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Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

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Skinypupy wrote:It’s their god-given right as patriotic Americans to catch and die from a communicable disease if they want to, dammit. How dare you take that freedom from them!

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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by Smoove_B »

This should help in defining the party:
Almost half of Republicans support the pro-Trump protesters who stormed the U.S. Capitol on Wednesday, putting them at odds with Democrats who largely oppose the actions of the demonstrators, a poll has found.

The survey released by YouGov on Thursday morning found that 45 percent of Republican voters backed the attack on the Capitol building, while 43 percent said they "strongly or somewhat" opposed the protesters' behavior.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by Paingod »

Grifman wrote: Tue Nov 03, 2020 5:31 pmRepublicans become even more conservative
At what point can we stop calling the current party "Conservative" - they've proven over the last four years that they're driven entirely by the lust for power. The party tagline is more or less "LIBERALS WANT TO EAT YOUR CHILDREN" and other such nonsense. Anything to spark fear and hatred.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by Zaxxon »

Paingod wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:10 am
Grifman wrote: Tue Nov 03, 2020 5:31 pmRepublicans become even more conservative
At what point can we stop calling the current party "Conservative" - they've proven over the last four years that they're driven entirely by the lust for power. The party tagline is more or less "LIBERALS WANT TO EAT YOUR CHILDREN" and other such nonsense. Anything to spark fear and hatred.
Indeed. Nearly half the party's members in the House voting that the Vice President should override the will of the states is. Um. Well, it's... What's the word--not conservative, no, that's not it. Ah, yes. Extremely radical.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by YellowKing »

I, for one, welcome our new divided Republican party that hopefully can't get their shit together to win elections.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by $iljanus »

Paingod wrote:
Grifman wrote: Tue Nov 03, 2020 5:31 pmRepublicans become even more conservative
At what point can we stop calling the current party "Conservative" - they've proven over the last four years that they're driven entirely by the lust for power. The party tagline is more or less "LIBERALS WANT TO EAT YOUR CHILDREN" and other such nonsense. Anything to spark fear and hatred.
Or: Liberals=Socialism (and are child molesters/Satan worshipers)
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by malchior »

JFC

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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by $iljanus »

malchior wrote:JFC

Yup. Biden needs to get people to realize that there's a price for sedition.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by LordMortis »

$iljanus wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:45 am
malchior wrote:JFC

Yup. Biden needs to get people to realize that there's a price for sedition.


Yes, please.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by coopasonic »

Paingod wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:10 am
Grifman wrote: Tue Nov 03, 2020 5:31 pmRepublicans become even more conservative
At what point can we stop calling the current party "Conservative" - they've proven over the last four years that they're driven entirely by the lust for power. The party tagline is more or less "LIBERALS WANT TO EAT YOUR CHILDREN" and other such nonsense. Anything to spark fear and hatred.
I think Conservative refers to conserving the power, privilege and money of white men.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by hepcat »

Smoove_B wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:03 am This should help in defining the party:
Almost half of Republicans support the pro-Trump protesters who stormed the U.S. Capitol on Wednesday, putting them at odds with Democrats who largely oppose the actions of the demonstrators, a poll has found.

The survey released by YouGov on Thursday morning found that 45 percent of Republican voters backed the attack on the Capitol building, while 43 percent said they "strongly or somewhat" opposed the protesters' behavior.
Well, I guess that's that then. Our country is screwed. I'm packing now for a move to Venezuela where things are a little more stable.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by Archinerd »

From Tuesday, which now feels like 2 months ago;

Rep. Mary Miller, R-Ill., praised Hitler at a “Moms for America” pro-Trump rally Tuesday in front of the Capitol.
Miller, from Oakland, a small town in southeast Illinois, spoke at the “Moms for America Saving the Republic” rally outside the Capitol on Tuesday.

Miller earlier announced she was joining with other Republicans in objecting to Congress certifying the election of Joe Biden, who beat President Donald Trump in the popular and electoral votes.

