Ferguson, Mo

[$iljanus]

Technically, near Ferguson but not in Ferguson (2 miles away or so). Not that it matters that much. But not a Ferguson officer.

I feel that a couple of miles is "just outside of".

True. Just clarifying.




When does the baby/thug media game begin for this suspect?

Opening move:

“As Christmas Eve dawns, another family mourns a child,” declared the Rev. Osagyefo Sekou, who has been heavily involved in the St. Louis area protests that have gone on since Brown’s shooting death in August. “Another makeshift memorial starts to form for yet another life cut short by the cavalier ‘shoot first, ask questions later’ approach of too many of those charged with protecting and serving,” Sekou’s statement, sent to the media Wednesday morning, said.

The protesters’ attention is most likely to turn to the police narrative of the shooting and the media portrayal of the incident and the victim.

“Mr. Martin either had a gun or didn’t, but by morning he will have morphed into a gun wielding ‘super negro’, firing from bushes with at least two different handguns with his DNA-less hands, displaying his “demon” strength, and “bulking up” before running towards armed police,” Sekou said. “What’s more, we’ll soon know if he ever smoked marijuana, got good grades at school and if he ever took a selfie with a bottle of liquor.”

Soon after the shooting, many of the protesters who gained organization and prominence in Ferguson had sprung into action.

If there was a gun then what was the cop supposed to do?

At least tell him to drop the weapon or he will shoot. The article I read didn't state anything regarding that.

Thing is, if the cop and the suspect were exchanging words followed by the suspect pulling a gun on the cop I don't think you have time to say "drop the weapon" if the suspect has murderous intent. And when you pull a gun on a police officer, your choices become a bit narrower I think.

[LawBeefaroni]

At least tell him to drop the weapon or he will shoot. The article I read didn't state anything regarding that.

Most cops will do this because, despite some common notions, they don't want to shoot people. It's an automatic suspension usually, investigations, mountains of paper, probably hours of interviews. The best outcome for them is that the suspect complies and no shots are fired.

But I don't know that it's ever really required when they're in uniform and especially when a suspect is clearly signalling intent to shoot (i.e. pointing a weapon at the officers as has been claimed in this incident).

[msduncan]

Statement from the Mayor:

The mayor said that video from the confrontation, in the city of Berkeley, appeared to show the teenager pointing a gun at the officer, and police said a handgun was recovered at the scene. Police said the officer feared for his life.

"This was not the same as Ferguson," Mayor Theodore Hoskins said.

He took pains to say that the shooting could not be compared to the police killing of Michael Brown in Ferguson or to the chokehold death of Eric Garner in New York. The mayor, who is black, pointed out that the Berkeley police department is majority-black.

He promised a thorough investigation but said that the video showed it was not a police officer going off "half-cocked."

"Everybody don't die the same," he told reporters. "Some people die because the policeman initiated. Some people die because they initiated it. And at this point, our review indicates that the police did not initiate this, like Ferguson."

The victims mother, predictably, said that her son was just going to see his girlfriend and wasn't armed. Watch any number of shows like First 48, read witness testimony in any number of cases, and you will almost always find the victims friends and family saying the same things. The new development is that "the movement" is taking their testimony as religion in spite of the evidence.

Michael Brown was going to college, right? Right after he grabbed cigars from a store and then jacked up the store owner for trying to stop him from doing so he was going to go register, right?

[LawBeefaroni]

Statement from the Mayor:

The mayor said that video from the confrontation, in the city of Berkeley, appeared to show the teenager pointing a gun at the officer, and police said a handgun was recovered at the scene. Police said the officer feared for his life.

"This was not the same as Ferguson," Mayor Theodore Hoskins said.

He took pains to say that the shooting could not be compared to the police killing of Michael Brown in Ferguson or to the chokehold death of Eric Garner in New York. The mayor, who is black, pointed out that the Berkeley police department is majority-black.

He promised a thorough investigation but said that the video showed it was not a police officer going off "half-cocked."

"Everybody don't die the same," he told reporters. "Some people die because the policeman initiated. Some people die because they initiated it. And at this point, our review indicates that the police did not initiate this, like Ferguson."

