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Pope Francis, changing Christianity?

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Mr Bubbles
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Re: Pope Francis, changing Christianity?

Post by Mr Bubbles »

Now if they can switch it back to Yeshua we'd be golden.
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Re: Pope Francis, changing Christianity?

Post by Grifman »

Rip wrote:[I find it ridiculus to think that is there is a heaven getting there depends on what religion you are or what diety you believe in. It would it seems depend on what your "actions" were while living. I would hope that even if you have no idea of what religion is making the right choices and taking the proper actions during your lifetime would still get you there.

If it is just about rooting for the right team and has nothing to do with how you play the game color me disappointed.

Ok, Rip, bear with me but I am going to ask you a series of simple questions to illustrate the Christan view, one by one.

Question 1:

Let's assume you were a doctor and saved 1,000 lives during your career. What if tomorrow you brutally murdered your wife. What should our criminal justice system do with you?

1) Let you go free because of all the good you've done
2) Send you to prison because you killed your wife

What's your answer?
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Re: Pope Francis, changing Christianity?

Post by hepcat »

If the courts were like the church, he could just say "I repent!" at the last minute and head home with a 10 percent off coupon for Starbucks and the court's blessing.
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Re: Pope Francis, changing Christianity?

Post by Rip »

Grifman wrote:
Rip wrote:[I find it ridiculus to think that is there is a heaven getting there depends on what religion you are or what diety you believe in. It would it seems depend on what your "actions" were while living. I would hope that even if you have no idea of what religion is making the right choices and taking the proper actions during your lifetime would still get you there.

If it is just about rooting for the right team and has nothing to do with how you play the game color me disappointed.

Ok, Rip, bear with me but I am going to ask you a series of simple questions to illustrate the Christan view, one by one.

Question 1:

Let's assume you were a doctor and saved 1,000 lives during your career. What if tomorrow you brutally murdered your wife. What should our criminal justice system do with you?

1) Let you go free because of all the good you've done
2) Send you to prison because you killed your wife

What's your answer?
Impossible to answer without knowing the motive and circumstances that motivated the murder.

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Holman
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Re: Pope Francis, changing Christianity?

Post by Holman »

I'll bite. The obvious answer is "Send you to prison because you killed your wife." Saving lives doesn't earn you wife-murdering privileges in our legal system.

I assume this was the level-one introductory question. [<-- Didn't mean for that to sound so snarky, actually.]
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Re: Pope Francis, changing Christianity?

Post by Combustible Lemur »

Holman wrote:I'll bite. The obvious answer is "Send you to prison because you killed your wife." Saving lives doesn't earn you wife-murdering privileges in our legal system.

I assume this was the level-one introductory question.
Actually the obvious answer is, let him go free, because I made my son walk up to the occupying force's commander and say '' no, no, no, I'm king''. For which he was promptly executed. As such, all he has to do is ask forgiveness from my son, appreciate my sacrifice, and we're all good.

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Re: Pope Francis, changing Christianity?

Post by $iljanus »

I :wub: Pope Francis:

Pope Francis launches reform of Vatican bureaucracy, with cleanup of Vatican bank

and

Pope Francis places luxury-loving German bishop on leave
Bishop Franz-Peter Tebartz-van Elst had dominated tabloid headlines for weeks in Germany as details emerged of a $42 million renovation of his official church residence in the western town of Limburg and a first-class plane trip he took to India. Leaked photographs of fancy upgrades to his residence clashed with Francis’s own example of living in a far less swanky apartment on the grounds of the Vatican.
The bishop in question, Bishop Franz-Peter Tebartz-van Elst, was not amused and attempts to use Force lightning on the new Pope.


Image
tl;dr

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Re: Pope Francis, changing Christianity?

Post by Mr Bubbles »

As has been stated. He is not going to change doctrine, but at least he is cleaning up what corruption he can. I give him credit. He has changed the direction the church is going without totally rewriting the book. Now we can only hope this movement because permanent.
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Re: Pope Francis, changing Christianity?

