Religion Randomness

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Defiant
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Defiant »

Kosher Pork!
Rabbi Yuval Cherlow told Ynet in an interview published Wednesday that cloned meat is not subject to the rules that apply to the consumption of regular meat.
In the interview, Cherlow of the Tzohar Rabbinical Organization appears to be talking about meat that is grown artificially in a laboratory from the cells of a pig, rather than meat produced from a live pig whose genetic material comes from a cell from which the pig was cloned. However, the article does not quote him as making the distinction.
Yeah, I would assume artificially grown meat is what he's referring to
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Ralph-Wiggum
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Ralph-Wiggum »

Not sure why being grown the laboratory would make the meat kosher. In fact, I would think any lab grown meat would be unkosher since, if a mammal, it wouldn’t have cloves hooves and be a ruminant and if a fish it would have scales.
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Defiant
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Defiant »

Ralph-Wiggum wrote: Sat Mar 24, 2018 12:04 pm Not sure why being grown the laboratory would make the meat kosher. In fact, I would think any lab grown meat would be unkosher since, if a mammal, it wouldn’t have cloves hooves and be a ruminant and if a fish it would have scales.
But would petri dish grown cells be mammals or fish? Can it, for example, be considered warm blooded if it has no blood? (That's not a religious question, but just an example of the kinds of questions that need to be considered)
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Grifman »

An interesting article on the out sized role atheism plays in the alt-right, and how some have a tendency to tolerate racism, misogyny and anti-Muslim bias:

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/3k7j ... alt-right
The problem is more widespread than figures like Spencer and Fisher, too. While championing liberal views on some issues, many of atheism’s most prominent advocates—the majority of whom are, like me, cisgender white men—have expressed troubling sentiments that align with views held by the alt-right and faced little to no consequences.

Last year Sam Harris hosted Charles Murray—who has famously argued that black people are genetically predisposed to lower IQs than whites—on his immensely popular podcast, calling Murray a victim of “a politically correct moral panic.” Harris has in the past called for profiling “Muslims, or anyone who looks like he or she could conceivably be Muslim.” (When I challenged him on this, he suggested I “wear a t-shirt stating ‘There is no God and I am Gay’ in Islamic countries and report back on [my] experiences.”) Outspoken atheist Bill Maher rightly came under fire last summer for using racist language on air. He has also argued that “most Muslim people in the world do condone violence,” told “transgendered” [ sic] people to be quiet, and gave alt-right darling Milo Yiannopoulos a sympathetic interview on his HBO show. Lawrence Krauss, a popular skeptic who now faces numerous sexual harassment allegations, has criticized the #MeToo movement. Richard Dawkins, perhaps the most famous atheist in the world, has mocked women for speaking out about experiences of sexual harassment, shared a video ridiculing feminists, and railed against “SJWs” (short for “social justice warriors,” a derisive term for social justice activists). Look beyond atheism’s biggest names and you will find vocal Trump supporters like author Robert M. Price and immensely popular atheist YouTubers with more than a million subscribers. Their views are likely shared by more atheists than many would like to admit.
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Holman »

Grifman wrote: Fri Apr 06, 2018 9:54 pm An interesting article on the out sized role atheism plays in the alt-right, and how some have a tendency to tolerate racism, misogyny and anti-Muslim bias:
[...]
There are as many styles of atheism as there are styles of theism. Some of them are reactionary and bigoted and despicable.

But it's also clear that most American and European Islamophobia presents as a reactionary defense of white Christian culture in the same way that organized white supremacy has always claimed to defend white Christian civilization.

Enlightened Westerners like ourselves can't write this off very easily. Just like Islam, Christianity has been deeply stained by the hatred and violence perpetrated in its name.
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Holman »

This short twitter thread is amazing. Maybe it's all made up, I don't know, but it rings true, and it's a riot.


link

tl;dr:
Talented 16-year-old Jewish/Catholic kid is asked by a well-meaning parish nun to work up a hip, approachable Passion Play for the youth group. He winds up basically inventing a Gnostic gospel, and it's a hit across several local denominations.
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Moliere »

Grifman wrote: Fri Apr 06, 2018 9:54 pm An interesting article on the out sized role atheism plays in the alt-right, and how some have a tendency to tolerate racism, misogyny and anti-Muslim bias:

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/3k7j ... alt-right
The problem is more widespread than figures like Spencer and Fisher, too. While championing liberal views on some issues, many of atheism’s most prominent advocates—the majority of whom are, like me, cisgender white men—have expressed troubling sentiments that align with views held by the alt-right and faced little to no consequences.

