IRS admits targeting conservative groups

For discussion of religion and politics

Moderators: LawBeefaroni, $iljanus

Post Reply
User avatar
Rip
Posts: 26891
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 9:34 pm
Location: Cajun Country!
Contact:

Re: IRS admits targeting conservative groups

Post by Rip »

hepcat wrote:I love it when sites like that try to make themselves appear unbiased by giving themselves names like "Judicial Watch". :lol:
They do provide full financial disclosure. Something the Clinton Foundation struggles with.

They are certainly no more biased than the The Johns Hopkins Center for Gun Policy and Research.
User avatar
hepcat
Posts: 51443
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:02 pm
Location: Chicago, IL Home of the triple homicide!

Re: IRS admits targeting conservative groups

Post by hepcat »

Outrageous! You should post something about that in EBG!
He won. Period.
User avatar
Rip
Posts: 26891
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 9:34 pm
Location: Cajun Country!
Contact:

Re: IRS admits targeting conservative groups

Post by Rip »

Judicial Watch announced that U.S District Court Judge Emmet Sullivan today threatened to hold the Commissioner of the Internal Revenue Service and Justice Department attorneys in contempt of court after the IRS failed to produce status reports and newly recovered emails of Lois Lerner, former director of the Exempt Organizations Unit of the IRS, as he had ordered on July 1, 2015.

During the a status hearing today, Sullivan warned that the failure to follow his order was serious and the IRS and Justice Department’s excuses for not following his July 1 order were “indefensible, ridiculous, and absurd.” He asked the IRS’ Justice Department lawyer Geoffrey Klimas, “Why didn’t the IRS comply” with his court order and “why shouldn’t the Court hold the Commissioner of the IRS in contempt.” Judge Sullivan referenced his contempt findings against Justice Department prosecutors in the prosecution of late Senator Ted Stevens (R-AK) and reminded the Justice Department attorney he had the ability to detain him for contempt. Warning he would tolerate no further disregard of his orders, Judge Sullivan said, “I will haul into court the IRS Commissioner to hold him personally into contempt.”
http://www.judicialwatch.org/press-room ... er-lerner/
User avatar
Zarathud
Posts: 16502
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 10:29 pm
Location: Chicago, Illinois

Re: IRS admits targeting conservative groups

Post by Zarathud »

Isn't it refreshing that Rip likes activist judges who pursue agendas he agrees with?

The Judge issued a production order days before a federal holiday and then throws a fit at the next monthly status hearing? Maybe that's not the whole story. Perhaps Judicial Watch has an interest ignoring the 900 pages of e-mails disclosed this last month. It's not like Congress hasn't already looked multiple times through this haystack for needles.
"If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts." - Albert Einstein
"I don't stand by anything." - Trump
“Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing.” - John Stuart Mill, Inaugural Address Delivered to the University of St Andrews, 2/1/1867
“It is the impractical things in this tumultuous hell-scape of a world that matter most. A book, a name, chicken soup. They help us remember that, even in our darkest hour, life is still to be savored.” - Poe, Altered Carbon
User avatar
Rip
Posts: 26891
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 9:34 pm
Location: Cajun Country!
Contact:

Re: IRS admits targeting conservative groups

Post by Rip »

Zarathud wrote:Isn't it refreshing that Rip likes activist judges who pursue agendas he agrees with?

The Judge issued a production order days before a federal holiday and then throws a fit at the next monthly status hearing? Maybe that's not the whole story. Perhaps Judicial Watch has an interest ignoring the 900 pages of e-mails disclosed this last month. It's not like Congress hasn't already looked multiple times through this haystack for needles.
When in Rome as they say.

I'm not a big fan of activist Judges but since I can't do much about it I might as well cheer for the ones that please me.
User avatar
Jag
Posts: 14435
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:24 pm
Location: SoFla

Re: IRS admits targeting conservative groups

Post by Jag »

Rip wrote:
Judicial Watch announced that U.S District Court Judge Emmet Sullivan today threatened to hold the Commissioner of the Internal Revenue Service and Justice Department attorneys in contempt of court after the IRS failed to produce status reports and newly recovered emails of Lois Lerner, former director of the Exempt Organizations Unit of the IRS, as he had ordered on July 1, 2015.