Post by LawBeefaroni »

$iljanus wrote:I :wub: Pope Francis:

Pope Francis launches reform of Vatican bureaucracy, with cleanup of Vatican bank

and

Pope Francis places luxury-loving German bishop on leave
Bishop Franz-Peter Tebartz-van Elst had dominated tabloid headlines for weeks in Germany as details emerged of a $42 million renovation of his official church residence in the western town of Limburg and a first-class plane trip he took to India. Leaked photographs of fancy upgrades to his residence clashed with Francis’s own example of living in a far less swanky apartment on the grounds of the Vatican.
The bishop in question, Bishop Franz-Peter Tebartz-van Elst, was not amused and attempts to use Force lightning on the new Pope.


Enlarge Image
Cufflinks. Nice. Bet he wears fingerless gloves while driving his Porsche. Also, if I'm not mistaken, that's a wedding ring in Germany. :?:

Must be all the local cheese.
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Re: Pope Francis, changing Christianity?

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LawBeefaroni wrote: Cufflinks. Nice. Bet he wears fingerless gloves while driving his Porsche. Also, if I'm not mistaken, that's a wedding ring in Germany. :?:

Must be all the local cheese.
Wrong hand. Or do they wear wedding rings on their right hands in Germany... Or is the picture inverted...

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Re: Pope Francis, changing Christianity?

Post by LawBeefaroni »

LordMortis wrote:
LawBeefaroni wrote: Cufflinks. Nice. Bet he wears fingerless gloves while driving his Porsche. Also, if I'm not mistaken, that's a wedding ring in Germany. :?:

Must be all the local cheese.
Wrong hand. Or do they wear wedding rings on their right hands in Germany... Or is the picture inverted...
Wiki wrote:In some Orthodox Christian, Roman Catholic and Protestant countries such as Russia, Greece, Georgia, Poland, Austria, Hungary, Germany, Norway, Denmark, Spain, Chile, Venezuela, and India, the wedding ring is worn on the ring finger of the right hand.
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Re: Pope Francis, changing Christianity?

Post by $iljanus »

LawBeefaroni wrote:
LordMortis wrote:
LawBeefaroni wrote: Cufflinks. Nice. Bet he wears fingerless gloves while driving his Porsche. Also, if I'm not mistaken, that's a wedding ring in Germany. :?:

Must be all the local cheese.
Wrong hand. Or do they wear wedding rings on their right hands in Germany... Or is the picture inverted...
Wiki wrote:In some Orthodox Christian, Roman Catholic and Protestant countries such as Russia, Greece, Georgia, Poland, Austria, Hungary, Germany, Norway, Denmark, Spain, Chile, Venezuela, and India, the wedding ring is worn on the ring finger of the right hand.
Probably just a run of the mill Bishop's Ring...or one of the nine Rings of Power.
tl;dr

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Re: Pope Francis, changing Christianity?

Post by Pyperkub »

Mr Bubbles wrote:As has been stated. He is not going to change doctrine, but at least he is cleaning up what corruption he can. I give him credit. He has changed the direction the church is going without totally rewriting the book. Now we can only hope this movement because permanent.
I'm having trouble fathoming how he was actually elected. Benedict must have really angered a lot of people for this kind of swing.
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Re: Pope Francis, changing Christianity?

Post by Holman »

It's said that Francis (or Bergoglio, at the time) was actually the close runner-up in 2005 when Ratzinger was chosen. I don't know what's involved in high-level Papal politics, but that would definitely have been a clear choice between a known liberal and a known conservative.
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Re: Pope Francis, changing Christianity?

