Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2016?

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LordMortis
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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2016?

Post by LordMortis »

http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense ... ffect.html

So is it voter intimidation to prove who you voted for or is it voter intimidation to throw out your vote if you take a selfie because you don't understand that the privacy of your vote is mandatory.

I won't go so far as to say people are stupid. But come on, now, why would you feel the need to do this? I just read that one of Trump's sons put his ballot up on Twitter.

I don't even understand how it's OK to take pictures of people at the ballots. That seems wrong on some intuitive level. Well, it's off to my fortress of solitude and CivVI...
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LordMortis
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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2016?

Post by LordMortis »

Spilled milk but interesting just the same. Biden's ruminating on the election. Too much to find a pretty caption to point at.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/17/maga ... p_1=546029
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Kraken
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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2016?

Post by Kraken »

Donna Brazile claims that she considered replacing Clinton with Biden.

Yeah, apparently she had the authority to do that. Technically, at least.
Former Democratic National Committee head Donna Brazile writes in a new book that she seriously contemplated replacing Hillary Clinton as the party’s 2016 presidential nominee with then-Vice President Biden in the aftermath of Clinton’s fainting spell, in part because Clinton’s campaign was “anemic” and had taken on “the odor of failure.”

In an explosive new memoir, Brazile details widespread dysfunction and dissension throughout the Democratic Party, including secret deliberations over using her powers as interim DNC chair to initiate the process of removing Clinton and running mate Sen. Tim Kaine (Va.) from the ticket after Clinton’s Sept. 11, 2016, collapse in New York City.

Brazile writes that she considered a dozen combinations to replace the nominees and settled on Biden and Sen. Cory Booker (N.J.), the duo she felt most certain would win over enough working-class voters to defeat Republican Donald Trump. But then, she writes, “I thought of Hillary, and all the women in the country who were so proud of and excited about her. I could not do this to them.”
Biden would have crushed it, amiright? So now we have someone new to blame for Trump. If Biden would have submitted to a draft, anyway.
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Defiant
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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2016?

Post by Defiant »

Kraken wrote: Sat Nov 04, 2017 6:30 pm Donna Brazile claims that she considered replacing Clinton with Biden.

Yeah, apparently she had the authority to do that. Technically, at least.
Former Democratic National Committee head Donna Brazile writes in a new book that she seriously contemplated replacing Hillary Clinton as the party’s 2016 presidential nominee with then-Vice President Biden in the aftermath of Clinton’s fainting spell, in part because Clinton’s campaign was “anemic” and had taken on “the odor of failure.”

In an explosive new memoir, Brazile details widespread dysfunction and dissension throughout the Democratic Party, including secret deliberations over using her powers as interim DNC chair to initiate the process of removing Clinton and running mate Sen. Tim Kaine (Va.) from the ticket after Clinton’s Sept. 11, 2016, collapse in New York City.

Brazile writes that she considered a dozen combinations to replace the nominees and settled on Biden and Sen. Cory Booker (N.J.), the duo she felt most certain would win over enough working-class voters to defeat Republican Donald Trump. But then, she writes, “I thought of Hillary, and all the women in the country who were so proud of and excited about her. I could not do this to them.”
Biden would have crushed it, amiright? So now we have someone new to blame for Trump. If Biden would have submitted to a draft, anyway.
I think Biden would have won for sure had he been the nominee from the start - I'm less sure if that would have been the case if he had been a last minute replacement (especially if it soon became clear that Clinton wasn't serious condition and some Clinton supporters felt it had been stolen from her). I think it would be so unusual that I don't think it would be as easy to predict.

But, given that Brazille spent money in *non-competitive* states to drum up Clinton's popular vote margin, rather than in competitive states, she might still have her share of the blame even if that wasn't the case.
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El Guapo
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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2016?

Post by El Guapo »

So to sum up, Brazile is saying:

(1) Despite finding (as she describes it) no evidence of actual skewed decisions by the DNC, a fundraising agreement covering the general election (that Sanders was also offered) made the DNC primary tainted / rigged; and

(2) as head of the DNC she considered replacing Clinton (who millions of people voted for in the presidential primary) with Biden (who exactly no one voted for in the presidential primary), because she didn't like how Clinton was running her campaign.
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Holman
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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2016?