Glad there is video.

But man, that last line throws Ferguson under the bus, don'it?

[msduncan]

Statement from the Mayor:

The mayor said that video from the confrontation, in the city of Berkeley, appeared to show the teenager pointing a gun at the officer, and police said a handgun was recovered at the scene. Police said the officer feared for his life.

"This was not the same as Ferguson," Mayor Theodore Hoskins said.

He took pains to say that the shooting could not be compared to the police killing of Michael Brown in Ferguson or to the chokehold death of Eric Garner in New York. The mayor, who is black, pointed out that the Berkeley police department is majority-black.

He promised a thorough investigation but said that the video showed it was not a police officer going off "half-cocked."

"Everybody don't die the same," he told reporters. "Some people die because the policeman initiated. Some people die because they initiated it. And at this point, our review indicates that the police did not initiate this, like Ferguson."

Glad there is video.

But man, that last line throws Ferguson under the bus, don'it?

Probably just the Mayor trying to draw a clear line of separation to defend his town and police force by distancing himself from Ferguson as much as possible.

[Isgrimnur]

Michael Brown was going to college, right? Right after he grabbed cigars from a store and then jacked up the store owner for trying to stop him from doing so he was going to go register, right?

Hate to break it to you, but there are criminals in college, too.

[Rip]

Michael Brown was going to college, right? Right after he grabbed cigars from a store and then jacked up the store owner for trying to stop him from doing so he was going to go register, right?

Hate to break it to you, but there are criminals in college, too.

Hell, there are criminals teaching college, but I digress.

[Pyperkub]

At least tell him to drop the weapon or he will shoot. The article I read didn't state anything regarding that.

Most cops will do this because, despite some common notions, they don't want to shoot people. It's an automatic suspension usually, investigations, mountains of paper, probably hours of interviews. The best outcome for them is that the suspect complies and no shots are fired.

But I don't know that it's ever really required when they're in uniform and especially when a suspect is clearly signalling intent to shoot (i.e. pointing a weapon at the officers as has been claimed in this incident).

Agreed, but when you read about cop shooting times of 2 seconds after arrival on the scene (not necessarily in this case), you tend to want to be sure.

[Pyperkub]

Funny that story gets mentioned here and not the story of the 2 NYPD cops who were assassinated in retaliation for the Garner/Brown incidents.

You're right, that *IS* hilarious.

See, the thing is that we went over the access to guns of mentally ill people in the Sandy Hook thread. Word on the street is that the killer would have failed a background check after his 19 arrests, etc.:

nvestigators have traced the gun Ismaaiyl Brinsley used to kill two New York City police officers and wound his ex-girlfriend to a Georgia strip mall 900 miles away. The Arrowhead pawn shop, which bills itself as a “family-owned business dedicated to good prices, good customer service and good vibes,” as of 2010 was the fifth-largest source of guns used in crimes nationally and the number-one source of out-of-state guns seized by the New York Police Department...

...Brinsley was barred from owning a gun because he had committed multiple felonies; if he had to complete a background check, he would have failed it. But he never had to complete a background check. ...

...New York requires all gun sales, including private ones, to pass a background check. Georgia does not. It also has no penalties for straw purchasers who buy firearms legally for someone who can't. It also doesn't mandate that gun owners file a police report when their gun goes missing. In 2014, Georgia's weakened its laws even further, and now gun owners can carry firearms into bars, classrooms, government buildings, and even TSA airport checkpoints. Felons are allowed to invoke the controversial Stand Your Ground defense, meaning they don’t have the obligation to retreat if they feel their life is threatened. Georgia’s own murder rate is 27 percent above the national average, and has the 13th most permissible gun laws in the nation, according to a Daily Beast analysis.

The 5th largest source of guns for criminals in the USA is a pawnshop in Georgia. And #1 for out of state usage in NY. Hmmm.

[Pyperkub]

Some interesting information:

While recent killings by police in Ferguson, Missouri, and New York City receive national attention, the fact is that from 1999 through 2011, American law enforcement officers killed 4,531 people, 96 percent by firearms and 96 percent of them men, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.*

The upward trend since 2000 is disturbing. 9/11 Maybe?