Post by Mr Bubbles »

Pyperkub wrote:
Mr Bubbles wrote:As has been stated. He is not going to change doctrine, but at least he is cleaning up what corruption he can. I give him credit. He has changed the direction the church is going without totally rewriting the book. Now we can only hope this movement because permanent.
I'm having trouble fathoming how he was actually elected. Benedict must have really angered a lot of people for this kind of swing.
While they don't acknowledge things outwardly, I think they could see the writing on the wall and realized that the future of the Catholic Church was not Benedict. Benedict was all about dogma and ritual and Francis is about reevaluating the spiritual world of Catholicism, which is something that is greatly needed. Mind you not reinventing the church, but rediscovering it. Catholicism from my experience has always been about living as Jesus lived, and with the focus on abortion, gay rights, contraception, Jesus got lost in the equation. It is a fundamental shift back to the life of Jesus versus contemporary ethical issues. The American Bishops have become very conservative so I'm curious as to how they will respond to the popes new direction. As politicized as they are I'm sure they are not on the top of Francis's good graces.
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Re: Pope Francis, changing Christianity?

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LordMortis wrote:
LawBeefaroni wrote: Cufflinks. Nice. Bet he wears fingerless gloves while driving his Porsche. Also, if I'm not mistaken, that's a wedding ring in Germany. :?:

Must be all the local cheese.
Wrong hand. Or do they wear wedding rings on their right hands in Germany... Or is the picture inverted...
Germans do indeed wear their wedding rings on the right hand. I would try to switch it when we go to Germany, but for whatever reason my two hands have slightly different ring sizes.
“The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.”
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Re: Pope Francis, changing Christianity?

Post by Zarathud »

Benedict was chosen because the Catholic Cardinals weren't ready for an outsider and wanted to build up the conservatives. After Benedict's failure and resignation, I believe they thought Francis could be controlled. They were wrong.
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Re: Pope Francis, changing Christianity?

Post by ImLawBoy »

$iljanus wrote:
LawBeefaroni wrote:
LordMortis wrote:
LawBeefaroni wrote: Cufflinks. Nice. Bet he wears fingerless gloves while driving his Porsche. Also, if I'm not mistaken, that's a wedding ring in Germany. :?:

Must be all the local cheese.
Wrong hand. Or do they wear wedding rings on their right hands in Germany... Or is the picture inverted...
Wiki wrote:In some Orthodox Christian, Roman Catholic and Protestant countries such as Russia, Greece, Georgia, Poland, Austria, Hungary, Germany, Norway, Denmark, Spain, Chile, Venezuela, and India, the wedding ring is worn on the ring finger of the right hand.
Probably just a run of the mill Bishop's Ring...or one of the nine Rings of Power.
This. I've even seen regular old Catholic priests wearing what appear to be wedding bands - I always say they're married to the church.
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Re: Pope Francis, changing Christianity?

Post by LawBeefaroni »

ImLawBoy wrote: This. I've even seen regular old Catholic priests wearing what appear to be wedding bands - I always say they're married to the church.
Or in this case, married to the church residence.
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Re: Pope Francis, changing Christianity?

Post by mori »

I watched a grindhouse movie the other night called Nude Nuns With Big Guns. I was thinking there must be a whole lot of resentment towards the Catholic church for a movie like this to be made. I think it is going to take more than words from a Pope to change a couple of millennia of wrongs. He might stem the tide of people leaving, but I do not see many coming back. I do like the message of don't worry about the small shit.

I was also thinking if a movie like that got made about Islam, holy shit storm! Probably would be banned and calls of fataw to anyone involved.
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Re: Pope Francis, changing Christianity?

Post by Holman »

Pope Francis: "Reaganomics suck!"

(From his Evangelii Gaudium:)
"Some people continue to defend trickle-down theories which assume that economic growth, encouraged by a free market, will inevitably succeed in bringing about greater justice and inclusiveness in the world. This opinion, which has never been confirmed by the facts, expresses a crude and naïve trust in the goodness of those wielding economic power and in the sacralized workings of the prevailing economic system. Meanwhile, the excluded are still waiting."

...

"As long as the problems of the poor are not radically resolved by rejecting the absolute autonomy of markets and financial speculation and by attacking the structural causes of inequality, no solution will be found for the world's problems or, for that matter, to any problems."

...

