Ferguson, Mo

[Brian]

Sideways baby! It's how UCs roll now!

Eedjots.

He is out of the trigger guard, it's more a gesture than actually targeting someone. But still, not good.

It's funny, they OPD LT quoted says they weren't OPD officers but clearly they were known to be undercover officers or they would have been subdued/shot for tackling that guy and drawing on the crowd. Apparently they were trying to incite looting.

Alex Jones is probably having a field day with that one.

I noticed that the article no longer shows the picture where the officer is pointing his gun directly at the camera man.

It was there the first time I followed the link but now it only shows the one from the side.

I wonder why they decided to remove the other pic.

[tjg_marantz]

Because pressure I'm sure

[Pyperkub]

Why would an outside agency have two undercover guys trying to incite a crowd to loot and stuff? Seems very odd if that is the case. I wonder what the chances of the public getting answers to that are?

It discredits the entire protest, gets them written off as a mob of looters and buries the point.

Hoover's FBI was notorious for stunts such as these.

[GreenGoo]

Hoover's FBI was notorious for stunts such as these.

And worse. He was a bad, bad man. Makes Chenney look like a man of the people.

[em2nought]

Hoover's FBI was notorious for stunts such as these.

And worse. He was a bad, bad man. Makes Cheney look like a man of the people.

He's a man of the people, he has one of their hearts to prove it.

[Arcanis]

Why would an outside agency have two undercover guys trying to incite a crowd to loot and stuff? Seems very odd if that is the case. I wonder what the chances of the public getting answers to that are?

It discredits the entire protest, gets them written off as a mob of looters and buries the point.

Hoover's FBI was notorious for stunts such as these.

Since I first started seeing this story it just felt like it was the FBI that these 2 worked for. I hope we do find out who they work for and what the hell they thought they were doing. I'd also like to know why they got caught, guess they had a badge on them or something else that gave them away.

[GreenGoo]

I'd also like to know why they got caught

I've been wondering this too.

[msduncan]

So there was a Black Lives Matter protest at the local affluent shopping center in B'ham today. The Summit.

Several observations:

1. Media hyped up traffic disruptions beforehand. The folks that showed up stayed on the side of the road and out of traffic.

2. The protesters did not have a permit. The police said it wasn't a big deal and that they would let the protests go without a permit, but they didn't want traffic blocked. The police also tried multiple times to get in touch with protest organizers but they couldn't find anyone. They wanted to help work together to make it safe according to police.

3. Several dozen protesters showed up, and most of them were white people.around half or more were white people. It should also be noted that Birmingham has a healthy diversity of officers and also a black police chief.

[Pyperkub]

Baltimore News station gets a story wrong in just about the most inflammatory fashion ever:

What you are hearing there is a protester in Washington, D.C. shout the following chant:

We can't stop!

We won't stop!

'til killer cops are in cell blocks!

Mischaracterized in a jump cut voiceover to:

We can't stop!

We won't stop!

So kill a cop!

By cutting away from the video mid-chant, (the station's) segment paints protestors as explicitly calling for the murder of police. They've depicted a non-violent protest about accountability for police brutality as a bloodthirsty mob.

1 guess as to which network the station is affiliated with.

[GreenGoo]

Assuming what you've written is accurate (I have not read the article), I am suitably appalled.

[pr0ner]

Funny that story gets mentioned here and not the story of the 2 NYPD cops who were assassinated in retaliation for the Garner/Brown incidents.

[Moliere]

Funny that story gets mentioned here and not the story of the 2 NYPD cops who were assassinated in retaliation for the Garner/Brown incidents.

Is that why he shot his girlfriend too? The guy wasn't exactly stable.

By this year, Mr. Brinsley had become isolated. He was estranged from his family. His on-again, off-again relationship with Shaneka Thompson, 29, who works for the Maryland Department of Welfare and serves in the Air Force Reserve, was off again. By Saturday, he had seized on the deaths at the hands of police officers of Eric Garner on Staten Island and Michael Brown in Ferguson, Mo., focusing his rage against the authorities. In his short life, during which Mr. Brinsley failed to finish high school, to hold a steady job or, seemingly, to commit even the smallest crime without being caught, thoughts of revenge seemed to be the one thing giving him purpose.

