Re: IRS admits targeting conservative groups
Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 10:24 am
Go Canada!Pyperkub wrote:Nah, they outsourced thatKraken wrote:This is the same government that bungled the health care website, right?
That is not dead which can eternal lie, and with strange aeons bring us some web forums whereupon we can gather
http://www.octopusoverlords.com/forum/
Go Canada!Pyperkub wrote:Nah, they outsourced thatKraken wrote:This is the same government that bungled the health care website, right?
Now there is a reliable source Why is it no one seems capable of searching for Lerner emails from the other end?? Good forbid the truth ever come to light about the criminals running our country right now. Nixon anyone? At least he didn't use the IRS.Pyperkub wrote:For those who didn't see the Report from last year, here's the link (it's a pdf):
According to the Director,
Zarathud wrote:They did, theohall.
That's why the IRS didn't think it was a big deal. They found what they could and turned it over. This Issa investigation exists solely to fuel the confirmation bias of conservative conspiracy theorists.
RIP wrote:IRS
Incriminating records Removal Service
I wonder if it's working.Zarathud wrote:They did, theohall.
This Issa investigation exists solely to fuel the confirmation bias of conservative conspiracy theorists.
And the new excuse per an IRS dude (Thomas Kane) is essentially everyone who had a computer, in various locations throughout the country, and worked with Lerner had a computer crash in this time frame and all of the data is lost. Riiiiiggghhhhht. If you actually believe this, you are insanely naive.Zarathud wrote:They did, theohall.
That's why the IRS didn't think it was a big deal. They found what they could and turned it over. This Issa investigation exists solely to fuel the confirmation bias of conservative conspiracy theorists. Every time you dig past the inferences of illegal activity, there's nothing there or evidence the conspiracy doesn't exist.
If you believe anyone outside the right-wing noise machine even gives a shit about any of this anymore, you are insanely naive.theohall wrote:And the new excuse per an IRS dude (Thomas Kane) is essentially everyone who had a computer, in various locations throughout the country, and worked with Lerner had a computer crash in this time frame and all of the data is lost. Riiiiiggghhhhht. If you actually believe this, you are insanely naive.Zarathud wrote:They did, theohall.
That's why the IRS didn't think it was a big deal. They found what they could and turned it over. This Issa investigation exists solely to fuel the confirmation bias of conservative conspiracy theorists. Every time you dig past the inferences of illegal activity, there's nothing there or evidence the conspiracy doesn't exist.
“Did you uncover any evidence that Ms. Lerner intentionally destroyed her hard drive? … [or] intentionally destroyed documents or emails … [or] uncover any evidence that any IRS employee intentionally destroyed documents or emails to avoid their disclosure?” one investigator asked.
To each, essentially he (Kane) responded: “I have seen nothing to that effect.”
“Has [sic] work this morning. Got to talk to their internal 'spooks.' I was going to take the train to windsor Castle, but stuff closes early in winter so it wasn't going to work. Instead, went Hempstead --an Edwardian English village, full of beautiful, huge houses--which have been ruined by letting the hoi paloi live there! These people have ruined everything with their equality push!”
Lerner then sent another email: “Overheard some ladies talking about American today. According to them we've bankrupted ourselves and at through. We'll never be able to pay off our debt and are going down the tubes. They don't seem to see that they can't afford to keep up their welfare state either. Strange.”
http://www.foxbusiness.com/2014/07/31/e ... te-either/IRS official then replied: “Well, you should hear the whacko wing of the GOP. The US is through; too many foreigners sucking the teat; time to hunker down, buy ammo and food, and prepare for the end. The right wing radio shows are scary to listen to.”
Lerner replied: “Great. Maybe we are through if there are that many ---holes.”
The anonymous IRS official replied: “I'm talking about the hosts of the shows. The callers are rabid,” to which Lerner replied: “So we don't need to worry about alien teRrorists. It's our own crazies that will take us down.”
Those first two quotes don't sound very liberal to me, and the third is just... true.Rip wrote:Lois is such an obvious elitist liberal.
