Rip wrote:I don't want them deported. I want a deal that deal with them and funds border security and the wall.
Easy compromise that the Democrats are unwilling to make so lots of Americans suffer. Lot to give up for a wall they say won't even work.
So you agree with the democrats and senate Republicans, and Trump from two days ago?
Because there have been several agreements already reached that did precisely that. Then Kelly and Miller talked him out of it because a bipartisan deal was too liberal.
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Beat me to it. That exact deal was already proposed, but it wouldn’t have allowed Trump to howl “DEMOCRATS BAD!!”, so they wouldn’t take it.
If there’s one thing Democrats and Republicans (some publicly, many others privately) agree on, it’s that the president’s negotiating style has made it much harder for the two sides to reach a deal. Trump has veered wildly from one extreme to the other—telling lawmakers in one meeting that he’d sign any DACA bill Congress sent him, then issuing a list of hard-line demands in the next. His vulgar reference to African nations, among others, as “shithole countries” while rejecting a bipartisan DACA proposal blew up the negotiations at a critical juncture.
Republicans have begged the president to tell them exactly what he’d accept in an agreement and then stick to it. But Trump hasn’t delivered. “I’m looking for something that President Trump supports, and he has not yet indicated what measure he is willing to sign,” McConnell told reporters this week, in a telling sign of the GOP’s frustration with the president’s inconsistency. “As soon as we figure out what he is for, then I would be convinced that we were not just spinning our wheels.”
Democrats have been even more frustrated, accusing the president of repeatedly backing out of commitments he makes to them in private once he hears from conservative Republicans. That occurred when Trump initially told Senator Dick Durbin of Illinois he would support the immigration deal Durbin struck with Graham and four other lawmakers only to flip his position a few hours later. And, according to Schumer, the president did it again in the final hours before the shutdown began, after the Senate minority leader said he bolstered the Democrats’ offer and put funding for Trump’s border wall on the table. “He backed off at the first sign of pressure,” Schumer complained early Saturday morning after the midnight deadline had passed.
For the shutdown to end, Trump likely has to do one of two things: Negotiate a deal with Democrats himself, stick to it, and sell it to Republicans, or get out of the way and agree to whatever congressional leaders work out.
Like I said, he's just no good at this. One hopes he'll go play golf for a few days.
Maybe it would be easier if Congress realized that they are their own branch of government that doesn’t exist at the pleasure of the President. Reach a goddamn deal, pass it, and let him deal with the fallout of a veto.
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And in banks across the world
Christians, Moslems, Hindus, Jews
And every other race, creed, colour, tint or hue
Get down on their knees and pray
The raccoon and the groundhog neatly
Make up bags of change
But the monkey in the corner
Well he's slowly drifting out of range
Should fire all of DC and get totally new blood in there. No one under 30 and no one over 50.
Ive told my wife I wish that the American people would once just refuse all taxes for a year. Take control of the country.
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I am Dyslexic of Borg, prepare to have your ass laminated.
I guess Ray Butts has ate his last pancake. http://steamcommunity.com/id/daehawk
"Has high IQ. Refuses to apply it"
Daehawk wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 6:06 pm
Should fire all of DC and get totally new blood in there. No one under 30 and no one over 50.
All members of the House are up for re-election in November, as are 34 Senators. If you are not happy with your representative's work on your behalf, I suggest you vote against them and encourage others to do the same.
Ive told my wife I wish that the American people would once just refuse all taxes for a year. Take control of the country.
You realize that all that would happen in that situation is that all expenses for that year would be paid for by the issuance of debt, and that nothing would actually change except the meaningless total of outstanding debt, right?
Wed Oct 20, 2004 1:17 am
Zarathud: The sad thing is that Barak Obama is a very intelligent and articulate person, even when you disagree with his views it's clear that he's very thoughtful. I would have loved to see Obama in a real debate.
Me: Wait 12 years, when he runs for president. :-)
And Armin Shimerman who played Quark on Deep Space 9 replied.....
The man has no lobes
And my first thought was ....brain.
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I am Dyslexic of Borg, prepare to have your ass laminated.
I guess Ray Butts has ate his last pancake. http://steamcommunity.com/id/daehawk
"Has high IQ. Refuses to apply it"
Nothing says respect for the office like wearing shitty self promoting baseball cap in the oval office.
He's a disgrace. At least he's not wearing a tan suit though.
If you scroll through the replies, there's a picture of Reagan working in the oval office. Compare the two. Now tell me how Drumpf is anything but an empty suit lying to the American people at every stage.
