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Shutdown

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LordMortis
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Re: Shutdown

Post by LordMortis » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:25 am

malchior wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:55 am
One more post. It looks like McConnell's strategy works again. Probably because Americans are blithering idiots who don't understand how Congress works. The 30% are obviously deplorables but 20% think it is 'the system'. Looks like we're doomed to a long shutdown. :pray:

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It does with my parents. They blame Trump but they blame Pelosi as forcing him to do it (and therefore blame Pelosi as being the unreasonable one). I ranted about McConnell shutting down every discussion and ever bill for way too long at them.

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Holman
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Re: Shutdown

Post by Holman » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:51 am





Awesome sentiment! Come for the apocalyptic threats and militarization, stay for the source of the quote...
The Trump portrait of an unsustainable Border Crisis is dead on. “In the last two years, ICE officers made 266,000 arrests of aliens with Criminal Records, including those charged or convicted of 100,000 assaults, 30,000 sex crimes & 4000 violent killings.” America’s Southern.... ....Border is eventually going to be militarized and defended or the United States, as we have known it, is going to cease to exist...And Americans will not go gentle into that good night. Patrick Buchanan. The great people of our Country demand proper Border Security NOW!
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.

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GreenGoo
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Re: Shutdown

Post by GreenGoo » Mon Jan 14, 2019 12:11 pm

malchior wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:46 am
GreenGoo wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:52 pm
Fox, in an attempt to stoke fires of unrest towards the Dems, is reporting on the outrageous activities of the Dems during the shutdown.

Apparently some have gone to see Hamilton while the government is shut down.

The.

Horror.
It is a bit more than that. A relatively big group is down in Puerto Rico with a small army of lobbyists on a junket. Not a great look from a PR viewpoint but also probably not much of a story outside a shutdown.
They need to fire their headline writer then.

I'm no fan of lobbyists and government socializing in the first place, but I fall to see how this is meaningful outside of that distasteful relationship. This is business as usual, shutdown or no. I realize the shutdown is significant hardship for many, but everyone else's lives don't come to a stop just because.

Does anyone believe the Dems aren't making good faith efforts to end the shutdown?

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stessier
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Re: Shutdown

Post by stessier » Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:34 pm

So how does this end? At some point, there is going to have to be some negotiation.

I've seen articles suggesting DACA-for-the-wall (well, $5 billion worth anyway). I hate the wall and think DACA isn't enough. What else could they ask for that they could reasonably get? Rolling back tax breaks or fixing Obamacare don't seem reasonable due to all the other legislation that would be required.
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malchior
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Re: Shutdown

Post by malchior » Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:47 pm

stessier wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:34 pm
So how does this end? At some point, there is going to have to be some negotiation.
I wouldn't be so sure. Normally this would be reasonable thinking but you have three actors seemingly immune to criticism running the show here. Trump has his unbreakable base and doesn't give a fuck. McConnell is all rolled up in his turtle shell. He is hiding in the dark by avoiding putting pressure on his Senators. He is doing that by blocking all action and the American people are fairly unaware of that. He knows he isn't in any particular danger so nothing will likely move him personally off that mark. And lastly, Pelosi has the strongest case to do jack shit for him based on the last election. On top she honestly can't compromise as a matter of principle and is generally a long-term person anyway. Add that up and you have no way out via the normal mechanisms.

So we'll likely need painful failures to move people off the sidelines. Will that happen in the next 2-4 weeks? Likely. Eventually the pay situation will come to a head and 'essential' functions will start to grind to a halt. Best bet is still the airports.

To mitigate this, Mulvaney is pulling out every stop to avoid impact to 'everyday' people. Bringing in people to process tax returns, they are offering a bonus to some TSA agents folks, some additional folks at IRS to help the financial industry move mortgages along, and several other measures to contain damage from the shutdown. However, this introduces systemic risk. What if there is a major safety failure in transportation or food supply? They are trading risk for political gain. And it could blow up easily in their faces. We'll have to see.
I've seen articles suggesting DACA-for-the-wall (well, $5 billion worth anyway). I hate the wall and think DACA isn't enough. What else could they ask for that they could reasonably get? Rolling back tax breaks or fixing Obamacare don't seem reasonable due to all the other legislation that would be required.
I will maintain until it happens that there is no trade for the wall. It'd have to be something massive to get wall. And the outlines of anything we've heard don't even come close.

