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Religion Randomness

For discussion of religion and politics

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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Smoove_B »

Need to interject some humor into this dark thread.


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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Jaymann »

Indicative of 2020, I didn't initially see the Onion, and took it at face value.
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Skinypupy »

Happy nightmares!


Artist Diemut Strebe has created an unsettling, fleshy robotic mouth that utters an endless series of AI generated prayer. Unsettling or beautiful? You decide.
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Re: Religion Randomness

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"It is obvious that the uncertainty surrounding these products . . . makes them continuously less acceptable from the perspective of ethics respectful of the truth and the common good, because it transforms them into a ticking time bomb ready sooner or later to explode, poisoning the health of the markets"
-Pope Francis, 2018

*Buys the shit out of these products*
- Vatican in 2015

A couple of weeks after Cardinal Angelo Becciu, second-in-command of the Vatican's powerful Secretariat of State, resigned amid burgeoning financial scandals, another scandal has emerged, this time it involves the Vatican using some donation money, intended to help the working poor, to bet on the creditworthiness of now bankrupted US rental car company, Hertz.

FT broke the story on Thursday, citing documents, shows how the Vatican, under Becciu's management, used donation money to purchase structured notes linked with credit default swaps as part of a gambling bet Hertz wouldn't default by April 2020. Hertz filed for bankruptcy on May 22, due to the economic downturn spurred by the virus pandemic, which allowed the Vatican to "narrow escape on the investment, which paid out in full," FT said.

In 2018, the Pope, highly critical of global capitalism or mostly unfettered capitalism, warned about the dangers of the CDS market, and its role in the 2008 financial crisis. He specifically warned about the bundling and re-bundling of CDS products into structured debt.

...


FT said there was no evidence that suggests the Pope knew about the Hertz investment, which was held in an account in Switzerland and made by a third-party. This comes after Becciu resigned from his position last month following an allegation of "misappropriation".

The Pope was out last Sunday, blasting trickle-down economic policies, raising the alarm over the rapidly increasing inequality crisis that has been exacerbated by the virus-induced global recession.

"The marketplace, by itself, cannot resolve every problem, however much we are asked to believe this dogma of neoliberal faith," the Pope said in a letter to church leaders. "Whatever the challenge, this impoverished and repetitive school of thought always offers the same recipes."

Before bashing financial markets, maybe the Pope should review the Vatican's portfolio before making statements about credit and debt products.

FT story here for less editorial opinion.

The Vatican invested some donations for the poor and needy in derivatives that bet on the creditworthiness of Hertz, the US car rental company that defaulted on its debts earlier this year, according to documents seen by the Financial Times.

In 2018, Pope Francis said credit default swaps “encouraged the growth of a finance of chance and of gambling on the failure of others, which is unacceptable from the ethical point of view”. The instruments, he said, were “a ticking time bomb”.

But three years earlier, part of a €528m Vatican portfolio “derived from donations” bought structured notes containing CDS as part of a bet that Hertz would not default on its debts by April 2020, the documents show. The company filed for bankruptcy the following month, giving the Holy See a narrow escape on the investment, which paid out in full.
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Holman »

Skinypupy wrote: Wed Sep 30, 2020 1:05 pm Happy nightmares!


Artist Diemut Strebe has created an unsettling, fleshy robotic mouth that utters an endless series of AI generated prayer. Unsettling or beautiful? You decide.
It just ain't got no soul.
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Jeff V »

It needs a pope hat.
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Isgrimnur »

I look forward to the new models of Electric Monks.
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Holman »

Isgrimnur wrote: Thu Oct 08, 2020 11:00 am I look forward to the new models of Electric Monks.
Time for a re-read?

Arthur Clarke, "The Nine Billion Names of God"
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Isgrimnur »

Isgrimnur wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:55 am Ireland
State-run primary schools are taking formal religious instruction for pupils off the timetable.

The umbrella body for community national schools has decided that preparation for sacraments, such as First Communion, will no longer take place inside the school day.
Ireland
More than 200 state-run secondary schools in the Republic of Ireland will begin to phase out historical Catholic symbols and mandatory Masses, Irish sources have reported.

The new regulations apply to the country’s ETB schools, which are run by the government’s Education and Training Boards. The new rules officially classify those schools as “multi-denominational” which therefore can not favor Catholic or Christian symbolism or ceremonies, the Irish Times reported.

These new regulations were established in a yet unpublished document obtained by the Irish Times.
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Re: Religion Randomness

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There will be complaints that he's not promoting full marriage equality, but the fact of the Pope endorsing same-sex unions (including same-sex parenting) is a huge moment in Christian history.
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Zarathud »

Pope to Republicans: the Catholic Church rejects you.
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by LawBeefaroni »

I look it as recognition of secular powers as distinct from the Church. Nothing new, though this specific proclamation is groundbreaking.