Note all the personal effects Reagan has around that desk. That's a man who spends a LOT of time working at that desk.
Where the fuck is that aneurysm everyone has been promising me?
Last edited by GreenGoo on Sat Jan 20, 2018 8:37 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Rip wrote:I don't want them deported. I want a deal that deal with them and funds border security and the wall.
Easy compromise that the Democrats are unwilling to make so lots of Americans suffer. Lot to give up for a wall they say won't even work.
So you agree with the democrats and senate Republicans, and Trump from two days ago?
Because there have been several agreements already reached that did precisely that. Then Kelly and Miller talked him out of it because a bipartisan deal was too liberal.
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My understanding is they didn't agree to the wall funding, only to have discussions on it.
Are the details public?
“A simple democracy is the devil’s own government.”
— Benjamin Rush --
Rip wrote:I don't want them deported. I want a deal that deal with them and funds border security and the wall.
Easy compromise that the Democrats are unwilling to make so lots of Americans suffer. Lot to give up for a wall they say won't even work.
So you agree with the democrats and senate Republicans, and Trump from two days ago?
Because there have been several agreements already reached that did precisely that. Then Kelly and Miller talked him out of it because a bipartisan deal was too liberal.
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My understanding is they didn't agree to the wall funding, only to have discussions on it.
Are the details public?
Only what talking heads repeat. I've seen that Graham and Durbin had a deal pre Trump. And repeated that on trumps desk was both their deal (pre shit house) and a separate deal between Schumer and Trump (corroborated on both sides but with different spin) with 1.6b for wall + border security + above and beyond military spending. (pre shut down) publicly Trumps spokespeople say that the 1.6 they asked for specifically last year (where schumer got his number) is just not enough and they want 20 billion. After just creating a 1.5 billion deficit, not to mention the Mexico thing.
The seeming (through the shit show) status is that Schumer in pseudo good faith has offered up multiple concessions. The Republicans did as well, and even included Daca. And at least the outlines of the deal have been there for weeks. Every time the demos move and Trump says yes. He's talks to his cabinet and Trump tweets out the moved goalposts. The republicans instead of saying Trump is altering the deal. Flip and say the dens are holding the military hostage over legislation that was already agreed upon.
So at any time over the last six months the R's could have passed cleanly and bi partisan chip AND Daca reforms but kept pulling the football. So the dems finally said fulfill your promise or we won't help. Again Trump and Republicans instead of saying no (because both are on the record for supporting but also not both programs) now are screaming That dems hate the military.
All this banks on the fact that Americans are fucking ignorant. And the media keeps facilitating.
GreenGoo wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 8:25 pm
If you scroll through the replies, there's a picture of Reagan working in the oval office. Compare the two. Now tell me how Drumpf is anything but an empty suit lying to the American people at every stage.
Note all the personal effects Reagan has around that desk. That's a man who spends a LOT of time working at that desk.
I don't know the inside details, but Reagan really didn't have the reputation of a hard worker. He was said to knock off every day at 5:00 p.m., and by his second term he had delegated almost everything away.
He did know how to stage an Oval Office photo op, however.
GreenGoo wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 8:25 pmNothing says respect for the office like wearing shitty self promoting baseball cap in the oval office.
You haven't picked up the pattern yet? When there's an impromptu appearance and he doesn't have the extended time necessary to have his handlers help fold his hair, he throws on a baseball cap.
GreenGoo wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 8:25 pmNothing says respect for the office like wearing shitty self promoting baseball cap in the oval office.
You haven't picked up the pattern yet? When there's an impromptu appearance and he doesn't have the extended time necessary to have his handlers help fold his hair, he throws on a baseball cap.
You really think he is sitting at that desk? ..hint..photoshop.
--------------------------------------------
I am Dyslexic of Borg, prepare to have your ass laminated.
I guess Ray Butts has ate his last pancake. http://steamcommunity.com/id/daehawk
"Has high IQ. Refuses to apply it"
He added, "In fact, I found out for the first time last night that the person who technically shuts the government down is me, which is kind of cool."
More of those photos in the WH during shutdown...they all seem happy and smiling.
Washington and the ones running it are disgusting and they disgust me thoroughly.
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I am Dyslexic of Borg, prepare to have your ass laminated.
I guess Ray Butts has ate his last pancake. http://steamcommunity.com/id/daehawk
"Has high IQ. Refuses to apply it"
So I haven't been paying the closest attention on this, but from what I heard, they could have gotten CHIP passed for six years for doing a short term funding bill through Feb?
