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Political Randomness

For discussion of religion and politics

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geezer
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Re: Political Randomness

Post by geezer » Wed Nov 21, 2018 1:12 pm

Most: Obama (but a hair more lefty, probably because of my strong agreement on environmentalism and the social stuff)
Least: Trump

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YellowKing
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Re: Political Randomness

Post by YellowKing » Wed Nov 21, 2018 1:17 pm

Most: Obama
Least: Trump

What a difference a few years makes.

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Exodor
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Re: Political Randomness

Post by Exodor » Wed Nov 21, 2018 1:38 pm

Most:Pablo Iglesias (Spanish left-wing leader)
Least: Trump

Image

And I thought I was getting more moderate in my old age...

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Re: Political Randomness

Post by gilraen » Wed Nov 21, 2018 2:06 pm

Exodor wrote:
Wed Nov 21, 2018 1:38 pm
Most:Pablo Iglesias (Spanish left-wing leader)
Least: Trump
I'm 4 hexes to the right of you (same row). Most similar to AMLO, least similar to Trump.

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Re: Political Randomness

Post by Daehawk » Wed Nov 21, 2018 2:40 pm

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Re: Political Randomness

Post by malchior » Wed Nov 21, 2018 2:50 pm

Most: Trump
Least: Obama

Wait. Got that backwards.

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Re: Political Randomness

Post by Formix » Wed Nov 21, 2018 2:57 pm

Most: AMLO
Least: Trumpilthinskin

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Re: Political Randomness

Post by Jeff V » Wed Nov 21, 2018 3:12 pm

Formix wrote:
Wed Nov 21, 2018 2:57 pm
Most: AMLO
Least: Trumpilthinskin
Same.

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Holman
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Re: Political Randomness

Post by Holman » Wed Nov 21, 2018 4:27 pm

I came out 4 hexes directly left of Obama, least similar to Donald Trump.
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Re: Political Randomness

Post by Kraken » Wed Nov 21, 2018 4:29 pm

Most: Amlo (I'm starting to think a fix is in; we have a lot of Amlos here)

Least: Trump. Duh.

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Re: Political Randomness

Post by Enough » Wed Nov 21, 2018 4:38 pm

Kraken wrote:
Wed Nov 21, 2018 4:29 pm
Most: Amlo (I'm starting to think a fix is in; we have a lot of Amlos here)

Least: Trump. Duh.
Me too, yikes.
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Re: Political Randomness

Post by Brian » Wed Nov 21, 2018 4:40 pm

Enough wrote:
Wed Nov 21, 2018 4:38 pm
Kraken wrote:
Wed Nov 21, 2018 4:29 pm
Most: Amlo (I'm starting to think a fix is in; we have a lot of Amlos here)

Least: Trump. Duh.
Me too, yikes.
Chalk up another one
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gbasden
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Re: Political Randomness

Post by gbasden » Wed Nov 21, 2018 10:08 pm

Holman wrote:
Wed Nov 21, 2018 4:27 pm
I came out 4 hexes directly left of Obama, least similar to Donald Trump.
7 hexes left of Obama, of course also least similar to Trump.

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Fitzy
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Re: Political Randomness

Post by Fitzy » Thu Nov 22, 2018 2:09 pm

Is Trump the only option right of the line? Everyone seems to be getting him as least similar.

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Re: Political Randomness

Post by Max Peck » Thu Nov 22, 2018 2:41 pm

Fitzy wrote:
Thu Nov 22, 2018 2:09 pm
Is Trump the only option right of the line? Everyone seems to be getting him as least similar.
Enlarge Image

It's interesting to see so many people scoring closest to AMLO, given that he rates as high as Trump on the populism axis. Apparently populism is more popular hereabouts than I'd have guessed.
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Re: Political Randomness

Post by Kraken » Thu Nov 22, 2018 5:13 pm

Fitzy wrote:
Thu Nov 22, 2018 2:09 pm
Is Trump the only option right of the line? Everyone seems to be getting him as least similar.
Trump's the farthest right, so he's going to be the farthest away if you're to the left at all. You'd have to answer all of the questions wrong to be in the same vicinity as him.

IDK how those questions determined one's degree of populism, except insofar as politicians should listen to and work for the people as opposed to serving the oligarchy and their corporations. If that's the definition of populism, then I am one...although it wouldn't occur to me to self-identify as such.

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Re: Political Randomness

Post by Madmarcus » Thu Nov 22, 2018 8:36 pm

Most similar to Noxiousdog. Or Macron if you stick to people listed in the chart.

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Re: Political Randomness

Post by Holman » Thu Nov 22, 2018 8:51 pm

Max Peck wrote:
Thu Nov 22, 2018 2:41 pm

It's interesting to see so many people scoring closest to AMLO, given that he rates as high as Trump on the populism axis. Apparently populism is more popular hereabouts than I'd have guessed.
I'd want to see a breakdown of what in the (very limited) quiz counts for left populism and right populism.

I assume that I came in (like Obama) beneath the populist line because (a) I rejected the idea that my political opponents are necessarily evil and (b) I rejected the idea that information is largely being withheld by the powerful.

