Ferguson, Mo

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msduncan
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Ferguson, Mo

Post by msduncan »

I oppose militarization of police forces. I oppose it when they target ranchers along the Texas/Oklahoma border. I oppose it when they bulk purchase high powered firearms for postal workers. I oppose it when they confiscate firearms from legal owners in New Orleans after a storm like Katrina. I oppose it when they search house to house in Boston for terror suspects with no regard to the 4th Amendment.

I also oppose it when they roll out machines of war against people who happen to look a little different from me, probably don't vote the same way I do, and live in cities like Ferguson Missouri.
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Re: Ferguson, Mo

Post by Isgrimnur »

Here's an actual link

It does look like the force needs some investigation:
Blacks make up 65% of Ferguson's population, yet they accounted for 86% of traffic stops, 93% of arrests after stops and 92% of searches after stops in the city last year, according to a racial profiling report by the Missouri attorney general.

When stopped by police, blacks in Ferguson were twice as likely as whites to be arrested -- even though police found contraband for 34% of whites they stopped and searched, versus 22% of blacks -- said Scott Decker, a criminologist on a team contracted by the attorney general's office to compile the data.
...
The Ferguson Police Department has 53 total commissioned officers, three of whom are black and two of whom are other minorities; the rest are white, the police chief told the Los Angeles Times. Three of the officers are women and 50 are men, he said.
However, the population rioting, looting, and burning down business isn't exactly giving them the moral high ground, either.

There's plenty of shitty behavior on both sides. The FBI and Justice Department are investigating, and I doubt they're going to stop with just investigating the initial incident.
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Re: Ferguson, Mo

Post by AWS260 »

What the fuck is wrong with the police in Missouri? Why on God's green earth do they need massive quantities of tactical military gear? And if you somehow accept that they need this gear for some theoretical nightmare scenario (North Korean invasion?), why on earth do they need to bring it out to deal with this modest crowd of peaceful protesters?

[edit]And while there was rioting on Sunday, everything since then has been some form of protest. Which is apparently illegal in Missouri, where police can arbitrarily declare that your protest is "no longer a peaceful protest" and start lobbing tear gas. Where police will tear gas you for standing in your own backyard. Or arrest you for patronizing a McDonalds.
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Re: Ferguson, Mo

Post by malchior »

The best part was most of the looters were not members of the community and just were opportunistic vultures. Still the police managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of PR victory by being completely unreasonable shit bags. They told a crowd to disperse but had blocked off the exits and then tear gassed the crowd. They aimed live ammo weapons at crowds of protesters for absolutely no reason. They have arrested reporters and abused them physically. They are complete clown shoes and my guiding assumption is they are going to definitely end up under federal monitoring based on their conduct.
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Re: Ferguson, Mo

Post by Grifman »

AWS260 wrote:What the fuck is wrong with the police in Missouri? Why on God's green earth do they need massive quantities of tactical military gear? And if you somehow accept that they need this gear for some theoretical nightmare scenario (North Korean invasion?), why on earth do they need to bring it out to deal with this modest crowd of peaceful protesters?

[edit]And while there was rioting on Sunday, everything since then has been some form of protest. Which is apparently illegal in Missouri, where police can arbitrarily declare that your protest is "no longer a peaceful protest" and start lobbing tear gas. Where police will tear gas you for standing in your own backyard. Or arrest you for patronizing a McDonalds.
This is insane, it's clearly a department that is out of control. There needs to be a house cleaning here starting at the too. The police need to realize they work for the people.
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Re: Ferguson, Mo

Post by msduncan »

We will see more of this as police across the country continue to militarize. If you think it can't happen in your back yard, wait and see.
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Re: Ferguson, Mo

Post by AWS260 »

Tons of photos and updates on Twitter: https://twitter.com/hashtag/ferguson
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Re: Ferguson, Mo

Post by malchior »

Video just prior to one of the reporters getting arrested - that conduct is outrageous. I'd like to know what the basis was for ordering this man to leave the restaurant in the first place.

