Shutdown

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Jaymann
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Re: Shutdown

Post by Jaymann »

The stop-gap spending bill still needs to formally pass the Senate and then the House before being signed by President Donald Trump before government can officially re-open. But that result appears all but assured.
Unless the TIC has a conflicting tee time.
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LordMortis
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Re: Shutdown

Post by LordMortis »

I keep seeing TIC. Is the TiC? Toddler in Charge? Tweeter in Chief?

And yeah, if his ego isn't sucked enough, I could see him shitting the bed and blaming the staff.
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GreenGoo
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Re: Shutdown

Post by GreenGoo »

LordMortis wrote: Mon Jan 22, 2018 2:43 pm In answer to what appears to be today's marching orders

https://www.snopes.com/canada-refugee-benefits/

They can't even get their countries correct. *sigh*
Is that going around again? Someone must be pushing it, as it already made the rounds months ago. The Snopes article is an old one because the propaganda is old.
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Alefroth
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Re: Shutdown

Post by Alefroth »

When did the GOP start suddenly caring about federal workers?
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hepcat
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Re: Shutdown

Post by hepcat »

I wonder what kind of uproar there would be if Trump nixed the deal after it reaches his desk...
Covfefe!
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em2nought
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Re: Shutdown

Post by em2nought »

hepcat wrote: Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:36 pm If you can't spell "motto", you really are just proving everyone's point about Trump supporters.
"alternative" spelling. Like covfefe. :mrgreen:
Technically, he shouldn't be here.
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LordMortis
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Re: Shutdown

Post by LordMortis »

GreenGoo wrote: Mon Jan 22, 2018 5:10 pm
LordMortis wrote: Mon Jan 22, 2018 2:43 pm In answer to what appears to be today's marching orders

https://www.snopes.com/canada-refugee-benefits/

They can't even get their countries correct. *sigh*
Is that going around again? Someone must be pushing it, as it already made the rounds months ago. The Snopes article is an old one because the propaganda is old.
Yeah the US wasn't in "shutdown because dreamers" months ago, so they had no reason to take Canadian propaganda and apply it in the US.
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GreenGoo
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Re: Shutdown

Post by GreenGoo »

Right, sorry.
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$iljanus
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Re: Shutdown

Post by $iljanus »

LordMortis wrote:I keep seeing TIC. Is the TiC? Toddler in Charge? Tweeter in Chief?

And yeah, if his ego isn't sucked enough, I could see him shitting the bed and blaming the staff.
Toddler In Chief I believe. I was rather pleased to be able to use the term Toddler In Chief earlier in the thread. It's one of the few pleasures I get from having such a nonsensical person in the White House.

Is the CHIP re-authorization included in the agreement? It was shameful that it has been languishing for this long.
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Grifman
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Re: Shutdown

Post by Grifman »

Well, that was certainly a waste.
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Daehawk
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Re: Shutdown

Post by Daehawk »

Why do the Dems believe the Rep will do anything about the Dreamers in 2 1/2 weeks? If they aren't willing to now with the shutdown they sure as hell wont in 2 1/2 weeks.
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Re: Shutdown

Post by Kraken »

So the Dems basically just caved, amiright? Did they gain anything at all, such as maybe credibility for playing hardball going into the next round of brinksmanship? The way it looks from my cheap seat is that they got blamed for obstructionism and then blinked.
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Re: Shutdown

Post by Skinypupy »

And now we get to do this whole thing again on Feb 8. Whoopdie-fucking-do.
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Zaxxon
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Re: Shutdown

Post by Zaxxon »

Kraken wrote:So the Dems basically just caved, amiright? Did they gain anything at all, such as maybe credibility for playing hardball going into the next round of brinksmanship? The way it looks from my cheap seat is that they got blamed for obstructionism and then blinked.
Vox on this.
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Pyperkub
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Re: Shutdown

Post by Pyperkub »

Zaxxon wrote: Mon Jan 22, 2018 8:17 pm
Kraken wrote:So the Dems basically just caved, amiright? Did they gain anything at all, such as maybe credibility for playing hardball going into the next round of brinksmanship? The way it looks from my cheap seat is that they got blamed for obstructionism and then blinked.
Vox on this.
So yeah, in exchange for deferring leverage for 3 weeks, they got 6 years of CHIP funded (finally). They may also get even more long-term Latino support, at the cost of short-term immigration hits. As I mentioned upthread however, I agree with YK that immigration isn't necessarily the hill to die on here. The angle to work is fiscal responsibility and paygo - especially in regards to the Wall - if the GOP wants it so badly, set up a dedicated source of funding, don't just add it to the deficit.
Black Lives definitely Matter Lorini!

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em2nought
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Re: Shutdown

Post by em2nought »

Poor Chucky Schumer. Sad! :oops:
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Technically, he shouldn't be here.
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GreenGoo
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Re: Shutdown

Post by GreenGoo »

Dude. The same people who made that pic think snopes is leftist propaganda.

