Octopus Overlords

Dems got a 6 year extension on Chip and a promise for a vote on DACA. McConnell might well go back on his promise, but they at least got the Chip extension and a decent cudgel to hit Republicans with if they go back on the DACA vote.

And with the extension already in place, the Rs have one less bargaining chip they can hold over Democrats' heads.

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2018 4:17 pm And with the extension already in place, the Rs have one less bargaining chip they can hold over Democrats' heads.

I see what you did there

Pyperkub wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2018 5:02 pm

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2018 4:17 pm And with the extension already in place, the Rs have one less bargaining chip they can hold over Democrats' heads.

I see what you did there

Yes, because I'm clever and clearly had that in mind when I wrote it. Clearly.

gbasden wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2018 9:30 pm

hepcat wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:36 pm If you can't spell "motto", you really are just proving everyone's point about Trump supporters.

If you are dumb enough to buy into the fairy tale that somehow the Clintons have a vast army of hitmen, you are proving the point about Trump supporters.

With the "dead men tell no tales", I was implying that "dead" voters aren't going to complain that somebody voted democrat in their place. I can see how you could become so easily confused though.

em2nought wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2018 11:21 pm
With the "dead men tell no tales", I was implying that "dead" voters aren't going to complain that somebody voted democrat in their place. I can see how you could become so easily confused though.

Yes, with the plethora of right wing fantasies it's easy to mistake one for another.

It's also easy to overlook evidence of real live Republican vote tampering -- by Republican voters, poll watchers discouraging black voters, robocalls suppressing turnout, voter statutes with the express purpose of reducing voting, districting, fraudulent votes by campaign operatives, fake commissions that never bother to look at facts, sustained foreign election interference, etc.

But, you know, it's the zombie voters who are the real problem.

It's like a bad schlock horror film set to repeat.

This bodes well for February 8.

Indeed. Though one question is whether, when it comes down to it, Democrats would trade full DACA legalization for the wall. I don't doubt that they would trade a lot of border security stuff for it, including wall-related stuff (like border monitoring technology that could be called a quasi-wall, or a portion of a wall covering some amount of the border (like exists now). And if democrats ultimately decide that they can live with a wall-for-DACA trade, would Trump / Stephen Miller then actually accept that deal?

I wonder if you could make the deal "you get funding for the wall, but the funding is doled out in increments, and each increment has to be approved by Congress according to a set of success criteria." Then you just wait for the administration to trip all over themselves in actually implementing, because of course they will.

Hell, you could make the criteria that the wall adhere to the President's own claims about it, and then it'll never happen.

The Wall is like Reagan's "star wars" - a money pit that won't work. I think it is more about the TIC wanting a monument to his dick that can be seen from space.

El Guapo wrote: ↑Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:43 am Indeed. Though one question is whether, when it comes down to it, Democrats would trade full DACA legalization for the wall. I don't doubt that they would trade a lot of border security stuff for it, including wall-related stuff (like border monitoring technology that could be called a quasi-wall, or a portion of a wall covering some amount of the border (like exists now). And if democrats ultimately decide that they can live with a wall-for-DACA trade, would Trump / Stephen Miller then actually accept that deal?

Wasn't that already on the table? Schumer told Trump he would fund the wall, but Trump and his cronies suddenly wanted more money.

I know Schumer pulled that deal after the shutdown ended, but I have to imagine that he would put it back on the table if it led to full DACA legalization. I also think the vast majority of the country would be ok with it. The wall is a monumentally stupid idea, and will be extremely expensive... but if it's what Trump and the Republicans need to do the right thing on DACA, so be it.

I don't understand why the cost of the wall keeps coming up as I thought Mexico was paying for it. Why is that even a negotiation point? Oh, because it was total nonsense? Mark my words, as we get closer to 2/8, the funding discussions will ramp up again and it will all fall apart.

The trick for approving any boondoggle like Trump's wall is to make people other than Trump benefit by spreading money around. The wall itself is pointless, and nobody cares about it except Trump and his stooges. Getting one's hooks into those billions, however, stirs the shriveled black heart of any congressperson. They need to find a way to spread the bucks beyond a few border states, because what's one more graft & corruption appropriation?