At the rally, Miller, said, “Each generation has the responsibility to teach the next generation. You know, if we win a few elections we’re still going to be losing unless we win the hearts of our children. It’s the battle. Hitler was right on one thing that whoever has the youth has the future. Our children are being propagandized.”
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by Blackhawk »

Hitler was occasionally right about things. That doesn't mean that he's fair game to use to advance your political agenda, though.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by Holman »

Blackhawk wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 1:11 pm Hitler was occasionally right about things. That doesn't mean that he's fair game to use to advance your political agenda, though.
Especially when there are probably two or three dozen alternative sources for articulating the same sentiment.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by Blackhawk »

Holman wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 3:20 pm
Blackhawk wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 1:11 pm Hitler was occasionally right about things. That doesn't mean that he's fair game to use to advance your political agenda, though.
Especially when there are probably two or three dozen alternative sources for articulating the same sentiment.
Yep. She should have trotted out Whitney Houston.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by Holman »

Her Hitler quote, by the way, isn't one of the better known ones.

It *is*, however, frequently deployed in neo-Nazi circles when complaining about the media/education/pop culture.

I doubt we've heard the last of MAGdA Goebbels here...
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by Zaxxon »

I thought Scalzi's summary is one of his better posts.

But what if we... didn't?
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by Skinypupy »

Zaxxon wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:19 am I thought Scalzi's summary is one of his better posts.

But what if we... didn't?
That was excellent.

It's been said a hundred times, but our system only works because the people actually play by an established set of rules and norms. When one side decides those simply don't matter any more, then lots of things start to break down quickly.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by malchior »

Gaetz speaking one week after the 'loving and patriotic movement' beat cops on the steps of the Capitol.

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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by hepcat »

He’s not at “trot out heretofore unknown teen boy” stage yet.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by malchior »

hepcat wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 8:57 am He’s not at “trot out heretofore unknown teen boy” stage yet.
Has anyone seen the heretofore unknown teen boy since?
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

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He’s in a glass case at Gaetz’s condo near a hammer with a sign over it that reads “Break glass in case of being accused of being racist”.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by YellowKing »

In terms of "punchable faces" Gaetz is WAY up the list.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by malchior »

Adelson dead! Funny how his obit fails to mention how he helped bring fascism to America.
Sheldon Adelson, who rose from selling newspapers on Boston street corners at age 12 to one of the most successful luxury resort developers, philanthropists and political influencers of his generation, died Monday night at his home in Malibu, California. He was 87.

Adelson founded and served as Chairman and CEO of Las Vegas Sands Corp., the world’s largest gaming corporation, from its inception in 1988. He had been on medical leave from the company since Jan. 7 to resume his fight against non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma, which he had battled since 2019.

“It is with unbearable pain that I announce the death of my husband, Sheldon G. Adelson, of complications from a long illness,” his wife, Dr. Miriam Adelson, said in a Tuesday statement provided by Las Vegas Sands.

“To me — as to his children, grandchildren, and his legions of friends and admirers, employees and colleagues — he is utterly irreplaceable.”

Under Adelson’s leadership, Las Vegas Sands pioneered the integrated resort model that now dominates the Strip, combining luxury hotel-casinos with convention centers. Adelson’s concept was so popular and financially successful that he became one of the world’s wealthiest people.

Adelson shared that wealth as a generous philanthropist. Along with his wife, Dr. Miriam Adelson, he underwrote medical research, a private school, drug rehabilitation clinics and numerous other causes.

Adelson’s conservative values, love for the United States and Israel, and his desire to preserve the strongest diplomatic and cultural ties possible between the nations compelled him to embrace and support Jewish causes. He became one of America’s most influential political megadonors, contributing hundreds of millions of dollars to Republican candidates and conservative PACs over the past two decades.
Last edited by malchior on Tue Jan 12, 2021 1:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by Pyperkub »

Link goes to a different tweet.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by malchior »

Pyperkub wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 1:03 pm Link goes to a different tweet.
Fixed. Was supposed to be the newspaper source. The quote also shouldn't be the whole article. Whoops.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

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That's not going to break the hearts of folks hoping for more legal options to play online poker in the US.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

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From what I've read, there's not going to be a reset after Trump. The RNC is filled with his people, and die hard Trumpers have control of many local and state parties.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/14/us/p ... icans.html
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

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Grifman wrote: Fri Jan 15, 2021 12:08 am From what I've read, there's not going to be a reset after Trump. The RNC is filled with his people, and die hard Trumpers have control of many local and state parties.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/14/us/p ... icans.html
Ah, here it is. "On Monday, Quinnipiac University released similar findings: Trump’s overall approval dipped to 33 percent, tied for the lowest the pollster has recorded. The drop among Republicans was 18 points, to 71 percent" ... "Among Republicans, Trump’s strong approval fell from 79 to 58 percent in Quinnipiac’s poll. In Marist’s, it dropped from 74 to 64 percent. The percentage of Republicans who strongly disapprove of the president increased by nine points in Quinnipiac’s poll and by 11 in Marist’s."