Last year Sam Harris hosted Charles Murray—who has famously argued that black people are genetically predisposed to lower IQs than whites—on his immensely popular podcast, calling Murray a victim of “a politically correct moral panic.” Harris has in the past called for profiling “Muslims, or anyone who looks like he or she could conceivably be Muslim.” (When I challenged him on this, he suggested I “wear a t-shirt stating ‘There is no God and I am Gay’ in Islamic countries and report back on [my] experiences.”) Outspoken atheist Bill Maher rightly came under fire last summer for using racist language on air. He has also argued that “most Muslim people in the world do condone violence,” told “transgendered” [ sic] people to be quiet, and gave alt-right darling Milo Yiannopoulos a sympathetic interview on his HBO show. Lawrence Krauss, a popular skeptic who now faces numerous sexual harassment allegations, has criticized the #MeToo movement. Richard Dawkins, perhaps the most famous atheist in the world, has mocked women for speaking out about experiences of sexual harassment, shared a video ridiculing feminists, and railed against “SJWs” (short for “social justice warriors,” a derisive term for social justice activists). Look beyond atheism’s biggest names and you will find vocal Trump supporters like author Robert M. Price and immensely popular atheist YouTubers with more than a million subscribers. Their views are likely shared by more atheists than many would like to admit.
Harris, Dawkins, and Krauss are outspoken opponents of Trump. So, um, yeah, not exactly alt-right. Maybe they are leftys that say and do stupid shit too.
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by AWS260 »

Well this is horrifying: Hindu nationalists are protecting rapists.
In the Kathua case, you cannot read the police charge sheet without feeling nauseous. It details how a little child from the Bakherwal nomadic community had taken her family’s horses to graze in a nearby forest and never returned. The charges say she was repeatedly drugged, taken hostage and hidden inside a temple. One of the accused rapists (eight men have been arrested in connection with the case, including local police officers) was reportedly “invited” from Meerut, hundreds of miles away, to participate. The child was strangled with her own scarf; a stone was then slammed on her head to “make sure that the victim [was] dead,” according to the charges.
***
The police say the rape and murder were part of a plot to “dislodge” the shepherd community, which is Muslim, from the village. The case quickly took a hideous communal twist, with a self-appointed Hindu group (named the Hindu Ekta Manch, or Forum for Hindu Unity) staging marches in defense of the accused rapists, sounding nationalist slogans and waving the national flag — defiling all that the flag stands for.
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Paingod »

When the leaders of the free world start allowing nationalists and racists into open seats of power, it seems like other people around the world take that as a cue to ramp it up too.
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Grifman »

Holman wrote: Fri Apr 06, 2018 10:17 pm
Grifman wrote: Fri Apr 06, 2018 9:54 pm An interesting article on the out sized role atheism plays in the alt-right, and how some have a tendency to tolerate racism, misogyny and anti-Muslim bias:
[...]
There are as many styles of atheism as there are styles of theism. Some of them are reactionary and bigoted and despicable.
But the men named are some of the thought leaders of atheism, not just guys sitting in their mom's basement with a computer :)
But it's also clear that most American and European Islamophobia presents as a reactionary defense of white Christian culture in the same way that organized white supremacy has always claimed to defend white Christian civilization.
This is so much whataboutism. "Let's talk about the other side when things get uncomfortable".
Enlightened Westerners like ourselves can't write this off very easily. Just like Islam, Christianity has been deeply stained by the hatred and violence perpetrated in its name.
As has atheism. Stalin, Mao, Cambodia, and North Korea anyone?
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Holman
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Holman »

Grifman, I'm not disputing the core claim that atheists are capable of awfulness. (I trusted that it could be taken as a given that Stalin and Mao and company were covered by "despicable." Do you really think anyone here could overlook that?)

My reply was motivated by your link's sort-of implication that atheism inherently provokes bigotry and hate, which I take to be as ridiculous as the idea that religion does. All these things have histories. As it happens, the historical roots of Islamophobia are squarely in the soil of a certain long strain of Christian bigotry, the same one that gives us European-style anti-semitism.

It's entirely possible that the many in the next generation of fascists will be openly atheistic. That would fit with the general nihilism of politicized hate. But it doesn't change the history we've inherited and are dealing with right now.

FWIW, I'm not a fan at all of the dickish "atheist crusader" style of any of the "thought leaders" you mention.
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by GreenGoo »

"thought leader" seems contrary to the idea of atheism. It's not a coherent philosophy that requires years of study like theology.