[msduncan]

Interesting graphs, which in large part can be explained NOT by racism but by pure numbers:

According to the US Department of Justice, blacks accounted for 52.5% of homicide offenders from 1980 to 2008, with whites 45.3% and "Other" 2.2%. The offending rate for blacks was almost 8 times higher than whites (per 100,000), and the victim rate 6 times higher (per 100,000). Most murders were intraracial, with 84% of white homicide victims murdered by whites, and 93% of black victims murdered by blacks.

So blacks are accounting for 52.5% of homicides even though they are 13.2% of the population. Therefore you can assume that they are going to 1) run afoul of the police a larger percentage of the time relative to their population numbers and 2) get into violent confrontations with police a larger percentage of the time relative to their population numbers.

[GreenGoo]

Even if we assumed that you are correct, unless you believe that the colour of someone's skin makes them more prone to violent crime, there is a still a cultural issue. You (you as in the US) aren't off the hook just yet.

[Rip]

Even if we assumed that you are correct, unless you believe that the colour of someone's skin makes them more prone to violent crime, there is a still a cultural issue. You (you as in the US) aren't off the hook just yet.

Of course there is, you don't have to listen to very much music to realize that.

[msduncan]

It is absolutely culture, or repercussions from poverty, or something like that. Not color of the skin or differences between races.

[Grifman]

The cctv tape of the most recent shooting is available online. If the dead person didn't have a gun, he sure acted like it. You can clearly see him pull something out quickly and "aim" it at the cop. The way he holds and points the object, it certainly looks like a gun. Frankly it happens so quick, I don't know how the officer even has time to respond, but he does.

[LordMortis]

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/nation ... story.html

Something feels off when we can let sports riots happen but political protests are met in force.

WCMH-TV, showing images of revelers burning a couch, reported Tuesday that police arrested a handful of students who could face both criminal and university charges.

While I get it's apples and oranges, if just feels wrong.

Why do Sports victories end in riots rather than sports losses? It's sort of backwards from what normally causes them.

[stessier]

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/nation ... story.html

Something feels off when we can let sports riots happen but political protests are met in force.

WCMH-TV, showing images of revelers burning a couch, reported Tuesday that police arrested a handful of students who could face both criminal and university charges.

While I get it's apples and oranges, if just feels wrong.

Why do Sports victories end in riots rather than sports losses? It's sort of backwards from what normally causes them.

It makes sense that a Detroiter would have no frame of reference for this.

[LordMortis]

It makes sense that a Detroiter would have no frame of reference for this.

Detroit doesn't do this for championships except for when Tigers won in '84. It made no sense then either.

I was caught in the middle of the first Fab Five riot in Ann Arbor during the final four matchup. We were playing pinball on South U when all hell broke loose. Moments after they won, the streets were so full you couldn't get anywhere even by foot, cars were overturned, and they were ripping down traffic lights all within a single viewing distance. How the police did not prepare for that to get worse as series progressed is baffling. Ultimately, they blamed it on high school kids at the hash bash. Seriously?

East Lansing look for an excuse to riot every year.

[LawBeefaroni]

It makes sense that a Detroiter would have no frame of reference for this.

Detroit doesn't do this for championships except for when Tigers won in '84. It made no sense then either.

I was caught in the middle of the first Fab Five riot in Ann Arbor during the final four matchup. We were playing pinball on South U when all hell broke loose. Moments after they won, the streets were so full you couldn't get anywhere even by foot, cars were overturned, and they were ripping down traffic lights all within a single viewing distance. How the police did not prepare for that to get worse as series progressed is baffling. Ultimately, they blamed it on high school kids at the hash bash. Seriously?

When I went to work the next morning I found a lighted Walk sign in the alley. I took it home, installed a plug and a rocker switch, and it still works to this day.


To Stessier's point ( ), mostly true but I don't recall much rioting when the Red Wings won. I was around for 2 Cups.





And it always happens in college towns because kids + alcohol.

