Shutdown

For discussion of religion and politics

Moderators: LawBeefaroni, $iljanus

Post Reply
User avatar
Exodor
Posts: 17196
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:10 pm
Location: Portland, OR

Re: Shutdown

Post by Exodor »

LawBeefaroni wrote: Thu Feb 14, 2019 4:36 pm Isn't this essentially the same bill from day 1 of the shutdown?
Of course not!

That bill provided $1.6B in border security funding.

This one provides $1.3B


Trump - master negotiator!

:lol:
User avatar
msteelers
Posts: 7157
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 9:30 pm
Location: Port Saint Lucie, Florida
Contact:

Re: Shutdown

Post by msteelers »

LordMortis wrote: Thu Feb 14, 2019 7:01 pm
Smoove_B wrote: Thu Feb 14, 2019 6:42 pm
YellowKing wrote: Thu Feb 14, 2019 5:29 pmI love that this party now has to deal with the monster they've been coddling.
If I'm to believe internet policy scholars, if Trump invokes an emergency, Pelosi (he calls her Nancy) will require a Y/N vote of support for this action - in both the House and the Senate. Nothing would make me happier than to have these weasels on record for supporting funds being shuffled around for a goddamn wall.
I thought her name was McGill.
:clap:
User avatar
Smoove_B
Posts: 54567
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 am
Location: Kaer Morhen

Re: Shutdown

Post by Smoove_B »

Please tell me he's really going to call a national emergency for the border wall and then get on a plane to golf in Florida this weekend.
Maybe next year, maybe no go
User avatar
Paingod
Posts: 13132
Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2010 8:58 am

Re: Shutdown

Post by Paingod »

I am loving Pelosi openly saying "Hey, if Trump can declare a border wall and the crisis he's inventing a National Emergency, then surely a Democratic President can declare Gun Violence an emergency too!"

I'm sure somewhere there's a lot of deeply red people feeling deeply red.
Black Lives Matter

2021-01-20: The first good night's sleep I had in 4 years.
User avatar
Skinypupy
Posts: 20333
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 10:12 am
Location: Utah

Re: Shutdown

Post by Skinypupy »

Smoove_B wrote: Thu Feb 14, 2019 10:21 pm Please tell me he's really going to call a national emergency for the border wall and then get on a plane to golf in Florida this weekend.
While I can't vouch for it's authenticity, it appears that's exactly what he's doing.


So #AirForceOne heading off to Florida on Friday - This was marked 'NOT REPORTABLE' & 'NOT FOR PUBLICATION OR BROADCAST'
When darkness veils the world, four Warriors of Light shall come.
User avatar
LordMortis
Posts: 70100
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:26 pm

Re: Shutdown

Post by LordMortis »

Again, can't vouch but this this the first thing that pops when you google the presidents schedule

https://factba.se/topic/calendar
7:00 PM
Official Schedule

The President and THE FIRST LADY arrive at Mar-a-Lago
Palm Beach, FL
Out-of-Town Travel Poo
User avatar
coopasonic
Posts: 20969
Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2005 11:43 pm
Location: Dallas-ish

Re: Shutdown

Post by coopasonic »

Come on guys, it's President's Day weekend, cut the guy some slack.
-Coop
Black Lives Matter
User avatar
$iljanus
Forum Moderator
Posts: 13676
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:46 pm
Location: New England...or under your bed

Re: Shutdown

Post by $iljanus »

Skinypupy wrote:
Smoove_B wrote: Thu Feb 14, 2019 10:21 pm Please tell me he's really going to call a national emergency for the border wall and then get on a plane to golf in Florida this weekend.
While I can't vouch for it's authenticity, it appears that's exactly what he's doing.


So #AirForceOne heading off to Florida on Friday - This was marked 'NOT REPORTABLE' & 'NOT FOR PUBLICATION OR BROADCAST'
Governing is hard and they have his favorite juice box and graham crackers on hand. Now served by the hands of true Americans since the Trump Resort purge.
Black lives matter!

Wise words of warning from Smoove B: Oh, how you all laughed when I warned you about the semen. Well, who's laughing now?
User avatar
LordMortis
Posts: 70100
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:26 pm

Re: Shutdown

Post by LordMortis »

coopasonic wrote: Fri Feb 15, 2019 10:48 am Come on guys, it's President's Day weekend, cut the guy some slack.
I am going to cut the guy some slack, I'm actually surprised at the amount of ongoing national emergencies we have in place.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_n ... ted_States

Though not a single national emergency on the list is funding end around.
User avatar
Skinypupy
Posts: 20333
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 10:12 am
Location: Utah

Re: Shutdown

Post by Skinypupy »

LordMortis wrote: Fri Feb 15, 2019 10:52 am Though not a single national emergency on the list is funding end around.
Exactly. I'm not opposed to the declaration of an emergency, as it's something that has been done many times before, for a multitude of reasons. I am wildly opposed to using it as an alternative funding mechanism when Congress has already said not just "no", but "hell no".