During the a status hearing today, Sullivan warned that the failure to follow his order was serious and the IRS and Justice Department’s excuses for not following his July 1 order were “indefensible, ridiculous, and absurd.” He asked the IRS’ Justice Department lawyer Geoffrey Klimas, “Why didn’t the IRS comply” with his court order and “why shouldn’t the Court hold the Commissioner of the IRS in contempt.” Judge Sullivan referenced his contempt findings against Justice Department prosecutors in the prosecution of late Senator Ted Stevens (R-AK) and reminded the Justice Department attorney he had the ability to detain him for contempt. Warning he would tolerate no further disregard of his orders, Judge Sullivan said, “I will haul into court the IRS Commissioner to hold him personally into contempt.”
http://www.judicialwatch.org/press-room ... er-lerner/
This is pleasing to me in a way I can't really discuss, but it has very positive implications for a case we are involved in. :ninja:
User avatar
Rip
Posts: 26891
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 9:34 pm
Location: Cajun Country!
Contact:

Re: IRS admits targeting conservative groups

Post by Rip »

Louis Lerner now AKA Toby Miles?!?!?
IRS lawyer Geoffrey J. Klimas told the court that as the agency was putting together a set of documents to turn over to Judicial Watch, it realized Ms. Lerner had used yet another email account, in addition to her official one and another personal one already known to the agency.
“In addition to emails to or from an email account denominated ‘Lois G. Lerner‘ or ‘Lois Home,’ some emails responsive to Judicial Watch’s request may have been sent to or received from a personal email account denominated ‘Toby Miles,’” Mr. Klimas told Judge Emmet G. Sullivan, who is hearing the case.

It is unclear who Toby Miles is, but Mr. Klimas said the IRS has concluded that was “a personal email account used by Lerner.”

Tom Fitton, president of Judicial Watch, said it was stunning the agency was just now admitting the existence of the address.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... l-account/

:pop: :pop: :pop:
User avatar
hepcat
Posts: 51443
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:02 pm
Location: Chicago, IL Home of the triple homicide!

Re: IRS admits targeting conservative groups

Post by hepcat »

Come now, she wasn't going to register on Ashley Madison with her own email address, was she?
He won. Period.
User avatar
GreenGoo
Posts: 42318
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 10:46 pm
Location: Ottawa, ON

Re: IRS admits targeting conservative groups

Post by GreenGoo »

Take about easily stunned.
User avatar
Zarathud
Posts: 16502
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 10:29 pm
Location: Chicago, Illinois

Re: IRS admits targeting conservative groups

Post by Zarathud »

Republican candidate Ben Carson has been so bold as to call for the IRS to revoke the exempt status of Muslim advocacy group CAIR on the campaign trail.

What did this 501(c)(3) have the audacity to say?
"The protection of freedom of religion in America is a fundamental principle of our country so whether you are Christian, you are Jewish, you are Muslim, you are Catholic, you are black, you are brown, you are white — if you are born in this country, if you uphold Constitution, if you have the vision, if you are fit to lead, you can lead irrespective of your faith tradition."
"If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts." - Albert Einstein
"I don't stand by anything." - Trump
“Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing.” - John Stuart Mill, Inaugural Address Delivered to the University of St Andrews, 2/1/1867
“It is the impractical things in this tumultuous hell-scape of a world that matter most. A book, a name, chicken soup. They help us remember that, even in our darkest hour, life is still to be savored.” - Poe, Altered Carbon
User avatar
Rip
Posts: 26891
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 9:34 pm
Location: Cajun Country!
Contact:

Re: IRS admits targeting conservative groups

Post by Rip »

Zarathud wrote:Republican candidate Ben Carson has been so bold as to call for the IRS to revoke the exempt status of Muslim advocacy group CAIR on the campaign trail.