[Moliere]

Federal report on Ferguson police finds history of discrimination

The Justice Department has nearly completed a highly critical report accusing the police in Ferguson, Mo., of making discriminatory traffic stops of African Americans that created years of racial animosity leading up to an officer’s shooting of a black teenager last summer, law enforcement officials said.

According to several officials who have been briefed on the report’s conclusions, the report criticizes the city for disproportionately ticketing and arresting African Americans and relying on the fines to balance the city’s budget. The report, which is expected to be released as early as this week, will force Ferguson officials to either negotiate a settlement with the Justice Department or face being sued by it on civil rights charges. Either way, the result is likely to be significant changes inside the Ferguson Police Department, which is at the center of a national debate over race and policing.

[Rip]

Federal report on Ferguson police finds history of discrimination

The Justice Department has nearly completed a highly critical report accusing the police in Ferguson, Mo., of making discriminatory traffic stops of African Americans that created years of racial animosity leading up to an officer’s shooting of a black teenager last summer, law enforcement officials said.

According to several officials who have been briefed on the report’s conclusions, the report criticizes the city for disproportionately ticketing and arresting African Americans and relying on the fines to balance the city’s budget. The report, which is expected to be released as early as this week, will force Ferguson officials to either negotiate a settlement with the Justice Department or face being sued by it on civil rights charges. Either way, the result is likely to be significant changes inside the Ferguson Police Department, which is at the center of a national debate over race and policing.

After all the hoopla that is all they could find.

[Moliere]

After all the hoopla that is all they could find.

I can't imagine why the minority population would be upset that they were targeted by the police and used by the city to bolster the budget. What's the big deal?

[GreenGoo]

Federal report on Ferguson police finds history of discrimination

The Justice Department has nearly completed a highly critical report accusing the police in Ferguson, Mo., of making discriminatory traffic stops of African Americans that created years of racial animosity leading up to an officer’s shooting of a black teenager last summer, law enforcement officials said.

According to several officials who have been briefed on the report’s conclusions, the report criticizes the city for disproportionately ticketing and arresting African Americans and relying on the fines to balance the city’s budget. The report, which is expected to be released as early as this week, will force Ferguson officials to either negotiate a settlement with the Justice Department or face being sued by it on civil rights charges. Either way, the result is likely to be significant changes inside the Ferguson Police Department, which is at the center of a national debate over race and policing.

After all the hoopla that is all they could find.

Eh? That's what they were being investigated for. I mean, spin is one thing, but to claim a guilty verdict is a win is pretty funny.

[Rip]

Federal report on Ferguson police finds history of discrimination

The Justice Department has nearly completed a highly critical report accusing the police in Ferguson, Mo., of making discriminatory traffic stops of African Americans that created years of racial animosity leading up to an officer’s shooting of a black teenager last summer, law enforcement officials said.

According to several officials who have been briefed on the report’s conclusions, the report criticizes the city for disproportionately ticketing and arresting African Americans and relying on the fines to balance the city’s budget. The report, which is expected to be released as early as this week, will force Ferguson officials to either negotiate a settlement with the Justice Department or face being sued by it on civil rights charges. Either way, the result is likely to be significant changes inside the Ferguson Police Department, which is at the center of a national debate over race and policing.

After all the hoopla that is all they could find.

Eh? That's what they were being investigated for. I mean, spin is one thing, but to claim a guilty verdict is a win is pretty funny.

No they were there to investigate the shooting expecting they could hang some charges on the officers involved or the police department for the aftermath. In the end all they could find was some disproportionate ticketing. Which to me sounds like ticket affirmative action or something. Have to wait till I read more of the stuff to decide if even the ticket writing issues are based on anything of substance. The fact that they are pushing for a settlement makes me think no but as is often the case taking a settlement may be more cost effective.

edit to add: It really isn't a verdict either, just a report

[El Guapo]

Federal report on Ferguson police finds history of discrimination

The Justice Department has nearly completed a highly critical report accusing the police in Ferguson, Mo., of making discriminatory traffic stops of African Americans that created years of racial animosity leading up to an officer’s shooting of a black teenager last summer, law enforcement officials said.