In fact it's the opposite of that.
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Moliere »

Grifman wrote: Fri Apr 13, 2018 9:39 am As has atheism. Stalin, Mao, Cambodia, and North Korea anyone?
Stalin et al's atrocities weren't done in the name of atheism. They just happened to be both assholes and atheists.

Harris, Dawkins, and Krauss are all vocal anti-Trump. Not sure how you want to lump them in with the alt-right.
GreenGoo wrote: Fri Apr 13, 2018 11:06 am "thought leader" seems contrary to the idea of atheism. It's not a coherent philosophy that requires years of study like theology.

In fact it's the opposite of that.
Of course it's a coherent philosophy that you can spend years studying. You might disagree with the premise, but that doesn't make it incoherent. And "thought leader" are just those who have been most vocal in stating their agnostic/atheist beliefs.
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by GreenGoo »

Perhaps I meant not cohesive.

In any case, what is there to study? You can literally be an atheist and not even know it. If you want to convince others then sure, you need to be able to debunk and/or convince non-atheists that their beliefs are wrong. But years of study? Anything you'd study as an atheist would involve the study of theism in some way.

Wait, are we differentiating between agnostic and atheist? I find the difference to be uninteresting, and I guess I conflate the two.
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Moliere »

GreenGoo wrote: Fri Apr 13, 2018 1:31 pm Wait, are we differentiating between agnostic and atheist? I find the difference to be uninteresting, and I guess I conflate the two.
Really? I find it more interesting. For the first 20 odd years I called myself an agnostic, which I defined as "don't know, don't care". Then I called myself an atheist and was more vocal about my non-belief. That lasted about 10 odd years. For the last few years I have called myself "agnostic non-theist", which I think I stole from Douglas Adams, defined as "we can't know absolutely for sure that god exists or doesn't exist (agnostic) but based on all available evidence, probably not (non-theist). You could just as easily be agnostic theist: we can't know, but god probably does exist.
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Isgrimnur »

Moliere wrote: Fri Apr 13, 2018 1:39 pm "don't know, don't care"
Apatheist.
It's almost as if people are the problem.
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Kraken »

Isgrimnur wrote: Fri Apr 13, 2018 1:48 pm
Moliere wrote: Fri Apr 13, 2018 1:39 pm "don't know, don't care"
Apatheist.
An agnostic believes that the question of gods' existence is unknowable, not uninteresting.
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Moliere »

Christians Face 2 Years in Prison for Evangelism in 8th India State to Pass 'Anti-Conversion' Law
The North Indian state of Uttarakhand is now the eighth state in the country to pass legislation that is officially named the "Freedom of Religion Act" but has the allegedly hidden intent to punish those who facilitate religious conversions, especially conversions from Hinduism to Christianity. The latest law carries a jail term of up to two years.
...
On paper, the legislation claims to ban conversion by the use of force, fraud or inducement, but these terms are defined loosely to include social work, praying for the sick or even evangelism. It is commonly referred to as an "anti-conversion" law.
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by gameoverman »

That kind of thing is why I think someone is full of BS when they use terms like "Patriot" or "Freedom" or "Security" or any number of other obviously manipulative words to describe their rule or law.

It puts me in an odd position because no one is more annoyed than I am at a religious person's attempt to spread their religion to others, such as by asking me if I've found Jesus. On the other hand, I would not support any kind of law making that illegal. It's workable for me to just say "No thanks" and we both get on with our day. I suppose that's easy for me to say though, because I have no religious beliefs. So I feel no need to try to rope more people into my group. My group is the "I don't care" religious group, and the core of the I don't care group is that since you don't care, you don't make any effort to recruit more people into not caring, because you don't care.
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Remus West »

gameoverman wrote: Wed May 02, 2018 4:05 pm That kind of thing is why I think someone is full of BS when they use terms like "Patriot" or "Freedom" or "Security" or any number of other obviously manipulative words to describe their rule or law.

