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Political Randomness

For discussion of religion and politics

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Re: Political Randomness

Post by Isgrimnur » Mon Jun 17, 2019 11:26 am

Virginia
The Supreme Court on Monday dismissed the challenge to a lower court’s findings that some of Virginia’s legislative districts were racially gerrymandered, saying that House Republicans did not have legal standing to challenge the decision.

The decision could give an advantage to the state’s Democrats. All 140 seats in the legislature are on the ballot this fall, and the GOP holds two-seat majorities in both the House (51 to 49) and the Senate (21 to 19).
...
The case split the court. Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg wrote the majority opinion in the 5 to 4 case, saying that House Republican leaders could not challenge the court ruling because they did not represent the commonwealth.

The state’s attorney general declined to continue the case, Ginsburg wrote.

“The State of Virginia would rather stop than fight on,” she wrote. “One House of its bicameral legislature cannot alone continue the litigation against the will of its partners in the legislative process.”

She was joined in an unusual alignment by Justices Clarence Thomas, Sonia Sotomayor, Elena Kagan and Neil M. Gorsuch.
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Re: Political Randomness

Post by Defiant » Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:14 am


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Re: Political Randomness

Post by Isgrimnur » Thu Jun 20, 2019 1:41 pm

Dallas
Dallas will pay $650,000 to settle a lawsuit brought by a sex exposition after the city banned it from hosting an event at a city-owned convention center.

The Dallas City Council on Wednesday approved the settlement with Three Expo Events, which has held the Exxxotica event in various U.S. cities including Dallas in 2015.

Three Expo had argued the city violated its free-speech rights when officials banned it from returning the following year to the Kay Bailey Hutchison Convention Center.
...
The event drew about 15,000 people when it was held in 2015.

The city won an early court challenge but Three Expo appealed and the case had been pending in federal court.
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Re: Political Randomness

Post by LawBeefaroni » Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:08 pm

"Three Expo", haha, clever.
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Re: Political Randomness

Post by Skinypupy » Sat Jun 22, 2019 3:38 pm

And you're pointing this out...why, Senator?

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Re: Political Randomness

Post by LawBeefaroni » Sat Jun 22, 2019 6:08 pm

Skinypupy wrote:
Sat Jun 22, 2019 3:38 pm
And you're pointing this out...why, Senator
Alien invasion!!!
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Re: Political Randomness

Post by LawBeefaroni » Sat Jun 22, 2019 6:11 pm

Also,

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Re: Political Randomness

Post by Smoove_B » Tue Jun 25, 2019 12:34 pm

Some polling data for Mitch McConnell:
About 33 percent of registered Kentucky voters polled approve of the job McConnell is doing, while 56 percent disapprove and 11 percent are unsure. Additionally, 32 percent think McConnell “deserves to be reelected,” and 61 percent think it’s “time for someone new.”
So once again, you see that ~33% "floor" of delplorables. The 11% unsure are likely people (in my opinion) that want to say they approve but don't want to be judged for it. So in reality he's closer to 40% of people polled that like what he's doing.

Overall:
McConnell consistently polls poorly but has been serving in the Senate since 1985. Morning Consult found last month that the Kentucky Republican was the third most unpopular senator in the country, with 47 percent of Kentuckians disapproving with his job performance. He was only more popular than Sens. Jeff Flake (R-Ariz.), who retired, and Claire McCaskill (D-Mo.), who was voted out of office.
In the Smoove_B unofficial poll, he's the #1 piece of human garbage currently serving in Congress.

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Re: Political Randomness

Post by LordMortis » Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:07 pm

Smoove_B wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 12:34 pm
Some polling data for Mitch McConnell:
About 33 percent of registered Kentucky voters polled approve of the job McConnell is doing, while 56 percent disapprove and 11 percent are unsure. Additionally, 32 percent think McConnell “deserves to be reelected,” and 61 percent think it’s “time for someone new.”
So once again, you see that ~33% "floor" of delplorables. The 11% unsure are likely people (in my opinion) that want to say they approve but don't want to be judged for it. So in reality he's closer to 40% of people polled that like what he's doing.

