Octopus Overlords

Zarathud wrote:Election year. Catholics vote.

The New York Times wrote:Francis' Christmas greeting to the cardinals, bishops and priests who run the Holy See was no joyful exchange of holiday good wishes. Rather, it was a sobering catalog of 15 sins of the Curia that Francis said he hoped would be atoned for and cured in the New Year.

He had some zingers: How the "terrorism of gossip" can "kill the reputation of our colleagues and brothers in cold blood." How cliques can "enslave their members and become a cancer that threatens the harmony of the body" and eventually kill it by "friendly fire." About how those living hypocritical double lives are "typical of mediocre and progressive spiritual emptiness that no academic degree can fill."

AWS260 wrote:The pope's Christmas greeting: Get your shit together, people.

The New York Times wrote:Francis' Christmas greeting to the cardinals, bishops and priests who run the Holy See was no joyful exchange of holiday good wishes. Rather, it was a sobering catalog of 15 sins of the Curia that Francis said he hoped would be atoned for and cured in the New Year.

He had some zingers: How the "terrorism of gossip" can "kill the reputation of our colleagues and brothers in cold blood." How cliques can "enslave their members and become a cancer that threatens the harmony of the body" and eventually kill it by "friendly fire." About how those living hypocritical double lives are "typical of mediocre and progressive spiritual emptiness that no academic degree can fill."

Drazzil wrote:I love this Pope.

Just a few years ago, former St. Louis Archbishop Raymond Leo Burke was riding high. A conservative leader in a conservative Catholic Church under a conservative pope, he seemed to fall into the Vatican’s favor after taking a few high-profile stands against the godless.

The fights he picked always managed to make headlines. In 2004, the Wisconsin native said he would refuse to give pro-choice Sen. John Kerry (D-Mass.) communion. In 2007, he resigned from the board of a Catholic hospital after it invited Sheryl Crow, who is pro-choice, to play a benefit concert. And in 2009, he let the University of Notre Dame have it for giving President Obama an honorary degree...

...After a few high-profile disagreements with Burke, Francis made him patron of the Sovereign Military Order of Malta, a charity. The Associated Press called the office “largely ceremonial.”

It was as if Chief Justice John Roberts had been sent to call balls and strikes at a little-league game. The Catholic News Service expounded upon the seriousness of Francis’s diss of the 66-year-old cardinal:

It is highly unusual for a pope to remove an official of Cardinal Burke’s stature and age without assigning him comparable responsibilities elsewhere. By church law, cardinals in the Vatican must offer to resign at 75, but often continue in office for several more years. As usual when announcing personnel changes other than retirements for reasons of age, the Vatican did not give a reason for the cardinal’s reassignment.

Burke, who was recently demoted from the Vatican's highest court to a ceremonial philanthropic post, pointed to the introduction of altar girls for why fewer men are joining the priesthood.

"Young boys don't want to do things with girls. It's just natural," Burke said in an interview published Monday. "I think that this has contributed to a loss of priestly vocations."

"It requires a certain manly discipline to serve as an altar boy in service at the side of priest, and most priests have their first deep experiences of the liturgy as altar boys," the former archbishop of St. Louis told Matthew James Christoff, who heads a Catholic men's ministry that called the New Emangelization Project.

AWS260 wrote:Burke is a real piece of work.

Burke, who was recently demoted from the Vatican's highest court to a ceremonial philanthropic post, pointed to the introduction of altar girls for why fewer men are joining the priesthood.

"Young boys don't want to do things with girls. It's just natural," Burke said in an interview published Monday. "I think that this has contributed to a loss of priestly vocations."

"It requires a certain manly discipline to serve as an altar boy in service at the side of priest, and most priests have their first deep experiences of the liturgy as altar boys," the former archbishop of St. Louis told Matthew James Christoff, who heads a Catholic men's ministry that called the New Emangelization Project.

ImLawBoy wrote:Wait, what? Cash tips? I never got a tip for being an altar boy in my life!

LawBeefaroni wrote:

ImLawBoy wrote:Wait, what? Cash tips? I never got a tip for being an altar boy in my life!

Happy Holidays, baby. Also weddings and funerals.

stessier wrote:

LawBeefaroni wrote:

ImLawBoy wrote:Wait, what? Cash tips? I never got a tip for being an altar boy in my life!

Happy Holidays, baby. Also weddings and funerals.

Never got it for the holidays, but yes for weddings (only did one funeral and it was a relative). After the ceremony, if there was no envelope waiting, we always went back to congratulate the happy couple on the way out of the Church. I must have done more than 30 weddings and only once was there nothing (and when the priest found out he gave us a tip out of his own wallet). $20 was the most common, $10 occasionally, $5 once.