It puts me in an odd position because no one is more annoyed than I am at a religious person's attempt to spread their religion to others, such as by asking me if I've found Jesus. On the other hand, I would not support any kind of law making that illegal. It's workable for me to just say "No thanks" and we both get on with our day. I suppose that's easy for me to say though, because I have no religious beliefs. So I feel no need to try to rope more people into my group. My group is the "I don't care" religious group, and the core of the I don't care group is that since you don't care, you don't make any effort to recruit more people into not caring, because you don't care.
I'm interested in your beliefs and would like to hear more. :D
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Paingod »

gameoverman wrote: Wed May 02, 2018 4:05 pmI have no religious beliefs. So I feel no need to try to rope more people into my group. My group is the "I don't care" religious group, and the core of the I don't care group is that since you don't care, you don't make any effort to recruit more people into not caring, because you don't care.
I identify as an Atheist, and I have a strong streak of "don't care" - I don't preach it, but I do get offended when someone tries to cram what they think is truth down my throat by trying to build it into the legal system or pushing it in public spaces like schools. I've had nice, rational debates with people wanting to convert me. It doesn't upset me, but I often don't have time for it and will cut them short. When I have time, I'm fine with being nice and explaining why I don't believe in their gods. It's simple, really. I leave it up to Occam's Razor.

The infinite universe is complicated enough all by itself without making it infinitely more complex by claiming something came before and somehow then made everything. It's a devolving argument - what came before God, then? If god can spontaneously create itself, why can't a universe spontaneously come into existence. Which is the least complex answer? That A poofed into existence and then poofed B into existence, or that B poofed into existence without A?

I have never once felt or seen anything that I could classify as "magical" or "divine". I've seen a lot of suffering and pain. I've seen a lot of generosity and good. I've seen a lot of up and down. None of it has ever seemed like anything more than human machinations or natural phenomena. I was raised free of any religious indoctrination. I read through the bible once and thought it was a terrible story. I visited a church as a child and thought it was boring and creepy. The few times when I've sat in a room filled with "true believers" I got a distinct feeling that they'd like nothing more than to rip my throat open for being unlike them, but can't because they'd get caught - it was a powerfully repellent sensation. I think people who don't believe in gods that find themselves turning towards that are looking to fill gaps in their lives they can't otherwise cope with. It doesn't make them weak, just human. I sometimes find myself wishing I could believe in the magic, too, so that when I died I could see where humanity goes. It makes me a little sad to think I'm going to wink out and miss everything that comes after, but I accept it. The thought of spending eternity "basking in the glory" is unappealing. I think I'd get bored.
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Skinypupy »

Paingod wrote: Fri May 04, 2018 9:22 am The few times when I've sat in a room filled with "true believers" I got a distinct feeling that they'd like nothing more than to rip my throat open for being unlike them, but can't because they'd get caught - it was a powerfully repellent sensation.
I get the same feeling, and it has strongly put me off religion as well. When one of my relatives found out I was no longer practicing Mormon, her response to my wife was "Without the church, there's nothing to keep him from doing drugs and sleeping with other women!"

This whole idea that the only reason for morality is because "big brother is watching" creeps me right the hell out.
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Re: Religion Randomness

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Skinypupy wrote: Fri May 04, 2018 10:10 am This whole idea that the only reason for morality is because "big brother is watching" creeps me right the hell out.
Probably just a side effect from all the weed.
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Paingod »

Skinypupy wrote: Fri May 04, 2018 10:10 am This whole idea that the only reason for morality is because "big brother is watching" creeps me right the hell out.
Perhaps that's the core of my issue and why it's so creepy for me. I live a pretty good life and don't run around eating babies, burning houses, murdering innocents, torturing animals, or stealing from the poor - but get the feeling that since these people believe I will without a god to look after me, then they must want to but don't only because of their gods.
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by El Guapo »

Paingod wrote: Fri May 04, 2018 10:19 am
Skinypupy wrote: Fri May 04, 2018 10:10 am This whole idea that the only reason for morality is because "big brother is watching" creeps me right the hell out.
Perhaps that's the core of my issue and why it's so creepy for me. I live a pretty good life and don't run around eating babies, burning houses, murdering innocents, torturing animals, or stealing from the poor - but get the feeling that since these people believe I will without a god to look after me, then they must want to but don't only because of their gods.
What I've always been interested in is the theory of the "elect" that is in at least some strands of Calvinism. The idea, as I understand it, is that God has already ordained who will go to Heaven when they die - the "Elect". It doesn't matter what you do in life, if you're one of the elect you go to Heaven, if not you go to Hell. So given that, why wouldn't a good Calvinist just run around burning houses and stealing and whatnot? Well, if you're willing to do that, then you're showing that you're not one of the Elect, because the Elect by definition act righteously (as the chosen of God). So, you have to be good, not because God is watching and not for Heavenly reward, but because by being good you are demonstrating - I guess kind of proving to yourself - that you are one of the Elect.

Kind of an interesting little mindgame.
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Rip »

I think a lot of people attend church not to win the good graces of god but of their fellow man.

