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Political Randomness

For discussion of religion and politics

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RunningMn9
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Re: Political Randomness

Post by RunningMn9 »

I said they would disagree, I didn’t say they were right. In their eyes, they have empathy for friends and family and things that they know. I would agree that that’s not really empathy, but they think it is.
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Make up bags of change
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Re: Political Randomness

Post by Isgrimnur »

Isgrimnur wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 5:58 pm CBS News: Satirical paper Charlie Hebdo reruns Muhammad cartoons as 14 go on trial for Paris attacks
As the trial opened on Wednesday, the newspaper republished some of the cartoons, under the headline: "Tout ça pour ça" (All that for this).
BBC, 22 October
Seven people have been charged over the death of a French teacher who was beheaded close to his school last week.

Samuel Paty, 47, was targeted for showing cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad to his students.

His killer, 18-year-old Abdullakh Anzorov, was shot dead by police shortly after last Friday's attack.
BBC, 30 October
France has been plunged into mourning after three people were killed in a knife attack at a church in the southern French city of Nice.

The knifeman launched Thursday's attack inside the Notre-Dame basilica, leaving a scene police described as a "vision of horror".

World leaders have expressed solidarity with France in the wake of what President Emmanuel Macron called an "Islamist terrorist attack".

It is the second suspected Islamist extremist attack on French soil in less than two weeks.
BBC, 31 October
A Greek Orthodox priest has been seriously wounded in a shooting in the French city of Lyon, officials say.

The gunman fled the scene, sparking a manhunt. A suspect resembling witness descriptions was later taken into custody.
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Re: Political Randomness

Post by Kraken »

gbasden wrote: Sat Oct 31, 2020 4:32 pm
The Republicans, to me, do seem to continue to do things that I believe are straight up evil. Voter suppression and disenfranchisement, accelerating a pandemic, stoking white supremacy and encouraging xenophobia just scratch the surface. This hasn't pushed me to change my core policy beliefs, but it certainly has radicalized me as to how the Democrats could potentially govern. We absolutely cannot afford another two years like the first two years of the Obama administration where we pretend everything is fixed and we are back to normal. If the D's take have the Presidency and Congress they *must* take actions to counteract the systemic issues that got us here.
Agreed. If the Dems win the sweepstakes they will most likely only have the Senate for two years and a hostile SCOTUS. They will also have a mandate, and must wield power while they can. They mustn't dither and court Rep support that will never come. Caution and cooperation are in Biden's nature, so I hope he learned that lesson.
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Re: Political Randomness

Post by malchior »

This is going great y'all.

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Re: Political Randomness

Post by Holman »

Kraken wrote: Sat Oct 31, 2020 9:25 pm
gbasden wrote: Sat Oct 31, 2020 4:32 pm
The Republicans, to me, do seem to continue to do things that I believe are straight up evil. Voter suppression and disenfranchisement, accelerating a pandemic, stoking white supremacy and encouraging xenophobia just scratch the surface. This hasn't pushed me to change my core policy beliefs, but it certainly has radicalized me as to how the Democrats could potentially govern. We absolutely cannot afford another two years like the first two years of the Obama administration where we pretend everything is fixed and we are back to normal. If the D's take have the Presidency and Congress they *must* take actions to counteract the systemic issues that got us here.
Agreed. If the Dems win the sweepstakes they will most likely only have the Senate for two years and a hostile SCOTUS. They will also have a mandate, and must wield power while they can. They mustn't dither and court Rep support that will never come. Caution and cooperation are in Biden's nature, so I hope he learned that lesson.
I'm optimistic because 2022 is a Dem-friendly year in the senate. Dems are defending almost a dozen deep-blue seats while the GOP is defending 20, many of which are purple or expected to go Blue this year.
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Re: Political Randomness

Post by Kraken »

Holman wrote: Sun Nov 01, 2020 8:42 pm
Kraken wrote: Sat Oct 31, 2020 9:25 pm
gbasden wrote: Sat Oct 31, 2020 4:32 pm
The Republicans, to me, do seem to continue to do things that I believe are straight up evil. Voter suppression and disenfranchisement, accelerating a pandemic, stoking white supremacy and encouraging xenophobia just scratch the surface. This hasn't pushed me to change my core policy beliefs, but it certainly has radicalized me as to how the Democrats could potentially govern. We absolutely cannot afford another two years like the first two years of the Obama administration where we pretend everything is fixed and we are back to normal. If the D's take have the Presidency and Congress they *must* take actions to counteract the systemic issues that got us here.
Agreed. If the Dems win the sweepstakes they will most likely only have the Senate for two years and a hostile SCOTUS. They will also have a mandate, and must wield power while they can. They mustn't dither and court Rep support that will never come. Caution and cooperation are in Biden's nature, so I hope he learned that lesson.
I'm optimistic because 2022 is a Dem-friendly year in the senate. Dems are defending almost a dozen deep-blue seats while the GOP is defending 20, many of which are purple or expected to go Blue this year.
I'm just anticipating the usual midterm backlash. If they can hold the Senate for four years, so much the better.
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Re: Political Randomness

