Shutdown

[malchior]

My favorite theory about the potential Syria flip flop is that people close to him pointed out that he eroded his support in the Senate with certain Republicans. And they are the only real protection he has left. But yeah it appears for now that getting 'the wall' and declaring victory are all he seeks. It'd be great if someone could convince him that a compromise measure would do that but he still answers to that rabid base of his. This is a perfect storm of GOP stupidity once again coming home to roost.

[pr0ner]

Didn't Pelosi already pass bills to keep everything but DHS open through the end of the FY, and DHS through Feb. 8? Is she now going to introduce more bills to hit all the closed agencies individually?

That was one of their offers to the WH. They didn't actually pass that I believe. Instead, the plan as laid out would break out the last Republican house passed CR by agency and pass them one by one. They'd just leave out DHS - which had 'the wall' funding.

Well, HR 21, which would keep all the other agencies open through the FY, and HJ Res 1, which deals with DHS through Feb. 8, passed the House on the 3rd and are sitting in the Senate to die. I'm not sure what else you're talking about that Pelosi wants to do right now.

Ok so they did pass it. Wasn't sure. She announced this new plan over the weekend. I'm looking for a story but it was all over the news this morning. I assure the Republican representative got very cranky and couldn't stand on firm ground either way about it. That probably means the GOP think tanks haven't figured out a good response strategy yet.

Edit: Found a Washington Times piece about it.

Ah, cool, thanks.

[GreenGoo]

Kraken has often referred to the Madman Theory, which as he explained was a concept applied to Nixon's foreign policy. I believe the theory is that if the enemy thinks you're crazy enough to pull the trigger, they'll think twice before trying to bluff you. Or something.

I like to think that drumpf's tenure will result in a new Madman theory, but in this case it will be about domestic policy, the economy, and just anything he randomly sees on television, including important topics such as the ratings of The Apprentice, or whether Heidi Klum is still a 10 or not. Madman theory will take on a new meaning, and it will simply be "he was batshit crazy without the intellect to give it any redeeming qualities".

[Smoove_B]

This is a perfect storm of GOP stupidity once again coming home to roost.

Well it's another greatest hits Monday morning on Twitter with President Trump once again declaring the Fake News an enemy of the state. But he's also just now tossing out the emergency declaration scenario for the wall. Jade Helm? Right-wing goes insane. President Trump actually suggesting he's going to declare border wall funding a national emergency and move money from the DoD to build it? What's the big deal?

[malchior]

This is a perfect storm of GOP stupidity once again coming home to roost.

Well it's another greatest hits Monday morning on Twitter with President Trump once again declaring the Fake News an enemy of the state. But he's also just now tossing out the emergency declaration scenario for the wall. Jade Helm? Right-wing goes insane. President Trump actually suggesting he's going to declare border wall funding a national emergency and move money from the DoD to build it? What's the big deal?

I'd be probably be ok with it if the Republicans just moved to 'tan suit' levels of outrage. Amirite?!?

[$iljanus]

This is a perfect storm of GOP stupidity once again coming home to roost.

Well it's another greatest hits Monday morning on Twitter with President Trump once again declaring the Fake News an enemy of the state. But he's also just now tossing out the emergency declaration scenario for the wall. Jade Helm? Right-wing goes insane. President Trump actually suggesting he's going to declare border wall funding a national emergency and move money from the DoD to build it? What's the big deal?

Well for starters it's not a black Kenyan Muslim calling the shots so that buys a lot of good will with the GOP.

[Chaz]

If he does the emergency thing and pulls DoD money to build it, I'm sure the rest of the right wing will be outraged because they're always saying how our military is horribly under-funded and any attempt to reduce the defense budget is akin to shooting our troops yourself. Removing $5 billion to build a stretch of wall seems like it'd be super bad, right?

It's also constantly amazing that the Senate Majority Leader as a position has the ability to dictate national policy to such a huge extent. There's a bill that would re-open the government right now, that would likely pass with a veto-proof majority, yet it'll never even be brought up for a vote because Mitch McConnell says so.

[LordMortis]

... the Party of Lincoln ... Confederate flag loving hearts.

Their just ashamed to admit it.

I don't engage trolls but I don't think they're ashamed. They're bullies. They're domestic abuse households. they're broken to their core. To them it's about feeling righteous and claiming victory, no matter the disconnect from reality. The idea that there is a proud Republican heritage that coincides with the confederate battle flag pretty much says it all. I don't think, as a collective, they're herd is capable of shame.

[LawBeefaroni]

I was talking with a family member who works for Social Security. Apparently another messed up part of this shutdown is about to come up this week...