:think:
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by malchior »

Agnostic athiest here with a heavy lean towards pure Athiest. Only difference really is I leave the possibilitiy of dieties on the table but doubt they exist strongly. I don't have a problem with churchgoing as long as the practitioner doesn't use it as a vehicle to proselytize or be selectively pious for mundane overt reasons. Otherwise vaya con dios if you will.
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Holman »

El Guapo wrote: Fri May 04, 2018 10:40 am
Paingod wrote: Fri May 04, 2018 10:19 am
Skinypupy wrote: Fri May 04, 2018 10:10 am This whole idea that the only reason for morality is because "big brother is watching" creeps me right the hell out.
Perhaps that's the core of my issue and why it's so creepy for me. I live a pretty good life and don't run around eating babies, burning houses, murdering innocents, torturing animals, or stealing from the poor - but get the feeling that since these people believe I will without a god to look after me, then they must want to but don't only because of their gods.
What I've always been interested in is the theory of the "elect" that is in at least some strands of Calvinism. The idea, as I understand it, is that God has already ordained who will go to Heaven when they die - the "Elect". It doesn't matter what you do in life, if you're one of the elect you go to Heaven, if not you go to Hell. So given that, why wouldn't a good Calvinist just run around burning houses and stealing and whatnot? Well, if you're willing to do that, then you're showing that you're not one of the Elect, because the Elect by definition act righteously (as the chosen of God). So, you have to be good, not because God is watching and not for Heavenly reward, but because by being good you are demonstrating - I guess kind of proving to yourself - that you are one of the Elect.

Kind of an interesting little mindgame.
I think the usual explanation is that humans are bound by time while God is outside of it. There are no cause-and-effect constraints on God, therefore worrying about whether a member of the Elect could somehow thwart His will is a non-starter.

In practice, Calvinists have historically suffered despair and embraced faith like other Christians, only with an added extra layer of never being allowed to feel sure they were saved. There *have* been times when Calvinists tried to use fellow members' behavior to prove their non-Election, but that (or all I know if it) was mostly the 17th century, when things in Christendom were tough all over.
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Unagi »

What did the Calvanist say after falling down the stairs?
Spoiler:
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Isgrimnur »

Lower Hudson Valley
FBI agents and Rockland district attorney's office detectives fanned out across Ramapo on Wednesday with search warrants demanding that vendors and yeshivas provide records and account for equipment allegedly bought by religious schools with millions in federal education technology dollars.
...
The FBI-led raids, which involved 22 separate search warrants in Ramapo, are part of an investigation into whether local yeshivas properly spent money obtained through the federal government's E-Rate program, overseen by the Universal Service Administration Co. for the Federal Communications Commission. It came into existence in 1998 and today allocates more than $4 billion annually for computer and Internet access across the nation.
...
Questions about the ultra-Orthodox community's use of E-Rate funding were first raised in 2013 articles in the Jewish press.

The Manhattan-based Jewish Week and The Jewish Daily Forward published reports questioning the high percentage of E-Rate dollars in New York state going to Hasidic and other Orthodox schools and libraries, noting many of the schools prohibited student access to the Internet.

The Jewish Week's first article outlined how the religious schools in Rockland and New York City obtained the federal money, while focusing on the vendors and then the investigation that led one to return $900,000.
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Moliere »

Protestants decline, more have no religion in a sharply shifting religious landscape
The nation’s religious makeup has shifted dramatically in the past 15 years, with a sharp drop in the number of Americans who say they’re members of a Protestant denomination – still the nation’s most prevalent religious group – and a rise in the number who profess no religion.

On average last year, 36 percent of Americans in ABC News/Washington Post polls identified themselves as members of a Protestant faith, extending a gradual trend down from 50 percent in 2003. That includes an 8-point drop in the number of evangelical white Protestants, an important political group.

Reflecting the change among Protestants, the share of Christians overall has declined from 83 percent of the adult population in 2003 to 72 percent on average last year. In the same time, the number of Americans who say they have no religion has nearly doubled, to 21 percent.

Catholic self-identification (22 percent) has held steady during this time. The share of adults who identify with another form of Christianity – including Jehovah Witnesses, Mormons and Greek or Russian Orthodox, for example – has risen modestly, from 11 to 14 percent.
"The world is suffering more today from the good people who want to mind other men's business than it is from the bad people who are willing to let everybody look after their own individual affairs." - Clarence Darrow
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Isgrimnur
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Isgrimnur »

Arkansas
The Freedom From Religion Foundation and a coalition of plaintiffs filed a lawsuit today against Arkansas Secretary of State Mark Martin seeking the removal of a massive Ten Commandments structure from the grounds of the Capitol.