What did this 501(c)(3) have the audacity to say?
"The protection of freedom of religion in America is a fundamental principle of our country so whether you are Christian, you are Jewish, you are Muslim, you are Catholic, you are black, you are brown, you are white — if you are born in this country, if you uphold Constitution, if you have the vision, if you are fit to lead, you can lead irrespective of your faith tradition."
Wait, did he go back in time?

How can you call on something to be revoked that was revoked several years ago?
User avatar
Zarathud
Posts: 16502
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 10:29 pm
Location: Chicago, Illinois

Re: IRS admits targeting conservative groups

Post by Zarathud »

That's explained in my link.

In one of those last-minute Bush tax cuts, the Republican Congress snuck in a rule that starting in 2006 charities with less than $50,000 in revenue had to start filing a postcard with the IRS or automatically lose their 501(c)(3) status. These charities had been told for years that they were too small to need accountants, and that extra bureaucracy would have been wasteful. The IRS wanted authority to send out notices or have some discretion in the process, but Congress refused to act because it was too busy fighting over the budget to care.

The Obama administration acted on its own to authorize the IRS to expedite those charities to get reinstated. CAIR was among tens of thousands who reapplied, and the backlog set the stage for the "conservative groups" to complain they were specifically targeted. Some of them were, but most of them weren't.

I didn't expect you to pay attention to a 3 year thread history or the irony, Rip. But I did expect you to pay more attention to Carson's talking points.
"If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts." - Albert Einstein
"I don't stand by anything." - Trump
“Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing.” - John Stuart Mill, Inaugural Address Delivered to the University of St Andrews, 2/1/1867
“It is the impractical things in this tumultuous hell-scape of a world that matter most. A book, a name, chicken soup. They help us remember that, even in our darkest hour, life is still to be savored.” - Poe, Altered Carbon
User avatar
Rip
Posts: 26891
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 9:34 pm
Location: Cajun Country!
Contact:

Re: IRS admits targeting conservative groups

Post by Rip »

Zarathud wrote:That's explained in my link.

In one of those last-minute Bush tax cuts, the Republican Congress snuck in a rule that starting in 2006 charities with less than $50,000 in revenue had to start filing a postcard with the IRS or automatically lose their 501(c)(3) status. These charities had been told for years that they were too small to need accountants, and that extra bureaucracy would have been wasteful. The IRS wanted authority to send out notices or have some discretion in the process, but Congress refused to act because it was too busy fighting over the budget to care.

The Obama administration acted on its own to authorize the IRS to expedite those charities to get reinstated. CAIR was among tens of thousands who reapplied, and the backlog set the stage for the "conservative groups" to complain they were specifically targeted. Some of them were, but most of them weren't.

I didn't expect you to pay attention to a 3 year thread history or the irony, Rip. But I did expect you to pay more attention to Carson's talking points.
I wasn't trying to push a position. Just confused by the entire controversy. Thanks for clarifying, I hadn't noticed that in the link.
User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 82234
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:

Re: IRS admits targeting conservative groups

Post by Isgrimnur »

Poor management is not a crime.
ustice Department officials announced Friday that they would not seek criminal charges in a long-running inquiry into whether the IRS and former official Lois Lerner targeted conservative groups, including the Tea Party, for increased scrutiny in applications for tax-exempt status.

"Our investigation uncovered substantial evidence of mismanagement, poor judgment and institutional inertia leading to the belief by many tax-exempt applicants that the IRS targeted them based on their political viewpoints,'' Assistant Attorney General Peter Kadzik said Friday in a notification letter to Congress.

