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Re: Shutdown

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 4:25 pm
by Alefroth
National park site in Trump hotel manages to find funding to stay open.

Re: Shutdown

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 4:26 pm
by Remus West
malchior wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 4:11 pm
Seems smart to get the hell out of dodge before hundreds of thousands of people don't get paid because their President and the entire GOP are garbage.

Don't let the assholes in the Senate off that easy. They could put a bill to reopen the government on tRump's desk anytime. Mc just has to let it go to a vote and he refuses to do that. He (again) demonstrates that he is the biggest piece of shit in our government and has been for quite some time now. Truly he is the more evil if only because he is actually competent.

Re: Shutdown

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:57 pm
by Blackhawk
Eh. Those who weren't going to do anything were already 'off' for the weekend. Those who are actually trying are probably getting more done outside of the wheel-spinning sessions than in them.

Re: Shutdown

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 6:02 pm
by Enough
Alefroth wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 4:25 pm
National park site in Trump hotel manages to find funding to stay open.
As I mentioned in my screed earlier today on this there is now a FOIA request so we can hopefully get more info on why.

Member berries want to know if anyone members when we all cared about ANWR and any attempt to open it to exploration was front page news for days? I member. Member when the Pebble Mine was also important news? I member.

Maybe two of the most significant natural areas in the USA are now going to get seriously hammered and thanks to Mr. I dominate all the news cycles with my buffoonery, nobody is paying a damn bit of attention.

Re: Shutdown

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 6:14 pm
by Pyperkub
Reminder that it's McConnell who is enabling Trump to get away with his toddler-esque temper tantrums with no responsibility:
Moments ago on the Senate floor, Ben Cardin asked for unanimous consent from all senators to pass one of the House-approved bills to reopen the government. Mitch McConnell objected, calling the House-passed bills "an absolutely pointless show vote." Via ABC

Re: Shutdown

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:18 pm
by pr0ner
The Senate did unanimously pass a bill guaranteeing backpay to any federal worker furloughed by this shutdown, and apparently Trump said he'll sign it, so at least there's that?

Interesting Tweet:


Re: Shutdown

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:43 pm
by Holman
If Twitter is any guide, prominent Fox News personalities are all-in on Trump declaring a national emergency, so I assume we'll see that tomorrow.

Re: Shutdown

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:46 pm
by Skinypupy
He's looking at taking it from disaster relief funds, including funds allocated for reconstruction in Puerto Rico.
President Donald Trump has been briefed on a plan that would use the Army Corps of Engineers and a portion of $13.9 billion of Army Corps funding to build 315 miles of barrier along the U.S.-Mexico border, according to three U.S. officials familiar with the briefing.

The money was set aside to fund projects all over the country including storm-damaged areas of Puerto Rico through fiscal year 2020, but the checks have not been written yet and, under an emergency declaration, the president could take the money from these civil works projects and use it to build the border wall, said officials familiar with the briefing and two congressional sources.

Under the proposal, the officials said, Trump could dip into the $2.4 billion allocated to projects in California, including flood prevention and protection projects along the Yuba River Basin and the Folsom Dam, as well as the $2.5 billion set aside for reconstruction projects in Puerto Rico, which is still recovering from Hurricane Maria.
What a dick.

Re: Shutdown

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:47 pm
by malchior
Especially with prominent allies calling for him to abuse his power. Graham has basically thrown in the towel on his reputation. It was hanging by a thread but ... another sycophant to the worst President in American history. What a dope.

Subtext: "This shutdown is killing us so please do something drastic to get us out of the corner you painted yourself into."


Re: Shutdown

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:50 pm
by Alefroth
Enough wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 6:02 pm
Alefroth wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 4:25 pm
National park site in Trump hotel manages to find funding to stay open.
As I mentioned in my screed earlier today on this there is now a FOIA request so we can hopefully get more info on why.
I wasn't ignoring your screed, I just hadn't read all the way to the end yet :)

I imagine a FOIA request is something that doesn't get done during a shutdown.

Re: Shutdown

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:21 pm
by pr0ner
Dobbs smash!


Re: Shutdown

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:22 pm
by Smoove_B
Are they all trying to bait Trump into pursuing this ridiculous course of action so the Senate doesn't look complicit in helping him do nothing?

Mueller...please...burn the GOP to the motherfucking ground.

Re: Shutdown

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:46 pm
by Skinypupy
On the bright side, just think of all the new avenues this path opens up when Trump is out of the White House.

