Shutdown

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pr0ner
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Re: Shutdown

Post by pr0ner »

El Guapo wrote: Tue Feb 06, 2018 4:57 pm
pr0ner wrote: Tue Feb 06, 2018 4:54 pm It's pretty bad when a member of Trump's own party, Barbara Comstock, tells him a shutdown is a bad idea and he just shot her down.
In Trump's defense, she was a woman talking in his vicinity.
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Re: Shutdown

Post by Kraken »

...because a government shutdown is just the thing to stabilize the stock market, amiright?
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Re: Shutdown

Post by Pyperkub »

Pyperkub wrote: Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:42 pm Deal Done. For now:
The Senate voted 81-18 to move forward on a bill to fund the government through Feb. 8 after Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) and Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer (D-N.Y.) agreed to end the shutdown and continue to negotiate on immigration and spending matters. If a broader deal is not reached by Feb. 8, the Senate would take up legislation to protect hundreds of thousands of young undocumented immigrants who are losing legal protections, as long as the government remains open.
I agree with YK in that this isn't the hill to die on with this exception: The GOP has been trying to do everything with zero input from Democrats and Democratic states. Everything is expected to be passed via reconciliation only, or shelved. This is no way to govern (and it wasn't how Obama governed - there was plenty of GOP input accepted to bills passed, despite the GOP not actually voting for the legislation). In many ways, I think Trump is right that we may need to bring some form of earmarks back - the lack of that grease is a part of why the wheels aren't moving (though in giving Trump credit, it's also something I've been saying for years).
So yeah, how's that promised vote coming McConnel/Ryan? From the deal
If a broader deal is not reached by Feb. 8, the Senate would take up legislation to protect hundreds of thousands of young undocumented immigrants who are losing legal protections, as long as the government remains open...

...Democrats had been deeply skeptical of McConnell’s commitment, but indicated after a party strategizing session late Monday morning that they’re willing to trust the majority leader.

“I’m encouraged by commitments Leader McConnell has made,” Sen. Chris Coons (D-Del.) said, emerging from the meeting. “I’m looking forward to the vote and I think it will be important that we take a step forward.”...

...Democrats pushed back, saying they extracted a promise from McConnell to take up immigration on the Senate floor that they would not have secured without the showdown.

"This is the first time in history that under Republican control, that we’re gonna take up this issue on the floor," Sen. Brian Schatz (D-Hawaii). "The only other time we’ve taken up immigration is under Democratic leadership. So there’s no way Leader McConnell would’ve done this had we not stood firm."
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Re: Shutdown

Post by Moliere »

Rand Paul's Government Shutdown Prevention Act of 2018
‘‘SEC. 1311. CONTINUING APPROPRIATIONS.

‘‘(a)(1) If any appropriation measure for a fiscal year is not enacted before the beginning of such fiscal year or a joint resolution making continuing appropriations is not in effect, there are appropriated such sums as may be necessary to continue any program, project, or activity for which funds were provided in the preceding fiscal year—

‘‘(A) in the corresponding appropriation Act for such preceding fiscal year; or

‘‘(B) if the corresponding appropriation bill for such preceding fiscal year did not become law, then in a joint resolution making continuing appropriations for such preceding fiscal year.

‘‘(2)(A) Appropriations and funds made available, and authority granted, for a program, project, or activity for any fiscal year pursuant to this section shall be at a rate of operations not in excess of the lower of—

‘‘(i) 99 percent of the rate of operations provided for in the regular appropriation Act providing for such program, project, or activity for the preceding fiscal year;
tl;dr
The government runs at 99% capacity instead of shutting down.
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Re: Shutdown

Post by Fitzy »

House passes CR, which contains things Dems don't like, but is a starting point and at least they are doing something.

Senate leaders say they are close to a longer term deal. They can take what the house did and put their own spin on it for a two year deal.