"But poor management is not a crime. We found no evidence that that any IRS official acted based on political discriminatory, corrupt or other inappropriate motives that would support a criminal prosecution.''
It's almost as if people are the problem.
User avatar
Rip
Posts: 26891
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 9:34 pm
Location: Cajun Country!
Contact:

Re: IRS admits targeting conservative groups

Post by Rip »

Isgrimnur wrote:Poor management is not a crime.
ustice Department officials announced Friday that they would not seek criminal charges in a long-running inquiry into whether the IRS and former official Lois Lerner targeted conservative groups, including the Tea Party, for increased scrutiny in applications for tax-exempt status.

"Our investigation uncovered substantial evidence of mismanagement, poor judgment and institutional inertia leading to the belief by many tax-exempt applicants that the IRS targeted them based on their political viewpoints,'' Assistant Attorney General Peter Kadzik said Friday in a notification letter to Congress.

"But poor management is not a crime. We found no evidence that that any IRS official acted based on political discriminatory, corrupt or other inappropriate motives that would support a criminal prosecution.''
Excellent. I just hope they remember that should my tax problems ever end up in court.

:ninja:
User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 82234
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:

Re: IRS admits targeting conservative groups

Post by Isgrimnur »

Lerner didn't owe them money.
It's almost as if people are the problem.
User avatar
GreenGoo
Posts: 42318
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 10:46 pm
Location: Ottawa, ON

Re: IRS admits targeting conservative groups

Post by GreenGoo »

Lol.

Well it's nice to be exonerated, anyway.

:oops:
User avatar
Pyperkub
Posts: 23648
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 5:07 pm
Location: NC- that's Northern California

Re: IRS admits targeting conservative groups

Post by Pyperkub »

Isgrimnur wrote:Poor management is not a crime.
ustice Department officials announced Friday that they would not seek criminal charges in a long-running inquiry into whether the IRS and former official Lois Lerner targeted conservative groups, including the Tea Party, for increased scrutiny in applications for tax-exempt status.

"Our investigation uncovered substantial evidence of mismanagement, poor judgment and institutional inertia leading to the belief by many tax-exempt applicants that the IRS targeted them based on their political viewpoints,'' Assistant Attorney General Peter Kadzik said Friday in a notification letter to Congress.

"But poor management is not a crime. We found no evidence that that any IRS official acted based on political discriminatory, corrupt or other inappropriate motives that would support a criminal prosecution.''

Pretty much what we were saying all along here.

Another so-called scandal (e.g. Benghazi!) which was more a political witch hunt than anything nefarious, as usual.
Black Lives definitely Matter Lorini!

Also: There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
User avatar
Zarathud
Posts: 16502
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 10:29 pm
Location: Chicago, Illinois

Re: IRS admits targeting conservative groups

Post by Zarathud »

Don't hold your breath, Rip. Failure to meet statutory obligations to report and pay tax ARE crimes or at least subject to financial penalties.

If you can't meet your obligations because of bad advice from the IRS, you can ask the IRS Appeals office for relief from the penalty, but only rarely the tax.
"If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts." - Albert Einstein
"I don't stand by anything." - Trump
“Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing.” - John Stuart Mill, Inaugural Address Delivered to the University of St Andrews, 2/1/1867
“It is the impractical things in this tumultuous hell-scape of a world that matter most. A book, a name, chicken soup. They help us remember that, even in our darkest hour, life is still to be savored.” - Poe, Altered Carbon
User avatar
Rip
Posts: 26891
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 9:34 pm
Location: Cajun Country!
Contact:

Re: IRS admits targeting conservative groups

Post by Rip »

Yea, just wishful thinking. They are already working a tax lien against me. Knee deep in trying to figure out how to keep them from attempting to get blood from a turnip.
User avatar
Pyperkub
Posts: 23648
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 5:07 pm
Location: NC- that's Northern California

Re: IRS admits targeting conservative groups

Post by Pyperkub »

Rip wrote:Yea, just wishful thinking. They are already working a tax lien against me. Knee deep in trying to figure out how to keep them from attempting to get blood from a turnip.
Best of luck!
Black Lives definitely Matter Lorini!

