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Shutdown

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Fireball
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Shutdown

Post by Fireball » Tue Oct 01, 2013 12:15 am

It's 12:04am on the East Coast, and the United States Federal government has just shut down due to a lack of appropriation of funds.

The last twenty minutes have been crazy in the Capitol. My boss and I made it through one of the doors to Longworth as they were preparing to lock it down, as it will not be the door open during shutdown. The hallways were filled with cleaning folks trying to get the entire night's work done before most of the cleaning staff was furloughed at midnight. It's going to be a strange few days (hopefully only a few days) around here until this latest crisis is resolved.

Just in time for the debt limit showdown.
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Re: Shutdown

Post by Jaymann » Tue Oct 01, 2013 12:26 am

MFing Teabaggers.
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Re: Shutdown

Post by Skinypupy » Tue Oct 01, 2013 12:41 am

There aren't enough f-bombs in the English language to properly express my displeasure with tonight's political nonsense.
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Re: Shutdown

Post by RunningMn9 » Tue Oct 01, 2013 12:47 am

Fireball1244 wrote:crisis
What crisis? This is completely manufactured out of nothing. That's not a crisis. It's stupidity and a failure to lead.
And in banks across the world
Christians, Moslems, Hindus, Jews
And every other race, creed, colour, tint or hue
Get down on their knees and pray
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Make up bags of change
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Well he's slowly drifting out of range

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Re: Shutdown

Post by Zarathud » Tue Oct 01, 2013 1:01 am

It's a failure of the Republicans to govern. You can't force them to pay the bills if they control the House. The Republicans could never pass a budget even when George W. Bush was President. We'd find out every year that an Omnibus budget/tax bill passed just before year end full of loopholes and tax preferences.

They don't have the votes to do anything about Obamacare, but they're not going to stop throwing a tantrum about it.
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Re: Shutdown

Post by Kraken » Tue Oct 01, 2013 1:16 am

And yet both sides think this is going to be good for them, politically.

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Re: Shutdown

Post by Alefroth » Tue Oct 01, 2013 1:43 am

Kraken wrote:And yet both sides think this is going to be good for them, politically.
One side is much more delusional than the other.

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Re: Shutdown

Post by gbasden » Tue Oct 01, 2013 3:54 am

Yet more proof that the lunatics are running the asylum.

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Re: Shutdown

Post by Daehawk » Tue Oct 01, 2013 5:22 am

They take enough tax from us each week to run a average sized country for a year and yet this goes on. Ive said it for years and this is just more proof. We need to oust the whole of the government and get a new one that actually listens to the people and acts in their interests and not just in their own payday check.
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Re: Shutdown

Post by Holman » Tue Oct 01, 2013 7:35 am

Alefroth wrote:
Kraken wrote:And yet both sides think this is going to be good for them, politically.
One side is much more delusional than the other.
They're so gerrymandered into their delusions that it might actually be good for some of them. It will just be bad for the rest of us.
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.

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Re: Shutdown

Post by Smoove_B » Tue Oct 01, 2013 7:44 am

No big. The 533 members of Congress still get their paychecks during the shutdown. I am nearly certain revolutions have been started over less and those fuckers should be ashamed of themselves for allowing this to happen.

Double EDIT: And hey, the Farm Bill extension didn't pass either. Food stamps...still good. WIC....not so much.
Last edited by Smoove_B on Tue Oct 01, 2013 7:57 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Shutdown

Post by Redfive » Tue Oct 01, 2013 7:55 am

Zarathud wrote:It's a failure of the Republicans to govern. You can't force them to pay the bills if they control the House. The Republicans could never pass a budget even when George W. Bush was President. We'd find out every year that an Omnibus budget/tax bill passed just before year end full of loopholes and tax preferences.

They don't have the votes to do anything about Obamacare, but they're not going to stop throwing a tantrum about it.
Republicans are not in control so not sure how they are going to govern. Budgets were passed during the Bush years.

It's cool to be super pissed and all but you might want to make sure the reasons are accurate.

Or not I guess, it doesn't stop most folks.
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Re: Shutdown

Post by Vorret » Tue Oct 01, 2013 7:58 am

:pop:

Silly politicians.
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Re: Shutdown

Post by Smoove_B » Tue Oct 01, 2013 8:01 am

Redfive wrote: Republicans are not in control so not sure how they are going to govern.
And yet, it's going according to their plan:
We’re very excited,” said Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-Minn.). “It’s exactly what we wanted, and we got it.”
“It’s wonderful,” said Rep. John Abney Culberson (R-Tex.), clapping his hands to emphasize the point. “We’re 100 percent united!”
Bachmann insisted that the GOP would ultimately be rewarded for standing firm. “People will be very grateful,” she said.