And yes, that sentiment is still going to apply if/when Democrats decide to use the same trick.
When darkness veils the world, four Warriors of Light shall come.
User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 82085
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:

Re: Shutdown

Post by Isgrimnur »

LordMortis wrote: Fri Feb 15, 2019 10:35 am Out-of-Town Travel Poo
You have to make sure you find the best place to stop for those. I prefer fast food restaurants over convenience stores. But a truck stop probably has better odds.
It's almost as if people are the problem.
User avatar
stimpy
Posts: 6102
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 6:04 pm

Re: Shutdown

Post by stimpy »

Paingod wrote: Fri Feb 15, 2019 9:20 am I am loving Pelosi openly saying "Hey, if Trump can declare a border wall and the crisis he's inventing a National Emergency, then surely a Democratic President can declare Gun Violence an emergency too!"

I'm sure somewhere there's a lot of deeply red people feeling deeply red.
And then do what? What exactly would a National Emergency pertaining to gun violence entail?
He/Him/His/Porcupine
User avatar
raydude
Posts: 3894
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 9:22 am

Re: Shutdown

Post by raydude »

stimpy wrote: Fri Feb 15, 2019 11:03 am
Paingod wrote: Fri Feb 15, 2019 9:20 am I am loving Pelosi openly saying "Hey, if Trump can declare a border wall and the crisis he's inventing a National Emergency, then surely a Democratic President can declare Gun Violence an emergency too!"

I'm sure somewhere there's a lot of deeply red people feeling deeply red.
And then do what? What exactly would a National Emergency pertaining to gun violence entail?
Get funds from "unallocated money" to fund an independent study on gun violence and mass shootings for one thing.
User avatar
El Guapo
Posts: 41246
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:01 pm
Location: Boston

Re: Shutdown

Post by El Guapo »

stimpy wrote: Fri Feb 15, 2019 11:03 am
Paingod wrote: Fri Feb 15, 2019 9:20 am I am loving Pelosi openly saying "Hey, if Trump can declare a border wall and the crisis he's inventing a National Emergency, then surely a Democratic President can declare Gun Violence an emergency too!"

I'm sure somewhere there's a lot of deeply red people feeling deeply red.
And then do what? What exactly would a National Emergency pertaining to gun violence entail?
Is there any affirmative congressional authorization supporting the building of The Wall? If there isn't, then Trump's argument is that a national emergency authorizes him to do *anything* with money on hand (probably except for things explicitly forbidden by existing statutes)? If so, I don't see any reason why a national emergency wouldn't support, say, the use of funding to impose background check requirements at gun shows. Or....pretty much anything else.
Black Lives Matter.
User avatar
El Guapo
Posts: 41246
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:01 pm
Location: Boston

Re: Shutdown

Post by El Guapo »

So Trump still hasn't actually signed the funding bill, right? Just expected to at some point today?
Black Lives Matter.
User avatar
Remus West
Posts: 33592
Joined: Mon May 09, 2005 5:39 pm
Location: Not in Westland

Re: Shutdown

Post by Remus West »

Isgrimnur wrote: Fri Feb 15, 2019 11:02 am
LordMortis wrote: Fri Feb 15, 2019 10:35 am Out-of-Town Travel Poo
You have to make sure you find the best place to stop for those. I prefer fast food restaurants over convenience stores. But a truck stop probably has better odds.
Starbuck's is usually clean.
“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.” - H.L. Mencken
User avatar
Skinypupy
Posts: 20333
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 10:12 am
Location: Utah

Re: Shutdown

Post by Skinypupy »

El Guapo wrote: Fri Feb 15, 2019 11:19 am So Trump still hasn't actually signed the funding bill, right? Just expected to at some point today?
Correct.

And I really wish everyone would quit taunting the dynamite monkey until we actually have his signature to keep the government open.
When darkness veils the world, four Warriors of Light shall come.
User avatar
Jaymann
Posts: 19320
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 7:13 pm
Location: California

Re: Shutdown

Post by Jaymann »

Skinypupy wrote: Fri Feb 15, 2019 10:28 am
Smoove_B wrote: Thu Feb 14, 2019 10:21 pm Please tell me he's really going to call a national emergency for the border wall and then get on a plane to golf in Florida this weekend.
While I can't vouch for it's authenticity, it appears that's exactly what he's doing.