Pelosi, one fucking day before the next shutdown, hold on now, let's just shut the whole thing down. Probably pay walled. (also a new story about the Senate agreeing to a deal. I didn't link to the wrong one! The Pelosi stuff is in there someplace.)

It's seriously past time to vote the whole damn lot of them out. :grund:
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Re: Shutdown

Post by GreenGoo »

Fitzy wrote: Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:49 pm
It's seriously past time to vote the whole damn lot of them out. :grund:
What you need is an outsider, someone with proven experience and success. Maybe a billionaire business man.
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Re: Shutdown

Post by El Guapo »

Fitzy wrote: Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:49 pm House passes CR, which contains things Dems don't like, but is a starting point and at least they are doing something.

Senate leaders say they are close to a longer term deal. They can take what the house did and put their own spin on it for a two year deal.

Pelosi, one fucking day before the next shutdown, hold on now, let's just shut the whole thing down. Probably pay walled. (also a new story about the Senate agreeing to a deal. I didn't link to the wrong one! The Pelosi stuff is in there someplace.)

It's seriously past time to vote the whole damn lot of them out. :grund:
The Senate seems to be closing in on a two-year budget / spending deal. However, said deal does not address DACA / immigration. McConnell, as part of the last extension deal (following the shutdown), said he would promise a debate / vote on DACA. Pelosi's saying that she wants the same deal from Ryan, or else she won't support the deal.

Of course, what Pelosi and the House Democrats think mostly doesn't matter, as long as the GOP can keep its caucus in line (which is not a 100% given, since the Freedom Caucus doesn't like all the additional non-military spending that would likely be part of any budget deal). But if Ryan wants Pelosi and the Democratic caucus to bail him out, in the event that the Freedom Caucus doesn't get in line, he's going to have to give them some DACA / immigration concessions in return.
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Re: Shutdown

Post by Fitzy »

GreenGoo wrote: Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:09 pm
Fitzy wrote: Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:49 pm
It's seriously past time to vote the whole damn lot of them out. :grund:
What you need is an outsider, someone with proven experience and success. Maybe a billionaire business man.
Damn. That just scared me into reconsidering my wipe them all out theory. Ouch. :oops:
El Guapo wrote: Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:49 pm
The Senate seems to be closing in on a two-year budget / spending deal. However, said deal does not address DACA / immigration. McConnell, as part of the last extension deal (following the shutdown), said he would promise a debate / vote on DACA. Pelosi's saying that she wants the same deal from Ryan, or else she won't support the deal.

Of course, what Pelosi and the House Democrats think mostly doesn't matter, as long as the GOP can keep its caucus in line (which is not a 100% given, since the Freedom Caucus doesn't like all the additional non-military spending that would likely be part of any budget deal). But if Ryan wants Pelosi and the Democratic caucus to bail him out, in the event that the Freedom Caucus doesn't get in line, he's going to have to give them some DACA / immigration concessions in return.
This was supposed to be a bipartisan deal. Something that would piss off some on each side, but garner enough votes to pass. Unless you want the Senate to end the filibusterer permanently, there is no "bailing out Ryan". There is compromise and working together.

The Democrats are getting matching spending on the domestic budget to the military. Asking that DACA be included is an overreach in my opinion. Unless they are willing to give up something else. Are the Republicans supposed to roll over and thank the Democrats for increasing the military budget while giving in on literally everything else?

If it goes down, it will be on the Dems. Again.
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Re: Shutdown

Post by El Guapo »

Fitzy wrote: Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:00 pm
GreenGoo wrote: Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:09 pm
Fitzy wrote: Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:49 pm
It's seriously past time to vote the whole damn lot of them out. :grund:
What you need is an outsider, someone with proven experience and success. Maybe a billionaire business man.
Damn. That just scared me into reconsidering my wipe them all out theory. Ouch. :oops:
El Guapo wrote: Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:49 pm
The Senate seems to be closing in on a two-year budget / spending deal. However, said deal does not address DACA / immigration. McConnell, as part of the last extension deal (following the shutdown), said he would promise a debate / vote on DACA. Pelosi's saying that she wants the same deal from Ryan, or else she won't support the deal.

