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LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

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Jaymann
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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

Post by Jaymann » Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:20 pm

What a bunch of cunts!
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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

Post by Unagi » Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:03 pm

top of a page too.
:clap:

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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

Post by Alefroth » Thu Feb 14, 2019 1:10 pm

Poster child for inbreeding here-

https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/201 ... t-vpx.wvva

Around 1:20 is where it gets downright chilling.

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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

Post by Daehawk » Thu Feb 14, 2019 1:37 pm

The lack of brains in our leaders is startling these days.
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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

Post by hepcat » Thu Feb 14, 2019 1:55 pm

The whole time idiots like that are in the spotlight, they're frantically thinking in the back of their minds "Did I clear my internet search history this morning!?!?".
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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

Post by Remus West » Thu Feb 14, 2019 2:42 pm

hepcat wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 1:55 pm
The whole time idiots like that are in the spotlight, they're frantically thinking in the back of their minds "Did I clear my internet search history this morning!?!?".
:lol:
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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

Post by Blackhawk » Thu Feb 14, 2019 2:49 pm

The "Idea-ology" of LGBTQ (but not gays) can be cured by swimming? :doh:
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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

Post by Alefroth » Thu Feb 14, 2019 2:57 pm

By not swimming is the impression I got.

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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

Post by em2nought » Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:03 pm

Darned that homophobic Trump, look what he's been up to in his spare time. How dare "he" try to end the criminalization of homosexuality in foreign countries. Orange man bad! :roll:
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna973081
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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

Post by gbasden » Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:36 pm

em2nought wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:03 pm
Darned that homophobic Trump, look what he's been up to in his spare time. How dare "he" try to end the criminalization of homosexuality in foreign countries. Orange man bad! :roll:
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna973081
Enlarge Image
I'll give credit where credit is due - good for the administration for pushing for that. It will be interesting to see if they only use it as a talking point against Iran, or if they actually seek to broadly push the matter against Trump's best friends, the Saudis.

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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

Post by Default » Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:48 pm

gbasden wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:36 pm
em2nought wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:03 pm
Darned that homophobic Trump, look what he's been up to in his spare time. How dare "he" try to end the criminalization of homosexuality in foreign countries. Orange man bad! :roll:
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna973081
Enlarge Image
I'll give credit where credit is due - good for the administration for pushing for that. It will be interesting to see if they only use it as a talking point against Iran, or if they actually seek to broadly push the matter against Trump's best friends, the Saudis.
But who will think of the MEvangelicals?

They aren't going to like that, lol.
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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

Post by GreenGoo » Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:12 pm

Thank God he found something productive to do with all that executive time.

Now would it kill him to look closer at domestic policies where he might actually be able to affect change?

In any case, given the last two years of empty suit leadership, call me when he gets some results. I'm long past caring what he has to say in front of a camera.

At least now we know em2 thinks NBC is a trustworthy news source.

No president has done more for the LGBT community than him. He's the biggest LGBT the world has ever seen. That's some sort of Nobel peace award, right?

In all seriousness, call me when this campaign makes for meaningful change. I'll begrudgingly give him props then.

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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

Post by hepcat » Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:43 pm

gbasden wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:36 pm
I'll give credit where credit is due - good for the administration for pushing for that. It will be interesting to see if they only use it as a talking point against Iran, or if they actually seek to broadly push the matter against Trump's best friends, the Saudis.
Doubtful. He only wants to agitate those he doesn’t like. If you’ve said nice things about him, you can do whatever you want.

This is about Iran, period. He’ll do jack shit beyond bitching about them. He’s already shown he’s fine with Saudi Arabia murdering people.
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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

Post by em2nought » Wed Feb 20, 2019 1:07 am

GreenGoo wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:12 pm
At least now we know em2 thinks NBC is a trustworthy news source.
I read it someplace else and then looked for a secondary source that y'all wouldn't turn your noses up at. :wink:
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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

Post by stessier » Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:43 am

It's still illegal in Russia, isn't it? That would be an interesting place to kick off his initiative.
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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

Post by Holman » Wed Feb 20, 2019 7:06 pm

It appears that Trump had no idea his administration was trying to decriminalize homosexuality around the globe.
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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

Post by GreenGoo » Wed Feb 20, 2019 7:16 pm

That can't be true. There he is holding the flag at the news conference where he announced the existence of the campaign. Presumably that's why the picture was posted. Right? I mean, right?

