamina and drive and mental sharpness, much less the vision to put in a 20 hour work week by the time I'm 60 much less working until 75 and I'm already too exhausted to have a life outside of work now. What's the difference?
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by pr0ner »

I honestly can't imagine fretting over the stock market like you do if your goal is to live on $1500 a month the rest of your life.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by Grifman »

Trump World is tearing itself apart right now. Republican such as Dan Crenshaw who have supportive of letting the process play out but investigating any irregularities if found (but not screaming fraud right now) are being attacked on Twitter by the true believers:

Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions. – G.K. Chesterton
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by Smoove_B »

Irregularities flagrant and transparency lacking? You can watch people counting votes on friggin' Youtube! Really excellent way to give a half-assed message regarding the process. "We have to let them do it, but it's not right".

F Dan Crenshaw. I hope his base eats him alive.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by malchior »

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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by YellowKing »

I'm seeing a mass Trumpian exodus from Facebook/Twitter to Parler. Biden's doing some good already!
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by RunningMn9 »

YellowKing wrote:I'm seeing a mass Trumpian exodus from Facebook/Twitter to Parler. Biden's doing some good already!
That would be glorious.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

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YellowKing wrote: Sun Nov 08, 2020 11:22 am I'm seeing a mass Trumpian exodus from Facebook/Twitter to Parler. Biden's doing some good already!
Those who know me know that I’m generally pretty chill on FB, and stay away from most of the political nonsense. My only political posts in the weeks leading up to the election were solely around encouraging people to vote and expressing a few frustrations at suppression efforts. I didn’t say a single word about Trump or Biden.

I had noticed I hadn’t seen a peep from my usual conservative canaries for a long time. In checking last night, I realized that they had almost all unfriended me. Not a big loss (most of them were old high school acquaintances), but I found it rather interesting that encouraging people to vote ended up being the final straw that pushed them to cut me out of their circle entirely. :lol:
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by Unagi »

You showed your tribe colors by wanting everyone to vote.
Had you made a comment about wearing masks, that would have also flagged you.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by Pyperkub »

It is difficult for me to grasp people who choose the vile politics of hate over their friends. Note that that applies to folk on the entire political spectrum.

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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by malchior »

Skinypupy wrote: Sun Nov 08, 2020 11:51 amI had noticed I hadn’t seen a peep from my usual conservative canaries for a long time. In checking last night, I realized that they had almost all unfriended me. Not a big loss (most of them were old high school acquaintances), but I found it rather interesting that encouraging people to vote ended up being the final straw that pushed them to cut me out of their circle entirely. :lol:
This is why I stay in read-only mode (partly) - I want to keep the channel up and active. Though the main reason is my employer is Orwellian about social media posts. I essentially face canceling if I say or like anything not deemed "woke" enough by millennial and Gen Z co-workers. :roll:
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by Jaymann »

malchior wrote: Sun Nov 08, 2020 3:01 pm
Skinypupy wrote: Sun Nov 08, 2020 11:51 amI had noticed I hadn’t seen a peep from my usual conservative canaries for a long time. In checking last night, I realized that they had almost all unfriended me. Not a big loss (most of them were old high school acquaintances), but I found it rather interesting that encouraging people to vote ended up being the final straw that pushed them to cut me out of their circle entirely. :lol:
This is why I stay in read-only mode (partly) - I want to keep the channel up and active. Though the main reason is my employer is Orwellian about social media posts. I essentially face canceling if I say or like anything not deemed "woke" enough by millennial and Gen Z co-workers. :roll:
I would be sorely tempted to make up the most woke sounding gibberish imaginable.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

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Stop friending coworkers. That's what LinkedIn is for.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by malchior »

Isgrimnur wrote: Sun Nov 08, 2020 4:03 pm Stop friending coworkers. That's what LinkedIn is for.
Oh I don't but they still monitor everything. I'm aware of an incident where someone got upset with someone and they dug back through their Twitter history and found something marginal. It didn't end up getting the guy fired but he got a good scare.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by Zaxxon »

Reminder that Romney is just another R at the end of the day.