Of course, what Pelosi and the House Democrats think mostly doesn't matter, as long as the GOP can keep its caucus in line (which is not a 100% given, since the Freedom Caucus doesn't like all the additional non-military spending that would likely be part of any budget deal). But if Ryan wants Pelosi and the Democratic caucus to bail him out, in the event that the Freedom Caucus doesn't get in line, he's going to have to give them some DACA / immigration concessions in return.
This was supposed to be a bipartisan deal. Something that would piss off some on each side, but garner enough votes to pass. Unless you want the Senate to end the filibusterer permanently, there is no "bailing out Ryan". There is compromise and working together.

The Democrats are getting matching spending on the domestic budget to the military. Asking that DACA be included is an overreach in my opinion. Unless they are willing to give up something else. Are the Republicans supposed to roll over and thank the Democrats for increasing the military budget while giving in on literally everything else?

If it goes down, it will be on the Dems. Again.
First of all, it's not matching military and domestic spending. Military spending is going up by considerably more than domestic spending (but they would both be going up).

Second, on DACA - that's something that Trump and most of Republican leadership has indicated they support. So basically they are asking for concessions in exchange for doing something that they say they favor (although they're probably lying about supporting it, they say they do).

Third, all Pelosi is saying, as I understand it, is that they at least need a commitment that the House is going to address it - like what McConnell has said in the Senate.

Fourth, Pelosi's just saying what she would want in exchange for her votes. Why would it be "all on the Dems", and not on Ryan, if Ryan chooses not to meet Pelosi's request? And like I said, Pelosi only matters if the Republican majority doesn't support whatever Ryan's bill is - why is it not on them as well? And for that matter, Trump just said. "I'd love to see a shutdown" if Democrats don't meet *his* demands on immigration - perhaps it would be partly on him too?
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Re: Shutdown

Post by Remus West »

Fitzy wrote: Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:00 pm If it goes down, it will be on the Dems. Again.
Thats just bullshit. The Dems do not have the votes to entirely halt the process the way the republicans did during Obama's presidency. Anything not getting passed at the end of the day can be laid at the feet of the party with full control of all the levers, the Republicans. Just because they are too repugnant to deal with even among themselves is no reason to try blaming the Democrats.
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Re: Shutdown

Post by El Guapo »

Remus West wrote: Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:17 pm
Fitzy wrote: Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:00 pm If it goes down, it will be on the Dems. Again.
Thats just bullshit. The Dems do not have the votes to entirely halt the process the way the republicans did during Obama's presidency. Anything not getting passed at the end of the day can be laid at the feet of the party with full control of all the levers, the Republicans. Just because they are too repugnant to deal with even among themselves is no reason to try blaming the Democrats.
Sort of. They have enough votes in the Senate to halt the process as long as the filibuster remains in place (although, since they are short of a majority, they have less power than Republicans do during most of Obama's presidency). Though Pelosi can't do squat as long as Republicans remain unified.

That said, putting it all on the Democrats is silly.
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Re: Shutdown

Post by Fitzy »

I'm sorry, but the behavior of both parties disgusts me. The Democrats, being in the minority get more of my disgust because they are asking for more than they should be.

The budget deal looks like a great deal for the Dems, given they are in the minority. Yep, it looks like I was wrong about the equal spending, though I'm not sure about where the disaster spending is falling. I'd call it fair not to include in either side.

It's still pretty close to being equitable considering the Dems are the minority. In fact, I'd call it the most perfect example of a bipartisan bill I've seen in years. Everyone hates it! It has to be perfect.

After years of watching the Repubs demanding everything and the kitchen sink, I'm disgusted to see the Dems doing the same. They got a good deal. Then the day before the whole thing goes up. After the House vote, Pelosi throws a wrench in it? And that's supposed to be the Repubs fault? Sorry, I'm willing to concede there is plenty of blame to go around, but ultimately the last person holding the potato gets burned. That was easily Trump after his love of the shutdown. Then along comes Pelosi. Now she has the potato and the Dems are going to get burned.