"Just as the commandment 'Thou shalt not kill' sets a clear limit in order to safeguard the value of human life, today we also have to say 'thou shalt not' to an economy of exclusion and inequality. Such an economy kills."
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Re: Pope Francis, changing Christianity?

Post by Moliere »

Curiosity sucks too.
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Re: Pope Francis, changing Christianity?

Post by Carpet_pissr »

Pyperkub wrote:The election of Francis after Benedict seems to have made for a dramatic change at the top of the Catholic Church. From the outside, it seems as if Pope Francis is actually embracing what I was taught that being a Christian meant and it feels revolutionary to me. Rather than focusing on a message which (it seemed to me) bordered on hate, he seems to be preaching compassion and love.

It's enough to make the religious cynic in me pay attention.
+1

As a non-Catholic, I really like this guy, and sincerely hope that he is the real deal in terms of the humility and modesty that we see of him in public.

I got to know several Jesuit priests very well when I lived in Argentina, and I can say without question, they were some of the most awesome, inspiring and philosophically intelligent people I have ever met. I felt like I was talking with Plato or Socrates when I was hanging out with them. Philosopher kings?

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Re: Pope Francis, changing Christianity?

Post by Fireball »

Moliere wrote:Curiosity sucks too.
A pretty specific form of it:
Pope Francis warned against the "spirit of curiosity" when attempting to find God and religious messages in outside forces, or trying to predict when Jesus Christ will return, reminding believers that the "The Kingdom of God is among you."
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Re: Pope Francis, changing Christianity?

Post by Holman »

Fireball wrote:
Moliere wrote:Curiosity sucks too.
A pretty specific form of it:
Pope Francis warned against the "spirit of curiosity" when attempting to find God and religious messages in outside forces, or trying to predict when Jesus Christ will return, reminding believers that the "The Kingdom of God is among you."
"I'm looking at you, Michele Bachmann."
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Re: Pope Francis, changing Christianity?

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That's not likely to fly well:
Bachmann was a longtime member of the Salem Evangelical Lutheran Church in Stillwater, Minn., which belongs to the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod (WELS), a council of churches founded in 1850 that today comprises about 400,000 people. WELS is the most conservative of the major Lutheran church organizations, known for its strict adherence to the writings of Martin Luther, the German theologian who broke with the Catholic Church and launched the Protestant Reformation in the 16th century. This includes endorsing Luther's statements about the papacy. From the WELS "Doctrinal Statement on the Antichrist":
Since Scripture teaches that the Antichrist would be revealed and gives the marks by which the Antichrist is to be recognized, and since this prophecy has been clearly fulfilled in the history and development of the Roman Papacy, it is Scripture which reveals that the Papacy is the Antichrist.

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Re: Pope Francis, changing Christianity?

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Isgrimnur wrote:That's not likely to fly well:
Bachmann was a longtime member of the Salem Evangelical Lutheran Church in Stillwater, Minn., which belongs to the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod (WELS), a council of churches founded in 1850 that today comprises about 400,000 people. WELS is the most conservative of the major Lutheran church organizations, known for its strict adherence to the writings of Martin Luther, the German theologian who broke with the Catholic Church and launched the Protestant Reformation in the 16th century. This includes endorsing Luther's statements about the papacy. From the WELS "Doctrinal Statement on the Antichrist":
Since Scripture teaches that the Antichrist would be revealed and gives the marks by which the Antichrist is to be recognized, and since this prophecy has been clearly fulfilled in the history and development of the Roman Papacy, it is Scripture which reveals that the Papacy is the Antichrist.
No kidding. Rumor has it he's sneaking out at night rousing rabble on the streets.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/0 ... 73884.html" target="_blank

Damned liberal Catholics

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politic ... -1.1514616" target="_blank

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Re: Pope Francis, changing Christianity?

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Some FOX News commentator called the Pope "The Catholic Church's Obama."
“Just like President Obama loved apologizing for America, Pope Francis likes to apologize for the Catholic Church.”
“Just like Obama thought he’d won over Putin by promising a reset, Francis thinks by talking vacuously about the poor, he will be respected.”
“Like Obama, Francis is unable to see the problems that are really endangering his people.”
“Like Obama he mistakes the faithful for the enemy, the enemy for his friend, condescension for respect, socialism for justice and capitalism for tyranny.”
“In trying to please the media and the modern world, Francis mistakes their glee for respect.”
I think I like this Pope fellow.