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Re: Shutdown

Post by Smoove_B » Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:49 pm

We don't negotiate with terrorists - and that's exactly what Trump and McConnell are doing by holding federal workers hostage. Trump is an a-hole for embracing a shutdown and Mitch McConnell is a a-hole for enabling Trump to do it. F them. This could end with Mitch sending over the funding bill for Trump to veto and then Congress overriding it. But that would put country above party and the GOP can't have that - especially when they can somehow continue to blame Democrats for what's happening right now.

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Re: Shutdown

Post by malchior » Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:51 pm

Smoove_B wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:49 pm
We don't negotiate with terrorists - and that's exactly what Trump and McConnell are doing by holding federal workers hostage. F them. This could end with Mitch sending over the funding bill for Trump to veto and then Congress overriding it. But that would put country above party and the GOP can't have that - especially when they can somehow continue to blame Democrats for what's happening right now.
There aren't votes for a veto. At least not yet. I posit McConnell would do that to thumb his nose at Trump if he did. McConnell's strategy as usual is cagey and borderline perfect...for himself and the GOP caucus.

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Re: Shutdown

Post by Kraken » Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:52 pm

stessier wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:34 pm
So how does this end? At some point, there is going to have to be some negotiation.
I think the Dems just continue to double-dog-dare him to declare his state of emergency, since that's the politically stupidest thing he could do.

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Re: Shutdown

Post by Skinypupy » Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:28 pm

malchior wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:47 pm
Best bet is still the airports.
I'm scheduled to fly out for my annual heavy metal cruise on Jan 30. I have a terrible feeling that this shutdown is going to fuck that entire thing up. I've already started exploring options for driving from Salt Lake to Ft. Lauderdale (38 hours, btw) to get there.

As if I needed another reason to despise Trump.
“Don’t tickle the wall clown.” - MST3K

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Re: Shutdown

Post by Paingod » Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:33 pm

More than ever, now is the time to stand by the causes you believe in; donate and support to keep America great.
Reproductive Rights, Environmental Defense, Civil Liberties, LGBTQ Awareness, Immigration Rights
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malchior
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Re: Shutdown

Post by malchior » Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:33 pm

Skinypupy wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:28 pm
malchior wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:47 pm
Best bet is still the airports.
I'm scheduled to fly out for my annual heavy metal cruise on Jan 30. I have a terrible feeling that this shutdown is going to fuck that entire thing up. I've already started exploring options for driving from Salt Lake to Ft. Lauderdale (38 hours, btw) to get there.

As if I needed another reason to despise Trump.
I'm supposed to head to India the 2nd of Feb. I am on the opposite side - an excuse would be wonderful. Joking aside it is the weakest link. TSA agents aren't well compensated. They don't have reserves to survive this on their own. At some point it will break down.

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Re: Shutdown

Post by Jeff V » Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:21 pm

stessier wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:34 pm
So how does this end? At some point, there is going to have to be some negotiation.

I've seen articles suggesting DACA-for-the-wall (well, $5 billion worth anyway). I hate the wall and think DACA isn't enough. What else could they ask for that they could reasonably get? Rolling back tax breaks or fixing Obamacare don't seem reasonable due to all the other legislation that would be required.
The thing is, the cost of completing Trump's monument to stupidity is projected to be close to $50B, not $5B. Likely $5B gets the thing designed, and maybe a fence post or two planted. So as soon as he burns through that $5B, it'll be another $5B and another until he's out of office one way or the other and all of that money becomes wasted because the dems are never going to finish it. Funding $5B for "border security" OTOH is something they could absolutely do since it would ostensibly be spent much more intelligently on something much more effective than an archaic wall.

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Re: Shutdown

Post by Pyperkub » Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:45 pm

Jeff V wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:21 pm
stessier wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:34 pm
So how does this end? At some point, there is going to have to be some negotiation.