In my opinion, if it plays out that way, then they deserve to get burned.

Maybe the Repubs will come back with something equally repugnant. Again. We'll see.
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Re: Shutdown

Post by Moliere »



Don't worry, I'm sure they will come up with a way to spend more money they don't have in order to make everyone happy.
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Re: Shutdown

Post by GreenGoo »

Fitzy wrote: Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:49 pm

The budget deal looks like a great deal for the Dems, given they are in the minority.


After years of watching the Repubs demanding everything and the kitchen sink, I'm disgusted to see the Dems doing the same. They got a good deal.
Wow, how did they finagle such a great deal from the master deal maker himself. He's so good that watching him work is like watching the ballet. He turns it into an artform. Maybe he had a bad day? Was feeling particularly generous? Maybe some Reps want to survive 2018?
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Remus West
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Re: Shutdown

Post by Remus West »

Fitzy wrote: Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:49 pm I'm sorry, but the behavior of both parties disgusts me. The Democrats, being in the minority get more of my disgust because they are asking for more than they should be.

The budget deal looks like a great deal for the Dems, given they are in the minority. Yep, it looks like I was wrong about the equal spending, though I'm not sure about where the disaster spending is falling. I'd call it fair not to include in either side.

It's still pretty close to being equitable considering the Dems are the minority. In fact, I'd call it the most perfect example of a bipartisan bill I've seen in years. Everyone hates it! It has to be perfect.

After years of watching the Repubs demanding everything and the kitchen sink, I'm disgusted to see the Dems doing the same. They got a good deal. Then the day before the whole thing goes up. After the House vote, Pelosi throws a wrench in it? And that's supposed to be the Repubs fault? Sorry, I'm willing to concede there is plenty of blame to go around, but ultimately the last person holding the potato gets burned. That was easily Trump after his love of the shutdown. Then along comes Pelosi. Now she has the potato and the Dems are going to get burned.

In my opinion, if it plays out that way, then they deserve to get burned.

Maybe the Repubs will come back with something equally repugnant. Again. We'll see.
You do realize that if the Republicans put together such a great budget then Pelosi wouldn't matter at all don't you. Senate Dems already said they'd deal. House Dems can't hold the potato because there are not enough pieces to go around after the Republicans vote. Also, asking for a concession that they discuss the Dreamers and immigration hardly seems much of a demand. Its very much akin to saying "If we vote with you will you promise to actually do your job?" Because, you know, it is their job to hold those discussions. To try and find middle ground on all matters. Not just shove aside the things they don't like.
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Re: Shutdown

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Remus West wrote: Wed Feb 07, 2018 5:42 pm

You do realize that if the Republicans put together such a great budget then Pelosi wouldn't matter at all don't you. Senate Dems already said they'd deal. House Dems can't hold the potato because there are not enough pieces to go around after the Republicans vote. Also, asking for a concession that they discuss the Dreamers and immigration hardly seems much of a demand. Its very much akin to saying "If we vote with you will you promise to actually do your job?" Because, you know, it is their job to hold those discussions. To try and find middle ground on all matters. Not just shove aside the things they don't like.
I disagree, obviously. The deal put together is going to lose republican support. Therefore dem support is needed. If Pelosi holds together the Dems and the measure loses by a few votes, she should get some of the blame. A good portion. Maybe not all. I was angry when I said they should get all the blame. I’m more reasonable now.

I do agree that immigration should come up. It should have been dealt with years ago. But it wasn’t and now we are here.

I disagree that holding the budget hostage is a good idea.

I’d rather there be an alternative, easy but limited way for bills to get to the floor. This seems like the perfect situation for that.

Even without it, I don’t agree that a Government shutdown should be deployed by either side when they don’t get their way.