If Manchin threatened to not run for re-election if the shutdown continued, that would explain a lot. Manchin not running for reelection would change that seat to a likely democratic hold to a virtual lock Republican pickup, which would in turn virtually kill the democrats hopes of taking the Senate in 2018. 6 years of CHIP + a McConnell promise of a DACA vote + Manchin running for reelection is an easy decision for Schumer.

msteelers wrote: ↑Wed Jan 24, 2018 12:09 pm The wall is a monumentally stupid idea, and will be extremely expensive... but if it's what Trump and the Republicans need to do the right thing on DACA, so be it.

It's also unlikely to be completed under this president, and will likely be scuttled by whomever follows 45.

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Wed Jan 24, 2018 12:14 pm I don't understand why the cost of the wall keeps coming up as I thought Mexico was paying for it. Why is that even a negotiation point? Oh, because it was total nonsense? Mark my words, as we get closer to 2/8, the funding discussions will ramp up again and it will all fall apart.

True enough. That fucking moron is going to throw a hand grenade into the converstaion and frack everyone. Guaranteed. In fact, they should have picked 2/9. If they shutdown again at least they can lock him in a room again since he hates working on the weekend.

*frag

The only plausible route to building the wall and having Mexico "pay for it" is:

(1) Get Congress to pay for the wall somehow (like, say, part of this DACA deal).
(2) Fuck with Mexico (say over NAFTA), and work out some settlement (even if it's mostly in Mexico's favor) that involves Mexico making some type of payment to the U.S.
(3) Say "the wall is being built and Mexico is paying for it", pointing to the wall construction and money coming in from Mexico. Does not matter if this accurately describes the payments from Mexico (since the target is not people smart enough to notice the details here).

malchior wrote: ↑Wed Jan 24, 2018 3:30 pm

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Wed Jan 24, 2018 12:14 pm I don't understand why the cost of the wall keeps coming up as I thought Mexico was paying for it. Why is that even a negotiation point? Oh, because it was total nonsense? Mark my words, as we get closer to 2/8, the funding discussions will ramp up again and it will all fall apart.

True enough. That fucking moron is going to throw a hand grenade into the converstaion and frack everyone. Guaranteed. In fact, they should have picked 2/9. If they shutdown again at least they can lock him in a room again since he hates working on the weekend.

They should have voted to fund through the 16th instead. I love the thought of him sitting inside the White House during Presidents Day weekend.

Biyobi wrote: ↑Wed Jan 24, 2018 3:34 pm

malchior wrote: ↑Wed Jan 24, 2018 3:30 pm

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Wed Jan 24, 2018 12:14 pm I don't understand why the cost of the wall keeps coming up as I thought Mexico was paying for it. Why is that even a negotiation point? Oh, because it was total nonsense? Mark my words, as we get closer to 2/8, the funding discussions will ramp up again and it will all fall apart.

True enough. That fucking moron is going to throw a hand grenade into the converstaion and frack everyone. Guaranteed. In fact, they should have picked 2/9. If they shutdown again at least they can lock him in a room again since he hates working on the weekend.

They should have voted to fund through the 16th instead. I love the thought of him sitting inside the White House during Presidents Day weekend.

I hate the thought of him sitting in the White House.

I love how the master of the "Art of the Deal" thinks the best way to negotiate is to call the guy you're trying to broker a deal with childish nicknames.

I think part of the shutdown deal should have been to shut down Trump's Twitter account for a week. Just a goddamn week. That's all I ask.

Remus West wrote:

Biyobi wrote: ↑Wed Jan 24, 2018 3:34 pm

malchior wrote: ↑Wed Jan 24, 2018 3:30 pm

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Wed Jan 24, 2018 12:14 pm I don't understand why the cost of the wall keeps coming up as I thought Mexico was paying for it. Why is that even a negotiation point? Oh, because it was total nonsense? Mark my words, as we get closer to 2/8, the funding discussions will ramp up again and it will all fall apart.

True enough. That fucking moron is going to throw a hand grenade into the converstaion and frack everyone. Guaranteed. In fact, they should have picked 2/9. If they shutdown again at least they can lock him in a room again since he hates working on the weekend.