The payroll for Social Security is processed by employees at the Department of the Interior, currently under shutdown. The DoI payroll employees have been told they are essential and have to show up to work in order to cut payroll checks for other departments including Social Security. Apparently, there is some concern that the payroll people won't appreciate the irony of having to show up without pay to pay other federal employees. No one is certain what will happen, but many of employees at the Social Security office are currently making plans on how to live without getting paid this Friday. I'm curious how many other agencies also receive their payroll through DoI but can't find anything in detail.

I was speaking with a guy who is an FBI agent doing domestic terrorism work. He's non-essential (?) but is still working a bit with no paycheck. He said there's a lot of tension due to the situation where some have to work and others dont. They will all get paid once the shut down ends but some will basically get paid for a vacation while others will have worked.

He also said that the TSA situation is a joke. These are largely workers living paycheck to paycheck. They'll call in sick to drive Uber because they have kids to feed and bills to pay.

[Paingod]

He also said that the TSA situation is a joke. These are largely workers living paycheck to paycheck. They'll call in sick to drive Uber because they have kids to feed and bills to pay.

I always assumed (without checking) that TSA agents were pretty much just glorified mall security guards. Having worked security, I know all it takes is a clean background check and a warm body that can be trained to perform basic tasks.

If I was working security and my boss told me I had to come in for no pay, I'd be driving an Uber too.

The longer the shutdown goes, the more basic workers will bleed out of the system and make things harder to recover from. Go team GOP!

[Skinypupy]

The longer the shutdown goes, the more basic workers will bleed out of the system and make things harder to recover from.

I've pretty much assumed that is the intent of this whole exercise and, frankly, Trump's entire administration.

Cripple government to the point where it can't function, then use that as an excuse to either eliminate the departments (i.e. anything to do with climate research or social welfare), or farm the work out to Trump cronies in the private sector for "better" results (i.e. for profit, or things only the wealthy can afford to access).

[malchior]

One of the upsides of low unemployment. People have options when their employer treats them terribly.

[Paingod]

The longer the shutdown goes, the more basic workers will bleed out of the system and make things harder to recover from.

I've pretty much assumed that is the intent of this whole exercise and, frankly, Trump's entire administration.

I think this is how he'd run his own businesses, too. It explains the repeated bankruptcy.

So glad we gave him the keys to the castle and let him renovate the throne into a port-a-potty.

[Zarathud]

Trump is desperate to fix the national emergency he created and cannot negotiate his way out of.

Failed President.

[Pyperkub]

One of the upsides of low unemployment. People have options when their employer treats them terribly.

There are a lot of things to weigh - pensions/retirement benefits, especially with seniority for one, for those who may be thinking it.

[Kraken]

Kraken has often referred to the Madman Theory, which as he explained was a concept applied to Nixon's foreign policy. I believe the theory is that if the enemy thinks you're crazy enough to pull the trigger, they'll think twice before trying to bluff you. Or something.

I like to think that drumpf's tenure will result in a new Madman theory, but in this case it will be about domestic policy, the economy, and just anything he randomly sees on television, including important topics such as the ratings of The Apprentice, or whether Heidi Klum is still a 10 or not. Madman theory will take on a new meaning, and it will simply be "he was batshit crazy without the intellect to give it any redeeming qualities".

Pretty sure you'd have to be sane to employ the Madman Theory. We're gonna need a different name for a madman trying to convince adversaries that he can be reasonable.

[Octavious]

Who pays for the F'N youtube ads he has been placing? Nothing makes me feel better than seeing racist ads from Trump on the top of my youtube page.

[stessier]

Who pays for the F'N youtube ads he has been placing? Nothing makes me feel better than seeing racist ads from Trump on the top of my youtube page.

I don't see ads, but those are almost certainly not from Trump. They may support his message, but I really doubt he's paying for youtube ads.

[Skinypupy]

Who pays for the F'N youtube ads he has been placing? Nothing makes me feel better than seeing racist ads from Trump on the top of my youtube page.

Usually says who is paying for it either in text during the ad (at the bottom), or at the very end (i.e. "this ad sponsored by Citizens for Tiny Dicked Orange Gods, LTD")

[Octavious]

Who pays for the F'N youtube ads he has been placing? Nothing makes me feel better than seeing racist ads from Trump on the top of my youtube page.

I don't see ads, but those are almost certainly not from Trump. They may support his message, but I really doubt he's paying for youtube ads.

Hmm it's gone now, but for two days it was right on the top of youtube. I was too annoyed to actually open it and look at the actual details. It's not the first time I've seen Trump BS being spammed on Youtube.