Edit: Apparently they were "trespassing". The police know there are reporters everywhere - what knuckleheads. They figuratively can't stop themselves from tripping over their own dicks.
Arrests of two reporters covering #Ferguson protests was "probably by somebody who didn't know better," chief says.
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AWS260
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Re: Ferguson, Mo

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Re: Ferguson, Mo

Post by Grifman »

Arrests of two reporters covering #Ferguson protests was "probably by somebody who didn't know better," chief says.
Bull crap. And if they didn't "know better", then the chief should be fired for failing to properly instruct and train his officers in observing constitutional rights. This goes straight to the top - the chief has clearly failed to do his job. At best he's incompetent, at worst he has abetted and encouraged such behavior.
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Re: Ferguson, Mo

Post by Isgrimnur »

Nice to see Missouri is going to get their very own Tulia treatment.
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Re: Ferguson, Mo

Post by Grifman »


Crazy, the police just told the media to turn off their cameras! What kind of crap is that?! The police need to de-escalate the situation. As long as the people are being peaceful, let them blow off some steam and protest. Action by the police is only going to make the problem worse.
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Re: Ferguson, Mo

Post by AWS260 »

Watching that livestream right now, it's just shameful. Shameful. A crowd of maybe three dozen protestors was standing across a street with their hands up, with a line of many, many police in SWAT gear about 50 yards away. Where I'm from, the next step is usually for the cops to come forward and arrest the protestors for blocking the street. In Missouri, standard practice is apparently to unleash a volley of tear gas grenades and rubber bullets, then chase the protestors into a residential neighborhood.
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Re: Ferguson, Mo

Post by malchior »

A picture just popped up of supposed tear gas deployed near an Al Jazeera America news crew. That'll look good on film.
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Re: Ferguson, Mo

Post by malchior »

BTW - is there a Governor in MO? Seems like some leadership is badly needed out there right now.
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Re: Ferguson, Mo

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Re: Ferguson, Mo

Post by msduncan »

USA Today

This is one of those rare occasions these days when Americans can be on the same page with one another regardless of party affiliation.
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malchior
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Re: Ferguson, Mo

Post by malchior »

This morning Anonymous released the name of who they believe is the shooter and also released PII about the Chief of Police in Ferguson Jon Belmar - including name, address, DOB, SSN, past residences, etc. They are now demanding confirmation about the shooter's identity or they will start releasing information about him and others. This is some crazy shit.
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Re: Ferguson, Mo

Post by Holman »

The shooter's identity has been known to the community since the beginning. There were witnesses, and this was a cop with a reputation.
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Re: Ferguson, Mo

Post by Grifman »

Two other witnesses with no ties to the deceased both corroborate the story his friend told:

http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/14/us/missou ... ?hpt=hp_t1
The women's accounts corroborate that of a previous witness, all three of whom said the officer fatally shot the unarmed teen.

Police have said the black 18-year-old died in a dangerous struggle after trying to grab the officer's weapon. Not so, say the witnesses.

"It looked as if Michael was pushing off and the cop was trying to pull him in," Tiffany Mitchell told CNN on Wednesday night.

Mitchell said she drove to Ferguson on Saturday to pick up an employee for work just in time to see Brown tussling at the window of a police vehicle.

She and the employee, Piaget Crenshaw, told CNN's Don Lemon late Wednesday about Brown's last moments.

Crenshaw, still in her building, watched the same events from her window. She later shot cell phone video of the aftermath, which CNN obtained from affiliate KMOV.

It looked like the two of them were arm wrestling, she said.

Neither woman, who gave their statements to St. Louis County police, say they saw Brown enter the vehicle.

Instead, a shot went off, then the teen broke free, and the officer got out of the vehicle in pursuit, the women said.

"I saw the police chase him ... down the street and shoot him down," Crenshaw said. Brown ran about 20 feet.

"Michael jerks his body, as if he's been hit," Mitchell said.

Then he faced the officer and put his hands in the air, but the officer kept firing, both women said. He sank to the pavement.
Cop shot him down while he was surrendering. They have 3 witnesses that contradict the account given by the policeman. Sounds like he should be arrested immediately and charged. What more evidence do they need?
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Re: Ferguson, Mo

Post by msteelers »

Well the cops are too busy rioting in the streets to be expected to investigate a murder.
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Re: Ferguson, Mo

Post by Jag »

msduncan wrote:USA Today

This is one of those rare occasions these days when Americans can be on the same page with one another regardless of party affiliation.
I agree. I was riveted to social media last night. The police were clearly out looking for trouble. I'm also shocked how little mainstream press this is getting.
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Re: Ferguson, Mo

Post by msteelers »