As far as undermining journalism and the truth, they are active participants. And now so are you. Get your shit together or you're going to be the first OO I've ever ignored.

If your goal is to participate, then participate. If your goal is to troll, find better sources. If your goal is to just shit on things constantly, buh-bye.

Sort it out.
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em2nought
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Re: Shutdown

Post by em2nought »

Oh please, wouldn't you grow bored of the groupthink love shack that this place would become full of "yes" men. :wink: Love shack baby! :mrgreen: Then three years down the road you'll all need therapy if Trump wins again.
Technically, he shouldn't be here.
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Zaxxon
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Re: Shutdown

Post by Zaxxon »

And... Resolved that problem.
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GreenGoo
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Re: Shutdown

Post by GreenGoo »

em2nought wrote: Mon Jan 22, 2018 9:16 pm Oh please, wouldn't you grow bored of the groupthink love shack that this place would become full of "yes" men. :wink: Love shack baby! :mrgreen: Then three years down the road you'll all need therapy if Trump wins again.
You're not hearing me. It's not your "different" opinion that is the problem.
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Chaz
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Re: Shutdown

Post by Chaz »

Zaxxon wrote: Mon Jan 22, 2018 9:17 pm And... Resolved that problem.
I made that call this morning.
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gbasden
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Re: Shutdown

Post by gbasden »

hepcat wrote: Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:36 pm If you can't spell "motto", you really are just proving everyone's point about Trump supporters.
If you are dumb enough to buy into the fairy tale that somehow the Clintons have a vast army of hitmen, you are proving the point about Trump supporters.
Freyland
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Re: Shutdown

Post by Freyland »

Chaz wrote: Mon Jan 22, 2018 9:24 pm
Zaxxon wrote: Mon Jan 22, 2018 9:17 pm And... Resolved that problem.
I made that call this morning.
Like, 4 months ago
Sims 3 and signature unclear.
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hepcat
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Re: Shutdown

Post by hepcat »

em2nought wrote: Mon Jan 22, 2018 9:16 pm Oh please, wouldn't you grow bored of the groupthink love shack that this place would become full of "yes" men.
All villages need their idiot. That is true.
Covfefe!
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Zarathud
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Re: Shutdown

Post by Zarathud »

Watching the Congressional video --Schumer coordinated motions forcing McConnell to personally object to voting in unanimous consent (1) to approve military pay, (2) to approve 1 more day or (3) the weekend. Vulnerable Democratic Senators were able to make each objection on the record.
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Daveman
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Re: Shutdown

Post by Daveman »

I think putting off the DACA/immigration fixes was the best possible option for the Democrats at this moment. It shows an effort to try and work things out. But if McConnell doesn't get a bill up for a vote by the deadline that's on him. If the "compromise" is harsh on the dreamers, insists on building the wall or else, or is otherwise unacceptable they can play hardball again.
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Daehawk
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Re: Shutdown

Post by Daehawk »

Does anything other than approval rating stick to this GOP?
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Zarathud
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Re: Shutdown

Post by Zarathud »

After watching the news, it seems the Democrats get CHIP for 6 years by appearing to give in. And they've narrowed the issues.

So while not good on the public optics of a "shutdown", it's about as much winning as they can get. They've outmaneuvered the GOP at a time Trump would like the headlines to blame the Democrats. Instead, we'll get more stories from porn stars to enrage Trump for a few days.
"If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts." - Albert Einstein
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“Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing.” - John Stuart Mill, Inaugural Address Delivered to the University of St Andrews, 2/1/1867
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Kurth
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Re: Shutdown

Post by Kurth »

Zaxxon wrote: Mon Jan 22, 2018 8:17 pm
Kraken wrote:So the Dems basically just caved, amiright? Did they gain anything at all, such as maybe credibility for playing hardball going into the next round of brinksmanship? The way it looks from my cheap seat is that they got blamed for obstructionism and then blinked.
Vox on this.
The central political problem in American life, for years now, has been that the Republican Party is a dysfunctional institution that has abandoned principles of decent governance in order to please an ever more extreme base. I don’t have an answer for fixing that. But it would be doubly bad if their outrageous behavior drives Democrats to use the same tactics in response. American politics is, hopefully, an infinite game, not a finite game, and that means doing everything possible to steer away from retaliatory loops that clearly lead to the system crumbling.
From that Vox article. Could not agree more.
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Drazzil
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Re: Shutdown

Post by Drazzil »

Kurth wrote: Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:41 am
Zaxxon wrote: Mon Jan 22, 2018 8:17 pm
Kraken wrote:So the Dems basically just caved, amiright? Did they gain anything at all, such as maybe credibility for playing hardball going into the next round of brinksmanship? The way it looks from my cheap seat is that they got blamed for obstructionism and then blinked.
Vox on this.
The central political problem in American life, for years now, has been that the Republican Party is a dysfunctional institution that has abandoned principles of decent governance in order to please an ever more extreme base. I don’t have an answer for fixing that. But it would be doubly bad if their outrageous behavior drives Democrats to use the same tactics in response. American politics is, hopefully, an infinite game, not a finite game, and that means doing everything possible to steer away from retaliatory loops that clearly lead to the system crumbling.
From that Vox article. Could not agree more.