- Too many people are dying for lack of health care. DECLARE A NATIONAL EMERGENCY TO FUND MEDICAID FOR ALL!
- Too many people are dying from gun violence. DECLARE A NATIONAL EMERGENCY TO FUND RESEARCH AND OPTIONS FOR REDUCING GUN VIOLENCE!
- Too much damage is being done to the planet due to fossil fuels. DECLARE A NATIONAL EMERGENCY TO FUND CLEAN ENERGY!
- Too many people dying from opiods. DECLARE A NATIONAL EMERGENCY FOR FREE TREATMENT OPTIONS!

The possibilities are endless!

Re: Shutdown

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:48 pm
by Zaxxon
It's actually quite humorous, as each of your examples is objectively a far greater and more immediate emergency than border crossings.

I look forward to our next President pursuing that strategy

Re: Shutdown

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:51 pm
by GreenGoo
pr0ner wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:21 pm
Dobbs smash!
That is fucking insane. The Dems have had the house for what? A week and a half? For 2 years the reps have had full control of 2 branches of government? It's the dems fault that the president is going to abuse the power of the office to build a boondoggle that no one wants, not even the reps?

Dobbs has got to go. He might as well be Alex Jones at this point. Is he on the administration's payroll?

Re: Shutdown

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:27 pm
by malchior
GreenGoo wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:51 pm
pr0ner wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:21 pm
Dobbs smash!
That is fucking insane. The Dems have had the house for what? A week and a half? For 2 years the reps have had full control of 2 branches of government? It's the dems fault that the president is going to abuse the power of the office to build a boondoggle that no one wants, not even the reps?

Dobbs has got to go. He might as well be Alex Jones at this point. Is he on the administration's payroll?
It is all more hilarious considering what the GOP did to Obama for 6 *years*.

Re: Shutdown

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:16 am
by Max Peck
Let Them Eat Vacation Days
This evening on the PBS Newshour, the chair of the White House’s Council of Economic Advisors, Kevin Hassett, said this about workers who are going without pay as the government shutdown nears its fourth week:
Right now about 25% of government workers are furloughed. Which means that they are not allowed to go to work.

But then when the shutdown ends, they go back to work, and they get their back pay.

A huge share of government workers were going to take vacation days, say between Christmas and New Year’s.

And then we have a shutdown, and so they can’t go to work. So then they have the vacation, but they don’t have to use their vacation days. And then they come back, and they get their back pay.

Then in some sense they’re better off.
So it's really just a free (eventually) paid vacation for all those federal layabouts. :coffee:

Re: Shutdown

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:51 am
by $iljanus
Max Peck wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:16 am
Let Them Eat Vacation Days
This evening on the PBS Newshour, the chair of the White House’s Council of Economic Advisors, Kevin Hassett, said this about workers who are going without pay as the government shutdown nears its fourth week:
Right now about 25% of government workers are furloughed. Which means that they are not allowed to go to work.

But then when the shutdown ends, they go back to work, and they get their back pay.

A huge share of government workers were going to take vacation days, say between Christmas and New Year’s.

And then we have a shutdown, and so they can’t go to work. So then they have the vacation, but they don’t have to use their vacation days. And then they come back, and they get their back pay.

Then in some sense they’re better off.
So it's really just a free (eventually) paid vacation for all those federal layabouts. :coffee:
Hassett, you dumb fuck. You usually get your paycheck during your vacation allowing you to do the usual mundane things like pay for food or not get behind on your mortgage or other bills. I hope someone called him out over such an idiotic statement.

Re: Shutdown

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:08 am
by Paingod
I like Kamala Harris repeatedly calling it the President's "Vanity Project"


Re: Shutdown

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:38 am
by LordMortis
Whatever Dobbs has become was pretty much where I decided I don't want Fox to get money from me any more. I really *do* need to cut the cord. I was doing the legwork over Christmas and then I got sick and nothing mattered any more. (Though my initial research shows that Comcast may have an opportunity for me to strangle the cord instead of cutting it completely)

Re: Shutdown

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:55 am
by LawBeefaroni
Max Peck wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:16 am
Let Them Eat Vacation Days
This evening on the PBS Newshour, the chair of the White House’s Council of Economic Advisors, Kevin Hassett, said this about workers who are going without pay as the government shutdown nears its fourth week:
Right now about 25% of government workers are furloughed. Which means that they are not allowed to go to work.

But then when the shutdown ends, they go back to work, and they get their back pay.

A huge share of government workers were going to take vacation days, say between Christmas and New Year’s.

And then we have a shutdown, and so they can’t go to work. So then they have the vacation, but they don’t have to use their vacation days. And then they come back, and they get their back pay.