I've seen articles suggesting DACA-for-the-wall (well, $5 billion worth anyway). I hate the wall and think DACA isn't enough. What else could they ask for that they could reasonably get? Rolling back tax breaks or fixing Obamacare don't seem reasonable due to all the other legislation that would be required.
The thing is, the cost of completing Trump's monument to stupidity is projected to be close to $50B, not $5B. Likely $5B gets the thing designed, and maybe a fence post or two planted. So as soon as he burns through that $5B, it'll be another $5B and another until he's out of office one way or the other and all of that money becomes wasted because the dems are never going to finish it. Funding $5B for "border security" OTOH is something they could absolutely do since it would ostensibly be spent much more intelligently on something much more effective than an archaic wall.
I had heard $70-$80 billion. And I doubt that includes ongoing maintenance (staffing? WTF is that going to cost on an annual basis?, Repairs?, Annual Maintenance and Checks, etc?). Does it even include the Eminent Domain purchases of the land? Anyone know of a good source for what the *actual* costs are going to look like? Both Capital expenses and Ongoing estimates?
There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.

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LordMortis
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Re: Shutdown

Post by LordMortis » Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:54 pm

Pyperkub wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:45 pm
Anyone know of a good source for what the *actual* costs are going to look like? Both Capital expenses and Ongoing estimates?
We have past record as an indicator of future performance. This is for half the length, a lesser project where problems of emmint domain lawsuits are still on going a decade later.
it spent approximately $2.3 billion to deploy border fencing along the southwest border, and CBP will need to spend a substantial amount to sustain these investments over their lifetimes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secure_Fence_Act_of_2006


Erection of the fence

By April 2009, DHS had erected about 613 miles (985 km) of new pedestrian fencing and vehicle barriers along the southwest border from California to Texas.[7] Delays frustrated some, such as Senator Jim DeMint, Republican of South Carolina, who in 2010 introduced legislation seeking to require completion of the 700-mile-long, double-layered fence. (DHS had since 2007 begun "to shift its focus to erecting a 'virtual fence' along the 2,000-mile border, using sensors, cameras and other high-tech equipment to prevent illegal crossings".) DeMint's legislation was defeated in a 52–45 Senate vote in 2010.[8]

By May 2011, DHS reported completing 649 miles of fencing (99.5% of the 652 miles planned). The barrier was made up of 299 miles of vehicle barriers and 350 miles of pedestrian fence.[6] The fencing includes a steel fence (varying in height between 18 and 26 feet) that divides the border towns of Nogales, Arizona in the U.S. and Nogales, Sonora in Mexico.[9] A 2016 report by the Government Accountability Office confirmed that the government had completed the fence by 2015.[10] A 2017 GAO report noted: "In addition to the 654 miles of primary fencing, CBP has also deployed additional layers of pedestrian fencing behind the primary border fencing, including 37 miles of secondary fencing and 14 miles of tertiary fencing."[11]
Cost

Although the 2006 law authorized construction of a fence, Congress initially did not fully appropriate funds for it (see authorization-appropriation process). "Congress put aside $1.4 billion for the fence, but the whole cost, including maintenance, was pegged at $50 billion over 25 years, according to analyses at the time."[10]

A 2017 GAO report noted: "According to CBP, from fiscal year 2007 through 2015, it spent approximately $2.3 billion to deploy border fencing along the southwest border, and CBP will need to spend a substantial amount to sustain these investments over their lifetimes. CBP did not provide a current life-cycle costs estimate to maintain pedestrian and vehicle fencing, however, in 2009 CBP estimated that maintaining fencing would cost more than $1 billion over 20 years."[12]

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Re: Shutdown

Post by Jeff V » Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:06 pm

Pyperkub wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:45 pm
Jeff V wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:21 pm
stessier wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:34 pm
So how does this end? At some point, there is going to have to be some negotiation.

