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Pictures and Videos for R&P

For discussion of religion and politics

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Xmann
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Re: Pictures and Videos for R&P

Post by Xmann » Sun Jan 20, 2019 1:43 am

That video breaks my heart.

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Re: Pictures and Videos for R&P

Post by Blackhawk » Sun Jan 20, 2019 2:59 am

Not just an elder, but a veteran and a pipe carrier, too. My native friends are losing their shit over this.
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Re: Pictures and Videos for R&P

Post by GreenGoo » Sun Jan 20, 2019 4:52 am

Fox news article was relatively accurate, discussing the catholic school and diocese apologizing, noting the school hoodies and shirts the kids were wearing etc.

Can you guess which detail was conspicuous in its absence? Sure you can. Not a single mention of the MAGA hats being worn and on prominent display in the photos they used for their article.

How odd.

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Re: Pictures and Videos for R&P

Post by malchior » Sun Jan 20, 2019 7:31 am

GreenGoo wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 4:52 am
Fox news article was relatively accurate, discussing the catholic school and diocese apologizing, noting the school hoodies and shirts the kids were wearing etc.

Can you guess which detail was conspicuous in its absence? Sure you can. Not a single mention of the MAGA hats being worn and on prominent display in the photos they used for their article.

How odd.
Let me guess they also failed to mention they were chanting 'Build the Wall'.

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Re: Pictures and Videos for R&P

Post by LordMortis » Sun Jan 20, 2019 9:53 am

Image

Even with a six legged Octopus. It's like she's watching.

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Re: Pictures and Videos for R&P

Post by Smoove_B » Sun Jan 20, 2019 11:17 am

Alefroth wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 1:38 am
Yep. The way to deal with a bully isn't with bullying.
Not surprisingly, the problem didn't start with the kids:



Nice to see that MAGA mindset comports with Helicopter/Snowplow parents too.

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Re: Pictures and Videos for R&P

Post by Z-Corn » Sun Jan 20, 2019 11:37 am

Alefroth wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 1:38 am

Yep. The way to deal with a bully isn't with bullying.
I agree. The way you deal with a bully is punch them right in the face and give them a good scar to remind them.

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Re: Pictures and Videos for R&P

Post by Skinypupy » Sun Jan 20, 2019 11:51 am

Smoove_B wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 11:17 am
Alefroth wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 1:38 am
Yep. The way to deal with a bully isn't with bullying.
Not surprisingly, the problem didn't start with the kids:



Nice to see that MAGA mindset comports with Helicopter/Snowplow parents too.
I’ll take “things that didn’t happen” for $100 Alex. The whole “black Muslims” thing, not the actual interview.

It does raise an interesting discussion though. When someone is walking around in public with the modern equivalent of a swastika armband, what level of shit should they reasonably expect to receive?
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Re: Pictures and Videos for R&P

Post by LordMortis » Sun Jan 20, 2019 11:58 am

Skinypupy wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 11:51 am
Smoove_B wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 11:17 am
Alefroth wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 1:38 am
Yep. The way to deal with a bully isn't with bullying.
Not surprisingly, the problem didn't start with the kids:



Nice to see that MAGA mindset comports with Helicopter/Snowplow parents too.
I’ll take “things that didn’t happen” for $100 Alex. The whole “black Muslims” thing, not the actual interview.

It does raise an interesting discussion though. When someone is walking around in public with the modern equivalent of a swastika armband, what level of shit should they reasonably expect to receive?

GMA seems to show it did. It's no excuse for the mob or for his behavior or for not having chaperones.



And douche child is mostly a victim of his own upbringing or so it would seem.

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Re: Pictures and Videos for R&P

Post by Skinypupy » Sun Jan 20, 2019 12:12 pm

Thanks for that, I hadn’t seen it.

Interesting that MAGA mom feels that what the “black Muslims” were doing was horrible and inappropriate, while simultaneously claiming that what her kids did was completely justified.
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Re: Pictures and Videos for R&P

Post by LordMortis » Sun Jan 20, 2019 12:30 pm

Skinypupy wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 12:12 pm
Thanks for that, I hadn’t seen it.

Interesting that MAGA mom feels that what the “black Muslims” were doing was horrible and inappropriate, while simultaneously claiming that what her kids did was completely justified.
That's sort of what I see. The GMA thing tempered my OUTRAGE but did not nullify it. There is some understanding to how the situation got be that way, but it still doesn't excuse the actions of the kid or crowd, a la Gillette commercial about what we want our future to be.