Overall:
McConnell consistently polls poorly but has been serving in the Senate since 1985. Morning Consult found last month that the Kentucky Republican was the third most unpopular senator in the country, with 47 percent of Kentuckians disapproving with his job performance. He was only more popular than Sens. Jeff Flake (R-Ariz.), who retired, and Claire McCaskill (D-Mo.), who was voted out of office.
In the Smoove_B unofficial poll, he's the #1 piece of human garbage currently serving in Congress.
And yet he won't get voted out of office, which means if you can believe that 33% of Kentuckians can control the vote then approximately 1/3 of 1% of voting eligible Americans have held the US hostage through his legislation for nearly two decades and it is they who may have broken the rule of law beyond repair. Of course, I no longer believe the numbers. I think there are cowards in that 56 and 11% who will vote for him and then ask what option they had while Pelosi is ruining the country. I've really been disillusioned of the nature of my fellow countryfolk in these last four years or so.

What makes him so much worse in 2020 than he was in 2014? The damage he's done to the balance of power and the rule of law? Like that wasn't there before his proudest moment?

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Re: Political Randomness

Post by LordMortis » Wed Jun 26, 2019 4:49 pm

What if the CiC woke up tomorrow and decided the FDIC wasn't a good deal or Social Security wasn't a good deal or military benefits weren't a good deal and was being told, people were saying, he could just end them? How is that different than all of these other bad deals Congress doesn't stop him from reneging on?

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Re: Political Randomness

Post by Daehawk » Thu Jun 27, 2019 6:00 pm

Not having to do with either party but I sure could use another stimulus check these days and right about now. They were very handy to me and my wife at the times we got them before.
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Re: Political Randomness

Post by LawBeefaroni » Thu Jun 27, 2019 8:14 pm

Daehawk wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 6:00 pm
Not having to do with either party but I sure could use another stimulus check these days and right about now. They were very handy to me and my wife at the times we got them before.
I think the events that precipitated stimulus checks were bad enough that it's a case of "be careful what you wish for."
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Re: Political Randomness

Post by Max Peck » Sat Jun 29, 2019 10:22 am

Everything that Trump touches dies.
The sand dunes at Donald Trump's Aberdeenshire golf resort are expected to lose their status as a nationally-important protected environment.

Government watchdog Scottish Natural Heritage has recommended that Menie links be removed from an existing site of special scientific interest (SSSI).

SNH concluded Mr Trump's golf course had "destroyed" the sand dune system, causing permanent habitat loss.

The Trump Organisation reacted by calling the move a "stitch-up".

It said the organisation had spent millions on the care, protection and maintenance of the SSSI area.

SNH said it was "unusual" to remove an SSSI from the list but there was no longer a reason to protect the dunes.

Scottish Green party co-convener Patrick Harvie, who campaigned against the development, said: "It has ruined, destroyed, gubbed, the kind of natural environment that those paper protections were there to protect."
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Re: Political Randomness

Post by Isgrimnur » Tue Jul 02, 2019 9:57 am

CNN
Nike is canceling a sneaker that featured the "Betsy Ross" version of the American flag from the late 18th century.
...
The Wall Street Journal reported earlier that the athletic-wear company delivered the sneakers to retailers, but asked stores to return them to Nike after the company received a complaint from former NFL star Colin Kaepernick. The Journal indicated Kaepernick said he and others found the shoe offensive because of its ties to America's era of slavery.
The Hill
Arizona Gov. Doug Ducey (R) on Tuesday announced that he will ask the state's chamber of commerce to pull financial incentives for Nike after the company decided not to release a Betsy Ross flag sneaker.
...
Nike was planning a "major" investment in Goodyear, Ariz., Ducey said. He said that he has ordered the Arizona Commerce Authority to withdraw financial incentives it had been providing Nike to locate there.
...
"We don’t need to suck up to companies that consciously denigrate our nation’s history," he wrote.
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Re: Political Randomness

Post by El Guapo » Tue Jul 02, 2019 10:03 am

Smoove_B wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 12:34 pm
Some polling data for Mitch McConnell:
About 33 percent of registered Kentucky voters polled approve of the job McConnell is doing, while 56 percent disapprove and 11 percent are unsure. Additionally, 32 percent think McConnell “deserves to be reelected,” and 61 percent think it’s “time for someone new.”
So once again, you see that ~33% "floor" of delplorables. The 11% unsure are likely people (in my opinion) that want to say they approve but don't want to be judged for it. So in reality he's closer to 40% of people polled that like what he's doing.