Then in some sense they’re better off.
So it's really just a free (eventually) paid vacation for all those federal layabouts. :coffee:
I mentioned it earlier, that's what the FBI guy was telling me. He's "off" and will eventually get paid for fixing his house and hanging out with his kids and whatnot. He has colleagues who have to work and will eventually get paid for working. It causes a bit of tension and resentment.

Obviously it's more applicable to the whiter collar guys who don't have to worry about bills week to week.

Re: Shutdown

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:00 am
by YellowKing
I'm still struggling to understand how you can use "emergency" funds to build a wall that will take years to construct. Isn't the definition of an "emergency" something you have to do like RIGHT NOW? :grund:

Re: Shutdown

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:02 am
by Skinypupy
YellowKing wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:00 am
I'm still struggling to understand how you can use "emergency" funds to build a wall that will take years to construct. settle all the eminent domain lawsuits, environmental impact studies, and contracting processes required before construction can even begin.
FTFY. :)

I'm still very surprised they're pursuing this course though. Trump's an idiot, but McConnell is smart enough to know that the pendulum is likely to swing back the other way, and setting this precedent could be dangerous for him. One theory is that they are pushing Trump to do this because it gives them a "get out of the shutdown free" card, knowing that it'll get stopped by the courts

Re: Shutdown

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:08 am
by Smoove_B
It's a win/win no matter what. If he enacts the powers and somehow magically it works (it won't), he wins. If the courts strike him down (they will), he gets to demonize the activist judges that Obama appointed and Hillary supported. He gets to claim he tried to fulfill his campaign promise, but the Democrats don't want border security and they stopped him. Donate Trump 2020 to fight them!

The worst part of all this is that good old Mitch McConnell gets to escape completely unscathed as if he wasn't instrumental in forcing the President's hand. Once again, maintaining his status as most evil elected official.

Re: Shutdown

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:44 am
by El Guapo
It's crazy, but a part of me is rooting for Trump to do the emergency powers option, because that seems like the quickest way to end this shutdown. Like, if he did that today, it's plausible that I could be back at work on Monday or Tuesday (with a wild card in that I'm not totally sure how Democrats would respond, beyond filing a lawsuit).

Good that the backpay bill seems to be moving, at least.

Re: Shutdown

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:07 am
by pr0ner
I wonder if Miami International Airport having to close down a terminal due to TSA absences will help push things along. Airports closing has to be one of the tipping points, right?


Re: Shutdown

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:12 am
by Skinypupy
FWIW, TSA says that isn't actually happening.

Whether that's true, or they got in scramble mode to cover their asses after word got out remains to be seen.

Re: Shutdown

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:25 am
by LordMortis
Skinypupy wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:02 am
YellowKing wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:00 am
I'm still struggling to understand how you can use "emergency" funds to build a wall that will take years to construct. settle all the eminent domain lawsuits, environmental impact studies, and contracting processes required before construction can even begin.
FTFY. :)

I'm still very surprised they're pursuing this course though. Trump's an idiot, but McConnell is smart enough to know that the pendulum is likely to swing back the other way, and setting this precedent could be dangerous for him. One theory is that they are pushing Trump to do this because it gives them a "get out of the shutdown free" card, knowing that it'll get stopped by the courts
Didn't stop them from proceeding last time and the fall out is still happening more'n ten years later. That last phase (of fencing) was mostly done in two years, eminent domain lawsuits, access, environment, and local utilities, etc... be damned. Or at least that was the case from my reading. "Obama's Wall" should be serving as an advisory of what not to do. Like for once, you could "thanks Obama" and have it come close to being reality, rather taking it going all Tim Allen "so I fixed it" on it.

If McConnell has shown me one thing over the last decade, it's that he has not concern for precedent. His only concern is preserving and advancing power. Worst American. I have no idea if he is beholden to anyone or if he is simply GOP uber alles but the only consistencies he has are "Will the people of Kentucky keep my in power? Will exercising my power shut down opposition to the GOP?" The rule of law is a scape goat for that piece of shit. It's not something he'll ever adhere to.

Re: Shutdown

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:43 am
by Jeff V
El Guapo wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:44 am
(with a wild card in that I'm not totally sure how Democrats would respond, beyond filing a lawsuit).
They should respond by passing a budget that removes $5B from the Army Corps of Engineers, since they appear to have just that much in excess cash in their budget. It can better be used elsewhere....say, DACA funding.

Re: Shutdown

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:37 pm
by Smoove_B
You can see the panic and/or logic short-circuit actually happening in the Alabama representative's eyes:


CNN: If the president can declare a national emergency to build a border wall, couldn't a Democrat do the same to address climate change?

Re: Shutdown

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:51 pm
by pr0ner
Smoove_B wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:37 pm
CNN: If the president can declare a national emergency to build a border wall, couldn't a Democrat do the same to address climate change?
Brown people entering the US = national emergency!