Post by Skinypupy »

Kraken wrote: Sun Nov 01, 2020 10:10 pm
Holman wrote: Sun Nov 01, 2020 8:42 pm
Kraken wrote: Sat Oct 31, 2020 9:25 pm
gbasden wrote: Sat Oct 31, 2020 4:32 pm
The Republicans, to me, do seem to continue to do things that I believe are straight up evil. Voter suppression and disenfranchisement, accelerating a pandemic, stoking white supremacy and encouraging xenophobia just scratch the surface. This hasn't pushed me to change my core policy beliefs, but it certainly has radicalized me as to how the Democrats could potentially govern. We absolutely cannot afford another two years like the first two years of the Obama administration where we pretend everything is fixed and we are back to normal. If the D's take have the Presidency and Congress they *must* take actions to counteract the systemic issues that got us here.
Agreed. If the Dems win the sweepstakes they will most likely only have the Senate for two years and a hostile SCOTUS. They will also have a mandate, and must wield power while they can. They mustn't dither and court Rep support that will never come. Caution and cooperation are in Biden's nature, so I hope he learned that lesson.
I'm optimistic because 2022 is a Dem-friendly year in the senate. Dems are defending almost a dozen deep-blue seats while the GOP is defending 20, many of which are purple or expected to go Blue this year.
I'm just anticipating the usual midterm backlash. If they can hold the Senate for four years, so much the better.
It comes back to the issue that I don't think there are scores of people enthusiastically voting for Biden. There are, however, lots of people very enthusiastically voting against Trump. Take that away, and you're left with someone who is going to be responsible for cleaning up a massive amount of damage on multiple fronts, with a conservative media that will be howling about 'WHY ISN'T THIS DONE YET?!" from the very moment he takes office.

Given American's notoriously short collective attention spans, it wouldn't surprise me for things to swing back to the right quite a bit when Biden hasn't magically fixed everything by Jan 30.

(All assuming he wins, of course)
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Re: Political Randomness

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And you'll have all the GOP and half the country pushing back against him.
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Re: Political Randomness

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Biden's being oversold and there will be a lot of disappointment because of it. Life won't change, it will just become less hopeless. COVID will still be there, our massive debt will still be there, unemployment, healthcare, China, Russia, they'll all still be there waiting for us.

Just like Obama merely brought competent leadership and not wholesale change likewise Biden, assuming he wins (folks, it's in the bag!!!), will just get us back to competent leadership and out of endless missteps and national embarrassments.

It's a low bar and people expecting some magical fairy land will quickly meet disillusionment.
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Re: Political Randomness

Post by YellowKing »

At this point I'll take low bar. Competent national leadership on the pandemic, reinstatement of American in the Paris Accord and other treaties Trump destroyed, halt the dismantlement of the Affordable Care Act, and reversal of Trump's most devastating executive orders. Yes, I'll take low bar all day long.
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Re: Political Randomness

Post by LawBeefaroni »

YellowKing wrote: Mon Nov 02, 2020 11:48 am At this point I'll take low bar. Competent national leadership on the pandemic, reinstatement of American in the Paris Accord and other treaties Trump destroyed, halt the dismantlement of the Affordable Care Act, and reversal of Trump's most devastating executive orders. Yes, I'll take low bar all day long.
Oh, I will too. I just think there will be a lot of people fired up and wanting more and 2022 will see some major infighting rather than continued relief.
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Re: Political Randomness

Post by YellowKing »

Yeah I've already read some pundit rumbling that Biden's vastly overestimating his chances of working with the current Republican party. This ain't Biden's GOP from back in Nineteen Hundred and Doodly-Doo.

I'm sure the progressive wing is really going to push for big changes, but Biden's going to be busy just stabilizing the country from Trump's destruction for at least 2 years.
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Re: Political Randomness

Post by malchior »

YellowKing wrote: Mon Nov 02, 2020 11:51 am Yeah I've already read some pundit rumbling that Biden's vastly overestimating his chances of working with the current Republican party. This ain't Biden's GOP from back in Nineteen Hundred and Doodly-Doo.