More detail at the link for poll fans.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

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Don't they mean Marxist's?
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by Grifman »

Kraken wrote: Fri Jan 15, 2021 12:31 am
Grifman wrote: Fri Jan 15, 2021 12:08 am From what I've read, there's not going to be a reset after Trump. The RNC is filled with his people, and die hard Trumpers have control of many local and state parties.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/14/us/p ... icans.html
Ah, here it is. "On Monday, Quinnipiac University released similar findings: Trump’s overall approval dipped to 33 percent, tied for the lowest the pollster has recorded. The drop among Republicans was 18 points, to 71 percent" ... "Among Republicans, Trump’s strong approval fell from 79 to 58 percent in Quinnipiac’s poll. In Marist’s, it dropped from 74 to 64 percent. The percentage of Republicans who strongly disapprove of the president increased by nine points in Quinnipiac’s poll and by 11 in Marist’s."

More detail at the link for poll fans.
Yeah, but he still has strong approval at 57%, even after this. The only way for him to be out of a position of major influence is prison, which is what I am hoping for. The best thing for Democrats would be Trump imprisoned and many of his followers fade away, leaving the Republican Party crippled.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by Kraken »

Grifman wrote: Fri Jan 15, 2021 1:29 am
Kraken wrote: Fri Jan 15, 2021 12:31 am
Grifman wrote: Fri Jan 15, 2021 12:08 am From what I've read, there's not going to be a reset after Trump. The RNC is filled with his people, and die hard Trumpers have control of many local and state parties.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/14/us/p ... icans.html
Ah, here it is. "On Monday, Quinnipiac University released similar findings: Trump’s overall approval dipped to 33 percent, tied for the lowest the pollster has recorded. The drop among Republicans was 18 points, to 71 percent" ... "Among Republicans, Trump’s strong approval fell from 79 to 58 percent in Quinnipiac’s poll. In Marist’s, it dropped from 74 to 64 percent. The percentage of Republicans who strongly disapprove of the president increased by nine points in Quinnipiac’s poll and by 11 in Marist’s."

More detail at the link for poll fans.
Yeah, but he still has strong approval at 57%, even after this. The only way for him to be out of a position of major influence is prison, which is what I am hoping for. The best thing for Democrats would be Trump imprisoned and many of his followers fade away, leaving the Republican Party crippled.
Or dead of natural causes. Dead works for me.

Right now, R voters are jumping off the trump train. Ultimately only his most rabid fans will be left. Even though there are a lot of them, if the RNC doubles down on fascism they're going to regret it.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by Kurth »

Grifman wrote: Fri Jan 15, 2021 1:29 am
Kraken wrote: Fri Jan 15, 2021 12:31 am
Grifman wrote: Fri Jan 15, 2021 12:08 am From what I've read, there's not going to be a reset after Trump. The RNC is filled with his people, and die hard Trumpers have control of many local and state parties.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/14/us/p ... icans.html
Ah, here it is. "On Monday, Quinnipiac University released similar findings: Trump’s overall approval dipped to 33 percent, tied for the lowest the pollster has recorded. The drop among Republicans was 18 points, to 71 percent" ... "Among Republicans, Trump’s strong approval fell from 79 to 58 percent in Quinnipiac’s poll. In Marist’s, it dropped from 74 to 64 percent. The percentage of Republicans who strongly disapprove of the president increased by nine points in Quinnipiac’s poll and by 11 in Marist’s."

More detail at the link for poll fans.
Yeah, but he still has strong approval at 57%, even after this. The only way for him to be out of a position of major influence is prison, which is what I am hoping for. The best thing for Democrats would be Trump imprisoned and many of his followers fade away, leaving the Republican Party crippled.
I don't think that's the best thing for the Democrats at all. The best thing for the Democrats - and our republic - would be to have two functional, sane political parties. Even if you disagree with core principles of the GOP platform (or, at least, what that platform used to be), it's vital that we have options and alternatives. We all benefit from hearing competing viewpoints and ideas. The Democratic party is a big tent, and there are certainly different voices within that tent, but it's not the same as having a competing viewpoint from another party. I fear for what the Democratic party will become if it's operating in a vacuum.