I've seen articles suggesting DACA-for-the-wall (well, $5 billion worth anyway). I hate the wall and think DACA isn't enough. What else could they ask for that they could reasonably get? Rolling back tax breaks or fixing Obamacare don't seem reasonable due to all the other legislation that would be required.
The thing is, the cost of completing Trump's monument to stupidity is projected to be close to $50B, not $5B. Likely $5B gets the thing designed, and maybe a fence post or two planted. So as soon as he burns through that $5B, it'll be another $5B and another until he's out of office one way or the other and all of that money becomes wasted because the dems are never going to finish it. Funding $5B for "border security" OTOH is something they could absolutely do since it would ostensibly be spent much more intelligently on something much more effective than an archaic wall.
I had heard $70-$80 billion. And I doubt that includes ongoing maintenance (staffing? WTF is that going to cost on an annual basis?, Repairs?, Annual Maintenance and Checks, etc?). Does it even include the Eminent Domain purchases of the land? Anyone know of a good source for what the *actual* costs are going to look like? Both Capital expenses and Ongoing estimates?
I heard that within 5 years the annual maintenance cost will match the cost of building the damn thing. We'd be better off writing checks to each and every person in Mexico and asking then to stay there.

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Re: Shutdown

Post by stessier » Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:17 pm

Jeff V wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:21 pm
stessier wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:34 pm
So how does this end? At some point, there is going to have to be some negotiation.

I've seen articles suggesting DACA-for-the-wall (well, $5 billion worth anyway). I hate the wall and think DACA isn't enough. What else could they ask for that they could reasonably get? Rolling back tax breaks or fixing Obamacare don't seem reasonable due to all the other legislation that would be required.
The thing is, the cost of completing Trump's monument to stupidity is projected to be close to $50B, not $5B. Likely $5B gets the thing designed, and maybe a fence post or two planted. So as soon as he burns through that $5B, it'll be another $5B and another until he's out of office one way or the other and all of that money becomes wasted because the dems are never going to finish it. Funding $5B for "border security" OTOH is something they could absolutely do since it would ostensibly be spent much more intelligently on something much more effective than an archaic wall.
Well, yeah, that's our side's view. The other side wants the wall. In a perfect world, we'd compromise by giving $5 Billion for border security and everyone is disgruntled but achieved a bit of their goal. But if they hold fast to The Wall or nothing, then the Democrats should try and get something that they want in exchange. It basic negotiating.

I think he is mercurial enough that he might do it on the right day - as long as he could claim a clear victory.
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Jaymann
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Re: Shutdown

Post by Jaymann » Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:29 pm

Wait, wait, I got it! Democrats will approve building the wall if Trump resigns from office. Win-win!
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Re: Shutdown

Post by gilraen » Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:48 pm

Pyperkub wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:45 pm
Does it even include the Eminent Domain purchases of the land? Anyone know of a good source for what the *actual* costs are going to look like?
Exactly. There are still several dozen lawsuits dragging on from Bush's 2006 attempt to build fences in certain places along the border; and most of that was already on federal land! This would be thousands and thousands of lawsuits - not just from landowners, but also from companies and Native tribes. $5 billion wouldn't even be enough to buy out the land and pay the lawyers.

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Re: Shutdown

Post by malchior » Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:45 pm

The land and water access + right of way issues are a big part of why every 'border' Congressperson and the population there itself are overwhelmingly against 'wall'.

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Fireball
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Re: Shutdown

Post by Fireball » Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:53 pm

stessier wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:34 pm
So how does this end? At some point, there is going to have to be some negotiation.
To be honest, I think some large group of unpaid workers will need to walk off the job and derail a major industry to make Trump blink. He's gone well beyond rational at this point. TSA agents could probably end this thing in a week if a large enough majority of them refused to come in to work. I'm not sure how strong their union contract is to protect their jobs in such a situation, but stopping airline travel would likely break Trump.

Democrats in the House are adamant that they won't endorse Trump's hostage taking by engaging in negotiations while a large part of the government is in shutdown.

I'd love to see Trump come under enough pressure that he not only signs a bill to reopen the government, but that said bill also includes provisions to prevent future shutdowns, but that's probably not something we could hash out in this timetable.
Wed Oct 20, 2004 1:17 am
Zarathud: The sad thing is that Barak Obama is a very intelligent and articulate person, even when you disagree with his views it's clear that he's very thoughtful. I would have loved to see Obama in a real debate.
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Re: Shutdown

Post by milo » Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:25 pm

Why would that make Trump blink?