[stessier]

Who pays for the F'N youtube ads he has been placing? Nothing makes me feel better than seeing racist ads from Trump on the top of my youtube page.

I don't see ads, but those are almost certainly not from Trump. They may support his message, but I really doubt he's paying for youtube ads.

Hmm it's gone now, but for two days it was right on the top of youtube. I was too annoyed to actually open it and look at the actual details. It's not the first time I've seen Trump BS being spammed on Youtube.

Those ads are person specific. The algorithm must like you. I haven't seen a political ad since the election. I've seen a few propaganda videos promoted, but those are pretty easy to stop and flag as "unwanted" or whatever and they stop showing up.

[Octavious]

I do open his twitter pretty much every morning. So that might have something to do with it. Know your enemy and all that. I really should just dig my head into the sand and wait for this to all pass by. I can't f'n wait for the speech tomorrow. I'd make a drinking game out of it, but I don't want to die.

[Isgrimnur]

Pander

The Internal Revenue Service plans to pay tax refunds in the coming weeks, administration officials say, after the White House decided Monday it was legally permissible to process tax returns during a government shutdown.

The decision, announced by White House Office of Management and Budget acting director Russell Vought, reverses past IRS policy, which had prohibited tax refunds from being paid while much of the agency’s staff was sent home during a shutdown.

But OMB determined on Monday that paying tax refunds was a permissible practice and would be allowed to proceed, according to a different senior OMB official.

OMB determined that paying tax refunds was an “indefinite appropriation,” and not something that needed annual congressional approval.

[malchior]

What are the odds that he'll declare a national emergency during his speech tomorrow night?

[Pyperkub]

Democrats in the Senate to force McConnell to stop shielding Trump from the crisis of his own making?

Sections

The Washington Post
Democracy Dies in Darkness

Accessibility for screenreader

The Plum Line Opinion
Is there a way to break Trump’s will? One Democrat has an idea.

(Jim Watson/AFP)
By Greg Sargent
Opinion writer
January 7 at 9:47 AM

President Trump would almost certainly not be able to continue shutting down the government over his megalomaniacal border wall obsession if it weren’t for Mitch McConnell. The Senate majority leader is refusing a Senate vote on the bills that House Democrats have passed funding the government — shielding Trump from possibly having to veto a bipartisan measure reopening it, which would be politically disastrous for him.

Now one Democrat is pushing a plan to force McConnell’s hand. It’s a good one.

Sen. Chris Van Hollen (D-Md.) tweeted over the weekend that Senate Democrats should block any and all measures in the Senate that are unrelated to funding the government until the Senate votes on reopening it. Since then, several progressive groups and a handful of Democratic senators have endorsed the strategy.

In an interview with me, Van Hollen elaborated on the idea and shed some light on how it might gain continued momentum and, possibly, even become a party-wide strategy.

“The Senate should make its first order of business a vote on the House bills to reopen the government,” Van Hollen told me, in a reference to the package House Democrats passed last week to fund the government without Trump’s wall money attached.

“McConnell and Senate Republicans have to stop contracting out their votes to Donald Trump,” Van Hollen continued. “They have an important constitutional role, and we should not have business-as-usual in the Senate until we open the entire federal government.”

To do this, Van Hollen noted, Democrats should vote against proceeding to debate on any measures unrelated to funding the government, and they should coalesce behind the idea as a caucus-wide strategy.

“We should insist that our focus be on reopening the government,” Van Hollen said. “Hundreds of thousands of people are working without pay. Hundreds of thousands more are being furloughed. Lots of small businesses that contract with the federal government are hurting. And you’ve got all the services being denied to the American people. That will continue to grow.”

Yup. The thing to remember is that it currently isn't Trump who has shutdown the Government, it's McConnell who has shut down the government in order to protect Trump.

[malchior]

Pander

The Internal Revenue Service plans to pay tax refunds in the coming weeks, administration officials say, after the White House decided Monday it was legally permissible to process tax returns during a government shutdown.

The decision, announced by White House Office of Management and Budget acting director Russell Vought, reverses past IRS policy, which had prohibited tax refunds from being paid while much of the agency’s staff was sent home during a shutdown.

But OMB determined on Monday that paying tax refunds was a permissible practice and would be allowed to proceed, according to a different senior OMB official.

OMB determined that paying tax refunds was an “indefinite appropriation,” and not something that needed annual congressional approval.

Funny how fast you can turn on a dime when your head of the OMB is also the Acting Chief of Staff. This is turning into a flat out street fight and clearly a response to Pelosi's legislative strategy.

Yup. The thing to remember is that it currently isn't Trump who has shutdown the Government, it's McConnell who has shut down the government in order to protect Trump.