Overall:
McConnell consistently polls poorly but has been serving in the Senate since 1985. Morning Consult found last month that the Kentucky Republican was the third most unpopular senator in the country, with 47 percent of Kentuckians disapproving with his job performance. He was only more popular than Sens. Jeff Flake (R-Ariz.), who retired, and Claire McCaskill (D-Mo.), who was voted out of office.
In the Smoove_B unofficial poll, he's the #1 piece of human garbage currently serving in Congress.
IIRC there's not much support for the notion that people will lie to pollsters for fear of being judged.

However, the reason why McConnell doesn't need to be too worried about those numbers are: (1) the "disapprove" / "unsure" numbers include people who disapprove because they think he's too soft / bipartisan - e.g., won't support (yet) deporting democrats to Gitmo; (2) this is in the abstract, and so not McConnell vs. some Godless democrat. The ultimate question is not how many people disapprove of McConnell in the abstract, but how many Kentuckians would prefer a Godless democrat to him. And the answer to that is probably not many.

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Re: Political Randomness

Post by LordMortis » Tue Jul 02, 2019 10:19 am

I'm a big supporter of Colin's past actions. I even understand why he chose to get paid rather than amplify himself as the poster child (and keeping the conversation alive through force of will) injustice across racial lines in the US.

But the Betsy Ross flag as a symbol of US slavery? And Nike kowtowing to that? That's a message muddier to me. I don't ever want to say "Colin your 15 minutes of fame are up." because that's flat out wrong, but he's made a call I can't respect here or at least not from the CNN presentation. That's sad to me because it arms the opposition and gives them an out to shout a narrative that ignores the last three plus years and all the years before that led to them.
so not McConnell vs. some Godless democrat.
This. It seems to me GOP voters disapprove their choices a lot but then go into Rush Limbaugh nonsense mode when it comes to democrats.

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Re: Political Randomness

Post by hepcat » Tue Jul 02, 2019 2:04 pm

Just out of curiosity, how viable is Pence as a presidential candidate? Is he as disliked as I suspect he is? Considering that Trump himself seems to show him nothing short of disdain in most cases, I have to think Trumpers see him as sort of a non-entity. If that is the case, what are the chances Pence gets dumped for another VP hopeful next election?
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Re: Political Randomness

Post by El Guapo » Tue Jul 02, 2019 2:31 pm

hepcat wrote:
Tue Jul 02, 2019 2:04 pm
Just out of curiosity, how viable is Pence as a presidential candidate? Is he as disliked as I suspect he is? Considering that Trump himself seems to show him nothing short of disdain in most cases, I have to think Trumpers see him as sort of a non-entity. If that is the case, what are the chances Pence gets dumped for another VP hopeful next election?
I mean, he'd be a viable candidate by virtue of being Vice President. Not unbeatable by any means, but he'd have a reasonable shot.

He could wind up getting dumped, but there's some risk to that and I don't see that much upside. If Trump dumped Pence, I have little doubt that the Trump base would overwhelmingly stick with Trump, even if Pence went negative on Trump in response. My worry, if I were Trump's people, is that Trump is already in a poor place in the polls - favorability around 40% - 42% - where he could win but it's likely to be tough. Even if 95% of evangelicals stick with Trump in a Trump-Pence breakup, losing just a small amount of his most committed base could be a real problem. E.g., there's a big difference between 40% - 42% favorability and 39% - 41% favorability.

Unless Trump is getting the Second Coming of Reagan as VP, I don't see dumping Pence being worth it. Which is not to say that Trump wouldn't do it on impulse.

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Re: Political Randomness

Post by Holman » Tue Jul 02, 2019 5:13 pm

Trump picked Pence to nail down the Evangelical vote, not knowing at the time that American Evangelicals don't give too shits about faith as long as their man hates gays, foreigners, and Muslims as much as they do.