“Most of his postings and rants are on the Instagram account, and what we’re seeing from this right now is anger against the government,” Robert K. Boyce, the Police Department’s chief of detectives, said at a news conference on Sunday. Chief Boyce added that one of those posts showed a burning flag, and in others Mr. Brinsley talked of the anger he felt toward the police. There were, Chief Boyce said, “other postings as well, of self-despair, of anger at himself and where his life is right now.”

No members of his family spoke of Mr. Brinsley with fondness. He bounced from family home to family home growing up, attending high school in New Jersey but reaching only the 10th grade. A sister in Atlanta, Nawaal Brinsley, said she had not seen him in two years. Another sister who had lived in the Bronx could not be reached, but the police said they had been called to a dispute with Mr. Brinsley at her home in 2011. Mr. Brinsley’s mother, who lives in Brooklyn, told the police she feared her son and had not seen him in a month. She said “he had a very troubled childhood and was often violent,” Chief Boyce said.

[LawBeefaroni]

Funny that story gets mentioned here and not the story of the 2 NYPD cops who were assassinated in retaliation for the Garner/Brown incidents.

They were killed by a spree killer who figured he'd go out in a blaze of media saturated glory. He'd previously been arrested for illegal carry and had been jailed on weapons charges. He had been arrested 19 times total. He was suicidal and suffered from depression. This was his way out.

Garner/Brown news may have driven him to target two officers sitting in their car but if Garner/Brown weren't in the news, he probably still would have shot his ex-girlfriend and then walked into a cafe or police station or hospital or somewhere else and started shooting people. The tragedy for her and everyone else is that she stopped him from killing himself.

[GreenGoo]

Funny that story gets mentioned here and not the story of the 2 NYPD cops who were assassinated in retaliation for the Garner/Brown incidents.

You're right, that *IS* hilarious.

[Pyperkub]

Funny that story gets mentioned here and not the story of the 2 NYPD cops who were assassinated in retaliation for the Garner/Brown incidents.

They were killed by a spree killer who figured he'd go out in a blaze of media saturated glory. He'd previously been arrested for illegal carry and had been jailed on weapons charges. He had been arrested 19 times total. He was suicidal and suffered from depression. This was his way out.

Garner/Brown news may have driven him to target two officers sitting in their car but if Garner/Brown weren't in the news, he probably still would have shot his ex-girlfriend and then walked into a cafe or police station or hospital or somewhere else and started shooting people. The tragedy for her and everyone else is that she stopped him from killing himself.

Yeah, if that wasn't in the media, he'd probably have done what the wife-murdering cleric did in Australia. He appears to have been crazy before the hysteria. That guy appears to have been on a murder-suicide hunt.

[Holman]

I've just learned that Officer Ramos (one of the two murdered in NY) is the nephew of a beloved English teacher at my son's school. We've worked outside of class with this teacher on some fundraising projects, and I know him to be a stellar guy for all kinds of reasons. I can only assume the same of his nephew.



This senseless stupid killing is awful. Seeing TV people spin it to score political points against legitimate protestors is nauseating.

[Rip]

I've just learned that Officer Ramos (one of the two murdered in NY) is the nephew of a beloved English teacher at my son's school. We've worked outside of class with this teacher on some fundraising projects, and I know him to be a stellar guy for all kinds of reasons. I can only assume the same of his nephew.



This senseless stupid killing is awful. Seeing TV people spin it to score political points against legitimate protestors is nauseating.

I haven't seen it spun against legitimate protesters, just the protesters that don't have a clue to the facts, and the real morons calling for cops to be hurt/killed.

[GreenGoo]

See above.

[pr0ner]

Funny that story gets mentioned here and not the story of the 2 NYPD cops who were assassinated in retaliation for the Garner/Brown incidents.

You're right, that *IS* hilarious.

[GreenGoo]

Another shooting just outside Ferguson. If initial reports are correct, cop approached 2 dudes, one pulled a gun and pointed it at the cop, cop did what cops are trained to do and any of us would do by instinct anyway. Dead dude.

Fantastic.

Sorry, no linky.