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Re: Shutdown

Post by hepcat » Tue Oct 01, 2013 8:46 am

The republicans are probably not going to like upcoming poll results. You can't hold the country hostage and demand things without the victim's family being even slightly upset.

Or, as Eco likes to put it, I'm just saying.
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Re: Shutdown

Post by Drazzil » Tue Oct 01, 2013 8:52 am

Fucking Republicans think they can temper tantrum their way into a better deal with our pussy appeaser president. Fuck em all.
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Re: Shutdown

Post by malchior » Tue Oct 01, 2013 8:59 am

hepcat wrote:The republicans are probably not going to like upcoming poll results. You can't hold the country hostage and demand things without the victim's family being even slightly upset.

Or, as Eco likes to put it, I'm just saying.
They are poll immune -- except when they can roll out a new talking point that supports them.

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Re: Shutdown

Post by Jag » Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:05 am

So is there any upside to a shutdown? Does it make people think that maybe we shouldn't be so reliant on the Federal Government? Obviously emergency services are important, but maybe Government needs a shakedown.

I really don't know much about the Shutdown and I think I'm fairly educated. I am sure most Americans don't really understand it either.

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Re: Shutdown

Post by Skinypupy » Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:08 am

Since we're obviously being governed by petulant children, I hereby nominate Little B 4.6 as Speaker of the House.
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Re: Shutdown

Post by LordMortis » Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:14 am

And while this happens I can't help but wonder if we can follow Congress and their lobbyists' stock portfolios through all of this. Not just Tea Baggers and Republicans but all of them. How will money trickles up with WallStreet's temporary deflation over the turmoil?

I also notice this inability to compromise comes right after most of the US being good drones and preparing for their retirement adds payroll to automatic 401k deposits.

I think the Occupiers have permanently broken my inability to look at anything from a how do the people at the top of the food chain use their position to entrench their position. I have no evidence that these actions make the rich richer while screwing the economy and the not rich but it sure does seem like all of this shit over the last 18 years has gone hand in hand with the rich getting richer at the expense of the not rich.

How's that transparency working for us?

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Re: Shutdown

Post by pr0ner » Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:23 am

Jag wrote:So is there any upside to a shutdown? Does it make people think that maybe we shouldn't be so reliant on the Federal Government? Obviously emergency services are important, but maybe Government needs a shakedown.

I really don't know much about the Shutdown and I think I'm fairly educated. I am sure most Americans don't really understand it either.
Some people suggest that the shutdown could delay the next debt ceiling debate (which hits in two weeks!). Beyond that, I'm not sure.

My entire agency is remaining open, though, so it's off to work for me.
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Re: Shutdown

Post by Carpet_pissr » Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:29 am

Yargh. And I have a family trip planned to Philadelphia later this month (which means basically all the cool, historical shit to see there will be closed). Let's hope they can get something cobbled together sooner than the last time this happened (think it was 18 days before).

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Re: Shutdown

Post by $iljanus » Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:32 am

Smoove_B wrote:No big. The 533 members of Congress still get their paychecks during the shutdown. I am nearly certain revolutions have been started over less and those fuckers should be ashamed of themselves for allowing this to happen.

Double EDIT: And hey, the Farm Bill extension didn't pass either. Food stamps...still good. WIC....not so much.
You know, I understand why the folks in Congress are getting paid but it seems like they will be also paid on time which is a crock of shit since my wife who is exempt and is handling quite a few complicated patient cases currently will not be paid till this is all said and done. She's a pediatric oncologist. Of course our bills are not being temporarily furloughed. And I'm not exempted this shutdown unlike the 96-97 one. The only upshot of that is that I'll have time to put together the new computer with the parts I bought in the early Summer. But I'd rather be doing the experiments that needed doing in my lab.

Utter bullshit.
tl;dr

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Re: Shutdown

Post by Isgrimnur » Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:33 am

Wiki tells me that it was 21 days covering Dec 16 - Jan 6.
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Re: Shutdown

Post by $iljanus » Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:33 am

Smoove_B wrote:No big. The 533 members of Congress still get their paychecks during the shutdown. I am nearly certain revolutions have been started over less and those fuckers should be ashamed of themselves for allowing this to happen.

Double EDIT: And hey, the Farm Bill extension didn't pass either. Food stamps...still good. WIC....not so much.
You know, I understand why the folks in Congress are getting paid but it seems like they will be also paid on time which is a crock of shit since my wife who is exempt and is handling quite a few complicated patient cases currently will not be paid till this is all said and done. She's a pediatric oncologist. Of course our bills are not being temporarily furloughed. And I'm not exempted this shutdown unlike the 96-97 one. The only upshot of that is that I'll have time to put together the new computer with the parts I bought in the early Summer. But I'd rather be doing the experiments that needed doing in my lab.