Knowing what he knows now, and eyeing the likely Dem tickets, I'd say Trump is 51% likely to dump Pence for a female VP.
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Re: Political Randomness

Post by malchior » Wed Jul 03, 2019 7:31 am

Republican leadership in South up to its old voter suppression tricks.

Georgia accused of discriminating against P.R. driver's license applicants.
Time wrote:A federal lawsuit filed Tuesday says Georgia is discriminating against Puerto Rican driver’s license applicants by treating them differently than other U.S. citizen applicants — forcing them to take tests, seizing their documents for fraud reviews and quizzing them on details about the island.

...

Birth certificates and other original identity documents submitted by applicants born in Puerto Rico are retained and flagged for fraud review under Department of Driver Services rules, the lawsuit says.

Additionally, Puerto Rican applicants must answer questions about the island, while applicants from the mainland U.S. aren’t required to do anything similar. The questions include “identifying ‘what a meat filled with plantain fritter’ is called; where a specific beach is located; and ‘the name of the frog (that is) native only to PR,'” the lawsuit says.

“The so-called quiz, applied to Puerto Rican drivers, bears a strikingly disturbing resemblance to the tests applied by segregationists to block voter registration of people of color,” Southern Center attorney Gerry Weber said.
Felon 'poll tax' challenged
Sentinel Sun wrote:As Florida’s Capitol closed for the weekend last Friday, Gov. Ron DeSantis quietly signed a law that places unwarranted and possibly unconstitutional financial burdens on felons who won the right to vote under Amendment 4 — or so they thought.

Any desire on DeSantis’ part to tiptoe around this raging controversy was soon dashed. His signature was barely dry when the first of four lawsuits surfaced, challenging the law’s constitutionality on the grounds that it makes voting subject to ability to pay.

...

As presented to voters, Amendment 4 would restore voting rights to most felons “after they complete all terms of their sentence including parole or probation.” In the 2019 session, the Legislature defined “all terms” to include all fees, fines and costs imposed as part of a sentence.

Republicans cite the words of Jon Mills of the University of Florida law school, who argued on behalf of Amendment 4 supporters when the ballot language was approved by the state Supreme Court last year. Mills told justices: “All terms means all terms.” As House Speaker Jose Oliva, R-Miami Lakes, told the News Service of Florida: “Voters voted to give felons a second chance, but they didn’t vote to give them a free pass from accountability and payment of debt to society."

But the result, according to the American Civil Liberties Union, League of Women Voters, Florida State Conference of the NAACP, Southern Poverty Law Center and others, makes voting subject to the ability to pay, which is unjust on its face. A felon who can pay a fine can vote, but a felon who can’t will remain disenfranchised because of money, creating two classes. Paying debts is made more difficult because a conviction in Florida is a barrier to employment. No wonder critics of the law call it “a poll tax.”

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Re: Political Randomness

Post by LawBeefaroni » Wed Jul 03, 2019 9:11 am

First one is blatantly obvious. They should make all license applicants answer the exact same questions. Would clear up the roads a bit.


The second, I don't see a huge problem. I mean there may be problems with exorbitant court costs but that's a different issue. Clearing one's "debt to society" should include all fines and penalties. Often fines and penalties are in lieu of prison time, or minimize it.
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Re: Political Randomness

Post by LawBeefaroni » Wed Jul 03, 2019 9:16 am

Holman wrote:
Tue Jul 02, 2019 5:13 pm
Trump picked Pence to nail down the Evangelical vote, not knowing at the time that American Evangelicals don't give too shits about faith as long as their man hates gays, foreigners, and Muslims as much as they do.

Knowing what he knows now, and eyeing the likely Dem tickets, I'd say Trump is 51% likely to dump Pence for a female VP.
He 99.9% wants his daughter on the ticket.
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Re: Political Randomness

Post by hepcat » Wed Jul 03, 2019 10:52 am

We're calling it "the ticket" now, are we?
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Re: Political Randomness

Post by LordMortis » Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:38 am

hepcat wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 10:52 am
We're calling it "the ticket" now, are we?
I was looking for that joke but it fell flat in my inner monologue.