I don't want to see the GOP crippled or dead. I want to see it purged of the Trumpaloos and rebuilt from the ground up, returning to principles of limited government, free market capitalism, fiscal conservatism and strong national defense.

I'm not optimistic that's going to happen at this point, but I do believe that's what we need.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by Holman »

I agree with that, but the first step towards accomplishing it is for the GOP to spend a few cycles in the political wilderness.

Without consequences, they'll never change.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by Pyperkub »

Kraken wrote: Fri Jan 15, 2021 1:56 am
Grifman wrote: Fri Jan 15, 2021 1:29 am
Kraken wrote: Fri Jan 15, 2021 12:31 am
Grifman wrote: Fri Jan 15, 2021 12:08 am From what I've read, there's not going to be a reset after Trump. The RNC is filled with his people, and die hard Trumpers have control of many local and state parties.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/14/us/p ... icans.html
Ah, here it is. "On Monday, Quinnipiac University released similar findings: Trump’s overall approval dipped to 33 percent, tied for the lowest the pollster has recorded. The drop among Republicans was 18 points, to 71 percent" ... "Among Republicans, Trump’s strong approval fell from 79 to 58 percent in Quinnipiac’s poll. In Marist’s, it dropped from 74 to 64 percent. The percentage of Republicans who strongly disapprove of the president increased by nine points in Quinnipiac’s poll and by 11 in Marist’s."

More detail at the link for poll fans.
Yeah, but he still has strong approval at 57%, even after this. The only way for him to be out of a position of major influence is prison, which is what I am hoping for. The best thing for Democrats would be Trump imprisoned and many of his followers fade away, leaving the Republican Party crippled.
Or dead of natural causes. Dead works for me.

Right now, R voters are jumping off the trump train. Ultimately only his most rabid fans will be left. Even though there are a lot of them, if the RNC doubles down on fascism they're going to regret it.
the 95% of House Representatives voting against Impeachment doesn't tell me that (yet).
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

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IMO the big problem with a rebuilt GOP is they will fight climate change measures, and we have already lost four years on that front and are running out of time.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

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Jaymann wrote: Fri Jan 15, 2021 1:53 pm IMO the big problem with a rebuilt GOP is they will fight climate change measures, and we have already lost four years on that front and are running out of time.
Maybe someone will find a way to use the corpses of crotchety old Republicans to fuel cars.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by Kurth »

Jaymann wrote: Fri Jan 15, 2021 1:53 pm IMO the big problem with a rebuilt GOP is they will fight climate change measures, and we have already lost four years on that front and are running out of time.
I don’t know that to be true. Prior to the GOP’s currrent demonization of the sciences, environmentalism was actually a cause many Republicans supported.

There’s definitely some tension there between the desire for deregulation/limited government, but, in theory, preserving the environment is not antithetical to being a Republican. Not by a long shot.

And I’d reemphasize that even in pursuit of a goal we all should be 100% behind (and addressing climate change is certainly one of those), it’s critical to have dissenting views, at least as to the way we should be going about that goal.

I’d like to see a GOP that fully acknowledges the dangers of climate change and the scientifically established causes, but also was a tempering influence trying to get after the problem in a way that did not crush businesses, grow the beurocracy, and cause undue harm to the economy.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by YellowKing »

I used to think that "compassionate conservatism" was a thing, but I no longer believe there's anything anywhere close to that. And until there is, I'm not sure how you fix it. A party interested only in advancing a selfish Christian white agenda is never going to be an acceptable alternative.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by The Meal »

Kurth wrote: Fri Jan 15, 2021 2:09 pm
Jaymann wrote: Fri Jan 15, 2021 1:53 pm IMO the big problem with a rebuilt GOP is they will fight climate change measures, and we have already lost four years on that front and are running out of time.
I don’t know that to be true. Prior to the GOP’s currrent demonization of the sciences, environmentalism was actually a cause many Republicans supported.
Good point. We've lost closer to 30 years on that front.
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