I'm sure the progressive wing is really going to push for big changes, but Biden's going to be busy just stabilizing the country from Trump's destruction for at least 2 years.
Exactly. This is one of my Biden concerns that I've held since the primary race. It isn't clear anymore if this is what he is saying to bridge the gap or if he believes it. If he believes it then we're in real trouble. The best outcome will rely on them using the probable big win to 'stabilize democracy' and 'institutions' in the short-term. It is infuriating that he'll have to waste political capital on that but it is necessary. If he thinks he is doing that with Republican cooperation...he'll spend quite some time being strung along by them as they wage a strategic withdrawal.
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Re: Political Randomness

Post by El Guapo »

malchior wrote: Mon Nov 02, 2020 12:02 pm
YellowKing wrote: Mon Nov 02, 2020 11:51 am Yeah I've already read some pundit rumbling that Biden's vastly overestimating his chances of working with the current Republican party. This ain't Biden's GOP from back in Nineteen Hundred and Doodly-Doo.

I'm sure the progressive wing is really going to push for big changes, but Biden's going to be busy just stabilizing the country from Trump's destruction for at least 2 years.
Exactly. This is one of my Biden concerns that I've held since the primary race. It isn't clear anymore if this is what he is saying to bridge the gap or if he believes it. If he believes it then we're in real trouble. The best outcome will rely on them using the probable big win to 'stabilize democracy' and 'institutions' in the short-term. It is infuriating that he'll have to waste political capital on that but it is necessary. If he thinks he is doing that with Republican cooperation...he'll spend quite some time being strung along by them as they wage a strategic withdrawal.
Yeah, I worry that he'll spend too much time tilting at bipartisan windmills. We'll see - Harry Reid recently said that Biden should spend no more than three weeks testing GOP willingness to be bipartisan, and then should kill the filibuster if they're not.

Of course right now this is all in the "problems that I hope to have in early 2021" category.
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Re: Political Randomness

Post by Ralph-Wiggum »

While there are a whole suite of issues I hope Biden tries to address (and maybe if things go really well tomorrow and we have a majority in the Senate, he'll be able to address), I really just want to go back to the time without constant scandals, rhetoric, and decisions that make my stress levels and blood pressure skyrocket.
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Re: Political Randomness

Post by Paingod »

Ralph-Wiggum wrote: Mon Nov 02, 2020 12:15 pmI really just want to go back to the time without constant scandals, rhetoric, and decisions that make my stress levels and blood pressure skyrocket.
Also known as "I can sleep at night again"
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Re: Political Randomness

Post by dbt1949 »

The Trump presidency has sure showed me the demographics of this country like never expected.
I never realized we had so many right wing nut jobs before. I don't mean right wing leaning, I mean nut jobs.
I would not be as willing to give my life for my country as I once was.
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Re: Political Randomness

Post by malchior »

And while we are at it - some normal business. Fuck ICE. Dismantle it.

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Re: Political Randomness

Post by Isgrimnur »

CNN
Gunmen with automatic weapons opened fire at six locations in central Vienna on Monday evening, killing at least one person and injuring 15, including a police officer, according to Austrian authorities.

One gunman has been shot dead by police. Authorities are urging the public to stay inside while the other gunmen -- it is unclear how many there are in total -- remain at large.

Austrian Chancellor Sebastian Kurz and Interior Minister Karl Nehammer have described the incident as a "terror attack."
...
Gunfire erupted in the Austrian capital at around 8 p.m. local time, hours before the start of a nationwide lockdown to combat a resurgence of Covid-19, according to police.

Vienna's mayor Michael Ludwig said the attackers started randomly shooting at people in a busy district packed with cafes and restaurants near Vienna's main synagogue, Seitenstettengasse Temple.
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Re: Political Randomness

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malchior wrote: Mon Nov 02, 2020 8:06 pm And while we are at it - some normal business. Fuck ICE. Dismantle it.

Without an attorney, Bowman represented herself in immigration court until this week. In the course of her complex legal and immigration cases, she asked for asylum and, after it was denied, languished in immigration detention.


It's appalling that she didn't have representation.
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Re: Political Randomness

Post by malchior »

LawBeefaroni wrote: Mon Nov 02, 2020 9:56 pm
malchior wrote: Mon Nov 02, 2020 8:06 pm And while we are at it - some normal business. Fuck ICE. Dismantle it.