They should have voted to fund through the 16th instead. I love the thought of him sitting inside the White House during Presidents Day weekend.

I hate the thought of him sitting in the White House.

Did you mean shitting on the White House?

would any wall-supporters here explain why they believe the wall is necessary? they don't even have to cite anything, just speak their opinion.

hitbyambulance wrote: ↑Wed Jan 24, 2018 7:52 pm would any wall-supporters here explain why they believe the wall is necessary? they don't even have to cite anything, just speak their opinion.

Because a border minefield is frowned upon.

Ah. Now "MAGA" means posting pics of immigrants being killed.

I think you've posted that one before. You must be real proud of it.

Holman wrote: ↑Wed Jan 24, 2018 8:16 pm Ah. Now "MAGA" means posting pics of immigrants being killed.

I think you've posted that one before. You must be real proud of it.

I like to think of him as either a Terrorist, Coyote, or drug runner.

Well, you spelled terrorist correctly at least.

em2nought wrote: ↑Wed Jan 24, 2018 8:28 pm

Holman wrote: ↑Wed Jan 24, 2018 8:16 pm Ah. Now "MAGA" means posting pics of immigrants being killed.

I think you've posted that one before. You must be real proud of it.

I like to think of him as either a Terrorist, Coyote, or drug runner.

Because thinking of him as an innocent child would bring you to close to admitting your prejudice?

em2nought, you're not really adding anything to the discussion with that photo.

It's not funny and not even shocking. It's just dumb (a minefield would be ineffective for anything but killing random individuals) and regurgitation of a racist "meme", regardless of your intent.

The most telling thing is that that's your response to an earnest question about a proposed wall.

Personally, I'd rather just give Israel a strip of our land along our entire southern border with Mexico, giving them a plan "B" for when Iran nukes their current location.

Looks like 1.8 million future democrat indoctrinated voters is being offered on the table, winning not!

I don't really give a crap about the wall, except for the cost. If the GOP and the people who voted them into the monopoly want to waste a ton of money on the wall, it's what we as a nation voted for (even if it's a colossally stupid waste of money, and won't actually do much). However, I want a funding source. The GOP doesn't get to put everything they want on the credit card and say that tax cuts will pay for it, or bypass paygo and rip the funds out of social security/medicare.

Why isn't there a gofundme for it?

em2nought wrote: ↑Thu Jan 25, 2018 9:01 pm Personally, I'd rather just give Israel a strip of our land along our entire southern border with Mexico, giving them a plan "B" for when Iran nukes their current location.

Looks like 1.8 million future democrat indoctrinated voters is being offered on the table, winning not!

so your solution is to have the jews pay for it instead of Mexico?...

Pyperkub wrote: ↑Thu Jan 25, 2018 9:21 pm I don't really give a crap about the wall, except for the cost. If the GOP and the people who voted them into the monopoly want to waste a ton of money on the wall, it's what we as a nation voted for (even if it's a colossally stupid waste of money, and won't actually do much). However, I want a funding source. The GOP doesn't get to put everything they want on the credit card and say that tax cuts will pay for it, or bypass paygo and rip the funds out of social security/medicare.

Why isn't there a gofundme for it?

I don't really care about the cost. What's another $25B. I care about the impact the construction will have on the environment and those who live in the way.

I do care about the cost, because we know damn well that the GOP will find the money by cutting assistance programs for poor folks and urban areas.

Chaz wrote: ↑Thu Jan 25, 2018 9:48 pm I do care about the cost, because we know damn well that the GOP will find the money by cutting assistance programs for poor folks and urban areas.

This. So damn much this.

Go ahead, guess who said, "I'd love to see a shutdown", as the deadline approaches. Additionally:

If lawmakers do not agree to an immigration deal before Thursday's government funding deadline, Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) has said he would hold an open debate on the issue.

It's pretty bad when a member of Trump's own party, Barbara Comstock, tells him a shutdown is a bad idea and he just shot her down.

pr0ner wrote: ↑Tue Feb 06, 2018 4:54 pm It's pretty bad when a member of Trump's own party, Barbara Comstock, tells him a shutdown is a bad idea and he just shot her down.

In Trump's defense, she was a woman talking in his vicinity.