I didn’t think it was right when it was done over healthcare. I don’t think it’s right over DACA.
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Re: Shutdown

Post by Blackhawk »

There is nothing else the dems can use for leverage. Not a thing. They die on this hill or they surrender, and they know it.
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Re: Shutdown

Post by Kraken »

Wow, I guess deficits really don't matter anymore. The senate agreement plumps spending up by $300B, unfunded of course. With the Koch tax cut this year's deficit will flirt with $1T. Unreal.
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Re: Shutdown

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I don’t agree with Pelosi’s stand on this. I generally am not a fan.

However, I’d give her a round of applause for what she did today. Eight hours, continuous talking, on her feet, no breaks, no sitting, in heels. I don’t think I could do it and I would pay money to see Trump try it. Color me impressed.
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Re: Shutdown

Post by Max Peck »

Kraken wrote: Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:30 pm Wow, I guess deficits really don't matter anymore. The senate agreement plumps spending up by $300B, unfunded of course. With the Koch tax cut this year's deficit will flirt with $1T. Unreal.
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Re: Shutdown

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Max Peck wrote: Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:35 pm
Kraken wrote: Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:30 pm Wow, I guess deficits really don't matter anymore. The senate agreement plumps spending up by $300B, unfunded of course. With the Koch tax cut this year's deficit will flirt with $1T. Unreal.
Trumponomics: The Art of the Bankruptcy.
That $300B number came from a Reuters report. A little later WaPo said it's $500B. At this point another couple hundred billions hardly matter.
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Re: Shutdown

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The thing that gets me about this is that DACA came about because there is a group of people who are in an impossible situation. They were brought here as children. They were raised essentially American. If you adhere to the law and deport them, you're sending them back to a place they have no roots in and no knowledge of. If you let them stay, you set a precedent that you don't necessarily want to.

Congress effectively ignored this problem, and wouldn't pass a law that would grant amnesty to a portion of them while also spelling out "don't do this or this will happen." There was no good answer, but no answer was worse. Obama eventually did something, which set some extremely stringent requirements for those who took part, including giving the government all their info, basically saying "trust us, and we'll trust you." Again, not great, but it was at least some kind of solution when Congress wouldn't act. In actual function, DACA was working fine.

Suddenly, Trump decides to blow it up, creating a crisis for a large group of model citizens. There was no impetus to do this. There was no crisis that called for the ending of DACA other than Obama did it. Trump created this on his own, and is now using it as leverage to cut legal immigration by almost half, and lying while doing it. It's goddamn sickening.
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Re: Shutdown

Post by Holman »

Kraken wrote: Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:36 pm
Max Peck wrote: Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:35 pm
Kraken wrote: Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:30 pm Wow, I guess deficits really don't matter anymore. The senate agreement plumps spending up by $300B, unfunded of course. With the Koch tax cut this year's deficit will flirt with $1T. Unreal.
Trumponomics: The Art of the Bankruptcy.
That $300B number came from a Reuters report. A little later WaPo said it's $500B. At this point another couple hundred billions hardly matter.
Doesn't it include something like a $160B increase for the military?

2017's military budget was around $600 billion, so $160B is a truly massive increase.

Obviously this must be because we're in danger of being outspent by our enemies, right?
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Re: Shutdown

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Re: Shutdown

Post by El Guapo »

This bill would also throw hundreds of billions of dollars of deficit spending on top of a massive (regressive) tax cut, which may juice the economy heading into the 2018 elections, then serve (as the deficit predictably explodes) as justification for slashing safety net programs.

I'm sure that this is all going to turn out great, though.
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Re: Shutdown

Post by Kraken »

Holman wrote: Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:29 am
Kraken wrote: Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:36 pm
Max Peck wrote: Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:35 pm
Kraken wrote: Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:30 pm Wow, I guess deficits really don't matter anymore. The senate agreement plumps spending up by $300B, unfunded of course. With the Koch tax cut this year's deficit will flirt with $1T. Unreal.
Trumponomics: The Art of the Bankruptcy.
That $300B number came from a Reuters report. A little later WaPo said it's $500B. At this point another couple hundred billions hardly matter.
Doesn't it include something like a $160B increase for the military?