I mean, "render unto Caesar" and all that.


I've never understood the hangup on same sex marriage and civil unions. It's marriage, a state issued certificate and benefits. Not Marriage(tm) the sacrament.
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Re: Religion Randomness

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LawBeefaroni wrote: Wed Oct 21, 2020 10:37 am I've never understood the hangup on same sex marriage and civil unions. It's marriage, a state issued certificate and benefits. Not Marriage(tm) the sacrament.
Really? Allowing civil unions normalizes a "disordered" and "intrinsic moral evil" way of life. And being part of that society means you have given tacit approval to it with your tax dollars, etc. As a member of the Church, you are being asked to bring the Truth(tm) to everyone and allowing that to continue is to deny the Truth.

This is not at all what I believe - but that is the argument that is made.
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Jaymann »

stessier wrote: Wed Oct 21, 2020 10:59 am
LawBeefaroni wrote: Wed Oct 21, 2020 10:37 am I've never understood the hangup on same sex marriage and civil unions. It's marriage, a state issued certificate and benefits. Not Marriage(tm) the sacrament.
Really? Allowing civil unions normalizes a "disordered" and "intrinsic moral evil" way of life. And being part of that society means you have given tacit approval to it with your tax dollars, etc. As a member of the Church, you are being asked to bring the Truth(tm) to everyone and allowing that to continue is to deny the Truth.

This is not at all what I believe - but that is the argument that is made.
Thanks for clarifying that.
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Re: Religion Randomness

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Maybe one day they'll even let a woman have a leadership position.
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by LawBeefaroni »

stessier wrote: Wed Oct 21, 2020 10:59 am
LawBeefaroni wrote: Wed Oct 21, 2020 10:37 am I've never understood the hangup on same sex marriage and civil unions. It's marriage, a state issued certificate and benefits. Not Marriage(tm) the sacrament.
Really? Allowing civil unions normalizes a "disordered" and "intrinsic moral evil" way of life. And being part of that society means you have given tacit approval to it with your tax dollars, etc. As a member of the Church, you are being asked to bring the Truth(tm) to everyone and allowing that to continue is to deny the Truth.

This is not at all what I believe - but that is the argument that is made.
The faithful pivoted relatively quickly on other intrinsic moral evils like divorce and contraception. In fact, they often outpaced the Church. But in this they lag. I think it's just "gays are ick".
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by stessier »

LawBeefaroni wrote: Wed Oct 21, 2020 12:19 pm
stessier wrote: Wed Oct 21, 2020 10:59 am
LawBeefaroni wrote: Wed Oct 21, 2020 10:37 am I've never understood the hangup on same sex marriage and civil unions. It's marriage, a state issued certificate and benefits. Not Marriage(tm) the sacrament.
Really? Allowing civil unions normalizes a "disordered" and "intrinsic moral evil" way of life. And being part of that society means you have given tacit approval to it with your tax dollars, etc. As a member of the Church, you are being asked to bring the Truth(tm) to everyone and allowing that to continue is to deny the Truth.

This is not at all what I believe - but that is the argument that is made.
The faithful pivoted relatively quickly on other intrinsic moral evils like divorce and contraception. In fact, they often outpaced the Church. But in this they lag. I think it's just "gays are ick".
I would suggest that the ones who are fine with divorce and contraception are generally fine with gay marriage. The conservative elements are the ones making these arguments - they are quite vocal.
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by ImLawBoy »

stessier wrote: Wed Oct 21, 2020 1:08 pm
LawBeefaroni wrote: Wed Oct 21, 2020 12:19 pm
stessier wrote: Wed Oct 21, 2020 10:59 am
LawBeefaroni wrote: Wed Oct 21, 2020 10:37 am I've never understood the hangup on same sex marriage and civil unions. It's marriage, a state issued certificate and benefits. Not Marriage(tm) the sacrament.
Really? Allowing civil unions normalizes a "disordered" and "intrinsic moral evil" way of life. And being part of that society means you have given tacit approval to it with your tax dollars, etc. As a member of the Church, you are being asked to bring the Truth(tm) to everyone and allowing that to continue is to deny the Truth.