Without an attorney, Bowman represented herself in immigration court until this week. In the course of her complex legal and immigration cases, she asked for asylum and, after it was denied, languished in immigration detention.


It's appalling that she didn't have representation.
It also reveals how shabby the process probably is. If a person who has been living here for *checks notes* almost 50 years, gets hauled in by the these ICE fascists, claims they are a US Citizen, and the fucking judges are blowing her off...well, you have to wonder how many legitimate citizens have been deported by this broken process. Also she is a material witness in an ongoing investigation. The whole thing just makes me wonder what the heck has happened here. It's a shit show.
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Re: Political Randomness

Post by Daehawk »

Starting to think when speaking to a Trumper its better to talk reason to them and hope they see the truth rather than tell them the truth and hope they see reason.
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Re: Political Randomness

Post by RunningMn9 »

Daehawk wrote:Starting to think when speaking to a Trumper its better to talk reason to them and hope they see the truth rather than tell them the truth and hope they see reason.
Neither is going to work. Their position isn’t based on truth or reason. It’s based on belief.
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Re: Political Randomness

Post by LordMortis »

RunningMn9 wrote: Wed Nov 04, 2020 2:52 pm
Daehawk wrote:Starting to think when speaking to a Trumper its better to talk reason to them and hope they see the truth rather than tell them the truth and hope they see reason.
Neither is going to work. Their position isn’t based on truth or reason. It’s based on belief.
This is my experience. Empathy looked like it was going to work for some. My father and I got on the same page and I sincerely believed, if nothing else, he'd not vote for Trump but out of nowhere, he became part of the group the feared Kamala (and Pelosi) and that was that. So while this is the second election I intentionally voted all blue, this was the first election my father intentionally voted all red. He's the kind of person who is is sympathetic/empathetic. I don't imagine the masses are plentiful in those regards. My mom won't talk about it, and she's actually more conservative than my father, but I pretty much guarantee that did not vote for Trump. I can't say she voted for Biden, but I see no way his character could be overlooked by her. She is the model of compassionate, empathetic, conservative, protestant, libertarian that so many like to pose as. This presidency does follow the golden rule.

OTOH, there are Trump voters who are reasonable and see truth. They are Trumpers and they do need to be worked with. I hope Biden comes out on top and he turns out to be the man to do it. This course is bad course. It's the reason I thought Warren was the wrong person for this election. Only, even now, it's clearer to me how much worse it is than I thought six months ago, which was so much worse than I thought 4 years ago.
dbt1949 wrote: Mon Nov 02, 2020 6:29 pm I would not be as willing to give my life for my country as I once was.
Ditto (though the military didn't draft me and, in fact, said "No thank. Please don't waste the tax payers money by taking the ASVAB" when I tried to enlist). Though I'm one step worse. Patriot used to be a word that instilled pride. Now when I see the word attached to anything it instills mistrust. I find I am more often shamed of my nationality over the exceptional and blessed way I used to feel. I am not disenfranchised. I am part of the problem. I am ... franchised? And I can't fix it.
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Re: Political Randomness

Post by Kraken »

LordMortis wrote: Wed Nov 04, 2020 3:34 pm It's the reason I thought Warren was the wrong person for this election.
You were right; trump would've mopped the floor with her. Warren's a policy wonk and policy barely even came up because trump didn't have any. Plus, she's female. And Pocahontas. Never mind that she's one of the best administrators I've ever seen.

Unfortunately she's too old to run in '28, so I hope MA can finagle her replacement being a D if she takes a cabinet post. Under current law, our R governor would name her successor, but laws change, and she deserves a cabinet post. She's wasted in the Senate minority.
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Re: Political Randomness

Post by Holman »

Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.
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Re: Political Randomness

Post by hitbyambulance »

why don't we get some 'new green deals' going on in like, Appalachia and the Rust Belt and suchlike? would non-college-educated whites really be against jobs like this?
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Re: Political Randomness

Post by LawBeefaroni »

hitbyambulance wrote: Fri Nov 06, 2020 12:42 am would non-college-educated whites really be against jobs like this?
Yes, up until the moment they got them.
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Re: Political Randomness

Post by LordMortis »

LawBeefaroni wrote: Fri Nov 06, 2020 12:46 am
hitbyambulance wrote: Fri Nov 06, 2020 12:42 am would non-college-educated whites really be against jobs like this?
Yes, up until the moment they got them.
Then they would embrace their "green" jobs but attack the concept. I've seen enough UAW buy American rhetoric to know how that works. We (everyone) are protective of our own. I don't entirely blame us.