I almost have more sympathy for the kid if that's his mother. Almost. But ultimately, this line of Kavenaughs and Turners has to stop somehow.

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Re: Pictures and Videos for R&P

Post by Skinypupy » Sun Jan 20, 2019 12:39 pm

The part that bugs me is the idea that the tribal Elder was somehow “getting in his face”, and the actions were therefore justified.

From what I see there, he was actually trying to defuse a tense situation using the song (chant? Sorry, I don’t know the correct term) as a way to do that. The level of disrespect shown from that point forward is still completely inexcusable.
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Re: Pictures and Videos for R&P

Post by LawBeefaroni » Sun Jan 20, 2019 1:24 pm

LordMortis wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 11:58 am
Skinypupy wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 11:51 am
Smoove_B wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 11:17 am
Alefroth wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 1:38 am
Yep. The way to deal with a bully isn't with bullying.
Not surprisingly, the problem didn't start with the kids:



Nice to see that MAGA mindset comports with Helicopter/Snowplow parents too.
I’ll take “things that didn’t happen” for $100 Alex. The whole “black Muslims” thing, not the actual interview.

It does raise an interesting discussion though. When someone is walking around in public with the modern equivalent of a swastika armband, what level of shit should they reasonably expect to receive?

GMA seems to show it did. It's no excuse for the mob or for his behavior or for not having chaperones.



And douche child is mostly a victim of his own upbringing or so it would seem.
Love the "shit rolls downhill" argument. They were picked on (in a confrontation they initiated) so they're justified picking on someone else. MAGA.

The school website has a pop-up now:
A MESSAGE FROM THE DIOCESE OF COVINGTON AND COVINGTON CATHOLIC HIGH SCHOOL
We condemn the actions of the Covington Catholic High School students towards Nathan Phillips specifically, and Native Americans in general, Jan. 18, after the March for Life, in Washington, D.C. We extend our deepest apologies to Mr. Phillips. This behavior is opposed to the Church’s teachings on the dignity and respect of the human person.
The matter is being investigated and we will take appropriate action, up to and including expulsion.
We know this incident also has tainted the entire witness of the March for Life and express our most sincere apologies to all those who attended the March and all those who support the pro-life movement.

The Diocese of Covington and Covington Catholic High School

I've spent a lot of time in that area. I have family there. It's racist as fuck. So much so that many of these kids might not even know it.
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Re: Pictures and Videos for R&P

Post by Smoove_B » Sun Jan 20, 2019 1:36 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 1:24 pm
I've spent a lot of time in that area. I have family there. It's racist as fuck. So much so that many of these kids might not even know it.
I don't know the area, but my impression from watching the video is exactly what I'd expect when you take a bunch of suburban white kids to Washington D.C. on a protest weekend, give them MAGA hats to wear, and let them interact with groups of people they've likely only been told about (or heard their racist shitbag parents talking about).

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Re: Pictures and Videos for R&P

Post by Alefroth » Sun Jan 20, 2019 2:02 pm

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 37186.html
The Independent wrote:Separate video shared online showed a group of black men standing near the scene of the confrontation, arguing with the MAGA hat-wearing Trump supporters. It is unclear to which religious group the men belonged, but they could be heard quoting passages from the Old Testament of the Bible.

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Re: Pictures and Videos for R&P

Post by Jaymann » Sun Jan 20, 2019 2:07 pm

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Re: Pictures and Videos for R&P

Post by hepcat » Sun Jan 20, 2019 2:25 pm

A little late to the party on this one, but I’m still confused as to why the Gillette commercial is causing such teeth gnashing and clothes tearing from Trumpers. :?
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Re: Pictures and Videos for R&P

Post by Alefroth » Sun Jan 20, 2019 2:30 pm

hepcat wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 2:25 pm
A little late to the party on this one, but I’m still confused as to why the Gillette commercial is causing such teeth gnashing and clothes tearing from Trumpers. :?
Because it's a scary time to be a young man in America.

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Re: Pictures and Videos for R&P

Post by Skinypupy » Sun Jan 20, 2019 2:45 pm

hepcat wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 2:25 pm
A little late to the party on this one, but I’m still confused as to why the Gillette commercial is causing such teeth gnashing and clothes tearing from Trumpers. :?
Rather than try and translate, here's was the reaction from one of my ultra-conservative friends on FB:
Finally watched this. Great message about men being their best EXCEPT for the fact that it seems to be coming from a paradigm that most men are dirtbags and that it’s time to grow up. I think most men, most PEOPLE, are already decent humans beings. This commercial seems to be projecting the behaviors of some of the dirtbags in Hollywood and the media onto the rest of us men.
He was also frustrated because the ad portrayed bad behavior such as bullying, sexism, racism, assault, etc. as "so common, when it's really not" (his words).