This is not at all what I believe - but that is the argument that is made.
The faithful pivoted relatively quickly on other intrinsic moral evils like divorce and contraception. In fact, they often outpaced the Church. But in this they lag. I think it's just "gays are ick".
I would suggest that the ones who are fine with divorce and contraception are generally fine with gay marriage. The conservative elements are the ones making these arguments - they are quite vocal.
I haven't seen polling on this, but I suspect this isn't necessarily the case. While I think those who support gay marriage are also [largely OK with divorce and contraception, I don't think it's safe to say that those who are OK with divorce and contraception are generally OK with gay marriage. This is because (speaking in generalities, of course) divorce and contraception are something they need/want personally. They don't personally need gay marriage - it's for "others". It's easier to find a way to rationalize something if it has a direct personal impact on you.
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by stessier »

ImLawBoy wrote: Wed Oct 21, 2020 1:17 pm
stessier wrote: Wed Oct 21, 2020 1:08 pm
LawBeefaroni wrote: Wed Oct 21, 2020 12:19 pm
stessier wrote: Wed Oct 21, 2020 10:59 am
LawBeefaroni wrote: Wed Oct 21, 2020 10:37 am I've never understood the hangup on same sex marriage and civil unions. It's marriage, a state issued certificate and benefits. Not Marriage(tm) the sacrament.
Really? Allowing civil unions normalizes a "disordered" and "intrinsic moral evil" way of life. And being part of that society means you have given tacit approval to it with your tax dollars, etc. As a member of the Church, you are being asked to bring the Truth(tm) to everyone and allowing that to continue is to deny the Truth.

This is not at all what I believe - but that is the argument that is made.
The faithful pivoted relatively quickly on other intrinsic moral evils like divorce and contraception. In fact, they often outpaced the Church. But in this they lag. I think it's just "gays are ick".
I would suggest that the ones who are fine with divorce and contraception are generally fine with gay marriage. The conservative elements are the ones making these arguments - they are quite vocal.
I haven't seen polling on this, but I suspect this isn't necessarily the case. While I think those who support gay marriage are also [largely OK with divorce and contraception, I don't think it's safe to say that those who are OK with divorce and contraception are generally OK with gay marriage. This is because (speaking in generalities, of course) divorce and contraception are something they need/want personally. They don't personally need gay marriage - it's for "others". It's easier to find a way to rationalize something if it has a direct personal impact on you.
Would you agree it's safe to say if they are against divorce and contraception, they are far more likely to be against gay marriage? So if it's 60/40 in support of contraception/divorce it might be 30/70 for gay marriage where the difference is almost all moving from Yes to No. (I haven't seen polling either - just a guess from personal interactions.)
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Re: Religion Randomness

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Yes, I think it's safe to say that, in general, those who oppose divorce and contraception also oppose gay marriage.
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Re: Religion Randomness

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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by malchior »

Wow. I was on a flight where this happened once. It wasn't urinating on a person but in the aisle. The person had taken Ambien and was almost certainly sleep walking. I can't help but assume it'll be something along these lines.
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Re: Religion Randomness

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malchior wrote: Wed Oct 28, 2020 1:58 pm Wow. I was on a flight where this happened once. It wasn't urinating on a person but in the aisle. The person had taken Ambien and was almost certainly sleep walking. I can't help but assume it'll be something along these lines.
From the article:
The officer said Chalmers also denied that he had been drinking alcohol.

However, the officer reports that Chalmers “smelled of alcohol and his eyes were bloodshot.” (A preliminary breath test, or “PBT,” found that Chalmers had a breath alcohol content of .175—more than twice the legal limit in Michigan of .08.) The officer also says that Chalmers told him that he was on medication.
Assuming he's about 180 pounds (the pic suggests thin but tall), a BAC of .175 is like 8 or 9 drinks.
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Isgrimnur »

It's illegal to just be over the limit in Michigan, now?
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Re: Religion Randomness

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Isgrimnur wrote: Wed Oct 28, 2020 4:12 pm It's illegal to just be over the limit in Michigan, now?
They take PUI very seriously.
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Re: Religion Randomness

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Isgrimnur wrote: Wed Oct 28, 2020 4:12 pm It's illegal to just be over the limit in Michigan, now?
Definitely if you're going to lock, cock, and fire.
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Isgrimnur »

Freyland wrote: Wed Oct 28, 2020 4:20 pm
Isgrimnur wrote: Wed Oct 28, 2020 4:12 pm It's illegal to just be over the limit in Michigan, now?
Definitely if you're going to lock, cock, and fire.
How do they determine if it's Aggravated or not?
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Re: Religion Randomness

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Isgrimnur wrote: Wed Oct 28, 2020 4:12 pm It's illegal to just be over the limit in Michigan, now?
One toke over the line.
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Re: Religion Randomness

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Isgrimnur wrote: Wed Oct 28, 2020 4:37 pm
Freyland wrote: Wed Oct 28, 2020 4:20 pm
Isgrimnur wrote: Wed Oct 28, 2020 4:12 pm It's illegal to just be over the limit in Michigan, now?
Definitely if you're going to lock, cock, and fire.
How do they determine if it's Aggravated or not?
Probably depends on where he aimed.
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by LordMortis »

Isgrimnur wrote: Wed Oct 28, 2020 4:12 pm It's illegal to just be over the limit in Michigan, now?
Maybe? You can get ticketed for public intoxication but the .08 is actually for impaired driving as someone of legal age to drink. Google suggests BAC is not a pre-requiste for public intoxication though, only that you can be identified as being intoxicated and are behaving "disorderly" in a public place.
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Re: Religion Randomness

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NBC News
Former Liberty University President Jerry Falwell Jr. filed a state lawsuit Wednesday against the evangelical school founded by his father, claiming he was wrongly ousted from his leadership post.
...
In a complaint in state court in Lynchburg, Virginia, Falwell's lawyers alleged that Liberty defamed Falwell and breached the former president's contract.