[LawBeefaroni]

Another shooting just outside Ferguson. If initial reports are correct, cop approached 2 dudes, one pulled a gun and pointed it at the cop, cop did what cops are trained to do and any of us would do by instinct anyway. Dead dude.

Fantastic.

Sorry, no linky.

Technically, near Ferguson but not in Ferguson (2 miles away or so). Not that it matters that much. But not a Ferguson officer.

An 18-year-old male held a gun "straight out" at a Berkeley, Missouri, police officer before that officer fired "what we think ... were three shots," St. Louis County Police Chief Jon Belmar said Thursday. The man -- who died after being shot by the officer --- is not believed to have fired any shots himself, according to Belmar.

...

As news of the shooting spread, a crowd gathered, some among them yelling at a number of police officers who also had arrived. What looked like a firecracker exploded near a gas pump, video from CNN affiliate KMOV showed. A scuffle broke out, and officers grabbed some of the demonstrators and led them off in handcuffs.

[GreenGoo]

Technically, near Ferguson but not in Ferguson (2 miles away or so). Not that it matters that much. But not a Ferguson officer.

I feel that a couple of miles is "just outside of".

[LawBeefaroni]

Technically, near Ferguson but not in Ferguson (2 miles away or so). Not that it matters that much. But not a Ferguson officer.

I feel that a couple of miles is "just outside of".

True. Just clarifying.




When does the baby/thug media game begin for this suspect?

[$iljanus]

Technically, near Ferguson but not in Ferguson (2 miles away or so). Not that it matters that much. But not a Ferguson officer.

I feel that a couple of miles is "just outside of".

True. Just clarifying.




When does the baby/thug media game begin for this suspect?

Opening move:

“As Christmas Eve dawns, another family mourns a child,” declared the Rev. Osagyefo Sekou, who has been heavily involved in the St. Louis area protests that have gone on since Brown’s shooting death in August. “Another makeshift memorial starts to form for yet another life cut short by the cavalier ‘shoot first, ask questions later’ approach of too many of those charged with protecting and serving,” Sekou’s statement, sent to the media Wednesday morning, said.

The protesters’ attention is most likely to turn to the police narrative of the shooting and the media portrayal of the incident and the victim.

“Mr. Martin either had a gun or didn’t, but by morning he will have morphed into a gun wielding ‘super negro’, firing from bushes with at least two different handguns with his DNA-less hands, displaying his “demon” strength, and “bulking up” before running towards armed police,” Sekou said. “What’s more, we’ll soon know if he ever smoked marijuana, got good grades at school and if he ever took a selfie with a bottle of liquor.”

Soon after the shooting, many of the protesters who gained organization and prominence in Ferguson had sprung into action.

If there was a gun then what was the cop supposed to do?

[LawBeefaroni]

If there was a gun then what was the cop supposed to do?

Hopefully there is video. Sounds like it was at a gas station so there's a chance.

“Mr. Martin either had a gun or didn’t, but by morning he will have morphed into a gun wielding ‘super negro’, firing from bushes with at least two different handguns with his DNA-less hands, displaying his “demon” strength, and “bulking up” before running towards armed police,” Sekou said. “What’s more, we’ll soon know if he ever smoked marijuana, got good grades at school and if he ever took a selfie with a bottle of liquor.”

Wow. It doesn't matter what he "morphs into" by morning, at least outside of facebook/twitter/morning news. If he drew a gun, it's open and shut. If he didn't, the officer has to answer for his actions.

[msduncan]

I'm sorry, but my sympathy for these protests and this "movement" is starting to rapidly dissolve. So far the martyrs of this whole thing are as follows:

1. A strong armed robbery suspect caught on camera
2. A repeat offender with a 30 deep rapsheet
3. A man who pulled a 9mm handgun out of his pants when being questioned by a police officer.

So we have now arrived at the point where every criminal of color in the United States is going to be held up as a hero when they get into an armed confrontation or resist arrest with a police officer.

Sympathy reaching level ZERO. I'm over this.

[msteelers]

You know the movement is in trouble if they have lost the white conservatives from Alabama.