“Has [sic] work this morning. Got to talk to their internal 'spooks.' I was going to take the train to windsor Castle, but stuff closes early in winter so it wasn't going to work. Instead, went Hempstead --an Edwardian English village, full of beautiful, huge houses--which have been ruined by letting the hoi paloi live there! These people have ruined everything with their equality push!”Lerner then sent another email: “Overheard some ladies talking about American today. According to them we've bankrupted ourselves and at through. We'll never be able to pay off our debt and are going down the tubes. They don't seem to see that they can't afford to keep up their welfare state either. Strange.”http://www.foxbusiness.com/2014/07/31/e ... te-either/IRS official then replied: “Well, you should hear the whacko wing of the GOP. The US is through; too many foreigners sucking the teat; time to hunker down, buy ammo and food, and prepare for the end. The right wing radio shows are scary to listen to.”
Lerner replied: “Great. Maybe we are through if there are that many ---holes.”
The anonymous IRS official replied: “I'm talking about the hosts of the shows. The callers are rabid,” to which Lerner replied: “So we don't need to worry about alien teRrorists. It's our own crazies that will take us down.”
The more I hear about her the more I think the POTUS didn't need to give her marching orders. She was probably just doing what she believed the POTUS desired and figured they would provide cover if needed.
I don't.Isgrimnur wrote:Have you met the commoners? Who among us doesn't feel better about ourselves than most everyone else?
Not sure how oversight and oppressive get thrown together. I am much more a fan of the government monitoring and overseeing their own rather than spending all their time monitoring and trying to oversee the rest of us.Zarathud wrote:If there's any lesson in this, it's not to use work email to discuss personal opinions.
Then again, Lois was only exercising her Constitutional right to free speech and her emails are only available for Rip to dissect because of oppressive government oversight. Hooray for freedom!?!
The official at the center of the Internal Revenue Service tea party scandal once dismissed complaints that labor unions were not reporting millions of dollars in political activities on their tax forms, according to an email obtained by The Daily Caller News Foundation.
In 2007, Lerner responded directly to a complaint that some major labor unions reported completely different amounts of political expenditures when filing with the IRS and the Department of Labor.
At the time of the email, Lerner was the Director of Exempt Organizations at the IRS.
Lerner wrote, “We looked at the information you provided regarding organizations that report substantial amounts of political activity and lobbying expenditures on the DOL Form LM-2, but report little to no political expenditures on the Form 990 filed with the IRS.”
Don Todd, the deputy assistant secretary of the Office of Labor-Management Standards (OLMS) at the time the email was sent, confirmed seeing Lerner’s email and remembering similar complaints at the time. OLMS oversees labor union financial disclosures within the Department of Labor.
“The laws never been enforced,” Todd told TheDCNF. “The IRS was telling us it would cost more to enforce the law then they would collect.”
In 2006, the year leading up to Lerner’s email, the national headquarters for the AFL-CIO reported no direct or indirect political expenditures with the IRS on their 990 form, leaving the line 81a blank. That same year, the AFL-CIO reported $29,585,661 in political activities with the Department of Labor.
Also in 2006 the Teamsters Union reported no political expenditures with the IRS while at the same time reporting $7,081,965 with the Labor Department.
Again in 2006, Unite-Here reported no political activity with the IRS and $1,451,002 with the Labor Department.
In 2005, the National Education Association also reported no political expenditures with the IRS while at the same time reporting $24,985,250 with the Labor Department.
Lerner acknowledged in the 2007 email, “The definition of political campaign activity required to be reported on Form LM2 coincides with the definition of political campaign activity expenditures required to be reported on Form 990.”
But she did offer some possible reasons for the discrepancies. “The Form LM-2 does not separate this reporting from the reporting of lobbying expenditures,” she wrote. “Furthermore, even if section 501(c)(5) labor organizations were required to report their lobbying expenditures, the amount required to be reported on Form LM-2 includes activity, such as attempting to influence regulations, that is not required to be reported as lobbying, as the IRS limitations apply to legislative lobbying.”
Lerner conceded, “Having said that, we did see some instances that raised concerns and we referred that information to our Dallas office to determine whether examination is warranted.” It does not appear any further investigation was conducted.
I see it as more they are pointing out that when it is their friends (conservatives) they (the IRS) does do their job with a near reckless zeal. However when it is a liberal friendly person or organization they conveniently overlook it or decide it isn't financially worth it.They only want them to do their job when none of their friends are under scrutiny. They should catch every violation, regardless of cost, and do it all with no budget. If not, they are a complete failure as a government entity and should be abolished.
