The lone American prisoner of war from the Afghan conflict, captured by insurgents nearly five years ago, has been released to American forces in exchange for five Taliban prisoners held at the Guantánamo Bay, Cuba, detention facility, Obama administration officials said Saturday.
The soldier, Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl, was handed over to American Special Operations forces inside Afghanistan about 10:30 a.m. Saturday by a group of 18 Taliban, officials said.
American officials said that Sergeant Bergdahl was in good condition and able to walk.
The five Taliban prisoners at Guantánamo were being transferred into the custody of officials from Qatar, who will accompany them back to that Persian Gulf state, where they will be subject to security restrictions, including a one-year travel ban.
Talks on the exchange resumed in earnest about a week ago with Qatari officials who were acting as intermediaries for the Taliban.
Last edited by Isgrimnur on Mon Feb 13, 2017 5:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.
As more information comes out about this deal, I'm highly disturbed at HOW this went down. Obviously we are all glad he has been released, but it looks as if the Obama administration
1. Negotiated with terrorists
2. Released the 5 most dangerous Taliban commanders that we had in custody
3. Failed to consult congress before the transfer, which is a violation of law:
The law requires the defense secretary to notify relevant congressional committees at least 30 days before making any transfers of prisoners, to explain the reason and to provide assurances that those released would not be in a position to reengage in activities that could threaten the United States or its interests.
Before the current law was enacted at the end of last year, the conditions were even more stringent. However, the administration and some Democrats had pressed for them to be loosened, in part to give them more flexibility to negotiate for Bergdahl’s release.
quote courtesy of the Washington Post.
This administration has zero respect or concern for the law though, so this does not surprise me one bit.
It's 109 first team All-Americans.
It's a college football record 61 bowl appearances.
It's 34 bowl victories.
It's 24 Southeastern Conference Championships.
It's 15 National Championships.
At some places they play football. At Alabama we live it.
GreenGoo wrote:Heh. Well at least there's a down side.
There's definitely a down side now that they know for certain that America will turn over, on a 5 to 1 ratio, dangerous and top level prisoners in exchange for soldiers.
It's 109 first team All-Americans.
It's a college football record 61 bowl appearances.
It's 34 bowl victories.
It's 24 Southeastern Conference Championships.
It's 15 National Championships.
At some places they play football. At Alabama we live it.
GreenGoo wrote:Heh. Well at least there's a down side.
There's definitely a down side now that they know for certain that America will turn over, on a 5 to 1 ratio, dangerous and top level prisoners in exchange for soldiers.
I don't think they are naive enough to think one time equals certainty.
Those 5 released dudes already have drone strike targets all over their backs. They just don't know it yet, or maybe they do.
I think it's a very gutsy ballsy move to have released them, and get our guy back. Shows me the value of 1 US military man.
1 US man = 5 AQ operatives.
Now the US Intelligence agencies and the US Spec Op's have 5 guy's to keep tabs on and kill.
It's not like the US doesn't know how to target, dismantle, destroy AQ's chain-of-command.
Let them show their faces above ground and they're a greasy spot in the dirt. Just a matter of time.
At first I was surprised that some politicians would use this rescue as a pretense for attacking Obama. Then I remembered that they did the same thing when he got Bin Laden.
msduncan wrote:This administration has zero respect or concern for the law though, so this does not surprise me one bit.
I understand your frustration here, but do you really think that the things they've done are any different whatsoever from the previous administration? Or is it only that you disagree with the end results and not the methods?
Black Lives definitely Matter Lorini!
Also: There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
An american is freed from captivity instead of freed from his head. Thanks, Obama!
Well do you ever get the feeling that the story's too damn real and in the present tense?
Or that everybody's on the stage and it seems like you're the only person sitting in the audience?
And BTW we negotiate with terrorists on a daily basis and have since the very beginning of our nation. We just like to call it Foreign Policy.
Well do you ever get the feeling that the story's too damn real and in the present tense?
Or that everybody's on the stage and it seems like you're the only person sitting in the audience?
RuperT wrote:In the long run, it seems to me that finding out who they want back is of more value than storing people we've already interrogated at length.
Plus I'm sure the tracking chips they secretly implanted in these guys will be of great value.
dbt1949 wrote:I'm glad the soldier is back but negotiating with terrorists is bad. Maybe they're not terrorists anymore more but hostile freedom fighters.
All I know is that one of them actively assisted Bin Laden and Al Qaeda's escape over the Pakistani boarder. All 5 of them are senior Taliban commanders, terrorists, leadership that assisted Al Qaeda, and people guilty of some of the worst crimes against women and homosexuals on this planet.
It's 109 first team All-Americans.
It's a college football record 61 bowl appearances.
It's 34 bowl victories.
It's 24 Southeastern Conference Championships.
It's 15 National Championships.
At some places they play football. At Alabama we live it.