[Teggy]

I'm sorry, but my sympathy for these protests and this "movement" is starting to rapidly dissolve. So far the martyrs of this whole thing are as follows:

1. A strong armed robbery suspect caught on camera
2. A repeat offender with a 30 deep rapsheet
3. A man who pulled a 9mm handgun out of his pants when being questioned by a police officer.

So we have now arrived at the point where every criminal of color in the United States is going to be held up as a hero when they get into an armed confrontation or resist arrest with a police officer.

Sympathy reaching level ZERO. I'm over this.

You conveniently left out the 12 year old shot holding a bb gun, as well as the adult shot holding a bb gun in Walmart as well as all these other guys. This isn't a movement that started up because of 2 incidents.

[Skinypupy]

You know the movement is in trouble if they have lost the white conservatives from Alabama.

That literally just made me LOL. Well played, sir.

[msduncan]

I'm sorry, but my sympathy for these protests and this "movement" is starting to rapidly dissolve. So far the martyrs of this whole thing are as follows:

1. A strong armed robbery suspect caught on camera
2. A repeat offender with a 30 deep rapsheet
3. A man who pulled a 9mm handgun out of his pants when being questioned by a police officer.

So we have now arrived at the point where every criminal of color in the United States is going to be held up as a hero when they get into an armed confrontation or resist arrest with a police officer.

Sympathy reaching level ZERO. I'm over this.

You conveniently left out the 12 year old shot holding a bb gun, as well as the adult shot holding a bb gun in Walmart as well as all these other guys. This isn't a movement that started up because of 2 incidents.

There was legislation passed in the 1980s to require red bands on toy guns for a reason! Because they can be confused with REAL GUNS. The kid that got shot pulled the toy gun WITHOUT THE RED RING out when the cops confronted him.

Sure it's tragic, but I'd like for you to be on patrol as an officer and decide you are going to wait 10 seconds every time someone pulls a gun on you. See how long you last. I'm going to give you a hint here: most of they time they are not toy guns.

Edit to add: if this movement needs a pure example, it should be that guy in South Carolina who just reached for his wallet. Instead they are holding up the aforementioned individuals who have little standing. In South Carolina the guy was fired and is facing criminal charges.

[LawBeefaroni]

I'm sorry, but my sympathy for these protests and this "movement" is starting to rapidly dissolve. So far the martyrs of this whole thing are as follows:

1. A strong armed robbery suspect caught on camera
2. A repeat offender with a 30 deep rapsheet
3. A man who pulled a 9mm handgun out of his pants when being questioned by a police officer.

So we have now arrived at the point where every criminal of color in the United States is going to be held up as a hero when they get into an armed confrontation or resist arrest with a police officer.

Sympathy reaching level ZERO. I'm over this.

Agree that some of these are hard to get behind but they are what the media has run with. For some minorities, it's a daily fight, a death of a thousand cuts, and when a case, any case, gets the national spotlight, it's an opportunity to be recognized. It's unfortunate that some of the chosen causes aren't really good examples of the social and civil biases they're trying to fight. They're just suspects of one color and police of another. I guess that's enough for our un-nuanced national dialog.

[msduncan]

I'm sorry, but my sympathy for these protests and this "movement" is starting to rapidly dissolve. So far the martyrs of this whole thing are as follows:

1. A strong armed robbery suspect caught on camera
2. A repeat offender with a 30 deep rapsheet
3. A man who pulled a 9mm handgun out of his pants when being questioned by a police officer.

So we have now arrived at the point where every criminal of color in the United States is going to be held up as a hero when they get into an armed confrontation or resist arrest with a police officer.

Sympathy reaching level ZERO. I'm over this.

Agree that some of these are hard to get behind but they are what the media has run with. For some minorities, it's a daily fight, a death of a thousand cuts, and when a case, any case, gets the national spotlight, it's an opportunity to be recognized. It's unfortunate that some of the chosen causes aren't really good examples of the social and civil biases they're trying to fight. They're just suspects of one color and police of another. I guess that's enough for our un-nuanced national dialog.

I totally understand that. However, the movement should be that ordinary people are being pulled over a bunch, hassled when they are pulled over, etc. I'm totally ok with that. Holding up these individuals who did things to provoke the outcome is NOT making me sympathetic.

This business that happened last night? Officer uses firearm when a guy pulls a gun on him? Violence and protests immediately break out? Can't get behind it.