Enlarge Image


I was looking for the Overlook Hotel photo buy my googlefu is weak.

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Re: Political Randomness

Post by malchior » Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:52 am

LawBeefaroni wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 9:11 am
The second, I don't see a huge problem. I mean there may be problems with exorbitant court costs but that's a different issue. Clearing one's "debt to society" should include all fines and penalties. Often fines and penalties are in lieu of prison time, or minimize it.
I think it is probably a little more complicated. As a hypothetical, let's say someone is on a fixed low payment plan that'll take 15 years to clear their fines...is that a reason to cut them off for voting? Perhaps a more reasonable approach is granular such as restrictions if they are in arrears. Anyway, I don't have the number affected in front of me but the lawsuits seem to indicate that this is more about suppression than justice. We'll have to see how it shakes out but I think it is more than fair to suspect suppression when things like this pop up.

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Re: Political Randomness

Post by Pyperkub » Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:21 pm

LordMortis wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:38 am
hepcat wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 10:52 am
We're calling it "the ticket" now, are we?
I was looking for that joke but it fell flat in my inner monologue.

Enlarge Image


I was looking for the Overlook Hotel photo buy my googlefu is weak.
I believe this is the joke you were looking for:

Image

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Re: Political Randomness

Post by Default » Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:35 pm

malchior wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:52 am
LawBeefaroni wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 9:11 am
The second, I don't see a huge problem. I mean there may be problems with exorbitant court costs but that's a different issue. Clearing one's "debt to society" should include all fines and penalties. Often fines and penalties are in lieu of prison time, or minimize it.
I think it is probably a little more complicated. As a hypothetical, let's say someone is on a fixed low payment plan that'll take 15 years to clear their fines...is that a reason to cut them off for voting? Perhaps a more reasonable approach is granular such as restrictions if they are in arrears. Anyway, I don't have the number affected in front of me but the lawsuits seem to indicate that this is more about suppression than justice. We'll have to see how it shakes out but I think it is more than fair to suspect suppression when things like this pop up.
I read somewhere that the average yearly income after being released from prison is <6k.
If you can't get a job, how can you pay any debts? One less vote for the Dems, cha-ching!
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Re: Political Randomness

Post by LawBeefaroni » Wed Jul 03, 2019 2:33 pm

Default wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:35 pm
malchior wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:52 am
LawBeefaroni wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 9:11 am
The second, I don't see a huge problem. I mean there may be problems with exorbitant court costs but that's a different issue. Clearing one's "debt to society" should include all fines and penalties. Often fines and penalties are in lieu of prison time, or minimize it.
I think it is probably a little more complicated. As a hypothetical, let's say someone is on a fixed low payment plan that'll take 15 years to clear their fines...is that a reason to cut them off for voting? Perhaps a more reasonable approach is granular such as restrictions if they are in arrears. Anyway, I don't have the number affected in front of me but the lawsuits seem to indicate that this is more about suppression than justice. We'll have to see how it shakes out but I think it is more than fair to suspect suppression when things like this pop up.
I read somewhere that the average yearly income after being released from prison is <6k.
If you can't get a job, how can you pay any debts? One less vote for the Dems, cha-ching!
I think the $6K/year income is a bigger problem than not being able to vote due to unpaid debts. I mean fix the first and you'll fix the second.

I mean doesn't it bother people more that we are churning our un/deremployed ex-felons with zero support? Hello recidivism. But hey, give em the vote and it's all good.
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Re: Political Randomness

Post by El Guapo » Wed Jul 03, 2019 3:39 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 2:33 pm
Default wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:35 pm
malchior wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:52 am
LawBeefaroni wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 9:11 am
The second, I don't see a huge problem. I mean there may be problems with exorbitant court costs but that's a different issue. Clearing one's "debt to society" should include all fines and penalties. Often fines and penalties are in lieu of prison time, or minimize it.
I think it is probably a little more complicated. As a hypothetical, let's say someone is on a fixed low payment plan that'll take 15 years to clear their fines...is that a reason to cut them off for voting? Perhaps a more reasonable approach is granular such as restrictions if they are in arrears. Anyway, I don't have the number affected in front of me but the lawsuits seem to indicate that this is more about suppression than justice. We'll have to see how it shakes out but I think it is more than fair to suspect suppression when things like this pop up.
I read somewhere that the average yearly income after being released from prison is <6k.
If you can't get a job, how can you pay any debts? One less vote for the Dems, cha-ching!
I think the $6K/year income is a bigger problem than not being able to vote due to unpaid debts. I mean fix the first and you'll fix the second.