Amazing that so many people can on one hand think the Republicans are rich elites that brilliantly use money and power to control and oppress the poor while on the other hand are to ignorant to use the same simple obfuscations that liberal use on a recurring basis.Zarathud wrote:Grassley wasn't investigated--because there was no money in it. Why can't you grasp that simple fact?
I have read several Tea Party tax exempt applications. They were put together by idiots who didn't understand the rules. They deserved to get audited, and made the situation worse at every step.
Now the application of Crossroads GPS is a masterpiece of obfuscation in answering the IRS questions without hinting at the issues. That's why it sailed through. The copycats did a poor job, and triggered the alarms. And things ground to a halt.
That's how the IRS works as standard operating procedure. There was no political targeting, despite all the tin foil hat claims of conspiracy.
Termed out of the chairmanship of House Oversight Committee.Isgrimnur wrote:Is he going somewhere?
Because we definitely shouldn't enforce the laws on the books regarding campaign finance and 501(c)4's.Judicial Watch today released new Department of Justice (DOJ) and Internal Revenue Service (IRS) documents that include an official “DOJ Recap” report detailing an October 2010 meeting between Lois Lerner, DOJ officials and the FBI to plan for the possible criminal prosecution of targeted nonprofit organizations for alleged illegal political activity.
In 2010, after receiving Baucus’s letter, the IRS considered the issue of auditing donors to 501(c)(4) organizations, alleging that a 35 percent gift tax would be due on donations in excess of $13,000. The documents show that the IRS wanted to cross-check donor lists from 501(c)(4) organizations against gift tax filings and commence audits against taxpayers based on this information.
A gift tax on contributions to 501(c)(4)’s was considered by most to be a dead letter since the IRS had never enforced the rule after the Supreme Court ruled that such taxes violated the First Amendment. The documents show that the IRS had not enforced the gift tax since 1982.
But then, in February 2011, at least five donors of an unnamed organization were audited.
The documents show that Crossroads GPS, associated with Republican Karl Rove, was specifically referenced by IRS officials in the context of applying the gift tax. Seemingly in response to the Crossroads focus, on April 20, IRS attorney Lorraine Gardner emails a 501(c)(4) donor list to former Branch Chief in the IRS’ Office of the Chief Counsel James Hogan. Later, this information is apparently shared with IRS Estate Gift and Policy Manager Lisa Piehl while Gardner seeks “information about any of the donors.”
Emails to and from Lorraine Gardner also suggested bias against the U.S. Chamber of Commerce. An IRS official (whose name is redacted) emails Gardner on May 13, 2011, a blog post responding to the IRS targeting of political and other activities of 501(c)(4), (5) and (6) organizations:
The U.S. Chamber of Commerce is a 501(c)(6) organization and may find itself under high scrutiny. One can only hope.
Later that day, then-Director of the Exempt Organizations Lois Lerner weighs in with an email that confirms that she supported the gift tax audits. Lerner acknowledges that “the courts have said specifically that contributions to 527 political organizations are not subject to the gift tax–nothing that I’m aware of that about contributions to organizations that are not political organizations.” Section 501(c)(4) organizations are not “political organizations.” [Emphasis in original]
Lerner’s involvement and support for the new gift tax contradicts the IRS statement to the media at the time that audits were not part of a “broader effort looking at donations 501(c)(4)’s.” In July 2011, the IRS retreated and soon-to-be Acting IRS Commissioner Steven Miller directed that “examination resources should not be expended on this issue” and that all audits of taxpayers “relating to the application of gift taxes” to 501(c)(4) organizations “should be closed.”
“These documents that we had to force out of the IRS prove that the agency used donor lists to audit supporters of organizations engaged in First Amendment-protected lawful political speech,” said Judicial Watch President Tom Fitton. “And the snarky comments about the U.S. Chamber of Commerce and the obsession with Karl Rove’s Crossroads GPS show that the IRS was targeting critics of the Obama administration. President Obama may want to continue to lie about his IRS scandal. These documents tell the truth – his IRS hated conservatives and was willing to illegally tax and audit citizens to shut down opposition to Barack Obama’s policies and reelection.”