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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

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The Repugnican legacy: No health insurance for chu!
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

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malchior wrote: Sun Nov 08, 2020 4:14 pm
Isgrimnur wrote: Sun Nov 08, 2020 4:03 pm Stop friending coworkers. That's what LinkedIn is for.
Oh I don't but they still monitor everything. I'm aware of an incident where someone got upset with someone and they dug back through their Twitter history and found something marginal. It didn't end up getting the guy fired but he got a good scare.
HR needs to shut that shit down.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by Jaymann »

Isgrimnur wrote: Sun Nov 08, 2020 4:41 pm
malchior wrote: Sun Nov 08, 2020 4:14 pm
Isgrimnur wrote: Sun Nov 08, 2020 4:03 pm Stop friending coworkers. That's what LinkedIn is for.
Oh I don't but they still monitor everything. I'm aware of an incident where someone got upset with someone and they dug back through their Twitter history and found something marginal. It didn't end up getting the guy fired but he got a good scare.
HR needs to shut that shit down.
They're probably running it.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by malchior »

Jaymann wrote: Sun Nov 08, 2020 4:43 pm
Isgrimnur wrote: Sun Nov 08, 2020 4:41 pm
malchior wrote: Sun Nov 08, 2020 4:14 pm
Isgrimnur wrote: Sun Nov 08, 2020 4:03 pm Stop friending coworkers. That's what LinkedIn is for.
Oh I don't but they still monitor everything. I'm aware of an incident where someone got upset with someone and they dug back through their Twitter history and found something marginal. It didn't end up getting the guy fired but he got a good scare.
HR needs to shut that shit down.
They're probably running it.
That is correct. And we are management consulting so it will be coming to you sometime soon. It'll soon be sold as an HR "Best Practice" to protect your company against exposure to social media and employee reputation. They get 24 hour notice of many public records like lawsuits, arrests, and a social media score (like a credit score).
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by Smoove_B »

wE neEd tO wOrK wItH tHe GoP!


Reporter: "Senator, have you congratulated Vice President Biden yet?"

Sen. Ron Johnson: "No."

Reporter: "Why not?"

Johnson: "Nothing to congratulate him about."
EABOD Senator.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by LordMortis »

Smoove_B wrote: Tue Nov 10, 2020 5:14 pm wE neEd tO wOrK wItH tHe GoP!


Reporter: "Senator, have you congratulated Vice President Biden yet?"

Sen. Ron Johnson: "No."

Reporter: "Why not?"

Johnson: "Nothing to congratulate him about."
EABOD Senator.
I actually do support attempting to work with the right, but bit by bit you shut it down. Ron Johnson, shut down. Mitch McConnell, shut down.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by Jeff V »

The only way you shut them down is by gaining control of the senate. Attempting to work with those weasels is a fool's errand, they'll take everything you concede, and give you nothing in return if and when they get back into power. The donkeys need to establish relationships with any honorable Republicans that might still exist (I believe them to be extinct, but I don't know them all), receive some proven quid-pro-quo (ie, they break party ranks to vote for their initiatives and get tossed carrots as a reward), then work across the aisle to elevate those people within the party and break the authority commanded by the likes of Moscow Mitch.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by Holman »

Jeff V wrote: Tue Nov 10, 2020 6:17 pm [...] The donkeys need to establish relationships with any honorable Republicans that might still exist (I believe them to be extinct, but I don't know them all), receive some proven quid-pro-quo (ie, they break party ranks to vote for their initiatives and get tossed carrots as a reward), then work across the aisle to elevate those people within the party and break the authority commanded by the likes of Moscow Mitch.
This is apparently Biden's plan. He was in the senate for decades and believes himself to have personal relationships with many people across the aisle. If any Democrat was ever in a position to work with the other side, it's Joe Biden.

We'll find out in a few weeks whether such a thing is even remotely possible.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by RunningMn9 »

I’m not even sure Joe is going to get a chance. In the last few hours, the WH has completely decapitated the civilian leadership of the DOD, and has installed more stooges and cronies.