Utter bullshit.
tl;dr

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Re: Shutdown

Post by Zaxxon » Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:42 am

Yeah, the pay thing is enraging. Since an actual government shutdown is something that could never be allowed to occur, it would be nice if folks in the media reported on what's really happening a little more clearly. A small portion of government-run entities that are deemed non-essential are not operating, while Congress, the military, the NSA, the VA, the postal service, State, the Patent office, parts of the FDA, parts of Labor, SSO, Medicaid, air traffic, Homeland including TSA, much of the IRS, and most other stuff is still running.

If it continues long enough, much of that will close down, but not all of it. And it's highly unlikely it'll continue that long. But OMG drama!

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Re: Shutdown

Post by Jaymann » Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:45 am

Jag wrote:So is there any upside to a shutdown? Does it make people think that maybe we shouldn't be so reliant on the Federal Government? Obviously emergency services are important, but maybe Government needs a shakedown.

I really don't know much about the Shutdown and I think I'm fairly educated. I am sure most Americans don't really understand it either.
The worst impact is economic - about .2% of the GDP lost per week of madness. The economy is too fragile to handle that. These A-holes could drive the country into another recession.
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Re: Shutdown

Post by Fireball » Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:53 am

pr0ner wrote:
Jag wrote:So is there any upside to a shutdown? Does it make people think that maybe we shouldn't be so reliant on the Federal Government? Obviously emergency services are important, but maybe Government needs a shakedown.

I really don't know much about the Shutdown and I think I'm fairly educated. I am sure most Americans don't really understand it either.
Some people suggest that the shutdown could delay the next debt ceiling debate (which hits in two weeks!).
Unlikely. While shutdowns are disruptive, and public services are impacted, too much of the infrastructure of the government can't be shutdown without terrible longterm consequences, so it keeps running (just not paid for until the government starts back up). Thus, shutdowns don't save much money. In fact, outside of payroll costs, this government shutdown will likely cost us $150,000,000 *more* per day than operating the government would normally cost.
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Re: Shutdown

Post by LawBeefaroni » Tue Oct 01, 2013 10:13 am

Zaxxon wrote:Yeah, the pay thing is enraging. Since an actual government shutdown is something that could never be allowed to occur, it would be nice if folks in the media reported on what's really happening a little more clearly. A small portion of government-run entities that are deemed non-essential are not operating, while Congress, the military, the NSA, the VA, the postal service, State, the Patent office, parts of the FDA, parts of Labor, SSO, Medicaid, air traffic, Homeland including TSA, much of the IRS, and most other stuff is still running.
FWIW, the USPS receives no federal tax dollars despite complete congressional oversight. Talk about a clusterfuck. Congress runs all your finances but doesn't give you any money.

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Re: Shutdown

Post by Zaxxon » Tue Oct 01, 2013 10:24 am

LawBeefaroni wrote:FWIW, the USPS receives no federal tax dollars despite complete congressional oversight. Talk about a clusterfuck. Congress runs all your finances but doesn't give you any money.
True; good catch. In any event, OMG THE GUBMENT SHUT DOWN is still a hugely inaccurate headline.

So, what's the over/under on the passage of a funding bill? Certainly prior to the next manufactured crisis over the debt ceiling later this month, no?

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Re: Shutdown

Post by Carpet_pissr » Tue Oct 01, 2013 10:27 am

Jaymann wrote:
Jag wrote:So is there any upside to a shutdown? Does it make people think that maybe we shouldn't be so reliant on the Federal Government? Obviously emergency services are important, but maybe Government needs a shakedown.

I really don't know much about the Shutdown and I think I'm fairly educated. I am sure most Americans don't really understand it either.
The worst impact is economic - about .2% of the GDP lost per week of madness. The economy is too fragile to handle that. These A-holes could drive the country into another recession.
I don't think they care. See: debt ceiling fiasco

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Re: Shutdown

Post by Carpet_pissr » Tue Oct 01, 2013 10:31 am

Jaymann wrote:
Jag wrote:So is there any upside to a shutdown? Does it make people think that maybe we shouldn't be so reliant on the Federal Government? Obviously emergency services are important, but maybe Government needs a shakedown.

I really don't know much about the Shutdown and I think I'm fairly educated. I am sure most Americans don't really understand it either.
The worst impact is economic - about .2% of the GDP lost per week of madness. The economy is too fragile to handle that. These A-holes could drive the country into another recession.
I don't think they care. See: debt ceiling fiasco, sequestration, fiscal cliff, etc.

i.e. just based on past behavior, Congress, as a body, seems reckless as hell IMO when it comes to such things, I assume because they are all so caught up in their little partisan, political in-fighting bubbles that they can't/don't or won't look at the bigger consequence of their action/inaction.