First: Obama has been unable to deliver on his promise to close Gitmo because a number of prisoners cannot be repatriated and Congress won't allow them to be transferred to US soil. I suspect that these five fellows were part of that obstacle.
Second: I wonder if this prisoner swap is part of a bigger deal with the Taliban that we aren't being told about. Perhaps we just got a step closer to a negotiated peace in Afghanistan.
I thought we were past that 'no negotiations with terrorists' misdirection. It's clear that even right wingers, Ronald Reagan for example, will deal with whoever it takes to get the results they want. Even Israelis deal with their arch enemies. It's a bit naive to think there's an absolute line that won't be crossed.
In this particular case I think we got a good deal. Odds are those guys we let go aren't long for this world, one way or another. Meanwhile our guy is pretty safe to rebuild a life here. I have no idea of his mental state, but it's not like he's going to be having Taliban drones hunting him. The guys we let go are going to be on someone's computer screen at some point.
We already were in talks with the Taliban, even if unofficial, regarding possible peace/ceasefire deals. Let's face it, we were not in position to dictate terms in either Iraq or Afghanistan, we have to take what we can get. That's hardly the Obama administration's fault.
people guilty of some of the worst crimes against women and homosexuals on this planet.
Are you describing the Taliban or the conservative right? Im confused!
ps: sorry, it was just too easy
Well do you ever get the feeling that the story's too damn real and in the present tense?
Or that everybody's on the stage and it seems like you're the only person sitting in the audience?
dbt1949 wrote:I'm glad the soldier is back but negotiating with terrorists is bad. Maybe they're not terrorists anymore more but hostile freedom fighters.
All I know is that one of them actively assisted Bin Laden and Al Qaeda's escape over the Pakistani boarder.
Are you worried that he's going to do it again?
Unless you think each one is a mastermind, they're simply old big fish who have now been out of the game so long that they will be starting from scratch. Their lieutenants--the ones smart enough not to get captured--have long since moved into their shoes and adapted to circumstances of which these prisoners are long unaware.
Prisoner swaps are routine in this kind of war. The Israelis do it all the time; they'll trade dozens or hundreds of prisoners for one or two captured IDF soldiers, or even for their bodies.
Over 400 Palestinian and 30 Lebanese prisoners, including Hezbollah leaders ash-Sheikh Abdal-Karim Obeid and Mustafa Dirani, as well as the remains of 59 Lebanese killed by Israel, were exchanged in 2004 for the bodies of three IDF soldiers (Adi Avitan, Benny Avraham and Omar Souad) captured in the Sheba Farms area in 2000 and Elhanan Tannenbaum, an Israeli colonel in the reserves, kidnapped by Hezbollah in Dubai in October 2000.
On 18 October 2011 captured IDF tank gunner Gilad Shalit, captured by the Palestinian militant organization Hamas in 2006, was released in exchange for 1027 Palestinian prisoners held in Israel. The released prisoners were responsible for the deaths of 569 Israeli civilians.
Suitably Ironic Moniker wrote:But...but...it's Obama! The antichrist! Everything he does is evil socialism adopted from his Kenyan homeland!
Intellectually bankrupt and lunch room response. Congrats.
It's 109 first team All-Americans.
It's a college football record 61 bowl appearances.
It's 34 bowl victories.
It's 24 Southeastern Conference Championships.
It's 15 National Championships.
At some places they play football. At Alabama we live it.
While I largely agree with the idea of not negotiating with terrorists, I don't think this is one of those situations. Exchanging prisoners has been going on in wars throughout history. We shouldn't leave this guy in limbo because he had the audacity to be captured during the wrong war.
Well...yeah. Not negotiating with terrorists means not discussing concessions under the threat of and to prevent violence.
In this case the fact that they are terrorists has nothing to do with the negotiations really.
If you want to argue that 5 for 1 is a poor deal and Obama has poor negotiators, have at it. If you want to yell "Obama negotiates with terrorists!" then we have a problem.
The spirit behind "we don't negotiate with terrorists" is that you don't buckle under the threat of violence. i.e. Remove troops from Afghanistan or we blow up the Statue of Liberty. No thanks.
I think it's a bit different when you have PoW's on both sides. But maybe people think otherwise?
These weren't just average Joe Taliban that were released. They were the worst of the crop. Commanders from the early days of the conflict that:
1. Stood up the Taliban in Afghanistan, pushed women out of schools and into full covered Burkas, whipped them for violations, executed fellow muslims for not being as fundamental as they were, destroyed world heritage sites that didn't fit their world view (Buddhist statues), burned, pillaged, and ruled through horror and the fist. Had no problems killing men, women, and even children that didn't strictly obey them.
2. Set up a refuge and supplied, assisted, and were an accessory to Bin Laden and the attacks on the World Trade Center and elsewhere. Refused to hand them over after the attacks.