2017's military budget was around $600 billion, so $160B is a truly massive increase.

Obviously this must be because we're in danger of being outspent by our enemies, right?
By my reading, a large portion of that is intended to start a new nuclear arms race by reintroducing low-yield battlefield and submarine-launched nukes while staying within the cap on overall warheads. The theory is that (purely for deterrence, of course) we need weapons that we might credibly use without resorting to massive annihilation.
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Re: Shutdown

Post by naednek »

Fitzy wrote: Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:33 pm I don’t agree with Pelosi’s stand on this. I generally am not a fan.

However, I’d give her a round of applause for what she did today. Eight hours, continuous talking, on her feet, no breaks, no sitting, in heels. I don’t think I could do it and I would pay money to see Trump try it. Color me impressed.
dude that's normal for women :P
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Re: Shutdown

Post by Daehawk »

1/2 million still no power in Puerto Rico and our government shuts down fighting over trillions of bucks. Rome is burning and I hear a fiddle in Washington. (Yes I know thats not a real fact)
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Re: Shutdown

Post by Pyperkub »

Daehawk wrote: Thu Feb 08, 2018 3:03 pm 1/2 million still no power in Puerto Rico and our government shuts down fighting over trillions of bucks. Rome is burning and I hear a fiddle in Washington. (Yes I know thats not a real fact)
didn't you get the memo? Brown people don't count.
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Re: Shutdown

Post by noxiousdog »

Pyperkub wrote: Thu Feb 08, 2018 5:01 pm
Daehawk wrote: Thu Feb 08, 2018 3:03 pm 1/2 million still no power in Puerto Rico and our government shuts down fighting over trillions of bucks. Rome is burning and I hear a fiddle in Washington. (Yes I know thats not a real fact)
didn't you get the memo? Brown people don't count.

There's way more working here than that. America was extremely supportive of New Orleans and Katrina and that was largely considered a minority problem.
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Re: Shutdown

Post by Pyperkub »

noxiousdog wrote: Thu Feb 08, 2018 6:01 pm
Pyperkub wrote: Thu Feb 08, 2018 5:01 pm
Daehawk wrote: Thu Feb 08, 2018 3:03 pm 1/2 million still no power in Puerto Rico and our government shuts down fighting over trillions of bucks. Rome is burning and I hear a fiddle in Washington. (Yes I know thats not a real fact)
didn't you get the memo? Brown people don't count.

There's way more working here than that. America was extremely supportive of New Orleans and Katrina and that was largely considered a minority problem.

Ah yes, you are correct. I should have clarified it - shithole territories filled with brown people...

New Orleans and Katrina money did go a lot more into tourist areas. Here's an article on the Ninth Ward from this year:
Eleven years after Hurricane Katrina, abandoned, flood-damaged homes with shattered windows, buckled walls and crumbling rooftops can still be found throughout New Orleans’ 9th Ward.

The blighted houses are constant reminders of the storm that claimed nearly 2,000 lives. And they’re an eyesore to residents of the predominantly African-American neighborhood near the heart of the historic French Quarter.
And now, long after these fetid structures were abandoned, they’re threatening the health of nearby residents, with disease-carrying vermin that have taken up residence and air that spreads toxic mold, mildew and the stink of decay.
Last edited by Pyperkub on Thu Feb 08, 2018 6:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Shutdown

Post by Zaxxon »

... who can't vote.
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Re: Shutdown

Post by msteelers »

Daehawk wrote: Thu Feb 08, 2018 3:03 pm 1/2 million still no power in Puerto Rico and our government shuts down fighting over trillions of bucks. Rome is burning and I hear a fiddle in Washington. (Yes I know thats not a real fact)
It was my understanding that the Senate version of the bill has $2 billion in relief aid for Puerto Rico and the US Virgin Islands.

