Chaz wrote: ↑Fri Mar 23, 2018 1:56 pm
According to the speech he just gave, this bill consists of a bunch of military funding, immigration enforcement, way too little funding for the badly needed wall, and a bunch of wasted spending on things the democrats wanted, but that he had to take because the system is broken. He called for an end to the filibuster and for him to have a line item veto for every government spending bill. He also again claimed that the GOP is 100% with DACA recipients, and the Dems are all against them, and that he wanted to do something on DACA, but as you know, DACA is tied to the $25 billion in wall spending, so he couldn't do anything.
I need a goddamn drink after watching that.
So, like Moliere said, a perfectly normal bill signing ceremony.
"What? What?What?" -- The 14th Doctor
It's not enough to be a good player... you also have to play well. -- Siegbert Tarrasch
stessier wrote: ↑Fri Mar 23, 2018 4:22 pm
Bills like that should be like a mortgage - they should make the president initial every page so he can't claim later that he didn't read it.
That bill is so long it would take him weeks to read and initial every page. How would he have any time to run the country while doing . . . .
stessier wrote: ↑Fri Mar 23, 2018 4:22 pm
Bills like that should be like a mortgage - they should make the president initial every page so he can't claim later that he didn't read it.
Why are you excluding Congress from this rule? Again, everyone loves trashing on Trump (usually deservedly) while ignoring the fact that politicians don't write or read their own legislation. At best they are getting summaries written by their staff.
"The world is suffering more today from the good people who want to mind other men's business than it is from the bad people who are willing to let everybody look after their own individual affairs." - Clarence Darrow
The Senate voted overwhelmingly to approve a measure that would fund the government through Dec. 7, as well as provide funding for the Pentagon and the Health and Human Services Department for fiscal 2019.
If passed, the bill would avert a partial government shutdown when current funding legislation expires at the end of September, but it still needs approval from the House and President Trump’s signature.
Justin Amash again calls out the Republicans (his own Party) and Trump on their spending habits.
"The world is suffering more today from the good people who want to mind other men's business than it is from the bad people who are willing to let everybody look after their own individual affairs." - Clarence Darrow
Republicans have been hypocrites about the debt since I was a child at the least. If he felt that strongly about it he probably shouldn't have become one.
The president said he would back a two-week delay of a government shutdown battle after the death of former President George H.W. Bush. Government funding expires on Dec. 7 for several departments, including Homeland Security, and the president is urging Congress to send him at least $5 billion in border security. But Bush's death has changed the calculation in Washington and appears likely to lead to a stopgap funding extension.
GOP leaders are considering extending government funding for a week or two, according to multiple Republican sources. They are leaning toward one week, pushing the battle off until mid-December.
That's in part because Bush's death and plans for him to lie in state in the Capitol early this week will complicate any efforts to hammer out a large-scale funding deal before the Friday deadline, leading both the president and congressional leaders to seek a longer runway for the shutdown fight.
...
Pelosi and Schumer are resisting Trump's border funding demands, with Schumer sticking to a bipartisan $1.6 billion border security deal hammered out in the Senate‘s Appropriations Committee.
President Trump on Friday signed a short-term spending bill that averts a partial government shutdown for now, postponing a fight over his border wall until just before Christmas.
The legislation extends government funding for the Homeland Security Department, the Justice Department, the Agriculture Department and some other government agencies through Dec. 21. Funding for those agencies had been set to expire today, Friday Dec. 7, at midnight.
...
If Congress and Trump do not act before midnight Dec. 21 a partial government shutdown will begin, potentially affecting hundreds of thousands of federal workers.
I'm sure my workplace proximity associates are super enthusiastic this morning, given a looming shutdown and the resignation of their very well-liked and respected boss.
And in banks across the world
Christians, Moslems, Hindus, Jews
And every other race, creed, colour, tint or hue
Get down on their knees and pray
The raccoon and the groundhog neatly
Make up bags of change
But the monkey in the corner
Well he's slowly drifting out of range
RunningMn9 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 21, 2018 9:54 am
I'm sure my workplace proximity associates are super enthusiastic this morning, given a looming shutdown and the resignation of their very well-liked and respected boss.
pr0ner wrote: ↑Fri Dec 21, 2018 9:42 am
Soooo, apparently at least one Republican senator, along with Trump, are pushing the nuclear option to ensure border wall funding passes the Senate.
Trump's Twitter tantrum this morning about the wall was epic and even more narcissistic than normal.
This is unbelievable.
FWIW McConnell has said that there's "no support" for removing the filibuster. We'll see, I suppose.
I can't see McConnell going along with the nuclear option. It gets him literally nothing in return. More, the President is trying to hang the shutdown on the Dems and the Dems will hang it on him. His best option is to let them fight it out between them.
pr0ner wrote: ↑Fri Dec 21, 2018 11:12 am
It's so Trump to say during the big Pelosi/Schumer meeting that he would own the shutdown, but now he's shifted blame squarely on the Democrats.
Which is great since the Senate passed a bipartisan CR, and Trump cried foul about it.
What is a little surprising is he showed a little bit of political planning. I thought it was odd to bring the House leadership up solo to 'fix' this problem. Now it makes some sense. Essentially he ordered Ryan and McCarthy to march down and pass a resolution so that he could blame the Dems for the filibuster. It is stupidly transparent and he is still on video saying he'd shutdown the government. So from a political strategy point of view it is the bare minimum that a high school class council could think of but hey at least he is learning on the job!
Last edited by malchior on Fri Dec 21, 2018 11:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
Ten days to do a 180. What was the over under? Is there a prop bet on going 360 then 540?