I really think the South Carolina guy is the most stark and pure example. He was minding his own business, did as the officer instructed, and got shot for it. That is what we should be talking about. NOT these other guys or even the kid who tragically waved a realistic looking firearm around while being confronted by police. I had a pure white as snow friend in High School who stupidly had a bb gun on his dashboard and when he was confronted by police he said "oh that's just a BB gun" and reached towards it. He was immediately face planted into the concrete, cuffed, and arrested.

[GreenGoo]

And you wonder why the GamersGate "scandal" lost traction after a series of misogynist bullshit surfaced.

I don't need a "movement" or protestors to tell me that another black life was lost. I know. From all accounts so far, I would expect anyone in that situation to be shot dead, whether they're black, white, hispanic, purple, whatever. I think the movement is a legitimate movement. I think the issues are real and the protests are doing a good job of bringing it to the nation's attention. That doesn't mean I have to accept that this guy was another "victim".

I can separate the two quite easily, even if Rev. whatshisname is trying to add this thug to the protest list. I mentioned before that I don't understand the "making shit up" aspect of protests like this, but that doesn't mean there isn't a real issue in there.

So no, I haven't lost patience with the movement.

[msduncan]

And you wonder why the GamersGate "scandal" lost traction after a series of misogynist bullshit surfaced.

I don't need a "movement" or protestors to tell me that another black life was lost. I know. From all accounts so far, I would expect anyone in that situation to be shot dead, whether they're black, white, hispanic, purple, whatever. I think the movement is a legitimate movement. I think the issues are real and the protests are doing a good job of bringing it to the nation's attention. That doesn't mean I have to accept that this guy was another "victim".

I can separate the two quite easily, even if Rev. whatshisname is trying to add this thug to the protest list. I mentioned before that I don't understand the "making shit up" aspect of protests like this, but that doesn't mean there isn't a real issue in there.

So no, I haven't lost patience with the movement.

I think a lot of what you said I agree with. I think it would be more accurate for me personally to say that "I have lost patience with this movement, but not the overall cause of black people being assumed criminal when they aren't".

[Teggy]

I'm sorry, but my sympathy for these protests and this "movement" is starting to rapidly dissolve. So far the martyrs of this whole thing are as follows:

1. A strong armed robbery suspect caught on camera
2. A repeat offender with a 30 deep rapsheet
3. A man who pulled a 9mm handgun out of his pants when being questioned by a police officer.

So we have now arrived at the point where every criminal of color in the United States is going to be held up as a hero when they get into an armed confrontation or resist arrest with a police officer.

Sympathy reaching level ZERO. I'm over this.

You conveniently left out the 12 year old shot holding a bb gun, as well as the adult shot holding a bb gun in Walmart as well as all these other guys. This isn't a movement that started up because of 2 incidents.

There was legislation passed in the 1980s to require red bands on toy guns for a reason! Because they can be confused with REAL GUNS. The kid that got shot pulled the toy gun WITHOUT THE RED RING out when the cops confronted him.

Sure it's tragic, but I'd like for you to be on patrol as an officer and decide you are going to wait 10 seconds every time someone pulls a gun on you. See how long you last. I'm going to give you a hint here: most of they time they are not toy guns.

"The guy keeps pulling it out," the 911 caller said, according to WKYC. "It's probably fake, but you know what, he's scaring the (expletive) out of (inaudible). ... He's sitting on the swing right now, but he keeps pulling it in and out of his pants and pointing it at people. Probably a juvenile, you know? … I don't know if it's real or not, you know?"

Officers claim they asked Rice to put his hands up and he didn't comply. In the video above, the police car comes to a stop at 0:19, and by 0:21 the boy is already doubled over and falling to the ground, mortally wounded. Rice was rushed to the hospital, where he died Sunday morning.

Cops were told it was probably fake and didn't seem to even try and verify. The point is there's a very long list of incidents and after a while people are going to start to notice. You can't just wave away them all by nitpicking that one guy had a record, etc. There's a way that cops are approaching these incidents that's causing them to use lethal force more often.

[LawBeefaroni]

I totally understand that. However, the movement should be that ordinary people are being pulled over a bunch, hassled when they are pulled over, etc. I'm totally ok with that.