Whatever is happening, it’s not about to turn over power on 1/20/21.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by YellowKing »

My only hope (and my God is it a thin one) is that the departure of Trump causes a shift back to some semblance of Republican "normalcy." What I mean by that is that for some reason, Trump holds an incredible sway over these people, and I don't exactly know the reason why. However, with his influence removed there may be a chance to get back to somewhat standard operating procedure. Case in point - CNN reports that many Republican congressmen have spoken privately that they wish to congratulate Biden but cannot do so without risking death threats from Trump's supporters and incurring his wrath.

"Trumpism" will remain to some degree in the Republican party, but it can't function to the degree it has without Trump's narcissism, complete shattering of norms, unfettered willingness to break the law at all costs, etc. Those things arose through Trump's mental illness, and if you subtract that mental illness you might have the same goals but you're probably moving towards them within a more normal structure. And if they're in a more normal structure, perhaps we can find ways to combat them.

Like I said, it's a thin hope. But it's all I've got.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by Jeff V »

Holman wrote: Tue Nov 10, 2020 6:35 pm
Jeff V wrote: Tue Nov 10, 2020 6:17 pm [...] The donkeys need to establish relationships with any honorable Republicans that might still exist (I believe them to be extinct, but I don't know them all), receive some proven quid-pro-quo (ie, they break party ranks to vote for their initiatives and get tossed carrots as a reward), then work across the aisle to elevate those people within the party and break the authority commanded by the likes of Moscow Mitch.
This is apparently Biden's plan. He was in the senate for decades and believes himself to have personal relationships with many people across the aisle. If any Democrat was ever in a position to work with the other side, it's Joe Biden.

We'll find out in a few weeks whether such a thing is even remotely possible.
It'll be easier if those apparently bent on treason are convicted and executed. And, asking for a friend, do you think think that if Biden pulls a move from the Bolshevik playbook and has the Trump family executed ala the Romanovs, will history look unkindly on him?
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by Kraken »

YellowKing wrote: Tue Nov 10, 2020 6:59 pm "Trumpism" will remain to some degree in the Republican party,
It does seem like that word is going to stick, although IDK quite what it means. I wonder if "trumpism" will come to be defined as a particular type of fascism.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by YellowKing »

I look at Trumpism as the idea of doing out in the open what you used to only talk about behind closed doors.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by raydude »

YellowKing wrote: Tue Nov 10, 2020 6:59 pm Case in point - CNN reports that many Republican congressmen have spoken privately that they wish to congratulate Biden but cannot do so without risking death threats from Trump's supporters and incurring his wrath.
I don't understand why this "incurring his wrath" excuse is even a thing anymore. If Biden is going to be President then that means Trump will NOT. And if NOT, then he has no ground to stand on regarding the "wrath" part. Any election is at least two years away, plenty of time for Trump voters to forget, and Trump will have more important matters (loans, investigations, trials) to deal with.

If enough congresspeople come forward Trump will be exposed to have no clothes and that will be that.

I don't get it.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by Holman »

raydude wrote: Wed Nov 11, 2020 5:30 pm
YellowKing wrote: Tue Nov 10, 2020 6:59 pm Case in point - CNN reports that many Republican congressmen have spoken privately that they wish to congratulate Biden but cannot do so without risking death threats from Trump's supporters and incurring his wrath.
I don't understand why this "incurring his wrath" excuse is even a thing anymore. If Biden is going to be President then that means Trump will NOT. And if NOT, then he has no ground to stand on regarding the "wrath" part. Any election is at least two years away, plenty of time for Trump voters to forget, and Trump will have more important matters (loans, investigations, trials) to deal with.

If enough congresspeople come forward Trump will be exposed to have no clothes and that will be that.

I don't get it.
I think the assumption is that Trump's followers become a ready-made GOP purity movement (like the Tea Party) the moment he leaves office.

Cross Trump, get primaried.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

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Or worse the red hats show up at your house with pitchfork guns and torches.
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