So it's basically the same "it doesn't personally affect me as a white, straight, Christian male, therefore it doesn't exist and other people shouldn't be telling me how to live my life" thought process that conservatives typically display. I attempted to point that out...it didn't go particularly well.
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Re: Pictures and Videos for R&P

Post by GreenGoo » Sun Jan 20, 2019 3:05 pm

malchior wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 7:31 am
Let me guess they also failed to mention they were chanting 'Build the Wall'.
I see you have the gift of the third eye.

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Re: Pictures and Videos for R&P

Post by Holman » Sun Jan 20, 2019 6:52 pm

Alefroth wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 2:02 pm
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 37186.html
The Independent wrote:Separate video shared online showed a group of black men standing near the scene of the confrontation, arguing with the MAGA hat-wearing Trump supporters. It is unclear to which religious group the men belonged, but they could be heard quoting passages from the Old Testament of the Bible.
It's weirder than it looks. (Thread)



JJ MacNab is an excellent follow for news on right-wing extremist groups.
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Re: Pictures and Videos for R&P

Post by Alefroth » Sun Jan 20, 2019 6:57 pm

Yet still no black Muslims to be seen.

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Re: Pictures and Videos for R&P

Post by Hiccup » Sun Jan 20, 2019 9:10 pm

Holman wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 6:52 pm

JJ MacNab is an excellent follow for news on right-wing extremist groups.
....**tries to make a joke about subscriptions to private school newspapers***

Nah, too easy.
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Re: Pictures and Videos for R&P

Post by Paingod » Mon Jan 21, 2019 9:56 am

hepcat wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 11:30 pm
Don’t like what the kids did, but I dislike the internet trying to ruin their lives even more. We were all stupid teenagers at some point. They need guidance, not a public execution. I’m fine with people contacting the school and complaining, but trying to find the names of these admittedly wrong kids so they can be persecuted and threatened on social media is even more egregious. I’m really glad I went through my teens before the internet.
I'm oddly fine with these boys getting the proverbial internet switching for this. They won't get ruined forever, but they've stripped any chance at political futures - which, again, I'm totally fine with.
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Re: Pictures and Videos for R&P

Post by LordMortis » Mon Jan 21, 2019 10:21 am

I'm mostly concerned with how the kids got to be who they are and why there were not chaperones and how dangerously close to letting the mob mentality take on life of it's own.

Alefroth's link has a nearly 2 hour video of continuous footage from the militant group (which appear to be Christian not Muslim to my ignorant ears). I did not hear any chants of "Build that Wall" but there were chants of some sort and Phillips did walk into what was slowly becoming a charged situation and some of his Phillips own group were escalating rather then de-escalating.

I'm not even a little bit of a fan of mob justice or social media justice or doxxing or whatever, but I am still deeply affected by what happened and feel anger at and lament for the kids. It has been suggested to me that this is because Phillips is a local and douches of my own own Alma Mater have assaulted him before. That might be it. I dunno.

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Re: Pictures and Videos for R&P

Post by hepcat » Mon Jan 21, 2019 10:29 am

Paingod wrote:
Mon Jan 21, 2019 9:56 am

I'm oddly fine with these boys getting the proverbial internet switching for this.
I'm not fine with it. The mob mentality of the internet in situations like this disgusts me and is evidence of the worst of humanity. People bitching about bullying and racism become even worse bullies and racists themselves. And if you try to denounce said mob mentality, then you usually end up becoming the target yourself. The hypocrisy is astounding at times.

Videos coming out now show that the hate group House of Israel sought a confrontation with teenagers. The Native American group tried to do what I assumed they thought was the right thing by intervening. The teenage kid who's obviously a smart ass tried to act cool and impress his friends by staring down an elderly man.

CNN reviewed the video and couldn't find any evidence of the teenagers shouting "build a wall". Phillips (the drummer) says he heard it, and I have no reason to doubt him. But it doesn't seem like the kids were all shouting it. Meanwhile, the racist House of Israel group was hurling insults at every ethnic group around them.

Was "staring kid" acting like a jackass? Sure. But the kid's getting death threats and the school is talking about expulsion.

edit: LM noted that some of Phillips group was also acting like asshats. I hadn't watched the second video long enough to catch that, so I don't know what really happened. Except that almost everyone acted badly, it seems.
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Re: Pictures and Videos for R&P

Post by Smoove_B » Mon Jan 21, 2019 10:54 am

At the end of the day, if you're going to ask me to side with someone, it's not going to be braying teenagers wearing MAGA hats.