I mean doesn't it bother people more that we are churning our un/deremployed ex-felons with zero support? Hello recidivism. But hey, give em the vote and it's all good.
Oh, ok - we just need to fix our criminal justice and poverty problems before we can address the voting issue. No problem.

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Re: Political Randomness

Post by Daehawk » Wed Jul 03, 2019 4:01 pm

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LawBeefaroni
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Re: Political Randomness

Post by LawBeefaroni » Wed Jul 03, 2019 4:13 pm

El Guapo wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 3:39 pm
LawBeefaroni wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 2:33 pm
Default wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:35 pm
malchior wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:52 am
LawBeefaroni wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 9:11 am
The second, I don't see a huge problem. I mean there may be problems with exorbitant court costs but that's a different issue. Clearing one's "debt to society" should include all fines and penalties. Often fines and penalties are in lieu of prison time, or minimize it.
I think it is probably a little more complicated. As a hypothetical, let's say someone is on a fixed low payment plan that'll take 15 years to clear their fines...is that a reason to cut them off for voting? Perhaps a more reasonable approach is granular such as restrictions if they are in arrears. Anyway, I don't have the number affected in front of me but the lawsuits seem to indicate that this is more about suppression than justice. We'll have to see how it shakes out but I think it is more than fair to suspect suppression when things like this pop up.
I read somewhere that the average yearly income after being released from prison is <6k.
If you can't get a job, how can you pay any debts? One less vote for the Dems, cha-ching!
I think the $6K/year income is a bigger problem than not being able to vote due to unpaid debts. I mean fix the first and you'll fix the second.

I mean doesn't it bother people more that we are churning our un/deremployed ex-felons with zero support? Hello recidivism. But hey, give em the vote and it's all good.
Oh, ok - we just need to fix our criminal justice and poverty problems before we can address the voting issue. No problem.
No, let's bicker about the low hanging fruit until the bigger problems fix themselves.
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Re: Political Randomness

Post by Isgrimnur » Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:36 pm

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Re: Political Randomness

Post by Default » Thu Jul 04, 2019 8:46 am

LawBeefaroni wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 2:33 pm
Default wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:35 pm
malchior wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:52 am
LawBeefaroni wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 9:11 am
The second, I don't see a huge problem. I mean there may be problems with exorbitant court costs but that's a different issue. Clearing one's "debt to society" should include all fines and penalties. Often fines and penalties are in lieu of prison time, or minimize it.
I think it is probably a little more complicated. As a hypothetical, let's say someone is on a fixed low payment plan that'll take 15 years to clear their fines...is that a reason to cut them off for voting? Perhaps a more reasonable approach is granular such as restrictions if they are in arrears. Anyway, I don't have the number affected in front of me but the lawsuits seem to indicate that this is more about suppression than justice. We'll have to see how it shakes out but I think it is more than fair to suspect suppression when things like this pop up.
I read somewhere that the average yearly income after being released from prison is <6k.
If you can't get a job, how can you pay any debts? One less vote for the Dems, cha-ching!
I think the $6K/year income is a bigger problem than not being able to vote due to unpaid debts. I mean fix the first and you'll fix the second.

I mean doesn't it bother people more that we are churning our un/deremployed ex-felons with zero support? Hello recidivism. But hey, give em the vote and it's all good.
If you have a criminal record, you aren't getting hired. I have two friends who are struggling with that. Why should holding your vote hostage be important, unless you are trying to keep them from voting? Republicans in Florida don't care about people who served their time anyway.
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Re: Political Randomness

Post by LawBeefaroni » Thu Jul 04, 2019 9:43 am

Default wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 8:46 am
[
If you have a criminal record, you aren't getting hired. I have two friends who are struggling with that. Why should holding your vote hostage be important, unless you are trying to keep them from voting? Republicans in Florida don't care about people who served their time anyway.
Yeah, my brother has that problem. Weed felony in a state where it's now legal. Cannot get a real job. It's bullshit but that's how it is.