Jag wrote:
msduncan wrote:USA Today

This is one of those rare occasions these days when Americans can be on the same page with one another regardless of party affiliation.
I agree. I was riveted to social media last night. The police were clearly out looking for trouble. I'm also shocked how little mainstream press this is getting.
The lack of press has been shameful. Supposedly MSNBC went wall-to-wall coverage last night, which this deserves. But CNN barely had anything and Fox had nothing. I've noticed this morning though it's starting to get more attention. We talked about it this morning on our morning show, and ABC news has led with it as their top story.
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Re: Ferguson, Mo

Post by Scraper »

I have long held the position that we should not predominately be hiring ex-military members to form our police force. The police are not supposed to be "Us vs Them" which is what they have become and they bring with that a military mindset where their survival is more important than what their actual goal/purpose is. Their purpose is to serve the people by enforcing laws, not turn the people as a collective group into the enemy.

I don't mean to say that a police force shouldn't have any ex-military in it, it's just that it shouldn't be predominately made up of ex-military members like many of our police forces are. You know who they are when you see them too, they're usually flat topped, jacked up, hot heads. These are the police that give the other police a bad name. And it's been happening ever since the insane "War on Drugs" started under Nixon.

Any time you start calling police work a "War" that is not a good thing.
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Re: Ferguson, Mo

Post by Jag »

Making the rounds on Twitter.

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Re: Ferguson, Mo

Post by Jag »

The most chilling thing I heard last night were repeated calls by the police over loudspeakers telling people to turn off their cameras.

Here they fire tear gas at an Al-Jazeera news team and then TAKE THE CAMERAS!

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Re: Ferguson, Mo

Post by Exodor »

Jag wrote:The most chilling thing I heard last night were repeated calls by the police over loudspeakers telling people to turn off their cameras.

Here they fire tear gas at an Al-Jazeera news team and then TAKE THE CAMERAS!
According to CNN they didn't take them:
A tear gas canister landed directly in front of the live television reporting position of Al Jazeera America; the crew ran, leaving its equipment behind. Then an officer later approached the camera and pointed it at the ground, CNN affiliate KSDK reported.
Still the police actions in Ferguson are completely disgusting - and have guaranteed that their every action will be filmed for the foreseeable future.
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Re: Ferguson, Mo

Post by Anonymous Bosch »

Exodor wrote:Still the police actions in Ferguson are completely disgusting - and have guaranteed that their every action will be filmed for the foreseeable future.
Indeed, MO police are seemingly unaware of the Streisand effect.
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Re: Ferguson, Mo

Post by Smoove_B »

Not that I want to turn this into a gun debate, but I expect this kind of response when I hear that a group of people are openly carrying AR-15s in a restaurant. I also don't know how in the year 2014 those police officers expect there to be some type scenario where every thing they're doing isn't being filmed by dozens of people. Not that they should be behaving a particular way because they know they're being filmed, just the idea that part of their tactics would be to try and squash video evidence.

When I saw that people from Gaza were tweeting tips to the residents of Ferguson on how to deal with tear gas...I mean really, man.
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Re: Ferguson, Mo

Post by malchior »

There are some initial reports (via Twitter) that the Governor will announce that the St. Louis County police are being removed from the situation. Who steps in? State Police?

Also check out this video of Antonio French (an alderman from St. Louis) who was documenting events. There is a good reason to remove these clowns from the situation.
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Re: Ferguson, Mo

Post by Holman »

malchior wrote:There are some initial reports (via Twitter) that the Governor will announce that the St. Louis County police are being removed from the situation. Who steps in? State Police?
National Guard? State Police probably don't have reserve manpower to cover this on top of their regular duties.

EDIT: The governor has announced that State Police and federal authorities will be taking over.
Last edited by Holman on Thu Aug 14, 2014 11:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ferguson, Mo

Post by malchior »

Based on this video - there should be a criminal investigation into who ordered this. They intentionally tear gassed reporters. End of story - there were no protesters nearby.
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Re: Ferguson, Mo

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Scraper wrote:I don't mean to say that a police force shouldn't have any ex-military in it, it's just that it shouldn't be predominately made up of ex-military members like many of our police forces are. You know who they are when you see them too, they're usually flat topped, jacked up, hot heads. These are the police that give the other police a bad name. And it's been happening ever since the insane "War on Drugs" started under Nixon.
I have friends that are CPD and when we go out, sometimes we end up with a lot of those ex-military cops who still think they're military. I generally leave and go somewhere else. A lot of those guys are complete assholes on and off the job. Fortunately in a large department like CPD they're still a minority and their co-workers dislike their attitude as much as anyone.