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Re: Pope Francis, changing Christianity?

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IMPEACH!!1!
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Re: Pope Francis, changing Christianity?

Post by Zarathud »

So that makes Pope Benedict XVI the Catholic Church's George W. Bush?

That FOX commentator is now the former film and video game reviewer for Catholic News Service. It seems you can be a news editor at FOX, but suited only to cover film and video games in other media outlets.
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Re: Pope Francis, changing Christianity?

Post by Carpet_pissr »

Kraken wrote:Some FOX News commentator called the Pope "The Catholic Church's Obama."
“Just like President Obama loved apologizing for America, Pope Francis likes to apologize for the Catholic Church.”
“Just like Obama thought he’d won over Putin by promising a reset, Francis thinks by talking vacuously about the poor, he will be respected.”
“Like Obama, Francis is unable to see the problems that are really endangering his people.”
“Like Obama he mistakes the faithful for the enemy, the enemy for his friend, condescension for respect, socialism for justice and capitalism for tyranny.”
“In trying to please the media and the modern world, Francis mistakes their glee for respect.”
I think I like this Pope fellow.
Ha! Yeah, I already liked the guy, now he's a superhero if "the Fox position" is decrying him.

I assume in item #3, "his people" is a reference to Muslim terrorists for Obama, and Opus Dei for Francis.

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Re: Pope Francis, changing Christianity?

Post by Kraken »

You've got to hand this to FOX -- I'm not a Christian and I wasn't the least bit interested in the Pope until they came out against him. :lol:

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Re: Pope Francis, changing Christianity?

Post by $iljanus »

If they have such a problem with Francis wait till they read about this Jesus fella.
tl;dr

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Re: Pope Francis, changing Christianity?

Post by Alefroth »

$iljanus wrote:If they have such a problem with Francis wait till they read about this Jesus fella.
He was such a zealot.

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Re: Pope Francis, changing Christianity?

Post by LordMortis »

$iljanus wrote:If they have such a problem with Francis wait till they read about this Jesus fella.
:coffee:

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Re: Pope Francis, changing Christianity?

Post by Moliere »

"The world is suffering more today from the good people who want to mind other men's business than it is from the bad people who are willing to let everybody look after their own individual affairs." - Clarence Darrow

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Re: Pope Francis, changing Christianity?

Post by gbasden »

Oh, here we go. How long until the Duck Dynasty crowd starts saying that the Cardinal is having his First Amendment rights violated?

I do like me some Francis, though.

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Re: Pope Francis, changing Christianity?

Post by Isgrimnur »

Cardinal Raymond Burke, former Archbishop of St. Louis, will no longer serve in the office.

Burke is considered an outspoken critic of abortion and same-sex marriage and a favorite of conservative Catholics. He has also been publicly critical of Francis's changes in the direction of the church. Burke retains his position as the head of the Vatican high court, the Apostolic Signatura.
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Re: Pope Francis, changing Christianity?

Post by tjg_marantz »

This guy is something else.
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Re: Pope Francis, changing Christianity?

Post by Moliere »

Pope defrocks 400 priests in 2 years for sex abuse
A document obtained by The Associated Press on Friday shows Pope Benedict XVI defrocked nearly 400 priests over just two years for molesting children.

The statistics for 2011-12 show a dramatic increase over the 171 priests removed in 2008 and 2009, when the Vatican first provided details on the number of priests who have been defrocked. Prior to that, it had only publicly revealed the number of alleged cases of sexual abuse it had received.
Hopefully this leads to a civil trials for these priests and compensation for the victims.
"The world is suffering more today from the good people who want to mind other men's business than it is from the bad people who are willing to let everybody look after their own individual affairs." - Clarence Darrow

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