In June 2017, the state placed a Ten Commandments monument at the Capitol, which was destroyed within 24 hours. Last month, a second Ten Commandments monument was installed at the same site, this time with protective barriers to prevent intentional destruction.

FFRF and its co-plaintiffs assert that this installation is in clear violation of constitutional precepts. The plaintiffs include FFRF, the American Humanist Association, the Arkansas Society of Freethinkers, as well as seven individual plaintiffs who are religious and nonreligious citizens of Arkansas.
...
The suit points out that the Assembly went ahead with its plans in spite of objections to the placement of the Ten Commandments monument at public hearings by religious adherents of many stripes, as well as nonbelievers, who emphasized that the monument violated both the U.S. and the state Constitutions.

The lawsuit, which was filed in the U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Arkansas, seeks a declaration that the monument is unconstitutional, an injunction directing the defendant to remove the monument, and costs and attorneys’ fees. The state could be on the hook for a substantial amount of money when it loses the case. Earlier this year, a city in New Mexico was ordered to pay $700,000 in attorneys’ fees after unsuccessfully defending a Ten Commandments monument in court. FFRF has also prevailed in recent years in two cases that succeeded in removing Ten Commandments monuments from Pennsylvania schools.
It's almost as if people are the problem.
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Grifman »

"It was one of the greatest statements the Lord ever told me, he said, 'Jesse do you want to come up where I'm at?'" the minister says. "'I want you to bleed me for a Falcon 7X.'"

https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/30/us/jesse ... index.html

I hope his jet has air conditioning because he's going to need it.
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions. – G.K. Chesterton
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Moliere »

Denmark is considering a ban on circumcisions—and testing its religious freedom
Denmark just inched closer to becoming the first nation to ban circumcision. On Jun 1., a controversial citizens’ petition to outlaw circumcising anyone under the age of 18 reached its 50,000th signature, a threshold that requires the Parliament to debate and vote on the measure.

The country has long been a pioneer of socially liberal reforms. For example, it was the first to pass environmental laws, legalize pornography, and recognize gay unions. However, on this particular issue, the socially liberal position is far from clear, forcing politicians to choose between parents’ rights and those of their children.

For the ban’s advocates, the argument in favor hinges on consent—specifically, the inability of children to give informed consent to having their genitals cut. The group that launched the petition, Intact Denmark, argues that boys “ought to be allowed to grow up with their body intact,” and, once they’re 18, decide for themselves whether to be circumcised. The petition proposes tweaking a current law punishing female genital mutilation (pdf, p.11) with up to six years in prison to include males as well.
:clap:
"The world is suffering more today from the good people who want to mind other men's business than it is from the bad people who are willing to let everybody look after their own individual affairs." - Clarence Darrow
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em2nought
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by em2nought »

Moliere wrote: Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:32 pm Denmark is considering a ban on circumcisions—and testing its religious freedom
Denmark just inched closer to becoming the first nation to ban circumcision. On Jun 1., a controversial citizens’ petition to outlaw circumcising anyone under the age of 18 reached its 50,000th signature
:clap:
So no sex changes 'til 18 either?
Technically, he shouldn't be here.
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hepcat
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by hepcat »

Aren't you well over 18 though? :?
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Remus West
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Remus West »

Seriously? You applaud the idea of making it illegal to circumsize your child? Or is that a sarcastic clap? Because circumsision can make it less likely you get the clap. Among other health benefits.
“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.” - H.L. Mencken
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hepcat
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by hepcat »

Is circumcision bad? I wasn't aware of any medical issues. :?
Moliere wrote: Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:32 pm Denmark just inched closer to becoming the first nation to ban circumcision.
inched...hah
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Moliere
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Moliere »

If someone wants to cut the tip of his junk off let him make the decision, not have it done before he can consent.
"The world is suffering more today from the good people who want to mind other men's business than it is from the bad people who are willing to let everybody look after their own individual affairs." - Clarence Darrow
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Fitzy
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Fitzy »

hepcat wrote: Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:45 pm Is circumcision bad? I wasn't aware of any medical issues. :?
There are arguments that it is as bad or worse than female genital mutilation. Which is ridiculous. Possibly more realistic, there's an argument that it diminishes sexual pleasure in men. However, the only men who would know would be those who kept the foreskin and had it chopped when an adult. So who freaking knows.
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