Also: There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
User avatar
Max Peck
Posts: 13734
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2005 8:09 pm
Location: Down the Rabbit-Hole

Re: IRS admits targeting conservative groups

Post by Max Peck »

Rip wrote:Yea, just wishful thinking. They are already working a tax lien against me. Knee deep in trying to figure out how to keep them from attempting to get blood from a turnip.
I feel your pain. I almost had an issue with the tax man due to an error on their part a couple of years ago, which led me to make an overcontribution to my RRSP. I only squeaked through because there is an arbitrary limit on how much you can overcontribute before you get hit with penalties (up to that point, the overcontribution simply eats into your contribution limit for the next year). I ended up a couple of hundred dollars on the happy side of trouble, but I had to wait a full year to see how it was going to turn out.
"What? What? What?" -- The 14th Doctor

It's not enough to be a good player... you also have to play well. -- Siegbert Tarrasch
User avatar
Zarathud
Posts: 16502
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 10:29 pm
Location: Chicago, Illinois

Re: IRS admits targeting conservative groups

Post by Zarathud »

It's official. I successfully represented two organizations officially on the list of "advocacy" organizations investigated by the IRS in the scandal.

Perhaps the Tea Party groups had worse facts or less competent counsel.
"If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts." - Albert Einstein
"I don't stand by anything." - Trump
“Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing.” - John Stuart Mill, Inaugural Address Delivered to the University of St Andrews, 2/1/1867
“It is the impractical things in this tumultuous hell-scape of a world that matter most. A book, a name, chicken soup. They help us remember that, even in our darkest hour, life is still to be savored.” - Poe, Altered Carbon
User avatar
TheMix
Posts: 10948
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 5:19 pm
Location: Broomfield, Colorado

Re: IRS admits targeting conservative groups

Post by TheMix »

:clap:

:dance:

Nicely done!

Black Lives Matter

Isgrimnur - Facebook makes you hate your friends and family. LinkedIn makes you hate you co-workers. NextDoor makes you hate your neighbors.
User avatar
Pyperkub
Posts: 23648
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 5:07 pm
Location: NC- that's Northern California

Re: IRS admits targeting conservative groups

Post by Pyperkub »

Gee, it was all a big nothing burger to drive fear.
Shortly before Koskinen left office, the Treasury Department Inspector General for Tax Administration released the (presumably) final report on the scandal. Like a previous Inspector General report, it tried to soothe Republican feelings – the IRS really, really should’ve handled things differently -- while utterly refuting Republican charges about what had transpired...

...Contrary to the Republican story, the IRS never targeted conservatives. The IRS targeted politics, which was pretty much what it was supposed to do.
Black Lives definitely Matter Lorini!

Also: There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
User avatar
Zarathud
Posts: 16502
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 10:29 pm
Location: Chicago, Illinois

Re: IRS admits targeting conservative groups

Post by Zarathud »

And now you have Cambridge America admitting to using those outside organizations to illegally coordinate campaign messaging.

The IRS was right, and the Republican dark money operations were the first crack in our wall of democracy.
"If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts." - Albert Einstein
"I don't stand by anything." - Trump
“Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing.” - John Stuart Mill, Inaugural Address Delivered to the University of St Andrews, 2/1/1867
“It is the impractical things in this tumultuous hell-scape of a world that matter most. A book, a name, chicken soup. They help us remember that, even in our darkest hour, life is still to be savored.” - Poe, Altered Carbon
User avatar
Pyperkub
Posts: 23648
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 5:07 pm
Location: NC- that's Northern California

Re: IRS admits targeting conservative groups

Post by Pyperkub »

Zarathud wrote:And now you have Cambridge America admitting to using those outside organizations to illegally coordinate campaign messaging.

The IRS was right, and the Republican dark money operations were the first crack in our wall of democracy.
Thanks citizens united!
Black Lives definitely Matter Lorini!