"Mr. Falwell has suffered damage to his reputation, damage to his profession, humiliation, and anguish; lost business opportunities; and suffered other pecuniary damage," according to the plaintiff's complaint.
...
While the lawsuit lists only Liberty University as a defendant, the complaint accuses the Lincoln Project, an organization of Republican political operatives who oppose President Donald Trump, and one of the group's senior advisers, Kurt Bardella, of backing Granda.

"When Mr. Falwell and his family became the targets of a malicious smear campaign incited by anti-evangelical forces, Liberty University not only accepted the salacious and baseless accusations against the Falwells at face value, but directly participated in the defamation," according to the lawsuit.

Bardella, in a statement on behalf of the Lincoln Project, didn't say what — if any — work they're doing on behalf of Granda. But the group didn't hold back in mocking Falwell.

“The Lincoln Project didn’t make Mr. Falwell sit in the corner. The Lincoln Project didn’t make Mr. Falwell unbutton his pants on a super yacht and post a picture on social media," according to Bardella's statement.

"The Lincoln Project didn’t make Mr. Falwell stand with Donald Trump, though that now makes sense; they are kindred spirits. The Lincoln Project has had nothing to do with the public finally learning about the true character of the Falwell family.”
...
Falwell also took credit for the fortunes of Liberty's intercollegiate athletic programs, which his lawyers claim are nearly on par with major NCAA schools such as Notre Dame and Brigham Young University.
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Holman »

21st-century Christianists are so fucking weird.

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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Holman »

In case you need to know more about Paula White, Trump’s “spiritual” adviser.



Tl;dr: grift grift grift
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by hepcat »

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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by LordMortis »

Is it weird that I have an urge to never listen to another Journey song again? You have to be pretty extreme for me to not divorce your artistic paycheck from my ability to appreciate what you do.... Um...
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Alefroth »

South America isn't sending their best angels.
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Defiant »

An article on the hypocrisy of European countries that ban kosher and halal animal slaughtering in the name of "animal rights" while not giving a fig when it comes to fur production and factory farming and protecting recreational hunting and fishing and cultural traditions.
The country was happy to express its deep and abiding concern for animal welfare, just as long as the price was paid by despised religious sects with no political or economic clout, and not by the rest of the population.
As it turns out, the societal bill for securing animal rights is to be paid by Jews and Muslims—and them alone. That’s because according to the court, requiring stunning in non-Jewish and non-Muslim settings would “adversely affect the very nature of the event concerned.” (Apparently, this is not an issue for Jewish and Muslim affairs.) Likewise, centuries worth of Muslim and Jewish tradition do not qualify as exempted “cultural traditions” that “contribute to fostering long-standing social links between generations.” That privileged carve-out is reserved for the rest of Europe’s citizens. In other words: Bullfighting in, Rosh Hashana brisket out.
https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news ... r-butchery
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by hitbyambulance »

Defiant wrote: Wed Dec 23, 2020 4:16 pm An article on the hypocrisy of European countries that ban kosher and halal animal slaughtering in the name of "animal rights" while not giving a fig when it comes to fur production and factory farming and protecting recreational hunting and fishing and cultural traditions.
The country was happy to express its deep and abiding concern for animal welfare, just as long as the price was paid by despised religious sects with no political or economic clout, and not by the rest of the population.
As it turns out, the societal bill for securing animal rights is to be paid by Jews and Muslims—and them alone. That’s because according to the court, requiring stunning in non-Jewish and non-Muslim settings would “adversely affect the very nature of the event concerned.” (Apparently, this is not an issue for Jewish and Muslim affairs.) Likewise, centuries worth of Muslim and Jewish tradition do not qualify as exempted “cultural traditions” that “contribute to fostering long-standing social links between generations.” That privileged carve-out is reserved for the rest of Europe’s citizens. In other words: Bullfighting in, Rosh Hashana brisket out.
https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news ... r-butchery
or 'research' on animals: https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... german-lab

hopefully some future civilization looks back on this unenlightened era with horror and disgust
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Holman »

I'm a lapsed vegetarian, so I'm as guilty as anyone, but if humanity survives into a more benign future then our era will be remembered as the one that realized animal suffering was wrong and inflicted it anyway.
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.
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