Something that will drown the coastal elites and burn up California = no emergency!

Re: Shutdown

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:20 pm
by GreenGoo
Dude is like, National Security!

But that's not the deal. The deal is National Emergency.

Re: Shutdown

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:32 pm
by Smoove_B
At least some of them are self-aware. Not that it matters.


My side would be storming the White House if Barack Obama ever thought about declaring a national emergency.

Re: Shutdown

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:36 pm
by pr0ner
Joe Walsh seems to oscillate between being self-aware of what's going on with the GOP and totally batshit insane about GOP subjects on a fairly regular basis.

Re: Shutdown

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:45 pm
by Paingod
Having the same kind of identity crisis so many Republicans should be having? Or his his chip malfunctioning?

Re: Shutdown

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:04 pm
by Octavious
We all know that the Dems aren't going to cave at this point. Why would they? So just declare the damn emergency so that it gets ripped apart in court. This whole thing is insane. :grund: I could do it, I should do it, I'm almost 100% sure I'll do it. Seriously that's the master negotiator? :tjg: I want a damn time machine to warp to whenever this ahole no longer exists.

Re: Shutdown

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:15 pm
by Remus West
Octavious wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:04 pm
We all know that the Dems aren't going to cave at this point. Why would they? So just declare the damn emergency so that it gets ripped apart in court. This whole thing is insane. :grund: I could do it, I should do it, I'm almost 100% sure I'll do it. Seriously that's the master negotiator? :tjg: I want a damn time machine to warp to whenever this ahole no longer exists.
I would rather risk the removal him from before his existance started. And MM. And Newt for that matter since he seemed to start the entire "we are not going to find working solutions we are just going to demand our way" behavior. Although others would probably rise in their place and do the same terrible stuff.

Re: Shutdown

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:17 pm
by Skinypupy
Smoove_B wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:32 pm
At least some of them are self-aware. Not that it matters.


My side would be storming the White House if Barack Obama ever thought about declaring a national emergency.
It has nothing to do with whether or not it's the right thing to do, it's simply a matter of who does it.

Huh, they usually don't go so far as to outright admit that.

Re: Shutdown

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:31 pm
by Enough
So the BLM is not just continuing oil leasing on ANWR, apparently even though small business loans are frozen at the moment, we have plenty of time to continue oil and gas leasing activities around the nation.
The Trump administration’s prioritization of energy exploration means the oil and gas business, one of the most heavily regulated industries in the United States, says it has yet to feel any real consequence from the shutdown.

“To this point, we have not seen any major effects of the shutdown on our industry,” Mike Sommers, president and chief executive of the oil and gas business’s chief lobbying organization, the American Petroleum Institute, told reporters Tuesday.

The department’s Bureau of Land Management, for example, has accepted and published 22 new drilling permit applications in Alaska, North Dakota, New Mexico and Oklahoma between the start of the shutdown and Wednesday afternoon. Officials said they did not anticipate any delays in the processing of either permit applications or requests for inspections of drilling operations on federal land.

The Bureau of Energy Management, which gets a large portion of its budget from fees, is operating at near full strength. Nearly every job is exempt “in order to comply with the administration’s America First energy strategy” and expand leases to the oil and gas industry -- “work must continue toward” selling leases that could lead to drilling on the outer continental shelf, according to the agency’s contingency plan.

But elsewhere the department says it is not even accepting other sorts of filings — such as public-records requests from journalists, activists and other members of the public made under the Freedom of Information Act — due to the shutdown.

“It seems that the oil companies are getting services from the Department of the Interior when the public is not,” said Kelly Fuller, energy and mining campaign director at the Western Watershed Project, an advocacy group.

The department is also pressing ahead with its goal of preparing the Alaskan Arctic for more oil and gas drilling. The department decided to go ahead with four public listening sessions about BLM’s push to define what activities can be permitted at the National Petroleum Reserve-Alaska because doing so would help the scoping process move forward. The sessions, which were slated to wrap up before Interior stops accepting comments on Jan. 22, had been postponed because of the Nov. 30 earthquake that hit Alaska.

Re: Shutdown

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:43 pm
by ImLawBoy
pr0ner wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:36 pm
Joe Walsh seems to oscillate between being self-aware of what's going on with the GOP and totally batshit insane about GOP subjects on a fairly regular basis.
My guess is he's setting himself up for a comeback as a more mavericky than all the other mavericks put together candidate. He'd still vote for the conservative/GOP agenda, of course (probably even more in lock step than McCain or Flake), but he'd issue withering commentary about both sides while doing it.