Also: There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 82234
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:

Re: IRS admits targeting conservative groups

Post by Isgrimnur »

NYT
The Trump administration will end a longstanding requirement that certain nonprofit organizations disclose the names of their large donors to the Internal Revenue Service, a move that will allow some political groups to shield their sources of funding from government scrutiny.

The change, which has been long sought by conservatives and Republicans in Congress, will affect labor unions, social clubs and, most notably, many political groups like the National Rifle Association and the Koch network’s Americans for Prosperity, which collect what is known as “dark money.”

Treasury officials said the reporting change would protect privacy and reduce compliance costs for nonprofits, and that the I.R.S. could still request donor information from groups in the rare event that it was needed for tax scrutiny.

“Americans shouldn’t be required to send the I.R.S. information that it doesn’t need to effectively enforce our tax laws, and the I.R.S. simply does not need tax returns with donor names and addresses to do its job in this area,” Steven Mnuchin, the Treasury secretary, said in a statement on Monday evening.

But critics denounced the measure, saying it increases the likelihood of illegal donations from both domestic and foreign contributors.
...
Political nonprofits will still have to collect the information, but will not be required to turn it over to the government unless they are audited.
...
Officials with the Treasury Department said the move was driven in part by the I.R.S.’s inappropriate targeting of political groups during the administrations of Presidents George W. Bush and Barack Obama. The I.R.S. inspector general found that both conservative and progressive groups were targeted and that I.R.S. officials inappropriately sought information on donors to Tea Party groups as well as to liberal groups.

But conservative groups have also expressed concern that the donor information could fall into the wrong hands and be released for partisan reasons.
It's almost as if people are the problem.
User avatar
Zarathud
Posts: 16502
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 10:29 pm
Location: Chicago, Illinois

Re: IRS admits targeting conservative groups

Post by Zarathud »

The Supreme Court in Citizens United assumed that by allowing political speech it would be transparent and accountable. This action is a threat to American democracy -- particularly as it comes on the heels of charges of Russia funneling money into elections of Republicans through the NRA.

If you can't follow the money, it's hard to prove collusion.
"If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts." - Albert Einstein
"I don't stand by anything." - Trump
“Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing.” - John Stuart Mill, Inaugural Address Delivered to the University of St Andrews, 2/1/1867
“It is the impractical things in this tumultuous hell-scape of a world that matter most. A book, a name, chicken soup. They help us remember that, even in our darkest hour, life is still to be savored.” - Poe, Altered Carbon
User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 82234
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:

Re: IRS admits targeting conservative groups

Post by Isgrimnur »

Having regulatory agencies make policy instead of relying on laws only works when the agencies haven't been captured.
It's almost as if people are the problem.
User avatar
El Guapo
Posts: 41300
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:01 pm
Location: Boston

Re: IRS admits targeting conservative groups

Post by El Guapo »

Isgrimnur wrote: Tue Jul 17, 2018 2:07 pm
Treasury officials said the reporting change would protect privacy and reduce compliance costs for nonprofits, and that the I.R.S. could still request donor information from groups in the rare event that it was needed for tax scrutiny.
...
Political nonprofits will still have to collect the information, but will not be required to turn it over to the government unless they are audited.
Sooo...how is this going to reduce compliance costs for nonprofits? They still need to collect and maintain the records. Transmitting it to the IRS doesn't seem materially more burdensome.

edit: oh, maybe that's just political nonprofits who still have to collect? But then, it also says that the IRS can still request the information from (all) nonprofits, so it seems like all nonprofits still need to collect? Or else they would need some method of collecting the information later if the IRS asks, but that seems impractical.
Last edited by El Guapo on Tue Jul 17, 2018 3:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Black Lives Matter.
User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 82234
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:

Re: IRS admits targeting conservative groups

Post by Isgrimnur »

Freeing business from job-killing postage stamp costs.
It's almost as if people are the problem.
User avatar
LawBeefaroni
Forum Moderator
Posts: 55352
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:08 pm
Location: Urbs in Horto, outrageous taxes on everything

Re: IRS admits targeting conservative groups

Post by LawBeefaroni »

I'm hearing first amendment as a defense for this decision. Since when is is money speech and even if it is, since when does the first amendment guarantee anonymity of that "speech"?