That little scamp, em2, always with the practical jokes. You got us em2. Well done. I wonder what antics em2 will get up to next? Let's watch...

:pop:

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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

Post by Moliere » Wed Feb 20, 2019 8:42 pm


LGBT group drops Martina Navratilova over transgender comments

In a newspaper column this week the 18-time grand slam singles champion referred to trans women as men who “decide to be female”, adding that allowing them to compete with women who were assigned female at birth is “cheating and unfair”.
It's an interesting dilemma since a man who gets through puberty will have a huge physiological advantage over women who were born with the double X. Joe Rogan gets all kinds of shit for saying men should not be able to declare themselves a woman and then go fight women in the Octagon. Is it any wonder that a transgender woman is breaking all the female weightlifting records?
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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

Post by GreenGoo » Wed Feb 20, 2019 9:03 pm

Society is just learning that these questions exist, let alone have answers for them. We're living in a time of transition and many people have their own ideas about how things should be.

As for me, none of this affects me directly so I'll happily sit by the sidelines as the various factions duke it out to finalize how society will handle this.

My instinct is that we separate physical competition by gender for reasons only tangentially related to their reproductive organs, so it makes sense to come up with acceptable limits.

We as a society can absolutely address you as the gender of your preference. That doesn't magically alter your physiology. And yes, I understand that the physiology for many trans people is a grey area as well. Just because grey exists doesn't mean black is white and vice versa.

As I said, answering these questions is an ongoing process that I prefer to spectate rather than participate in. Good luck, all involved including society.

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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

Post by Jaymann » Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:04 pm

I have to side with Navratilova and Rogan on this. Remember when the East Germans where chastised for pulling this? Not a good look.
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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

Post by GreenGoo » Wed Feb 20, 2019 11:03 pm

Jaymann wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:04 pm
I have to side with Navratilova and Rogan on this. Remember when the East Germans where chastised for pulling this? Not a good look.
Like, 1/2 a century ago? Sorry, 3+ decades ago.

It's almost like things change over time. It's not so much that I disagree with you or them, or agree with you or them, it's that ancient history is not a precedent that I like to use for modern decisions. Particularly when that ancient history was unbelievable steroid abuse the likes of which I couldn't imagine. Like, Nazi Germany human experimentation levels of abuse. *shudder*

Edit: Reading the history, it seems that Andreas Krieger was born (assigned at birth?) a woman and through heavy (and unknowingly to her/him now) chemical abuse by German authorities began to show masculine traits. She admits that she felt gender dystopia prior to the drugs, so it doesn't seem like the drugs were the sole reason for her transgender...ness?

i.e. she started as a woman and competed as one. While her case is relevant to the overall discussion of transgenders and gender competition, it's *not* an example of a genetic male identifying and competing as a female. So I wouldn't hold him up as evidence in support of Rogan et al.

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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

Post by Moliere » Wed Feb 20, 2019 11:28 pm

How about a 52 year old man who decides he's now a woman and wants to play women's college basketball?

Enlarge Image
Enlarge Image



A man who turns trans after 30 years and then fights women in MMA is literally a man beating the shit out of women. This is not fair physiologically and it's a combat sport where these women are getting beat up by a man.
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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

Post by GreenGoo » Wed Feb 20, 2019 11:36 pm

Moliere wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 11:28 pm
How about a 52 year old man who decides he's now a woman and wants to play women's college basketball?

Enlarge Image
Enlarge Image



A man who turns trans after 30 years and then fights women in MMA is literally a man beating the shit out of women. This is not fair physiologically and it's a combat sport where these women are getting beat up by a man.
Yawn.

Call me when society figures it out. I have barely superficial awareness of the nature of transgender or the science or the psychology behind it. You can hold up as many examples as you want, those examples aren't the defining case on the entirety of transgender and transgenders in competition.

It's not like there is a clear line that you can draw and everything on one side of it is x, and everything on the other side of it is y (see what I did there? *wink, wink*) and that's the end of it. Trying to elicit outrage is a poor replacement for a coherent argument based on the science and nature of transgender.