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Fireball
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Re: Shutdown

Post by Fireball » Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:35 pm

The risk of an economic free fall would become immense. Either he'd blink, or McConnell would.
Wed Oct 20, 2004 1:17 am
Zarathud: The sad thing is that Barak Obama is a very intelligent and articulate person, even when you disagree with his views it's clear that he's very thoughtful. I would have loved to see Obama in a real debate.
Me: Wait 12 years, when he runs for president. :-)

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Re: Shutdown

Post by Paingod » Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:03 am

Fireball wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:35 pm
Either he'd blink, or McConnell would.
Trump doesn't get the significance of his actions, and McConnell is a wax figurine of a human being animated by demonic possession. Neither has much talent blinking when it matters.
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Re: Shutdown

Post by Jeff V » Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:02 am

stessier wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:17 pm
as long as he could claim a clear victory.
And therein lies his biggest problem - there is no win unless the other guy loses. He simply does not believe in win-win propositions.

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Re: Shutdown

Post by El Guapo » Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:00 pm

There are really three plausible ways for the shutdown to end: (1) Trump basically caves, and they pass something that Trump can call a win; (2) Trump declares a national emergency to build the wall and then lets the government reopen; or (3) some grand bargain.

#3 seems super unlikely, because the Democrats would want a DACA deal as a minimum as part of that, and immigration is one area where it's unlikely for the Republican coalition to hold together.

#2 seemed pretty likely last week, but Republicans seem to be running away from it now (possibly because of the terrible polling on the issue). Never know when Trump will impulsively reverse course and do this, though.

My guess is that ultimately we wind up at #1. It will probably take a couple weeks, and the resolution will be sparked by something externally going majorly wrong (such as air travel starting to get severely messed up). Either people in the Trump administration or McConnell will finally lean on Trump to accept a mostly clean funding bill (upon threat of overriding a veto).

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Re: Shutdown

Post by GreenGoo » Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:16 pm

Well when they do pass something half assed, at least almost a million citizens will have been put through economic hardship for whatever meaningless agreement comes out of this.

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El Guapo
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Re: Shutdown

Post by El Guapo » Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:19 pm

GreenGoo wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:16 pm
Well when they do pass something half assed, at least almost a million citizens will have been put through economic hardship for whatever meaningless agreement comes out of this.
Yup. Good news is that Congress has (virtually unanimously) passed a bill guaranteeing back pay at the end of the shutdown (both for this and any future shutdowns), and all indications are that Trump is going to sign it (though I won't count on that until he actually does). So personally this is not a huge deal to me, as I have savings and I'll be fine, and ultimately get paid. But for others that's not the case. And this is going to cause various issues on the investigations that I'm working on. And on top of that it's all just incredibly stupid.

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Re: Shutdown

Post by GreenGoo » Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:21 pm

Both sides!

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Re: Shutdown

Post by Remus West » Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:27 pm

El Guapo wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:19 pm
And this is going to cause various issues on the investigations that I'm working on. And on top of that it's all just incredibly stupid.
This just made me wonder. What impact does the government shutdown have on Mueller?
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Re: Shutdown

Post by Paingod » Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:31 pm

The big bright side too, is that Trump is likely setting a record for shutdown length that will never be broken. Just look at that graph and Obama and Clinton's pathetic attempts at shutdowns. Unbreakable US record, baby! MAGA!
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Re: Shutdown

Post by pr0ner » Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:49 pm

Remus West wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:27 pm
El Guapo wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:19 pm
And this is going to cause various issues on the investigations that I'm working on. And on top of that it's all just incredibly stupid.
This just made me wonder. What impact does the government shutdown have on Mueller?
None at all.
Hodor.

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LordMortis
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Re: Shutdown

Post by LordMortis » Tue Jan 15, 2019 1:44 pm

This is still the Wall thread right?

https://theweek.com/speedreads/817669/r ... er-barrier

I'm just in love with headline is all
Right-wing provocateur goes to Nancy Pelosi's house and shows how easy it is to climb over a barrier

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LordMortis
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Re: Shutdown

Post by LordMortis » Tue Jan 15, 2019 4:07 pm

I really am stunned how Fucko can sit there day after day acting as a call screener for the President and be seen least to blame when he is the person literally least doing his job out of everyone involved. His job is to work with Congress to put a bill before the President. Not to determine what is and is not a waste of the President's time.