Edit to add portions of an email from Florida US Senator Bill Nelson
Eds., reporters note: The just-announced Senate budget deal includes roughly $90 billion in disaster assistance to help places like Florida and Puerto Rico recover from last year’s storms. U.S. Sen. Bill Nelson (D-FL) has been calling on Senate leaders to pass a disaster assistance package for months now. Below is a list of the projects that Nelson had urged Senate leaders to include in the bill.

Here’s a comment from Nelson:

“The people of Florida and Puerto Rico are still struggling to recover from last year’s devastating storms and the disaster funding in this bill will help provide them some much-needed relief.” Nelson said. “The disaster funding in this bill will not only help provide Florida’s schools and citrus growers the help they need, it will also help Puerto Rico rebuild its power grid and avoid an even greater healthcare crisis. ”

And here’s a list of projects Nelson pushed to have included in the bill:

· $2 billion directed to help Puerto Rico and the U.S. Virgin Islands rebuild and improve their electric grids. Four months after Hurricane Maria, nearly 1/3 of the island remains without power.

· $4.9 billion in Medicaid funds for Puerto Rico and USVI. According to the government of Puerto Rico, Puerto Rico's Medicaid program costs approximately $1.6 billion per year to operate. $4.9 billion would fully fund Puerto Rico Medicaid’s program for at least two years.

· Decreasing Puerto Rico's Medicaid cost-share requirement for 2 years. The federal government matches only 55% of the cost for Puerto Rico to operate its Medicaid program. By temporarily decreasing this cost-share requirement, the federal government would be allowed to pay a greater share of the cost of Puerto Rico’s Medicaid program while it works to rebuild in the wake of Hurricane Maria.
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Re: Shutdown

Post by Daehawk »

I dont think a couple billion will touch the estimated costs involved.

LINK
Rebuilding Puerto Rico Will Cost $95 Billion, Says Island’s Governor
In Puerto Rico, Rosselló estimates it will cost $46 billion to rebuild damaged and destroyed homes, $30 billion to repair critical infrastructure, and $17.9 billion for long-term recovery.
To compare.......
Texas to rebuild from Hurricane Harvey ($150 billion to $180 billion)
total loss in Florida as a result of Hurricane Irma ($65 billion)
In comparison, the damage wrought by Hurricane Katrina was estimated at $160 billion, according to the Washington Post.
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Re: Shutdown

Post by noxiousdog »

Pyperkub wrote: Thu Feb 08, 2018 6:07 pm
noxiousdog wrote: Thu Feb 08, 2018 6:01 pm
Pyperkub wrote: Thu Feb 08, 2018 5:01 pm
Daehawk wrote: Thu Feb 08, 2018 3:03 pm 1/2 million still no power in Puerto Rico and our government shuts down fighting over trillions of bucks. Rome is burning and I hear a fiddle in Washington. (Yes I know thats not a real fact)
didn't you get the memo? Brown people don't count.

There's way more working here than that. America was extremely supportive of New Orleans and Katrina and that was largely considered a minority problem.

Ah yes, you are correct. I should have clarified it - shithole territories filled with brown people...

New Orleans and Katrina money did go a lot more into tourist areas. Here's an article on the Ninth Ward from this year:
Eleven years after Hurricane Katrina, abandoned, flood-damaged homes with shattered windows, buckled walls and crumbling rooftops can still be found throughout New Orleans’ 9th Ward.