I've already said I come down on the side that there should be limits. I just don't have the specialized knowledge required to be confident in my opinion or even understand what those limits should or even could be. You're not helping me feel more confident about it by posting these cases.

Separately and for the record, I've repeatedly attempted (although not this time) to watch Rogan's show, and failed every time. I can't get through a single episode because I don't find him compelling, interesting or at times even reasoning. So I kinda wish people would stop bringing him up as relevant to anything, because he's not. It's like bringing Oprah Winfrey in as a subject matter expert.

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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

Post by Max Peck » Wed Feb 20, 2019 11:53 pm

Jaymann wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:04 pm
Remember when the East Germans where chastised for pulling this?
Actually, I don't. What I do remember is that East Germany was notorious for using anabolic steroids to enhance their athletes' performance as a matter of state policy.
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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

Post by Daehawk » Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:04 am

Ill buck a trend and post on bathrooms. Ive never liked the group bathroom thing. Im not Roman. Ive always used the single person ones when I could over the years. Best ones were at the malls. I have a shy bladder and having to use a multi person one is hell sometimes especially when I really had to go bad. So Id like to say why cant stores just make multiple single person restrooms?? Houses have 1-4 so why do stores all have 0-1? Make around 5-8 and for any gender to use. How hard could that be?
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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

Post by Moliere » Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:36 am

8 bathrooms per store? That's a lot of floor sales space to accommodate your shy bladder.
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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

Post by Moliere » Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:40 am

GreenGoo wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 11:36 pm
Separately and for the record, I've repeatedly attempted (although not this time) to watch Rogan's show, and failed every time. I can't get through a single episode because I don't find him compelling, interesting or at times even reasoning. So I kinda wish people would stop bringing him up as relevant to anything, because he's not. It's like bringing Oprah Winfrey in as a subject matter expert.
I posted that specific 18 minute clip of Rogan's show because he is talking about this exact question and answers you about the physiology. I would also argue that Rogan is not Oprah when it comes to fighting. He is a multiple discipline black belt (Taekwondo and jiu-jitsu) who also has the job of being an MMA commentator. Which means he knows a thing or two about fighting. So on this subject I think his view is valid and worth consideration.
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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

Post by Daehawk » Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:47 am

Moliere wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:36 am
8 bathrooms per store? That's a lot of floor sales space to accommodate your shy bladder.
Id venture less than two full sized separate gender bathrooms if you count the ladies have at least 6 stalls and the men 3 stalls and 4 troughs.
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LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

Post by Zarathud » Thu Feb 21, 2019 1:34 am

There are all sorts of shenanigans that happen in a store bathroom even where there is danger of discovery. From bad behavior with toilet paper/poop to theft or sex/rape. The bad behavior worsens if there's no one looking. It's not just a space/economics issue but a safety/theft/sanitation one.
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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

Post by GreenGoo » Thu Feb 21, 2019 2:08 am

Moliere wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:40 am
I posted that specific 18 minute clip of Rogan's show because he is talking about this exact question and answers you about the physiology. I would also argue that Rogan is not Oprah when it comes to fighting. He is a multiple discipline black belt (Taekwondo and jiu-jitsu) who also has the job of being an MMA commentator. Which means he knows a thing or two about fighting. So on this subject I think his view is valid and worth consideration.
I guess I'm trying to say that I don't give a shit what Rogan says about anything. It's not specific to this thread as people have posted clips from his show in the past as well on other subjects (although I'm fairly sure most if not all of those times were you), I'm just using this thread to finally write it out loud. I don't for a second believe he has any relevant knowledge on the subject of transgender, barring degrees in medicine, physiology or psychology (plus any number of other relevant advanced degrees) with years as a practicing doctor, scientist or therapist that I am not aware of. At best he could provide testimony as to what he's witnessed about specific events.

I couldn't care less what he has to say about transgender people in the ring. It could be valid. It could be invalid. It could be literally anything at all, I just don't care. Where society finally settles on this subject will not be decided by an MMA commentator, no matter how many black belts or disciplines he's trained in.

If my response seems unreasonably harsh, it's because I don't give a shit what Rogan says, which I may not have made clear before. Hopefully I've rectified that.