So #AirForceOne heading off to Florida on Friday - This was marked 'NOT REPORTABLE' & 'NOT FOR PUBLICATION OR BROADCAST'
But we will have our TOP MEN monitoring the border crisis for any incursions of DUCT TAPE!
Jaymann
]==(:::::::::::::>
Black Lives Matter
User avatar
Smoove_B
Posts: 54567
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 am
Location: Kaer Morhen

Re: Shutdown

Post by Smoove_B »

Skinypupy wrote: Fri Feb 15, 2019 11:24 amAnd I really wish everyone would quit taunting the dynamite monkey until we actually have his signature to keep the government open.
Please. We all know that after "executive time" ends this morning, he needs to watch his TiVo'd airing of Fox and Friends to figure out what his plan will be for signing or not signing this afternoon.
Maybe next year, maybe no go
User avatar
em2nought
Posts: 5307
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 5:48 am

Re: Shutdown

Post by em2nought »

Paingod wrote: Fri Feb 15, 2019 9:20 am I am loving Pelosi openly saying "Hey, if Trump can declare a border wall and the crisis he's inventing a National Emergency, then surely a Democratic President can declare Gun Violence an emergency too!"
If a dim ever getting elected President again they should try that. :mrgreen:
Image
Technically, he shouldn't be here.
User avatar
hepcat
Posts: 51302
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:02 pm
Location: Chicago, IL Home of the triple homicide!

Re: ShutdownPl

Post by hepcat »

You're right. The resulting fireworks from the celebration could potentially cause a fire!
Covfefe!
User avatar
Paingod
Posts: 13132
Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2010 8:58 am

Re: Shutdown

Post by Paingod »

stimpy wrote: Fri Feb 15, 2019 11:03 am
Paingod wrote: Fri Feb 15, 2019 9:20 am I am loving Pelosi openly saying "Hey, if Trump can declare a border wall and the crisis he's inventing a National Emergency, then surely a Democratic President can declare Gun Violence an emergency too!"

I'm sure somewhere there's a lot of deeply red people feeling deeply red.
And then do what? What exactly would a National Emergency pertaining to gun violence entail?
Shit, man. What couldn't they do?

If Trump's imaginary self-created crisis can count as a National Emergency that allows him to route billions of dollars to a wall no one wants, why not run a National Emergency and simply outlaw anything that holds more than 6 bullets, or limit house holds to no more than 1 gun each? It makes about as much sense.
Black Lives Matter

2021-01-20: The first good night's sleep I had in 4 years.
User avatar
stimpy
Posts: 6102
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 6:04 pm

Re: Shutdown

Post by stimpy »

Paingod wrote: Fri Feb 15, 2019 11:50 am
stimpy wrote: Fri Feb 15, 2019 11:03 am
Paingod wrote: Fri Feb 15, 2019 9:20 am I am loving Pelosi openly saying "Hey, if Trump can declare a border wall and the crisis he's inventing a National Emergency, then surely a Democratic President can declare Gun Violence an emergency too!"

I'm sure somewhere there's a lot of deeply red people feeling deeply red.
And then do what? What exactly would a National Emergency pertaining to gun violence entail?
Shit, man. What couldn't they do?

If Trump's imaginary self-created crisis can count as a National Emergency that allows him to route billions of dollars to a wall no one wants, why not run a National Emergency and simply outlaw anything that holds more than 6 bullets, or limit house holds to no more than 1 gun each? It makes about as much sense.
3 words for ya......NRA.
He/Him/His/Porcupine
User avatar
GreenGoo
Posts: 42239
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 10:46 pm
Location: Ottawa, ON

Re: Shutdown

Post by GreenGoo »

Paingod wrote: Fri Feb 15, 2019 11:50 am Shit, man. What couldn't they do?
Well, there are constitutional challenges that a Wall doesn't face. Anything that requires a new law would probably be a challenge to get into place. However, a gun registry, enhanced checks, maybe even taxes on gun manufacturers and gun purchases might be doable and just a start.

Likewise, carbon taxes, increased regulation on fossil fuel industries, fund clean energy initiatives with a quadbazillion dollars of tax payer money, etc, etc.

Throw billions into Obamacare and insurance subsidies.

Give all the tax payer money to people on welfare.