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Re: Shutdown

Post by stessier » Tue Oct 01, 2013 10:36 am

Carpet_pissr wrote:i.e. just based on past behavior, Congress, as a body, seems reckless as hell IMO when it comes to such things, I assume because they are all so caught up in their little partisan, political in-fighting bubbles that they can't/don't or won't look at the bigger consequence of their action/inaction.
I'm not so sure. I believe it is more likely they see it and believe it is creating pressure on the other side and giving them leverage. It's not that they don't care, it's that they think the short term pain will provide a longer term benefit. (Note: I don't agree, but that doesn't mean it doesn't make sense from their point of view.)
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Re: Shutdown

Post by Markstrink » Tue Oct 01, 2013 10:37 am

I was afraid to come in to thread bu pleasantly surprised to see we all pretty much agree this is a ridculous situation.

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Re: Shutdown

Post by Octavious » Tue Oct 01, 2013 10:54 am

Carpet_pissr wrote:Yargh. And I have a family trip planned to Philadelphia later this month (which means basically all the cool, historical shit to see there will be closed). Let's hope they can get something cobbled together sooner than the last time this happened (think it was 18 days before).
I was going to go last weekend and pushed it to this weekend. Glad you mentioned that as I totally didn't even think about it. Guess I'll have to figure out something else to do this weekend. FYI I see plenty of people around blaming the Dems for not conceding anything. I have to resist hitting them with something. :grund:
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Re: Shutdown

Post by Zarathud » Tue Oct 01, 2013 11:06 am

Redfive wrote:Republicans are not in control so not sure how they are going to govern.

They control the House and are trying to achieve something which has been rejected over a hundered times by now. They don't have enough leverage, but they refuse to concede that Congress passed Obamacare and all sorts of other laws that must be paid for.

[quote="Redfive" Budgets were passed during the Bush years.[/quote]
Only at the last minute when Republicans controlled Congress -- the GOP has become habitually unable to pass a budget without drama. I watch the sausage grinder of budget legislation every year to check how it impacts the tax law. I've been complaining about this here since 2004, I think.

Republicans have been planning to use budget crises to dismantle government and "starve the beast" since the 1980s. This train wreck is not new, it's been irresponsible Republican policy for decades. They just couldn't do it to a President from their own party.

Republicans elected by the Tea Party for the purpose of shutting down the government admit this is their plan. I can only conclude that the 36% who blame the Democrats aren't paying attention or are delusional.
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Re: Shutdown

Post by naednek » Tue Oct 01, 2013 11:17 am

I'm a registered republican, but lately been leaning left, I still think there's plenty wrong with democrats, but the republican party is quickly moving away from my core values. I'm thinking of changing parties, but I'm not sure if I want to side with the demos or go independent.
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Re: Shutdown

Post by Rip » Tue Oct 01, 2013 11:18 am

I blame them all but feel free to be mad at the Republicans and give Democrats a pass because while they control everything but the house they can't get jack squat done and screw up pretty much every crisis that doesn't give them some lucky out.

Meanwhile Republicans are raising wads of cash and the DNC is broke. Of course the DNC doesn't really need to do much since the media will do much of their work carrying the water.
There's another budget crisis in Washington, and it's unfolding inside the Democratic party. The Democratic National Committee remains so deeply in the hole from spending in the last election that it is struggling to pay its own vendors.
It is a highly unusual state of affairs for a national party -- especially one that can deploy the President as its fundraiser-in-chief -- and it speaks to the quiet but serious organizational problems the party has yet to address since the last election, obscured in part by the much messier spectacle of GOP infighting.
The Democrats' numbers speak for themselves: Through August, 10 months after helping President Obama secure a second term, the DNC owed its various creditors a total of $18.1 million, compared to the $12.5 million cash cushion the Republican National Committee is holding.
http://finance.fortune.cnn.com/2013/09/ ... bt-crisis/

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Re: Shutdown

Post by El Guapo » Tue Oct 01, 2013 11:20 am

Rip wrote:I blame them all but feel free to be mad at the Republicans and give Democrats a pass because while they control everything but the house they can't get jack squat done and screw up pretty much every crisis that doesn't give them some lucky out.
You realize that constitutionally the democrats can't do anything without the House's consent, right? So it doesn't matter how much of the rest of the government they control if the House insists on not doing anything, right?

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Re: Shutdown

Post by LawBeefaroni » Tue Oct 01, 2013 11:25 am

naednek wrote:I'm a registered republican, but lately been leaning left, I still think there's plenty wrong with democrats, but the republican party is quickly moving away from my core values. I'm thinking of changing parties, but I'm not sure if I want to side with the demos or go independent.
Go unaffiliated. The reason we have this problem is because people think they only have two choices come election time.



Rip wrote: Meanwhile Republicans are raising wads of cash and the DNC is broke.
I guess that makes the Democrats more American?
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