Post by Holman »

Given that we're revisiting and everything, this seems like a fitting time to note once again that Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama each received more votes than any white man who ever ran for president.
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Chrisoc13
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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2016?

Post by Chrisoc13 »

Holman wrote:Given that we're revisiting and everything, this seems like a fitting time to note once again that Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama each received more votes than any white man who ever ran for president.
Man this comment is a real head Shaker.
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Rip
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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2016?

Post by Rip »

I'll play.

Trump received more votes than any other white man who ever ran for President.
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Holman
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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2016?

Post by Holman »

Chrisoc13 wrote: Sun Nov 05, 2017 7:08 am
Holman wrote:Given that we're revisiting and everything, this seems like a fitting time to note once again that Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama each received more votes than any white man who ever ran for president.
Man this comment is a real head Shaker.
The point is that the narrative "Clinton's campaign was a failure and no one liked her or supported her" is plainly false.
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Papa Smurph
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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2016?

Post by Papa Smurph »

Rip wrote: Sun Nov 05, 2017 8:05 am I'll play.

Trump received more votes than any other white man who ever ran for President.
What is your point? This is true, but so is Holman's. And, while your point is not surprising, given that the countries population is ever increasing, Holman's point is surprising because the country has for so long been dominated by white men. The fact that the most voted for presidential candidates in the history of the country are a black man and a white woman is actually quite amazing. It does give me hope that we can reclaim this country from the tyranny of the white male again. Maybe with the first black woman president!? Assuming she was a good candidate, that would be amazing.
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Rip
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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2016?

Post by Rip »

Papa Smurph wrote: Sun Nov 05, 2017 10:47 am
Rip wrote: Sun Nov 05, 2017 8:05 am I'll play.

Trump received more votes than any other white man who ever ran for President.
What is your point? This is true, but so is Holman's. And, while your point is not surprising, given that the countries population is ever increasing, Holman's point is surprising because the country has for so long been dominated by white men. The fact that the most voted for presidential candidates in the history of the country are a black man and a white woman is actually quite amazing. It does give me hope that we can reclaim this country from the tyranny of the white male again. Maybe with the first black woman president!? Assuming she was a good candidate, that would be amazing.
It isn't really surprising at all. Simple matter of the last few elections having far more votes cast than any before had. Whoever won was bound to be the highest ever.

Even then I don't know that it really says much. If anything the largest vote margin would be the important metric and you won't like what you see when you look at which Presidents got the highest margin of the vote.

1. Warren Harding 26%
2. Calvin Coolidge 25%
3. Franklin Roosevelt(1936) 24%
4. Richard Nixon 23%
5. Lyndon Johnson 22%
6. Theodore Roosevelt 19%
7. Ronald Reagan 18%
8. Andrew Jackson 18%
9. Franklin Roosevelt(1932) 18%
10.Herbert Hoover 17%
.
.
.
.
26. Barack Obama 4%

Hillary Clinton 2%

Raw numbers don't mean crap anymore across time than raw dollars do. Which would be cool since I could call myself richer than my wealthy ancestors even though I am dirt poor.

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El Guapo
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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2016?

Post by El Guapo »

Brazile: I found no evidence Democratic primary was rigged.

I still don't know what Brazile was really saying about this whole thing, other than "buy my books" and "Sanders please hire me for your 2020 campaign". There's no evidence of rigging, only this Clinton - DNC fundraising agreement (which Howard Dean said appears to have been standard operating procedure for 15 years) somehow was deeply unethical / cancerous for...reasons.

Not sure what to ultimately make of this, beyond that the odds of me voting either for Warren or for any campaign affiliated with Brazile in the 2020 democratic primaries went way down.
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YellowKing
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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2016?

Post by YellowKing »

I've never been able to stand Brazile. She's always come off as a smug troublemaker, so it's no real surprise she's stirring the pot.
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El Guapo
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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2016?

Post by El Guapo »

YellowKing wrote: Mon Nov 06, 2017 4:47 pm I've never been able to stand Brazile. She's always come off as a smug troublemaker, so it's no real surprise she's stirring the pot.
The other detail I enjoyed is that apparently Brazile suggested to Clinton that she treat her September pneumonia with acupuncture.

I can't imagine how Gore lost the 2000 election with her as his campaign manager.
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