Why isn't the press hammering this every single day? Loudly. They're happy to pit Pelosi against Trump every day. They're ecstatic to talk about how AOC dances. But they shy away from keeping the magnifying glass on the machinations of the most powerful person in Congress, who has single handedly and proudly corrupted the Supreme Court by choosing when he wants to do his job and when he doesn't feel like it and doing so again now.

If ever there was argument for the emperor dissolving the Senate, McConnell would be the poster child.

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Re: Shutdown

Post by GreenGoo » Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:54 pm

It must be particularly frustrating for Americans to go through this knowing that border security is a bipartisan concern with heavy support from both sides of the aisle.

It kind of boggles the mind to see everything Obama had done, and to witness Congress agreeing on billions for border security, only to watch it all come crashing to a halt because the president watched Matt Damon in the Great Wall and thought it was a documentary.

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Re: Shutdown

Post by em2nought » Tue Jan 15, 2019 6:09 pm

Just hope a certain "somebody" doesn't read this article in Forbes about Spain's economy growing and unemployment falling while they basically had no government for ten months in 2016. :wink:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstal ... 2bd691b62c
LordMortis wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 1:44 pm
Right-wing provocateur goes to Nancy Pelosi's house and shows how easy it is to climb over a barrier
Nancy's barrier was more of a fence. :roll: She did have her door locked by the way. :mrgreen:

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Waiting for the tide to bring me a sail.

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GreenGoo
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Re: Shutdown

Post by GreenGoo » Tue Jan 15, 2019 6:23 pm

I'm sure the economy can add 2 million plus jobs to replace all the federal jobs just to keep employment level, then more to actually grow the economy, all the while having all the secondary and tertiary jobs that rely on federal dollars dry up as well.

If it weren't for all the hardship, I'd kinda enjoy the schadenfreude of watching you get what you wish for.

You have no idea how many "private" businesses rely on federal dollars to stay aloat, and that's before we even consider corporate handouts. Who the f**k is going to pay the private contractors to build your monument to stupidity on the southern border if the government is shutdown, deep thinker?

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Holman
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Re: Shutdown

Post by Holman » Tue Jan 15, 2019 6:39 pm

El Guapo wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:00 pm
There are really three plausible ways for the shutdown to end: (1) Trump basically caves, and they pass something that Trump can call a win; (2) Trump declares a national emergency to build the wall and then lets the government reopen; or (3) some grand bargain.

#3 seems super unlikely, because the Democrats would want a DACA deal as a minimum as part of that, and immigration is one area where it's unlikely for the Republican coalition to hold together.

#2 seemed pretty likely last week, but Republicans seem to be running away from it now (possibly because of the terrible polling on the issue). Never know when Trump will impulsively reverse course and do this, though.

My guess is that ultimately we wind up at #1. It will probably take a couple weeks, and the resolution will be sparked by something externally going majorly wrong (such as air travel starting to get severely messed up). Either people in the Trump administration or McConnell will finally lean on Trump to accept a mostly clean funding bill (upon threat of overriding a veto).
The danger is that, when #1 becomes inevitable, Trump will engineer a new and bigger crisis (e.g. firing the whole FBI, joining the Warsaw Pact) in order to distract coverage from it.
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.

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pr0ner
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Re: Shutdown

Post by pr0ner » Tue Jan 15, 2019 6:45 pm

Welp:

Hodor.

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Skinypupy
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Re: Shutdown

Post by Skinypupy » Tue Jan 15, 2019 6:45 pm

em2nought wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 6:09 pm
Just hope a certain "somebody" doesn't read this article in Forbes about Spain's economy growing and unemployment falling while they basically had no government for ten months in 2016. :wink:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstal ... 2bd691b62c
Let's be really clear what we're talking about here. During their period of no government, Spain's unemployment rate dropped from 20% to 18.9%, in a nation of 46 million people.

I'm sure that our country of 325 million with a current unemployment rate of 4% that has several major industries which are nearly 100% dependent on federal/defense spending will see exactly those same results if the government doesn't open, right? :roll:
“Don’t tickle the wall clown.” - MST3K

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Holman
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Re: Shutdown

Post by Holman » Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:41 pm

Forget it, skinypuppy. The Deplorables think government is unnecessary because it exists only to give food stamps to brown people.
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.

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