OTOH, I know this guy. He trains SWAT snipers but is the antethesis of the crew-cut, jacked-up, hothead. He shows up to NATO riot duty (IE, press facing) with non-reg facial hair and gets away with it.
Last edited by LawBeefaroni on Thu Aug 14, 2014 11:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ferguson, Mo

Post by LawBeefaroni »

AWS260 wrote: Or arrest you for patronizing a McDonalds.
Heard this story in this guy's own words. It's not as bad as the headlines make it out to be. They were trying to clear out of the McDonalds (not sure why, but everyone was getting cleared out, not just the reporter). The two reporters were in there writing and charging their devices. They took a long time to gather up all their stuff while filming at the same time and the police got impatient. They told him to turn off his camera and just get his stuff and get out. Then he said he didn't know which door exit to use and then his backpack started falling off. Harmless stuff but to a copper trying to clear the place out it might look like he's diliberately stalling/being a dick so they cuffed him and took him downtown.

Overkill maybe but not like they stormed in and gathered up any reporters they found, like some outlets were reporting.
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malchior
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Re: Ferguson, Mo

Post by malchior »

LawBeefaroni wrote:
AWS260 wrote: Or arrest you for patronizing a McDonalds.
Heard this story in this guy's own words. It's not as bad as the headlines make it out to be. They were trying to clear out of the McDonalds (not sure why, but everyone was getting cleared out, not just the reporter). The two reporters were in there writing and charging their devices. They took a long time to gather up all their stuff while filming at the same time and the police got impatient. They told him to turn off his camera and just get his stuff and get out. Then he said he didn't know which door exit to use and then his backpack started falling off. Harmless stuff but to a copper trying to clear the place out it might look like he's diliberately stalling/being a dick so they cuffed him and took him downtown.

Overkill maybe but not like they stormed in and gathered up any reporters they found, like some outlets were reporting.
Right but still - did they have authority to clear the restaurant? I heard accounts that the manager of the restaurant wanted to remain open and was ordered to close. Was that lawful? If not then their detention was unlawful. Otherwise there were definitely indicators that they were targeting reporters but maybe not in *this case*. However that they won't provide information to the reporters about their own arrest is troubling and the lack of process/professionalism (knocking head into glass) demonstrated is troubling. This is an organization that appears not to be well run and it shows in everything they do.

At least it is providing some incentive to get the events covered by the national media. That this has been basically a twitter event is really damning in my mind. The media has been completely derelict in its duties.
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Re: Ferguson, Mo

Post by Chaz »

The stories I read made it sound like the McDonalds was acting as a kind of home base for a few reporters, since it gave them a place to charge devices and access wifi (and get a Big Mac, fries, and a shake!). If it was being used that way, and if there was a concerted effort by the police to try and shut down news reports, then it makes sense for them to have shut the place down. Yeah, they closed it to everyone, but their main goal was likely to roust the journalists.
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Re: Ferguson, Mo

Post by SlapBone »

The most important thing is that these cops get home safely, so they can come back tomorrow and shoot more unarmed kids and violate more civil rights.
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Re: Ferguson, Mo

Post by malchior »

Oh Anonymous! They released the name and pictures of the police officer who kicked off the whole thing but the Ferguson PD says it is the wrong guy. Wah wah wahhhh.
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Re: Ferguson, Mo

Post by El Guapo »

Maybe Anonymous and the Ferguson PD can play a good round of Guess Who?

"Does the officer have a mustache?" No.
"Ok...does the officer have a crew cut?"
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Re: Ferguson, Mo

Post by Scraper »

malchior wrote:Based on this video - there should be a criminal investigation into who ordered this. They intentionally tear gassed reporters. End of story - there were no protesters nearby.

Look at the cop with the automatic weapon in that video. There is absolutely no threat to the police in that situation (One could easily argue the only threat was caused by the police) and yet he is standing at full ready with the weapon drawn sweeping the area like he is looking for enemies to kill. Disgusting, and it just shows their mind set almost more so than the actual smoke bomb being launched at a news crew.
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