3. Assisted Bin Laden's escape into Pakistan under heavy assault from the US. Essentially slipped him out the back door.
This trade has ensured that the basic command structure of the Taliban can be returned and reconstructed right where they left off. This isn't about Obama other than the fact that he was dumb enough to do this. This is about releasing 5 heinous human beings who are in most ways worse than anyone we faced in Iraq or Vietnam. These guys play by an entirely different set of rules that some of you seem either unwilling or incapable of grasping or acknowledging.
I'll throw it right back at you. You are glossing over this, excusing it, dismissing it, and even considering it a wise move almost exclusively because the Obama administration was behind it. Saying differently is being dishonest.
--Mohammad Fazl was the terrorist group’s former deputy minister.
--Abdul Haq Wasiq was a former deputy minster of intelligence.
--Mr. Khairkhwa was a former heroine trafficker and Taliban governor of Herat.
--Norullah Noori was personally asked by Osama Bin Laden to participate in northern drug wars.
--Mohammad Nabi Omarisenior was a Taliban official who served in multiple leadership roles and maintained weapons caches and facilitated the smuggling of fighters and weapons.
It's 109 first team All-Americans.
It's a college football record 61 bowl appearances.
It's 34 bowl victories.
It's 24 Southeastern Conference Championships.
It's 15 National Championships.
At some places they play football. At Alabama we live it.
MSDuncan, so what? Terrorists can and will be killed. DRONE STRIKES!!!
That's what the current admin. does. They kill them all.
MSDuncan, reading your posts it's like you're living in fear that these 5 dudes are gonna start some shit.
The past is the past. This is the here and now. I don't give a rat's ass what they did in the past. Let them TRY to do something now,
they'll be dealt with.
According to the agreement for their release they have to REMAIN IN Qatar subject to security restrictions, and a 1 year travel ban.
So...it's not like they hop off their plane from Cuba, throw on their battle gear and jump right back into their old ways.
And what if they violate the agreement? They'll be dealt with.
I'm not even an Obama supporter. I'm a middle of the road Republican and I'm not scared that these guys are an immediate threat.
Since 9/11 the US has been in war mode. We're not the same unprepared country pre-9/11. We HAVE learned a few lessons about how to
deal with scumbags like these 5 guys.
Remember that one guy that was in charge of Al-Queda, the one with the robes, beard, AK-47? Where is he these days?
Oh yeah...he's gone, fish food at the bottom of the ocean.
MSduncan, your rants are filled with fear. Stop with the fear mongering. It does you no good.
Again, former big fish. They used to be connected, now they're out of touch from years in a hole. Maybe they can get back in touch, but there is no shortage of others who can do the same. It's quite likely that the networks these guys relied on are dead (literally) or outmoded by more recent events. Plus, as others have pointed out, every one of these guys now has Hellfire with his name on it. We're quite good at that part.
If you're worried that releasing them somehow allows them to escape punishment for the crimes you listed, look again at the Israeli prisoner exchange list linked above.
It comes down to this: we had a chance to free our soldier. The choice was for the administration to make a deal or to actively leave this man behind. If they had done the latter, would the politicians bleating so loudly now be praising the administration for its resolve in not "negotiating with terrorists"? Really?
Isgrimnur wrote:The only way to prove that he's a deserter is to debrief him.
Or interview his squad mates.
It's 109 first team All-Americans.
It's a college football record 61 bowl appearances.
It's 34 bowl victories.
It's 24 Southeastern Conference Championships.
It's 15 National Championships.
At some places they play football. At Alabama we live it.
Regardless, I'm sure there will be plenty of information to come out now. Or is it your intent that he should have been tried in absentia and denied the legal protections and ability to speak in his own defense that any one of us would be afforded in any other circumstance?
msduncan wrote:--Mohammad Fazl was the terrorist group’s former deputy minister.
--Abdul Haq Wasiq was a former deputy minster of intelligence.
--Mr. Khairkhwa was a former heroine trafficker and Taliban governor of Herat.
--Norullah Noori was personally asked by Osama Bin Laden to participate in northern drug wars.
--Mohammad Nabi Omarisenior was a Taliban official who served in multiple leadership roles and maintained weapons caches and facilitated the smuggling of fighters and weapons.
Were they ever charged with anything?
PS - heroine trafficker? I never thought of the Taliban as pushing heroines...
Black Lives definitely Matter Lorini!
Also: There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
msduncan wrote:These weren't just average Joe Taliban that were released. They were the worst of the crop. Commanders from the early days of the conflict that:
1. Stood up the Taliban in Afghanistan, pushed women out of schools and into full covered Burkas, whipped them for violations, executed fellow muslims for not being as fundamental as they were, destroyed world heritage sites that didn't fit their world view (Buddhist statues), burned, pillaged, and ruled through horror and the fist. Had no problems killing men, women, and even children that didn't strictly obey them.
Then no doubt some cut their teeth in the mujahideen fighting the Soviets under US direction and funding.
" Hey OP, listen to my advice alright." -Tha General "No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton MYT