Is my broker violating my first amendment rights by reporting my "speech" when I show or withdraw support for corporations?
" Hey OP, listen to my advice alright." -Tha General
"No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton

MYT
User avatar
Skinypupy
Posts: 20380
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 10:12 am
Location: Utah

Re: IRS admits targeting conservative groups

Post by Skinypupy »

LordMortis wrote: Thu Jul 19, 2018 8:58 am Do you suppose this is all coincidental?

https://www.newsweek.com/nra-admits-acc ... ors-882310
I despise the NRA as much as the next guy, but I have trouble getting worked up about them getting $2,500 in donations from people who may or may not be connected to Russia.
When darkness veils the world, four Warriors of Light shall come.
User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 82234
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:

Re: IRS admits targeting conservative groups

Post by Isgrimnur »

LawBeefaroni wrote: Thu Jul 19, 2018 8:50 am I'm hearing first amendment as a defense for this decision. Since when is is money speech and even if it is, since when does the first amendment guarantee anonymity of that "speech"?

Is my broker violating my first amendment rights by reporting my "speech" when I show or withdraw support for corporations?
Citizens United, the decision that keeps on giving.
Political spending is a form of protected speech under the First Amendment, and the government may not keep corporations or unions from spending money to support or denounce individual candidates in elections. While corporations or unions may not give money directly to campaigns, they may seek to persuade the voting public through other means, including ads, especially where these ads were not broadcast.
It's almost as if people are the problem.
User avatar
Zarathud
Posts: 16502
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 10:29 pm
Location: Chicago, Illinois

Re: IRS admits targeting conservative groups

Post by Zarathud »

The indictment alleges more than $2500.
"If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts." - Albert Einstein
"I don't stand by anything." - Trump
“Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing.” - John Stuart Mill, Inaugural Address Delivered to the University of St Andrews, 2/1/1867
“It is the impractical things in this tumultuous hell-scape of a world that matter most. A book, a name, chicken soup. They help us remember that, even in our darkest hour, life is still to be savored.” - Poe, Altered Carbon
User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 82234
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:

Re: IRS admits targeting conservative groups

Post by Isgrimnur »

Isgrimnur wrote: Tue Jul 17, 2018 2:07 pm NYT
The Trump administration will end a longstanding requirement that certain nonprofit organizations disclose the names of their large donors to the Internal Revenue Service, a move that will allow some political groups to shield their sources of funding from government scrutiny.

The change, which has been long sought by conservatives and Republicans in Congress, will affect labor unions, social clubs and, most notably, many political groups like the National Rifle Association and the Koch network’s Americans for Prosperity, which collect what is known as “dark money.”
Politico
A U.S. District Court judge on Friday issued a ruling invalidating a Federal Election Commission regulation that has allowed donors to so-called dark-money groups to remain anonymous, the latest development in a years-long legal battle that could have major implications for campaign finance.

Judge Beryl A. Howell ruled the FEC's current regulation of such groups, including 501(c) 4 non-profits, fails to uphold the standard Congress intended when it required the disclosure of politically related spending.

"The challenged regulation facilitates such financial 'routing,' blatantly undercuts the congressional goal of fully disclosing the sources of money flowing into federal political campaigns, and thereby suppresses the benefits intended to accrue from disclosure ... ," wrote Howell, an Obama appointee to the D.C district court. The decision is likely to be appealed.
...
The FEC now has 45 days to issue interim regulations that uphold the broader disclosure standards and 30 days to reconsider its original decision to dismiss a complaint about the Crossroads GPS' spending in the Ohio race.

The FEC could appeal the decision, but an appeal would require a unanimous vote from all of the remaining commissioners, since two seats remain vacant. Crossroads could also file an appeal.
It's almost as if people are the problem.
Post Reply