"What can the president do if Congress is removed from the equation" is a somewhat new question for most people. Chances are there are infinite possibilities that smart people with a little time could come up with, most of which the Reps aren't going to like. With that, Dems shouldn't like doing it that way either, but that's a different sort of dislike.
User avatar
GreenGoo
Posts: 42239
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 10:46 pm
Location: Ottawa, ON

Re: Shutdown

Post by GreenGoo »

stimpy wrote: Fri Feb 15, 2019 11:59 am 3 words for ya......NRA.
I...so what?

If Congress can't stop a president from spending money on a boondoggle, how do you figure a private lobbyist is going to be able to do anything? Is this a "maybe the 2nd amendment people can do something about him, I don't know" sorta thing?
User avatar
Skinypupy
Posts: 20333
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 10:12 am
Location: Utah

Re: Shutdown

Post by Skinypupy »

Paingod wrote: Fri Feb 15, 2019 11:50 am
stimpy wrote: Fri Feb 15, 2019 11:03 am
Paingod wrote: Fri Feb 15, 2019 9:20 am I am loving Pelosi openly saying "Hey, if Trump can declare a border wall and the crisis he's inventing a National Emergency, then surely a Democratic President can declare Gun Violence an emergency too!"

I'm sure somewhere there's a lot of deeply red people feeling deeply red.
And then do what? What exactly would a National Emergency pertaining to gun violence entail?
Shit, man. What couldn't they do?

If Trump's imaginary self-created crisis can count as a National Emergency that allows him to route billions of dollars to a wall no one wants, why not run a National Emergency and simply outlaw anything that holds more than 6 bullets, or limit house holds to no more than 1 gun each? It makes about as much sense.
Or how about something simple like allowing the CDC to actually study some of the root causes around gun violence so we have a better understanding of how and why this happens.

THE HORROR!!!!
When darkness veils the world, four Warriors of Light shall come.
User avatar
El Guapo
Posts: 41246
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:01 pm
Location: Boston

Re: Shutdown

Post by El Guapo »

stimpy wrote: Fri Feb 15, 2019 11:59 am
Paingod wrote: Fri Feb 15, 2019 11:50 am
stimpy wrote: Fri Feb 15, 2019 11:03 am
Paingod wrote: Fri Feb 15, 2019 9:20 am I am loving Pelosi openly saying "Hey, if Trump can declare a border wall and the crisis he's inventing a National Emergency, then surely a Democratic President can declare Gun Violence an emergency too!"

I'm sure somewhere there's a lot of deeply red people feeling deeply red.
And then do what? What exactly would a National Emergency pertaining to gun violence entail?
Shit, man. What couldn't they do?

If Trump's imaginary self-created crisis can count as a National Emergency that allows him to route billions of dollars to a wall no one wants, why not run a National Emergency and simply outlaw anything that holds more than 6 bullets, or limit house holds to no more than 1 gun each? It makes about as much sense.
3 words for ya......NRA.
For a democratic president, having the NRA go nuts is probably a political benefit rather than a problem.
Black Lives Matter.
User avatar
stimpy
Posts: 6102
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 6:04 pm

Re: Shutdown

Post by stimpy »

GreenGoo wrote: Fri Feb 15, 2019 12:04 pm
stimpy wrote: Fri Feb 15, 2019 11:59 am 3 words for ya......NRA.
I...so what?

If Congress can't stop a president from spending money on a boondoggle, how do you figure a private lobbyist is going to be able to do anything? Is this a "maybe the 2nd amendment people can do something about him, I don't know" sorta thing?
I was talking about the hypothetical instance of the Dems declaring a national emergency over gun violence.
The NRA has been able to stymie any real changes in the laws. I'm sure they'd throw their whole weight behind stopping that.
He/Him/His/Porcupine
User avatar
El Guapo
Posts: 41246
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:01 pm
Location: Boston

Re: Shutdown

Post by El Guapo »

stimpy wrote: Fri Feb 15, 2019 12:40 pm
GreenGoo wrote: Fri Feb 15, 2019 12:04 pm
stimpy wrote: Fri Feb 15, 2019 11:59 am 3 words for ya......NRA.
I...so what?

If Congress can't stop a president from spending money on a boondoggle, how do you figure a private lobbyist is going to be able to do anything? Is this a "maybe the 2nd amendment people can do something about him, I don't know" sorta thing?
I was talking about the hypothetical instance of the Dems declaring a national emergency over gun violence.
The NRA has been able to stymie any real changes in the laws. I'm sure they'd throw their whole weight behind stopping that.
But the point is that it shifts the relevant policy-making power to the presidency. If they can't influence the policy of the Democratic president....they're out of luck. I mean, in theory they could lobby Congress to pass a law prohibiting what the president is doing, but the president can veto that, and good luck getting to a 2/3rds majority to override.
Black Lives Matter.
User avatar
Vorret
Posts: 9613
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2007 7:37 pm
Location: Drummondville, QC

Re: Shutdown

Post by Vorret »

This is entertaining! Thanks Ob... Trump !