There is another way to look at it. McConnell might not be shielding him so much as letting him twist in the wind. McConnell isn't participating at all. The word is he is super pissed that Trump burned him on the CR. That it also sticks it to the libs is a bonus.

[hepcat]

And Trump is planning on delivering a prime time address on TV tomorrow night, outlining the humanitarian and national crisis on our southern border.

In other words, he's feeling the heat and he's going to go on live TV and lie his ass off in order to fire up his base, hoping that they'll be able to convince their less reasonable friends and relatives that we are indeed in the midst of a sudden invasion that no one can prove.

I'm betting Fox will blow him and real journalists will blow him up.

[Skinypupy]

What are the odds that he'll declare a national emergency during his speech tomorrow night?

There.

Is.

No.

Crisis.

The number of American's who are willing to give up everything simply due to the "OOGA BOOGA BROWN PEOPLE ARE COMING TO KILL YOU" messaging is truly astounding to me.

[Isgrimnur]

A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals, and you know it.

[Pyperkub]

The irony of it is that the first bill (S1) that McConnell wants to vote on can easily be characterized as a Middle East Aid package.

In other words, he wants to spend US dollars helping foreigners instead of actually paying US workers the money they have already earned, in addition to actually doing his job of Governing.

[malchior]

There is breaking news across the cable networks now that Pence said that WH legal counsel is looking at the legality of declaring a national emergency. I think it is safe to say it is happening. This Trump-created crisis could spiral quickly out of control.

[Smoove_B]

In other words, he's feeling the heat and he's going to go on live TV and lie his ass off in order to fire up his base, hoping that they'll be able to convince their less reasonable friends and relatives that we are indeed in the midst of a sudden invasion that no one can prove.

Maybe I'm giving him more credit than he deserves, but I'm seeing this whole wall thing now as a final desperate play to get support from his core. Why? Because he knows what' Mueller is cooking and wants to make sure he has as many people as possible jumping to defend all the horrific shit that's about to come out about him, the Trump family and his administration. As if he can somehow say all the insane things he's done and been involved in were worth it because he built a wall to keep brown people from coming into America.

[Skinypupy]

There is breaking news across the cable networks now that Pence said that WH legal counsel is looking at the legality of declaring a national emergency. I think it is safe to say it is happening. This Trump-created crisis could spiral quickly out of control.

Where'd you see this? Just checked all the major outlets, and there's nothing about it.

Not doubting, I'm just not finding it.

[malchior]

I was seeing it live on tv but stories are starting to percolate into the Twitter-verse now.

[Holman]

Yeah. The suspicion is that tomorrow night's Address To the Nation has been slotted in for possible announcement of a National Emergency.

You know Trump wants it. Everything depends on whether the WH lawyers can talk him down.

Of course it will be carried live, so there's every chance that he'll go in resigned to not declaring an Emergency and then do it anyway.

[hepcat]

It will depend on what Hannity and/or Fox and Friends tell him to do.

[Pyperkub]

Yeah. The suspicion is that tomorrow night's Address To the Nation has been slotted in for possible announcement of a National Emergency.

You know Trump wants it. Everything depends on whether the WH lawyers can talk him down.

Of course it will be carried live, so there's every chance that he'll go in resigned to not declaring an Emergency and then do it anyway.

If it is carried live, every single network should have a truth meter running as a graphic overlay with a running total of the lies and misleading statements.

I'd actually refuse to carry it - I'll definitely refuse to watch it.

[$iljanus]

I wonder if The Leader will use the Presidential Alert system to declare a national emergency for maximum dramatic effect?

The networks or at least Comedy Central, the Vice Channel or C-SPAN should play Henry Rollins' Liar video at the appropriate times.

[Skinypupy]

Trump: "WE NEED A BORDER WALL IMMEDIATELY BECAUSE WE CAUGHT 4,000 TERRORISTS CROSSING THE SOUTHERN BORDER! DECLARE A STATE OF EMERGENCY!!"

Narrator: Six. It was actually six non-US citizens who were in the terrorist database.

[malchior]

Trump: "WE NEED A BORDER WALL IMMEDIATELY BECAUSE WE CAUGHT 4,000 TERRORISTS CROSSING THE SOUTHERN BORDER! DECLARE A STATE OF EMERGENCY!!"

Narrator: Six. It was actually six non-US citizens who were in the terrorist database.

BTW - my interpretation is that they were name matches and not necessarily even the actual terrorists identified on the list. The larger 4000 number were stopped at airports due to the do not fly list. Again not necessarily terrorists - name matches.