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Re: Pictures and Videos for R&P

Post by hepcat » Mon Jan 21, 2019 11:02 am

At the end of the day, if you're going to ask me to side with someone, I'm going with the group that doesn't try to escalate it into a public hanging for a kid acting like a dumb ass. All while seemingly trying to downplay the actions of a real hate group that was also there and was going much further in the name of racism.

I'm on a high horse, sure. But I think my tolerance for asshattery from what seems like the overwhelming majority of social media users on both the left and the right has been significantly lessened the last few years.
Last edited by hepcat on Mon Jan 21, 2019 11:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Pictures and Videos for R&P

Post by Trent Steel » Mon Jan 21, 2019 11:04 am

hepcat wrote:
Mon Jan 21, 2019 10:29 am
Was "staring kid" acting like a jackass? Sure. But the kid's getting death threats and the school is talking about expulsion.
You reap what you sow.
Smoove_B wrote:
Mon Jan 21, 2019 10:54 am
At the end of the day, if you're going to ask me to side with someone, it's not going to be braying teenagers wearing MAGA hats.
In this day and age, abso-goddamn-lutely. Also, if the House of Israel group was looking to confront the MAGA-teens, why was douch-punchable-face-teen staring down Phillips?
Last edited by Trent Steel on Mon Jan 21, 2019 11:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Pictures and Videos for R&P

Post by hepcat » Mon Jan 21, 2019 11:07 am

Trent Steel wrote:
Mon Jan 21, 2019 11:04 am
You reap what you sow.
That's a fine sentiment, until it's you or your kids/family members that acts stupid in public, get filmed, and then find themselves getting phone calls at 2am saying that they should have been aborted, or that someone is outside right now with a gun waiting to end you.
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Re: Pictures and Videos for R&P

Post by Trent Steel » Mon Jan 21, 2019 11:08 am

hepcat wrote:
Mon Jan 21, 2019 11:07 am
Trent Steel wrote:
Mon Jan 21, 2019 11:04 am
You reap what you sow.
That's a fine sentiment, until it's you or your kids/family members that acts stupid in public, get filmed, and then find themselves getting phone calls at 2am saying that they should have been aborted, or that someone is outside right now with a gun waiting to end you.
The mother also reaps what she sows.
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Re: Pictures and Videos for R&P

Post by hepcat » Mon Jan 21, 2019 11:09 am

That wasn't who I was referring to.

But I think you know that.
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Re: Pictures and Videos for R&P

Post by LawBeefaroni » Mon Jan 21, 2019 11:10 am

hepcat wrote:
Mon Jan 21, 2019 10:29 am
Paingod wrote:
Mon Jan 21, 2019 9:56 am

I'm oddly fine with these boys getting the proverbial internet switching for this.
I'm not fine with it. The mob mentality of the internet in situations like this disgusts me and is evidence of the worst of humanity. People bitching about bullying and racism become even worse bullies and racists themselves. And if you try to denounce said mob mentality, then you usually end up becoming the target yourself. The hypocrisy is astounding at times.

Videos coming out now show that the hate group House of Israel sought a confrontation with teenagers. The Native American group tried to do what I assumed they thought was the right thing by intervening. The teenage kid who's obviously a smart ass tried to act cool and impress his friends by staring down an elderly man.

CNN reviewed the video and couldn't find any evidence of the teenagers shouting "build a wall". Phillips (the drummer) says he heard it, and I have no reason to doubt him. But it doesn't seem like the kids were all shouting it. Meanwhile, the racist House of Israel group was hurling insults at every ethnic group around them.

Was "staring kid" acting like a jackass? Sure. But the kid's getting death threats and the school is talking about expulsion.

edit: LM noted that some of Phillips group was also acting like asshats. I hadn't watched the second video long enough to catch that, so I don't know what really happened. Except that almost everyone acted badly, it seems.
This kids have a choice. Double down or cut and run. They can try to make excuses, claim to be victims, whatever, or they can apologize (or not) and just move on. That's really the behavior I would use to judge them but to be honest, I'm not going to follow their stories or social media to find out. But I would give them that chance.

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Re: Pictures and Videos for R&P

Post by Trent Steel » Mon Jan 21, 2019 11:11 am

hepcat wrote:
Mon Jan 21, 2019 11:09 am
That wasn't who I was referring to.