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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

Post by Max Peck » Thu Feb 21, 2019 3:16 am

FWIW, the IOC has already established eligibility guidelines for transgender athletes.
In this spirit, the IOC Consensus Meeting agreed the following guidelines to be taken into account by sports organisations when determining eligibility to compete in male and female competition:
  1. Those who transition from female to male are eligible to compete in the male category without restriction.
  2. Those who transition from male to female are eligible to compete in the female category under the following conditions:
    1. The athlete has declared that her gender identity is female. The declaration cannot be changed, for sporting purposes, for a minimum of four years.
    2. The athlete must demonstrate that her total testosterone level in serum has been below 10 nmol/L for at least 12 months prior to her first competition (with the requirement for any longer period to be based on a confidential case-by-case evaluation, considering whether or not 12 months is a sufficient length of time to minimize any advantage in women’s competition).
    3. The athlete's total testosterone level in serum must remain below 10 nmol/L throughout the period of desired eligibility to compete in the female category.
    4. Compliance with these conditions may be monitored by testing. In the event of non-compliance, the athlete’s eligibility for female competition will be suspended for 12 months.
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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

Post by Fireball » Thu Feb 21, 2019 4:10 am

Moliere wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 11:28 pm
How about a 52 year old man who decides he's now a woman and wants to play women's college basketball?

Enlarge Image
Enlarge Image



A man who turns trans after 30 years and then fights women in MMA is literally a man beating the shit out of women. This is not fair physiologically and it's a combat sport where these women are getting beat up by a man.
People don’t “turn trans” or “decide [they’re] now a woman”. The questions related to how to accommodate trans athletes in traditionally gender-based sporting competitionsare complicated to answer, and impossible to discuss when transphobic rhetoric is thrown about so casually.
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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

Post by Z-Corn » Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:39 am

Zarathud wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 1:34 am
There are all sorts of shenanigans that happen in a store bathroom even where there is danger of discovery. From bad behavior with toilet paper/poop to theft or sex/rape. The bad behavior worsens if there's no one looking. It's not just a space/economics issue but a safety/theft/sanitation one.
People OD a lot in those one-man-show bathrooms too.

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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

Post by Jaymann » Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:15 am

Max Peck wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 11:53 pm
Jaymann wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:04 pm
Remember when the East Germans where chastised for pulling this?
Actually, I don't. What I do remember is that East Germany was notorious for using anabolic steroids to enhance their athletes' performance as a matter of state policy.
My memory was faulty, thanks for the correction.
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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

Post by hepcat » Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:54 am

I think Fireball hit the nail on the head. The question of fairness due to physiology is a logical one, but it gets buried by those who want to view it through the lens of prejudice and downplay it as ridiculous, instead of trying to address it as a serious question.

<hopefully I'm paraphrasing Fireball correctly. If not, please let me know>

As for the restroom subject, personally, I'm not a fan of same sex bathrooms. I'm too old and too indoctrinated by my generation's view on modesty to feel comfortable with it. As long as they maintain a men's room though, I'm perfectly fine with the existence of any other types.
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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

Post by Jaymann » Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:08 pm

Starbucks has multi-sex bathrooms, when it's open you just go in and lock it.
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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

Post by hepcat » Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:25 pm

That's a little different than a free for all of women and men doing their business at the same time. I'm shy. :oops:
I beat a camel to death with a monkey. Can I do that?
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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

Post by Enough » Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:47 pm

Thank you for this.
Fireball wrote:
Moliere wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 11:28 pm
How about a 52 year old man who decides he's now a woman and wants to play women's college basketball?

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A man who turns trans after 30 years and then fights women in MMA is literally a man beating the shit out of women. This is not fair physiologically and it's a combat sport where these women are getting beat up by a man.
People don’t “turn trans” or “decide [they’re] now a woman”. The questions related to how to accommodate trans athletes in traditionally gender-based sporting competitionsare complicated to answer, and impossible to discuss when transphobic rhetoric is thrown about so casually.
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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

Post by LawBeefaroni » Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:53 pm

Jaymann wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:08 pm
Starbucks has multi-sex bathrooms, when it's open you just go in and lock it.
Or don't lock it. Whatevs.
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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

Post by hepcat » Thu Feb 21, 2019 1:38 pm

I leave it wide open so that everyone enjoys the magic that I make!
I beat a camel to death with a monkey. Can I do that?
-Mr Bismarck

You have to whack a few rabbits before you are ready to punch a camel.
-Coopasonic

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