But let's be honest. Nobody really cares about the felons. Just their votes. Republicans don't want the demographic to vote, the Democrats do. If anyone actually cared about the individuals, they wouldn't be so concerned about the votes while these people are jobless and homeless with little hope. It's feel-good low hanging fruit for the left.


Ask a guy without a job, no money, and a kid to feed if he wants a vote or a job. Yeah, I know they are not mutually exclusive but I just don't think the lack of a vote is keeping felons in shittown. Certainly waiting until they are free and clear of court debts isn't doing it.

Put aside the myth that votes are power and all that, they are a secondary concern when real life is kicking your ass. I know that $20 can buy a vote in Chicago.


Here's an idea, allow them to work off their fines and court debts. They they get to vote and no one can do anything about it.
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Re: Political Randomness

Post by Remus West » Thu Jul 04, 2019 10:10 am

LawBeefaroni wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 9:43 am
I just don't think the lack of a vote is keeping felons in shittown.
I believe the idea of giving them the vote means they would then be empowered to help usher in those who wish to assist their getting out of shittown. If the difference between electing a Republican who views them as less than dirt and a Democrat who wants to create job training and opportunities for them is a few felons voting then you really are addressing the job issue through giving them the vote.
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Re: Political Randomness

Post by GungHo » Fri Jul 05, 2019 12:33 pm

Remus West wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 10:10 am
LawBeefaroni wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 9:43 am
I just don't think the lack of a vote is keeping felons in shittown.
I believe the idea of giving them the vote means they would then be empowered to help usher in those who wish to assist their getting out of shittown. If the difference between electing a Republican who views them as less than dirt and a Democrat who wants to create job training and opportunities for them is a few felons voting then you really are addressing the job issue through giving them the vote.

If you're jobless and homeless I doubt 1) you are registered to vote 2) know when the elections are and 3) know where your polling place is.
With LawBeef on this one.
LordMortis wrote:
Tue Jul 02, 2019 10:19 am
I'm a big supporter of Colin's past actions. I even understand why he chose to get paid rather than amplify himself as the poster child (and keeping the conversation alive through force of will) injustice across racial lines in the US.

But the Betsy Ross flag as a symbol of US slavery? And Nike kowtowing to that? That's a message muddier to me. I don't ever want to say "Colin your 15 minutes of fame are up." because that's flat out wrong, but he's made a call I can't respect here or at least not from the CNN presentation. That's sad to me because it arms the opposition and gives them an out to shout a narrative that ignores the last three plus years and all the years before that led to them.
so not McConnell vs. some Godless democrat.
This. It seems to me GOP voters disapprove their choices a lot but then go into Rush Limbaugh nonsense mode when it comes to democrats.

This is a prime example of the 'political correctness' that got trump elected. So many issues in this country and the world right now but this lunacy managed to carry the day (though fortunately only one). Almost no one, outside of kapernick and some of his supporters as well as a few desperate Democratic contenders for president, have said there is anything wrong with this flag. Obama had 2(!) of them at his 2013 inauguration.
OR
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Re: Political Randomness

Post by Pyperkub » Fri Jul 05, 2019 3:48 pm

GungHo wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 12:33 pm
Remus West wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 10:10 am
LawBeefaroni wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 9:43 am
I just don't think the lack of a vote is keeping felons in shittown.
I believe the idea of giving them the vote means they would then be empowered to help usher in those who wish to assist their getting out of shittown. If the difference between electing a Republican who views them as less than dirt and a Democrat who wants to create job training and opportunities for them is a few felons voting then you really are addressing the job issue through giving them the vote.

If you're jobless and homeless I doubt 1) you are registered to vote 2) know when the elections are and 3) know where your polling place is.
With LawBeef on this one.
LordMortis wrote:
Tue Jul 02, 2019 10:19 am
I'm a big supporter of Colin's past actions. I even understand why he chose to get paid rather than amplify himself as the poster child (and keeping the conversation alive through force of will) injustice across racial lines in the US.