That said, is non-college-educated whites really the demographic or is the ven diagram in there somewhere to better describe them? That's an actual question.
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Re: Political Randomness

Post by noxiousdog »

LordMortis wrote: Fri Nov 06, 2020 8:27 am
LawBeefaroni wrote: Fri Nov 06, 2020 12:46 am
hitbyambulance wrote: Fri Nov 06, 2020 12:42 am would non-college-educated whites really be against jobs like this?
Yes, up until the moment they got them.
Then they would embrace their "green" jobs but attack the concept. I've seen enough UAW buy American rhetoric to know how that works. We (everyone) are protective of our own. I don't entirely blame us.

That said, is non-college-educated whites really the demographic or is the ven diagram in there somewhere to better describe them? That's an actual question.
Yes.. Oil/Gas/refinery workers get paid extremely well and no college degree is required. Any danger to their paycheck is absolutely going to be met with hostility and denial. Without the education, the broader picture is missed.
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Re: Political Randomness

Post by LawBeefaroni »

One hopes that EV Hummers and F150s can change a few minds.
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Re: Political Randomness

Post by noxiousdog »

LawBeefaroni wrote: Fri Nov 06, 2020 9:45 am One hopes that EV Hummers and F150s can change a few minds.
It just has to be met with new jobs. That's really how to do it.
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Re: Political Randomness

Post by stessier »

noxiousdog wrote: Fri Nov 06, 2020 9:58 am
LawBeefaroni wrote: Fri Nov 06, 2020 9:45 am One hopes that EV Hummers and F150s can change a few minds.
It just has to be met with new jobs. That's really how to do it.
There will be fewer jobs and they will be different jobs. People don't like change.
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Re: Political Randomness

Post by noxiousdog »

stessier wrote: Fri Nov 06, 2020 10:12 am
noxiousdog wrote: Fri Nov 06, 2020 9:58 am
LawBeefaroni wrote: Fri Nov 06, 2020 9:45 am One hopes that EV Hummers and F150s can change a few minds.
It just has to be met with new jobs. That's really how to do it.
There will be fewer jobs and they will be different jobs. People don't like change.
Indeed. Hence a significant amount of red voters.
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Re: Political Randomness

Post by malchior »

Hey at least someone has a moral bar.

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Re: Political Randomness

Post by Little Raven »

Well this will be interesting.
Voters in Missouri approved amending their state constitution this week with a subtle change that could spark a national legal fight over who is counted in voting districts.

In general, political mapmakers around the country have long drawn state legislative districts once a decade based on the total number of people living in an area as determined by the latest census results.

With the support of more than 51% of those who voted on the ballot measure, Republican state lawmakers have changed redistricting requirements so that going forward districts have to "be drawn on the basis of one person, one vote," according to the newly-passed Amendment 3.

It's not clear exactly how the phrase "one person, one vote" will be interpreted when the state's voting maps are expected to be redrawn next year by either bipartisan commissions or judges from Missouri's appellate courts. There is no requirement under Amendment 3 for Missouri to stop redistricting based on total population.

"So 'one person, one vote,' the criteria is based on the number of actual eligible voters in a relevant district as opposed to an absolute population," Sauer told state appeals court Judge Alok Ahuja during a hearing for a lawsuit over how the amendment was presented on election ballots, which did not go into any detail about how the redistricting criteria would be modified.
So, to whatever Machiavellian politician thought this up....Clever Girl.

And to whoever voted for it...WTF, man?
/. "She climbed backwards out her
\/ window into Outside Over There."
malchior
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Re: Political Randomness

Post by malchior »

Oh shocking - another GOP attack on democracy.
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dbt1949
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Re: Political Randomness

Post by dbt1949 »

I think Trump should hold a victory rally this evening.
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Jaymann
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Re: Political Randomness

Post by Jaymann »

dbt1949 wrote: Fri Nov 06, 2020 8:38 pm I think Trump should hold a victory rally this evening.
Only if he can get Paula White to speak in tongues.
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Alefroth
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Re: Political Randomness

Post by Alefroth »

Jaymann wrote: Fri Nov 06, 2020 8:44 pm
dbt1949 wrote: Fri Nov 06, 2020 8:38 pm I think Trump should hold a victory rally this evening.
Only if he can get Paula White to speak in tongues.
That isn't difficult.
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