So the response is to give the Repubs what they want?

Bring on both sides being just as unreasonable... please. Otherwise we wont have a country cause the Democrats will have given it all away.
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Pyperkub
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Re: Shutdown

Post by Pyperkub »

GOP got deferment of yet-to-be implemented ACA taxes too. Government actually worked as it's supposed to for once - a win-win compromise.
Black Lives definitely Matter Lorini!

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Daehawk
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Re: Shutdown

Post by Daehawk »

Trump tauts 'big' win as Dems 'cave' ....keep it up loudmouth moron.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42785678
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Re: Shutdown

Post by tjg_marantz »

Home of the Akimbo AWPs
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Skinypupy
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Re: Shutdown

Post by Skinypupy »

What an colossal douche. (He says for he hundredth time this week)

As we all know, starting out negotiations by insulting the other side is always the best way to broker a deal that is good for the American people. Such winning!

(Side note: the gleeful and unchecked racism in that Twitter thread makes me weep for the future of this country. That has to be the extreme vocal minority...right?)
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pr0ner
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Re: Shutdown

Post by pr0ner »

Skinypupy wrote: Tue Jan 23, 2018 7:43 am What an colossal douche. (He says for he hundredth time this week)

As we all know, starting out negotiations by insulting the other side is always the best way to broker a deal that is good for the American people. Such winning!

(Side note: the gleeful and unchecked racism in that Twitter thread makes me weep for the future of this country. That has to be the extreme vocal minority...right?)
I'm sure a great many of them are Russian bots, too.

But, yes. ANYTHING that Trump posts turns into a cascade of memes (on both sides) and racism, usually by the same group of actors.
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El Guapo
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Re: Shutdown

Post by El Guapo »

Kurth wrote: Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:41 am
Zaxxon wrote: Mon Jan 22, 2018 8:17 pm
Kraken wrote:So the Dems basically just caved, amiright? Did they gain anything at all, such as maybe credibility for playing hardball going into the next round of brinksmanship? The way it looks from my cheap seat is that they got blamed for obstructionism and then blinked.
Vox on this.
The central political problem in American life, for years now, has been that the Republican Party is a dysfunctional institution that has abandoned principles of decent governance in order to please an ever more extreme base. I don’t have an answer for fixing that. But it would be doubly bad if their outrageous behavior drives Democrats to use the same tactics in response. American politics is, hopefully, an infinite game, not a finite game, and that means doing everything possible to steer away from retaliatory loops that clearly lead to the system crumbling.
From that Vox article. Could not agree more.
This is the key part for me (from the Vox article):
8) And if Democrats do need to shut down the government in three weeks, they’ll do so with the Children’s Health Insurance Program funded for six years, rather than seeing it weaponized against them. That’s a big deal, both substantively and politically.
This seems like a solid reason to take the deal - funding CHIP is a big deal as a policy matter, AND it defuses the "you're putting illegals ahead of American kids" talking point as a political matter, and it's only a three week delay.

The part I don't get is why they didn't just take the deal on Friday. You'd have to argue that McConnell's promise / "intention" was worth the shutdown. But if McConnell doesn't allow a DACA vote, then Democrats can shut down again in three weeks, with CHIP off the table and with a simpler #KeepYourPromise type message.

We'll see, anyway.
Black Lives Matter.
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Jaymann
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Re: Shutdown

Post by Jaymann »

The only negotiating he will be doing is that difficult green on the 14th hole.
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Vorret
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Re: Shutdown

Post by Vorret »

Jaymann wrote: Tue Jan 23, 2018 10:59 am The only negotiating he will be doing is that difficult green on the 14th hole.
we talking about golf or prostitutes?
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El Guapo
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Re: Shutdown

Post by El Guapo »

Vorret wrote: Tue Jan 23, 2018 2:14 pm
Jaymann wrote: Tue Jan 23, 2018 10:59 am The only negotiating he will be doing is that difficult green on the 14th hole.
we talking about golf or prostitutes?
Probably both.
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Paingod
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Re: Shutdown

Post by Paingod »

Kraken wrote: Mon Jan 22, 2018 8:11 pm So the Dems basically just caved, amiright? Did they gain anything at all, such as maybe credibility for playing hardball going into the next round of brinksmanship? The way it looks from my cheap seat is that they got blamed for obstructionism and then blinked.
Next thing you know, they'll say the Republicans had invited them over, pushed really hard for legislation, but they asked them to slow it down a little. The republicans agreed, and asked the Democrats to relax by the podium. When they turned around, though, Ryan was there holding his pen out and the Dems felt they had to sign, regardless.
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