But the Betsy Ross flag as a symbol of US slavery? And Nike kowtowing to that? That's a message muddier to me. I don't ever want to say "Colin your 15 minutes of fame are up." because that's flat out wrong, but he's made a call I can't respect here or at least not from the CNN presentation. That's sad to me because it arms the opposition and gives them an out to shout a narrative that ignores the last three plus years and all the years before that led to them.
so not McConnell vs. some Godless democrat.
This. It seems to me GOP voters disapprove their choices a lot but then go into Rush Limbaugh nonsense mode when it comes to democrats.

This is a prime example of the 'political correctness' that got trump elected. So many issues in this country and the world right now but this lunacy managed to carry the day (though fortunately only one). Almost no one, outside of kapernick and some of his supporters as well as a few desperate Democratic contenders for president, have said there is anything wrong with this flag. Obama had 2(!) of them at his 2013 inauguration.
This isn't complicated:
Despite the backlash in the wake of Nike’s endorsement deal with Colin Kaepernick, the sportswear company has seen a 31% increase in online sales, according to one outside estimate.

Nike sales grew 31% from Sunday through Tuesday over the Labor Day holiday this year compared with the previous year, according to Edison Trends.
Remember that it was Nike who reached to Kaepernick about it... **after** they had already announced the shoe - in other words, the foofraw was entirely created by Nike.
There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.

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Re: Political Randomness

Post by Holman » Fri Jul 05, 2019 4:54 pm

The problem we're seeing around the Betsy Ross flag is that, on the one hand, yes, white supremacists really have adopted it recently. They use it to signal their love of a first-days America (without all the rights for women and nonwhites). On the other hand, nobody outside the movement is aware of this except people who keep an eye on white supremacists. Obviously Colin K is one of those.

Far and away, most people see the Betsy Ross flag as nothing more than a historical American symbol. Nike probably should have felt safe assuming that this was fine.

Still, it wasn't too long ago that we saw the Gadsden flag as simply historical. Now you know exactly what to think of someone wearing it on a t-shirt or a bumper sticker.
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.

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Re: Political Randomness

Post by Z-Corn » Fri Jul 05, 2019 5:58 pm

Those shoes aren't going to be destroyed. They are going to end up in the collections of wealthy collectors.

Maybe there was a financial motivation for this uproar?

Maybe somebody is getting to have their cake and eat it too?

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Re: Political Randomness

Post by Default » Sat Jul 06, 2019 11:41 am

LawBeefaroni wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 9:43 am
Default wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 8:46 am
[
If you have a criminal record, you aren't getting hired. I have two friends who are struggling with that. Why should holding your vote hostage be important, unless you are trying to keep them from voting? Republicans in Florida don't care about people who served their time anyway.
Yeah, my brother has that problem. Weed felony in a state where it's now legal. Cannot get a real job. It's bullshit but that's how it is.

But let's be honest. Nobody really cares about the felons. Just their votes. Republicans don't want the demographic to vote, the Democrats do. If anyone actually cared about the individuals, they wouldn't be so concerned about the votes while these people are jobless and homeless with little hope. It's feel-good low hanging fruit for the left.


Ask a guy without a job, no money, and a kid to feed if he wants a vote or a job. Yeah, I know they are not mutually exclusive but I just don't think the lack of a vote is keeping felons in shittown. Certainly waiting until they are free and clear of court debts isn't doing it.

Put aside the myth that votes are power and all that, they are a secondary concern when real life is kicking your ass. I know that $20 can buy a vote in Chicago.


Here's an idea, allow them to work off their fines and court debts. They they get to vote and no one can do anything about it.
Doesn't have to be either or. These are two distinct problems. I don't see why you should prevent people who did the time from voting, nor do I see why you can't get them a work program to help them get back into society. One should not depend on another. I would also suggest that the Dems *do* care more about former inmates than the monstrosity that the gop has devolved into.
"pcp, lsd, thc, tgb...it's all good." ~ Kraken

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