I'd guess that (many-to-most) lefties who say info is being withheld are thinking of (e.g.) NSA surveillance expansion and black-site military activities. Meanwhile, I suspect that Trumpian populists who make the same choice are embracing conspiracy theories running from Climate-Change-is-a-hoax to Hillary's multiple murders to Q-Anon Deep State treason.

If this is the case, Right Populists should be scoring far higher on the Y-axis than Left Populists. I don't think the quiz allows for this.

[edited for reasonability]
Last edited by Holman on Fri Nov 23, 2018 3:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Political Randomness

Post by tjg_marantz » Fri Nov 23, 2018 4:19 am

Bernie and Trump.

As a Canadian, sorry. I mean, sounds right.
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Re: Political Randomness

Post by pr0ner » Fri Nov 23, 2018 10:19 am

Most similar to Macron (my hex literally neighbors his; one tick non-populist and one tick right from him).

Furthest from Donald Trump.
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Re: Political Randomness

Post by coopasonic » Fri Nov 23, 2018 12:34 pm

Max Peck wrote:
Thu Nov 22, 2018 2:41 pm
It's interesting to see so many people scoring closest to AMLO, given that he rates as high as Trump on the populism axis. Apparently populism is more popular hereabouts than I'd have guessed.
Isn't populism basically the idea that politicians should represent the common folk? What's anti-populist then? Representing corporate interests? Universal healthcare and equal rights for all seem very populist concepts to me.

I ask because I am not really clear on populism and if it is what I think it is, then why is it a surprise? On the Trump side of the line, it's more that politicians should pretend to give a damn about white men by bringing back coal and keeping the bogey man away.
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GreenGoo
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Re: Political Randomness

Post by GreenGoo » Fri Nov 23, 2018 2:01 pm

It's often termed as support for the concerns of the common folk.

I think a better descriptor is "lowest common denominator". It's what happens when you let a particularly ignorant Joe the Plumber decide national policy. We don't give the reins of our companies to the janitors and mailroom guys for a reason and that has nothing to do with looking down our noses at them.

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Re: Political Randomness

Post by Kraken » Fri Nov 23, 2018 7:23 pm

coopasonic wrote:
Fri Nov 23, 2018 12:34 pm
Max Peck wrote:
Thu Nov 22, 2018 2:41 pm
It's interesting to see so many people scoring closest to AMLO, given that he rates as high as Trump on the populism axis. Apparently populism is more popular hereabouts than I'd have guessed.
Isn't populism basically the idea that politicians should represent the common folk? What's anti-populist then? Representing corporate interests? Universal healthcare and equal rights for all seem very populist concepts to me.

I ask because I am not really clear on populism and if it is what I think it is, then why is it a surprise? On the Trump side of the line, it's more that politicians should pretend to give a damn about white men by bringing back coal and keeping the bogey man away.
"Pretend" being the operative word. I don't understand how Trump can rank high on their populism scale when he governs for the 1%. Can he really be a populist by duping people into thinking that he is? Is scorning intellectuals while supporting billionaires enough to make him a populist? I'm hazy on the definition, too, if it can include Trump. He panders to the common (white) man, but he isn't fooling anybody beyond his base. Is having such a base enough to make one a populist? I guess it must be.

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Re: Political Randomness

Post by Holman » Fri Nov 23, 2018 9:23 pm

I think "populism" is in the appeal, not the results.

It would be difficult to find examples of populists who actually helped the common people more than they helped their enabling elites (even if those enabling elites are, like the Communist or Nazi parties, anathema to certain other elites).

Successful populisms are probably defined more by harnessing popular disaffections than by producing popular benefits. It's notable that the movements that did the most for the middle and working classes in modern history were those dedicated to striking a balance between labor and capital rather than pitting "the people" against accused enemies: think FDR and Clement Attlee and successful Social Democratic movements across Europe.

Off the top of my head, I can't think of any successful political populisms that weren't ultimately grifts, coups, or illusions. Are there any? Or am I made ignorant by my American/European contexts? (Does Teddy Roosevelt's trust-busting count as a counter-example?)
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Re: Political Randomness

Post by Kurth » Sun Nov 25, 2018 5:02 am

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Re: Political Randomness

Post by Max Peck » Sun Nov 25, 2018 7:19 pm

What happens when a bad-tempered, distractible doofus runs an empire? No, not that doofus -- this one.
One of the few things that Kaiser Wilhelm II, who ruled Germany from 1888 to 1918, had a talent for was causing outrage. A particular specialty was insulting other monarchs. He called the diminutive King Victor Emmanuel III of Italy “the dwarf” in front of the king’s own entourage. He called Prince (later Tsar) Ferdinand, of Bulgaria, “Fernando naso,” on account of his beaky nose, and spread rumors that he was a hermaphrodite. Since Wilhelm was notably indiscreet, people always knew what he was saying behind their backs. Ferdinand had his revenge. After a visit to Germany, in 1909, during which the Kaiser slapped him on the bottom in public and then refused to apologize, Ferdinand awarded a valuable arms contract that had been promised to the Germans to a French company instead.