I've always thought it was a weird custom though.

Holman wrote:Evangelical adolescence has its own things. I guess the altar boy equivalent is assisting with communion and collection, which I did lots of times. We had a church leadership program that actually saw me delivering a sermon from the pulpit on two occasions, but I did get tipped? Zippo.

Grifman wrote:

Holman wrote:Evangelical adolescence has its own things. I guess the altar boy equivalent is assisting with communion and collection, which I did lots of times. We had a church leadership program that actually saw me delivering a sermon from the pulpit on two occasions, but I did get tipped? Zippo.

You don't get tipped for regular scheduled services. Altar boys get tipped because weddings and funerals are extra duty, just like most pastors, soloists and organists get paid/tipped.

Grifman wrote:

Holman wrote:Evangelical adolescence has its own things. I guess the altar boy equivalent is assisting with communion and collection, which I did lots of times. We had a church leadership program that actually saw me delivering a sermon from the pulpit on two occasions, but I did get tipped? Zippo.

You don't get tipped for regular scheduled services. Altar boys get tipped because weddings and funerals are extra duty, just like most pastors, soloists and organists get paid/tipped.

LawBeefaroni wrote: Funerals were tough, you had to be able to be somber and eminently respectful and sometimes had to travel.

AWS260 wrote:Burke is a real piece of work.

Burke, who was recently demoted from the Vatican's highest court to a ceremonial philanthropic post, pointed to the introduction of altar girls for why fewer men are joining the priesthood.

"Young boys don't want to do things with girls. It's just natural," Burke said in an interview published Monday. "I think that this has contributed to a loss of priestly vocations."

"It requires a certain manly discipline to serve as an altar boy in service at the side of priest, and most priests have their first deep experiences of the liturgy as altar boys," the former archbishop of St. Louis told Matthew James Christoff, who heads a Catholic men's ministry that called the New Emangelization Project.

Francis also wants the world to do more to address it. He wasn't a big fan of the agreement that came out of last month's UN climate talks in Lima — in which every country agreed to put forward pledges to constrain carbon emissions, albeit entirely voluntary pledges.

"The Peru meeting was nothing much, it disappointed me," Francis said. "I think there was a lack of courage. They stopped at a certain point. Let's hope the delegates in Paris will be more courageous and move forward with this." By "Paris," he means the big UN summit at Paris in December, where countries are hoping to hammer out a final global accord on curtailing greenhouse-gas emissions and responding to climate change.

As Andrew Freedman points out at Mashable, the pope's comments are coming at exactly the moment that the US Senate is debating whether to approve a non-binding resolution that says humans are responsible for global warming. Many Republicans still seem to be cagey about agreeing to even this basic premise.

Answering a question about birth control on Monday, Francis said that parents shouldn't procreate endlessly, trusting in God that it will all work out.

"But God gives you methods to be responsible," Francis said. "Some think that, excuse me if I use that word, that in order to be good Catholics we have to be like rabbits. No. Responsible parenthood."

On his way to the Philippines last week, Francis was asked about the terrorist attack on the French magazine Charlie Hebdo. While denouncing terrorism, the Pope said there are limits to free speech.

"If Dr. Gasbarri, a great friend, says a swear word against my mother, then a punch awaits him," Francis said, referring to Alberto Gasbarri, a man who organizes papal trips and was then standing next to him on the plane.

"It's normal, it's normal. One cannot provoke, one cannot insult other people's faith, one cannot make fun of faith."

The Pope said Monday that, in theory, violence contradicts Jesus' "turn the other cheek" teachings, but in practice, people must be prudent enough not to needlessly provoke others -- unless they want to risk a harsh response.

"The Internet, in particular, offers immense possibilities for encounter and solidarity," Francis said last year. "This is something truly good, a gift from God."

Isgrimnur wrote:He's using a fighting words doctrine, which in the US requires immediacy in the threat, to excuse calculated murders. So much for personal responsibility.

Moliere wrote:The concept of the pope is as outdated as royalty. Get over yourself and stop acting like you have a direct line to a god. You're a joke and a hypocrite. Free speech trumps your hurt feelings.

Rip wrote:An even finer line between forgiving and enabling.

RuperT wrote:

Rip wrote:An even finer line between forgiving and enabling.

I feel like we don't need the Pope to forbid us from murder. Has anyone ever considered that?

I don't see how this is a markedly different free speech sentiment than "Don't be a jerk."