CNN doesn't have a special report every time someone gets pulled over for DWB.

That's the problem. I mean it would be hard enough to rally nationwide protests with, "I got pulled over again last night, for no reason!" if it was on CNN, let alone when no one seems to care.

I'm not saying that rallying behind someone who drew on a cop is right or even preferable. Just that I can see how it happens without everyone involved having some dark ulterior motive. Sometimes people agitate for the right things for the wrong reasons.

[GreenGoo]

This business that happened last night? Officer uses firearm when a guy pulls a gun on him? Violence and protests immediately break out? Can't get behind it.

And nor should you. I'm not, either.

That said, there are cultural barriers that we don't experience that make people see the police in a different light. We hear "thug pulls gun, gets shot dead" and think it's unfortunate but what else was the cop supposed to do? We take those words at face value. They (those experiencing disenfranchisment) hear "another black youth shot dead by white cop". Even if they heard "pulled gun first" that just plays to their pre-conceived notion that the cops are doing everything they can to cover up murdering members of their race.

It's a very, very difficult thing to overcome, and these instances just make things worse. Which is why I said "fantastic" earlier. Not because the cop was in the wrong or because of any issue of race involved. I said "fantastic" because this is just fuel for the fire that is already burning fairly brightly. It doesn't matter if it was a legit defensive action that resulted in a citizen dying. Mobs of people aren't known for their subtlety and critical thinking.

[msduncan]

Cops were told it was probably fake and didn't seem to even try and verify. The point is there's a very long list of incidents and after a while people are going to start to notice. You can't just wave away them all by nitpicking that one guy had a record, etc. There's a way that cops are approaching these incidents that's causing them to use lethal force more often.

Cops on the beat were not informed that it may be fake. They simply responded to a report of an individual potentially armed.

I'm not nitpicking. I'm speaking DIRECTLY at the 2 prominent individuals that the #handsupdontshoot movement is holding up as their examples, and they appear to be adding this newest one to the list.

[Teggy]

Cops were told it was probably fake and didn't seem to even try and verify. The point is there's a very long list of incidents and after a while people are going to start to notice. You can't just wave away them all by nitpicking that one guy had a record, etc. There's a way that cops are approaching these incidents that's causing them to use lethal force more often.

Cops on the beat were not informed that it may be fake. They simply responded to a report of an individual potentially armed.

I'm not nitpicking. I'm speaking DIRECTLY at the 2 prominent individuals that the #handsupdontshoot movement is holding up as their examples, and they appear to be adding this newest one to the list.

No, I don't agree that this incident should be included if reports are true.

But I think the movement has plenty of good examples to point to. They should also be highlighting stop and frisk and racial profiling, which have tons of good examples of why tensions are high.

[Pyperkub]

Technically, near Ferguson but not in Ferguson (2 miles away or so). Not that it matters that much. But not a Ferguson officer.

I feel that a couple of miles is "just outside of".

True. Just clarifying.




When does the baby/thug media game begin for this suspect?

Opening move:

“As Christmas Eve dawns, another family mourns a child,” declared the Rev. Osagyefo Sekou, who has been heavily involved in the St. Louis area protests that have gone on since Brown’s shooting death in August. “Another makeshift memorial starts to form for yet another life cut short by the cavalier ‘shoot first, ask questions later’ approach of too many of those charged with protecting and serving,” Sekou’s statement, sent to the media Wednesday morning, said.

The protesters’ attention is most likely to turn to the police narrative of the shooting and the media portrayal of the incident and the victim.

“Mr. Martin either had a gun or didn’t, but by morning he will have morphed into a gun wielding ‘super negro’, firing from bushes with at least two different handguns with his DNA-less hands, displaying his “demon” strength, and “bulking up” before running towards armed police,” Sekou said. “What’s more, we’ll soon know if he ever smoked marijuana, got good grades at school and if he ever took a selfie with a bottle of liquor.”

Soon after the shooting, many of the protesters who gained organization and prominence in Ferguson had sprung into action.

If there was a gun then what was the cop supposed to do?

At least tell him to drop the weapon or he will shoot. The article I read didn't state anything regarding that.