This would be entertaining reality TV is if weren't for livlihoods and stability and our future standing/credibility among our peers in the world being toyed with and needless stress tested to the point of fatigue.
Also I fear the confidence that this will tank and not make 60 in the senate. Strange shit happens and prideful confidence isn't always what it's cracked up to be. I can see 5 Billion a backroomm dealing being earmarked and pissed away on the will that's never built.
I think this shutdown will go on for much longer than anyone expects. 75% of the govt is already funded, and other than Homeland Security, Trump doesn't care about any of the departments. There will be a national security waiver for the parts of HS that are essential, and Trump will be quite happy to let the rest do nothing. There won't be an outcry from the public because these departments won't impact people on a day to day basis. Trump just doesn't care. And if he caves now, he looks weak and that is anathema to him.
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions. – G.K. Chesterton
LordMortis wrote: ↑Fri Dec 21, 2018 11:24 am
Also I fear the confidence that this will tank and not make 60 in the senate. Strange shit happens and prideful confidence isn't always what it's cracked up to be. I can see 5 Billion a backroomm dealing being earmarked and pissed away on the will that's never built.
That isn't how it works though. Money allocated must be spent - it is literally a law. I don't think this is about pride for anyone but Trump. No one with a lick of sense wants to spend $5 Billion on a wall. It is completely 100% a waste of money. The Dems offered to put money into usable border security. And no matter what all he wants a wall. Mostly because he is a child. So in the end no one with the power to fix this has any incentive to kowtow to Trump. He has no political capital.
Grifman wrote: ↑Fri Dec 21, 2018 11:43 am
I think this shutdown will go on for much longer than anyone expects.
I agree. If nothing because Congress is about to turnover. This could be a huge mess. The wheels have come off the Trump bus and he loves nothing but a fight. He is restrained by the system so he is doing as much as he can to be 'powerful' where he can.
Grifman wrote: ↑Fri Dec 21, 2018 11:43 am
I think this shutdown will go on for much longer than anyone expects. 75% of the govt is already funded, and other than Homeland Security, Trump doesn't care about any of the departments. There will be a national security waiver for the parts of HS that are essential, and Trump will be quite happy to let the rest do nothing. There won't be an outcry from the public because these departments won't impact people on a day to day basis. Trump just doesn't care. And if he caves now, he looks weak and that is anathema to him.
I dunno. Once the Democrats take over the House in a couple weeks, a clean funding bill should pass both chambers before then, so Trump'll be in the position of having to veto a clean bill in order to keep the shutdown going. GOP congressional leaders don't really want this shutdown as it is, and that's going to make it look worse for them. And Democrats have the "proud to shutdown the government" clip that'll be recycled endlessly.
I could easily see this going on for a few weeks, though, at least. And at the end of the day god knows what Trump will do.
LordMortis wrote: ↑Fri Dec 21, 2018 11:24 am
Also I fear the confidence that this will tank and not make 60 in the senate. Strange shit happens and prideful confidence isn't always what it's cracked up to be. I can see 5 Billion a backroomm dealing being earmarked and pissed away on the will that's never built.
That isn't how it works though. Money allocated must be spent - it is literally a law. I don't think this is about pride for anyone but Trump. No one with a lick of sense wants to spend $5 Billion on a wall. It is completely 100% a waste of money. The Dems offered to put money into usable border security. And no matter what all he wants a wall. Mostly because he is a child. So in the end no one with the power to fix this has any incentive to kowtow to Trump. He has no political capital.
Oh I have no doubt it will be spent "on the wall" if it is allocated.
And while I support the notion of not giving in to the Wall demands, and while I do think Turmp's Shut Down is fucked up, I do think it's prideful to assume the Senate will reject the notion and prideful to flat out say "there will be no Wall."
(Also given his support has no problem burning it to the ground until the fire is burning their house, I'm actually surprised by the 180. I'm guessing that he was given advice and will regret utilizing it)
Last edited by LordMortis on Fri Dec 21, 2018 12:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The thing is that the people that Pelosi and Schumer should be sitting down with are the people at Fox & Friends and Rush Limbaugh. Trump's obviously not looking to shut down the government or "build the wall" per se - he mainly wants to make sure that he has something that he can plausibly sell to his base as having "built the wall". Hence him backing off from the shutdown threat earlier this week on the claim that they were building like a clear steel slats quasi-wall or whatever that BS was. The problem was that conservative media institutions blew that up by making clear that they weren't buying that as a win. So Pelosi and Schumer need to negotiate with Fox & Friends and Limbaugh over what they can do that the latter are willing to sell to the Trump base as having "won" on the building the wall issue.
The Dems should give Trump money for his wall and get as much as they can for it. Earlier this year, the Dems were willing to fund the entire $25B if Trump supported legislation to protect DACA kids but he backed out of it. Now they can get that at a discount. Push Trump for DACA and whatever other part of immigration reform they can get, and give him the $5B. Seems worth it to me.
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions. – G.K. Chesterton
Grifman wrote: ↑Fri Dec 21, 2018 12:19 pmPush Trump for DACA and whatever other part of immigration reform they can get, and give him the $5B. Seems worth it to me.
I agree but it isn't practical. You can't get the immigration reform stuff marked up in time and would have to take Trump's word on it. So they'd have to 'surrender' and take a tongue lashing from their own base and possibly never get the thing promised.
The government is about to be shut down over a wall. A wall. The ultimate solution for illegal immigration from the "best and brightest" this administration has to offer is a fucking wall.
Sorry...every so often, I have to step back and remind myself of how utterly absurd all of this really is.
When darkness veils the world, four Warriors of Light shall come.
This is the guy who can't get through a 10 bullet-point briefing unless each point features his name and pictures of gorillas.