But I think you know that.
No, but if we're talking about it being all well and good until it's my kid who's involved, well, I'll put my money on that not happening as I'm not raising my kids in a racist, xenophobic incubator like said mom.
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Re: Pictures and Videos for R&P

Post by hepcat » Mon Jan 21, 2019 11:12 am

LawBeefaroni wrote:
Mon Jan 21, 2019 11:10 am

This kids have a choice. Double down or cut and run. They can try to make excuses, claim to be victims, whatever, or they can apologize (or not) and just move on. That's really the behavior I would use to judge them but to be honest, I'm not going to follow their stories or social media to find out. But I would give them that chance.

One way lies entrenchment, the other lies enlightenment.
+1

Trent Steel wrote:
Mon Jan 21, 2019 11:11 am
hepcat wrote:
Mon Jan 21, 2019 11:09 am
That wasn't who I was referring to.

But I think you know that.
No, but if we're talking about it being all well and good until it's my kid who's involved, well, I'll put my money on that not happening as I'm not raising my kids in a racist, xenophobic incubator like said mom.
Unfortunately, you're not the only person influencing your child's life. Sadly,I know quite a few parents who are shocked to hear what their kids pick up at school or on social media, then repeat in public.
Last edited by hepcat on Mon Jan 21, 2019 11:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Pictures and Videos for R&P

Post by Holman » Mon Jan 21, 2019 11:13 am

There were, what, four people in "Black Israel" group? And not many more Native Americans?

Seeing them mobbed by a couple dozen or more MAGAheads clearly feeling their strength in numbers makes it very difficult to "both sides" this one. The lack of chaperone action is a huge part of it, but these are kids who clearly felt that mocking and crowding the Native Americans was the best use of the moment.

Incidentally, one usual result of this kind of confrontation between protesters is that National Park Service personnel move in to separate the groups and inform them of their rights and responsibilities. Guess why none were at work that day?
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Re: Pictures and Videos for R&P

Post by hepcat » Mon Jan 21, 2019 11:19 am

Holman wrote:
Mon Jan 21, 2019 11:13 am
There were, what, four people in "Black Israel" group?
So the injustice of racism is lessened depending on the number of people yelling it at one time?

Look, I know this is going to turn into me being seen as a defendant of these kids actions. If it already hasn't.

This is not the case. I'm condemning the judge, jury and executioner nature of social media. Which I feel is out of control. I think that message is starting to fade into the background right now.
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You have to whack a few rabbits before you are ready to punch a camel.
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LordMortis
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Re: Pictures and Videos for R&P

Post by LordMortis » Mon Jan 21, 2019 11:24 am

hepcat wrote:
Mon Jan 21, 2019 10:29 am
edit: LM noted that some of Phillips group was also acting like asshats. I hadn't watched the second video long enough to catch that, so I don't know what really happened. Except that almost everyone acted badly, it seems.
There are shouting matches mostly coming from Phillps group (that could be heard about. Guy to side of Phillips with sunglasses) who the land really belongs to. Don't have time find it at work. I'd say maybe I'll find it and post after work but I don't need to sit through it again.
I'm on a high horse, sure. But I think my tolerance for asshattery from what seems like the overwhelming majority of social media users on both the left and the right has been significantly lessened the last few years.
I'm disappointed with myself for letting my blood pressure rise as much as it did without getting something approaching a more complete picture. It's an example of selective exposure that I try to guard against, and was still blinded by. That said, while I am not OUTRAGEd, I still disapprove of what was considered acceptable from these kids and it still leaves me unsettled.

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hepcat
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Location: Chicago, IL Home of the triple homicide!

Re: Pictures and Videos for R&P

Post by hepcat » Mon Jan 21, 2019 11:36 am

LordMortis wrote:
Mon Jan 21, 2019 11:24 am

I'm disappointed with myself for letting my blood pressure rise as much as it did without getting something approaching a more complete picture. It's an example of selective exposure that I try to guard against, and was still blinded by. That said, while I am not OUTRAGEd, I still disapprove of what was considered acceptable from these kids and it still leaves me unsettled.
Ditto. The kid's smug demeanor is hard to take, I will admit. Even if he hadn't been staring down an elderly man, it would have made me predisposed to disliking him.
I beat a camel to death with a monkey. Can I do that?
-Mr Bismarck

You have to whack a few rabbits before you are ready to punch a camel.
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Smoove_B
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Re: Pictures and Videos for R&P

Post by Smoove_B » Mon Jan 21, 2019 11:41 am

Oh, I don't think these kids deserve to be identified by the mob of the internet, no. But I do think it's fair to laser attention to the school and/or community that set them up for this opportunity.

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