Not that this deterred the Kaiser. One of the many things that Wilhelm was convinced he was brilliant at, despite all evidence to the contrary, was “personal diplomacy,” fixing foreign policy through one-on-one meetings with other European monarchs and statesmen. In fact, Wilhelm could do neither the personal nor the diplomacy, and these meetings rarely went well. The Kaiser viewed other people in instrumental terms, was a compulsive liar, and seemed to have a limited understanding of cause and effect. In 1890, he let lapse a long-standing defensive agreement with Russia—the German Empire’s vast and sometimes threatening eastern neighbor. He judged, wrongly, that Russia was so desperate for German good will that he could keep it dangling. Instead, Russia immediately made an alliance with Germany’s western neighbor and enemy, France. Wilhelm decided he would charm and manipulate Tsar Nicholas II (a “ninny” and a “whimperer,” according to Wilhelm, fit only “to grow turnips”) into abandoning the alliance. In 1897, Nicholas told Wilhelm to get lost; the German-Russian alliance withered.
All this time, have we been drawing parallels with the wrong German head-of-state? :think:
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Re: Political Randomness

Post by Remus West » Mon Nov 26, 2018 11:14 am

Brian wrote:
Wed Nov 21, 2018 4:40 pm
Enough wrote:
Wed Nov 21, 2018 4:38 pm
Kraken wrote:
Wed Nov 21, 2018 4:29 pm
Most: Amlo (I'm starting to think a fix is in; we have a lot of Amlos here)

Least: Trump. Duh.
Me too, yikes.
Chalk up another one
and another
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Re: Political Randomness

Post by Paingod » Mon Nov 26, 2018 11:53 am

Jeff V wrote:
Wed Nov 21, 2018 3:12 pm
Formix wrote:
Wed Nov 21, 2018 2:57 pm
Most: AMLO
Least: Trumpilthinskin
Same.
Ditto.

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Re: Political Randomness

Post by Defiant » Tue Nov 27, 2018 12:44 pm

I tend to view populism as usually based much more of an appeal to emotion, rather than rationality. (Not that that's only limited to populists)
Does Teddy Roosevelt's trust-busting count as a counter-example?
I think so.

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Re: Political Randomness

Post by pr0ner » Thu Nov 29, 2018 6:33 pm

Laura Loomer is desperate for attention, thread 2,457:

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Re: Political Randomness

Post by GreenGoo » Thu Nov 29, 2018 7:27 pm

It doesn't seem to be going very well. I have no idea who she is.

Sewing a star of David to your clothes is verboten though. Whatever her issue, that's not acceptable.

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Re: Political Randomness

Post by Holman » Thu Nov 29, 2018 7:43 pm

GreenGoo wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 7:27 pm
It doesn't seem to be going very well. I have no idea who she is.

Sewing a star of David to your clothes is verboten though. Whatever her issue, that's not acceptable.
She's a full-on conspiracy theorist and Islamophobe who first came to wide attention when she announced on Twitter that she would never accept an Uber driven by a brown person.

Loomer has declared that she will pee herself before leaving her protest vigil. Twitter has handled this perfectly, announcing that they are not pressing charges and that Loomer is welcome to remain handcuffed to their door as long as she likes.

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Re: Political Randomness

Post by Pyperkub » Thu Nov 29, 2018 7:49 pm

GreenGoo wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 7:27 pm
It doesn't seem to be going very well. I have no idea who she is.

Sewing a star of David to your clothes is verboten though. Whatever her issue, that's not acceptable.
You are better off not knowing.
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Re: Political Randomness

Post by pr0ner » Thu Nov 29, 2018 10:08 pm

Hodor.

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Re: Political Randomness

Post by Daehawk » Thu Nov 29, 2018 10:31 pm

At first sight I took her to be of Arab descent.

And allowing her to stay chained to the door is brilliant. I hope she brought diapers in that bag.

If she does pee herself is that public urination or public indecency?
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Re: Political Randomness

Post by Defiant » Thu Nov 29, 2018 11:28 pm


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Remus West
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Re: Political Randomness

Post by Remus West » Fri Nov 30, 2018 10:26 am

Daehawk wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 10:31 pm
At first sight I took her to be of Arab descent.

And allowing her to stay chained to the door is brilliant. I hope she brought diapers in that bag.

If she does pee herself is that public urination or public indecency?
Probably just public urination unless she drops her pants to do it. I wonder if twitter could charge her with vandalism if she pees on their enterance though.
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Re: Political Randomness

Post by Unagi » Fri Nov 30, 2018 11:06 am

Remus West wrote:
Fri Nov 30, 2018 10:26 am
I wonder if twitter could charge her with vandalism if she pees on their enterance though.
maybe she chained herself to the exitance... it's not clear.

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Re: Political Randomness

Post by GreenGoo » Fri Nov 30, 2018 1:05 pm

Boo! Boo, I say.

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Re: Political Randomness

Post by pr0ner » Tue Dec 04, 2018 11:08 am

In another bad hot take in a post-election series of them on his Twitter account, Ian Millhiser says the 22nd Amendment is "stupid" and "shouldn't exist" because Barack Obama cannot be elected president again.

Hodor.

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