:pop: :pop: :pop: :pop:
Isgrimnur wrote:
His name makes me think of a small, burrowing rodent anyway.
malchior
Posts: 24794
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 pm

Re: Shutdown

Post by malchior »

Further demonstrating he is one of the biggest POS in American history.

User avatar
Zaxxon
Forum Moderator
Posts: 28118
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:11 am
Location: Surrounded by Mountains

Re: Shutdown

Post by Zaxxon »

Image
User avatar
hepcat
Posts: 51302
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:02 pm
Location: Chicago, IL Home of the triple homicide!

Re: Shutdown

Post by hepcat »

Pre Trump

GOP: Obama using executive power is tyranny!

Post Trump

GOP: The President of the United States can do whatever he wants!

Anyone who calls himself a republican after today has definitively proven themselves a hypocrite of the highest order.
Covfefe!
User avatar
coopasonic
Posts: 20969
Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2005 11:43 pm
Location: Dallas-ish

Re: Shutdown

Post by coopasonic »

McConnell talking about partisan obstruction...
-Coop
Black Lives Matter
User avatar
LordMortis
Posts: 70100
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:26 pm

Re: Shutdown

Post by LordMortis »

coopasonic wrote: Fri Feb 15, 2019 5:39 pm McConnell talking about partisan obstruction...
He understands it better than anyone. He was an apprentice for a decade and then the master for a decade after.
User avatar
GreenGoo
Posts: 42239
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 10:46 pm
Location: Ottawa, ON

Re: Shutdown

Post by GreenGoo »

El Guapo wrote: Fri Feb 15, 2019 1:09 pm
stimpy wrote: Fri Feb 15, 2019 12:40 pm I was talking about the hypothetical instance of the Dems declaring a national emergency over gun violence.
The NRA has been able to stymie any real changes in the laws. I'm sure they'd throw their whole weight behind stopping that.
But the point is that it shifts the relevant policy-making power to the presidency. If they can't influence the policy of the Democratic president....they're out of luck. I mean, in theory they could lobby Congress to pass a law prohibiting what the president is doing, but the president can veto that, and good luck getting to a 2/3rds majority to override.
This is the entire point of what is being discussed. Congress is no longer part of the equation.
User avatar
Jaymann
Posts: 19320
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 7:13 pm
Location: California

Re: Shutdown

Post by Jaymann »

So did Captain Marmalade actually sign the compromise bill or is it still sitting on his desk?
Jaymann
]==(:::::::::::::>
Black Lives Matter
User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 82085
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:

Re: Shutdown

Post by Isgrimnur »

Fedweek, February 14, 2019
President Trump signed into law today (Friday) a bill to head off another partial government shutdown and provide an average 1.9 percent federal employee raise retroactive to the first full pay period of this year, which started January 6.
It's almost as if people are the problem.
User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 82085
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:

Re: Shutdown

Post by Isgrimnur »

Perhaps we won't need this thread for a while.
White House and congressional negotiators rushing to hammer out the final details of a sweeping budget and debt deal are unlikely to include many — if any — actual spending cuts, even as the debt limit is lifted for two years, people familiar with the talks said.

The agreement appeared likely to mark a retreat for White House officials who had demanded major spending cuts in exchange for a new budget deal. But the process remained in limbo while negotiators awaited final approval late Sunday from President Trump.

The pending deal would seek to extend the debt ceiling and set new spending levels for two years, ratcheting back the budget brinkmanship that led to a record-long government shutdown earlier this year.

But instead of the $150 billion in new spending cuts recently demanded by White House acting budget director Russell Vought, the agreement would include a significantly lower amount of reductions. And those reductions aren’t expected to represent actual spending cuts, in part because most would take place in future years and likely be reversed by Congress at a later date. A precise figure could not be learned.

Details remained fluid and subject to change, according to the people describing the talks, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to reveal details.

In practical terms, the budget agreement would increase spending by tens of billions of dollars in the next two years, a stark reversal from the White House’s budget request several months ago that sought to slash spending at many agencies starting in October.
It's almost as if people are the problem.
User avatar
Skinypupy
Posts: 20333
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 10:12 am
Location: Utah

Re: Shutdown

Post by Skinypupy »

Fingers crossed...
When darkness veils the world, four Warriors of Light shall come.
Post Reply