I would have gone that route (if it did mean CHIP got passed, and not a Lucy football gag), and if they still felt they were in a strong position, then see about a showdown in a month.
I still think the Republicans own this, given their control of the branches of government.
How about we just stop holding the budget process hostage like this every few weeks?
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And in banks across the world
Christians, Moslems, Hindus, Jews
And every other race, creed, colour, tint or hue
Get down on their knees and pray
The raccoon and the groundhog neatly
Make up bags of change
But the monkey in the corner
Well he's slowly drifting out of range
Can we just go to Australia's system? If the government fails to pass a budget, they must resign or have a new general election. None of this blame game bullshit.
pr0ner wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 11:23 am
The House sent over year long appropriations bills months ago. McConnell won't even let them go to committee, let alone to the floor for a full vote.
As expected, the GOP seems to be winning the messaging war with the “Democrats support illegals over the military/kids”. Partly due to tribal politics, and partly because people are largely ignorant to the fact that they could have done something about this any time in the past year, and actively chose not to so they could use it as a political football today.
It’s infuriating.
When darkness veils the world, four Warriors of Light shall come.
GreenGoo wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 11:37 am
How can they possibly be winning the messaging when they control all 3 branches?
Anecdotal, but nearly every article I’ve read in the last hour makes a point of discussing - in great detail - that this could all end if only the Democrats would reach across the aisle help the GOP get those 60 votes.
Never mind the fact they can’t even get their own damn side to agree.
When darkness veils the world, four Warriors of Light shall come.
Can't own it forever, but of course Drumpf doesn't care what happens in the future. He'll be long gone. And speaking of gone, once it goes nuclear, you can't get it back.
Rip wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:12 pm
Well if you are going to own it why not?
Pissed you off when Obama did stuff like that, but it’s great now for you. We’re all hypocrites at the end of the day. Neither side in this is wearing a white hat.
At least we know what McConnell thinks regarding the chances of the GOP holding onto their majority in the Senate.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
And in banks across the world
Christians, Moslems, Hindus, Jews
And every other race, creed, colour, tint or hue
Get down on their knees and pray
The raccoon and the groundhog neatly
Make up bags of change
But the monkey in the corner
Well he's slowly drifting out of range
Rip wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:12 pm
Well if you are going to own it why not?
If Trump is such a shrewd negotiator as he claims, then getting a deal done shouldn't be this difficult.
However, Trump sucks at negotiating and like a to reneg on deals, so here we are. The Nuclear Option should not be used because Trump sucks at his job.
Please recall that there *was* a deal, that the shithole shenanigans killed. There's exactly one person to blame for this shutdown, and it's Donald J Trump. He's not only unable to negotiate a resolution, but he actively killed the one that the adults in the room had already negotiated.
Rip wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:12 pm
Well if you are going to own it why not?
If Trump is such a shrewd negotiator as he claims, then getting a deal done shouldn't be this difficult.
However, Trump sucks at negotiating and like a to reneg on deals, so here we are. The Nuclear Option should not be used because Trump sucks at his job.
Please recall that there *was* a deal, that the shithole shenanigans killed. There's exactly one person to blame for this shutdown, and it's Donald J Trump. He's not only unable to negotiate a resolution, but he actively killed the one that the adults in the room had already negotiated.
Oh, I know. That's where the whole "renegs on deals" point came from.
"Thank you for calling the White House. Unfortunately, we cannot answer your call today because congressional Democrats are holding government funding —
including funding for our troops and other national security priorities — hostage to an unrelated immigration debate. Due to this obstruction, the government is shut down. In the meantime, you can leave a comment for the president at www.whitehouse.gov/contact. We look forward to taking your calls as soon as the government re-opens."
Yep, like I said they weren't actually willing to fund the wall.
Sunday on CNN’s “State of the Union,” while discussing the government shutdown, White House budget director Mick Mulvaney said Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer (D-NY) offer on the border wall was only to “authorize” funding, not “appropriating” the money.
Mulvaney said, “The president is absolutely interested and wants to get DACA fixed but what with you’ve just read really bears a close read which is what the Senate minority leader said was to authorize $20 billion. I know it’s getting real deep down in the weeds. You can authorize left and right but it’s appropriating the money that makes the difference. He wants to authorize the wall to be built but doesn’t want to spend the money to get it built. There was money authorized in 2006 that Mr. Schumer voted for for a wall that still hasn’t been built because that money hasn’t been spent.”