According to several officials who have been briefed on the report’s conclusions, the report criticizes the city for disproportionately ticketing and arresting African Americans and relying on the fines to balance the city’s budget. The report, which is expected to be released as early as this week, will force Ferguson officials to either negotiate a settlement with the Justice Department or face being sued by it on civil rights charges. Either way, the result is likely to be significant changes inside the Ferguson Police Department, which is at the center of a national debate over race and policing.

After all the hoopla that is all they could find.

Eh? That's what they were being investigated for. I mean, spin is one thing, but to claim a guilty verdict is a win is pretty funny.

No they were there to investigate the shooting expecting they could hang some charges on the officers involved or the police department for the aftermath. In the end all they could find was some disproportionate ticketing. Which to me sounds like ticket affirmative action or something. Have to wait till I read more of the stuff to decide if even the ticket writing issues are based on anything of substance. The fact that they are pushing for a settlement makes me think no but as is often the case taking a settlement may be more cost effective.

edit to add: It really isn't a verdict either, just a report

No, from the beginning DOJ had two mandates: (1) investigate the shooting to determine if there were civil rights charges; and (2) investigate the broader civil rights practices of the Ferguson PD. They found that there was no basis for #1, but that there was a basis for #2. It's not a tack on action of any type nor derivative of their shooting investigative authority - DOJ has investigated a number of local PDs for broad civil rights practices - this is another type of action along those lines.

You are right that it's not a verdict, but it's not really just a report either - it amounts to a "sue or settle" threat to the Ferguson PD - come up with a package of reforms or we will sue you. The settlement aspect does not indicate anything about the strength of the case - almost any action will have some type of "can we work something out" before you bring the suit, as a settlement not only saves you money but also mitigates litigation risk (and political risk for the Obama administration, of course). The strength of the case would naturally impact leverage in settlement negotiations, so a weak settlement (if it is reached) would suggest a weak underlying case.

[GreenGoo]

My dictionary says it's a verdict. Also, I knew you would jump all over the word, which is why I used it.

[Zarathud]

The local government is found to regularly abuse the Fourth Amendment liberties of its citizens and you applaud? Seriously?

[GreenGoo]

The local government is found to regularly abuse the Fourth Amendment liberties of its citizens and you applaud? Seriously?

He thinks it was a witch hunt and no witches got burned, hence justice won out.

[Zarathud]

Ah, the underlying pattern of police misacting was just collateral damage. Carry on, nothing to see here.

[Moliere]

Ferguson's Conspiracy Against Black Citizens

This week, the Department of Justice concluded that there is no evidence to disprove Officer Wilson's claim that he feared for his life during the encounter. And the federal agency also presented context that explains why so many black residents assumed foul play and took to the streets in protest: For years, Ferguson's police force has meted out brutality, violated civil rights, and helped Ferguson officials to leech off the black community as shamelessly as would mafia bosses.

[Grifman]

There's a lot more behind the first sentence above that there was no evidence to support civil rights charges. Not only was there no evidence but the FBI found that the most credible witnesses and the forensic evidence supported the officer's version of events - Brown was not surrendering but was, indeed, coming towards Wilson when he was shot. There never was a "Hands up, don't shoot" moment. This has been buried by the publicity about the findings about the a Ferguson PD, but it should have gotten more press.

[Defiant]

2 officers shot in Ferguson

[El Guapo]

That's bad.

[GreenGoo]

That's bad.

Gah. Well that's sure to solve any remaining tension.

[em2nought]

Hey I know, lets coddle more evil doers. Wanna sign a petition to have me charged with "treason"?

[hepcat]

Who's coddling the people who shot the officers?

[Smoove_B]

Who's coddling the people who shot the officers?

The people that didn't order tanks to be driven over the protesters?

[Grifman]

2 officers shot in Ferguson

Hands up, don't shoot!

[hepcat]

Holder calls out the damn punks who shot the officers.

[em2nought]

Holder calls out the damn punks who shot the officers.

I wish he'd make up his mind about which side he's on.