The blighted houses are constant reminders of the storm that claimed nearly 2,000 lives. And they’re an eyesore to residents of the predominantly African-American neighborhood near the heart of the historic French Quarter.
And now, long after these fetid structures were abandoned, they’re threatening the health of nearby residents, with disease-carrying vermin that have taken up residence and air that spreads toxic mold, mildew and the stink of decay.
That's what it looked like before Katrina too.
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Re: Shutdown

Post by msteelers »

Daehawk wrote: Thu Feb 08, 2018 6:31 pm I dont think a couple billion will touch the estimated costs involved.
True, but I don't think in any of the examples you listed the federal government just waived their hands and delivered the amount of money needed right away. Hell, most of the money given out to people that suffer damage from hurricanes is done in the form of loans from the SBA. So that money goes back to the federal government. With interest.

This administration should rightly be called out for their appalling lack of effort in helping Puerto Rico recover. But at the same time we should recognize the politicians that actually are trying to do something about it. Senator Bill Nelson is one. As much as I hate to say it, that sniveling little coward Marco Rubio is another.
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Re: Shutdown

Post by Enough »

noxiousdog wrote: Thu Feb 08, 2018 6:33 pm
Pyperkub wrote: Thu Feb 08, 2018 6:07 pm
noxiousdog wrote: Thu Feb 08, 2018 6:01 pm
Pyperkub wrote: Thu Feb 08, 2018 5:01 pm
Daehawk wrote: Thu Feb 08, 2018 3:03 pm 1/2 million still no power in Puerto Rico and our government shuts down fighting over trillions of bucks. Rome is burning and I hear a fiddle in Washington. (Yes I know thats not a real fact)
didn't you get the memo? Brown people don't count.

There's way more working here than that. America was extremely supportive of New Orleans and Katrina and that was largely considered a minority problem.

Ah yes, you are correct. I should have clarified it - shithole territories filled with brown people...

New Orleans and Katrina money did go a lot more into tourist areas. Here's an article on the Ninth Ward from this year:
Eleven years after Hurricane Katrina, abandoned, flood-damaged homes with shattered windows, buckled walls and crumbling rooftops can still be found throughout New Orleans’ 9th Ward.

The blighted houses are constant reminders of the storm that claimed nearly 2,000 lives. And they’re an eyesore to residents of the predominantly African-American neighborhood near the heart of the historic French Quarter.
And now, long after these fetid structures were abandoned, they’re threatening the health of nearby residents, with disease-carrying vermin that have taken up residence and air that spreads toxic mold, mildew and the stink of decay.
That's what it looked like before Katrina too.
When I was in NOLA a couple of years ago I stayed one night in an Air BnB in Treme and was floored how much flood damage was still not repaired and the general state of dilapidated buildings. It turned out I was in a fringy area of Treme not known for being nice, but it was a pretty scary place to stay. When I called for a cab the next morning the first driver declined the request due to safety reasons. :shock:
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Re: Shutdown

Post by Kraken »

msteelers wrote: Thu Feb 08, 2018 7:13 pm
Daehawk wrote: Thu Feb 08, 2018 6:31 pm I dont think a couple billion will touch the estimated costs involved.
True, but I don't think in any of the examples you listed the federal government just waived their hands and delivered the amount of money needed right away. Hell, most of the money given out to people that suffer damage from hurricanes is done in the form of loans from the SBA. So that money goes back to the federal government. With interest.

This administration should rightly be called out for their appalling lack of effort in helping Puerto Rico recover. But at the same time we should recognize the politicians that actually are trying to do something about it. Senator Bill Nelson is one. As much as I hate to say it, that sniveling little coward Marco Rubio is another.
Elon Musk can do it for well under $2B. Unless that US aid comes with coal-stained strings...Musk powered 50,000 homes in South Australia (250 MW) for $800M, and his decentralized virtual solar plant would be more hurricane-resistant than the traditional setup.
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Re: Shutdown

Post by Daehawk »

I would love to see Musk as US President. I cant even imagine all the stuff he could do.
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Re: Shutdown

Post by Kraken »

Daehawk wrote: Thu Feb 08, 2018 8:06 pm I would love to see Musk as US President. I cant even imagine all the stuff he could do.
He's an immigrant. You know, from one of those shithole countries.
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