Religion Randomness

For discussion of religion and politics

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El Guapo
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by El Guapo »

It's also like, I would rather they not have that monument either. BUT it's weird to me that having apparently decided that he is willing to go to jail to make a political statement, *this* is what he chooses? Pick your battles, man.
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Isgrimnur
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Isgrimnur »

His criminal history tells me that he may have impulse control issues.
It's almost as if people are the problem.
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Isgrimnur »

How about a flashback to 2015?
The man accused of destroying the Ten Commandments monument at the Oklahoma State Capitol is talking about what led up to the alleged crime.

In a letter sent to the Tulsa World, 29-year-old Michael Tate Reed describes his mental health descent into psychosis, his actions leading to that moment, and his road to recovery.

According to the Tulsa World, in the letter, Reed says that his psychotic breaks led to getting inspiration from a Dracula movie, thinking Michael Jackson’s spirit was in meat, believing he was the incarnation of an occult leader and attempting to contact Lucifer’s high priestess he called Gwyneth Paltrow.
...
In October 2014, Reed rammed his car into the Ten Commandments monument at the Capitol. The granite monument was destroyed in the crash.

While Reed left the scene of the crash, authorities say he walked to the federal building and began making threats to officials.
...
According to the Tulsa World, Reed is diagnosed with schizoaffective disorder. He was released from Norman’s Griffin Memorial Hospital in January.

In the letter he sent to the Tulsa World, Reed apologizes for his actions.

“I am so sorry that this all happening (sic) and wished I could take it all back,” Reed said.

Reed says he believes his mental health started to decline while he was a student at Victory Bible College in Tulsa.
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Isgrimnur »

Ark Encounter sold
Williamstown (Kentucky) officials are instituting a “safety fee” for ticket-taking attractions in the city.

If implemented, the city would charge Ark Encounter 50 cents per ticket to go towards things like fire trucks and police cars — all the things that make the city a safer place for residents and tourists. Using the estimate of 1.4 million visitors a year, this would amount to approximately $700,000 that Ark Encounter would owe the city annually.

The Creationists at Ark Encounter, however, say they should be exempt from that charge because they run a non-profit ministry. You wouldn’t force a church to pay taxes, now, would you?!

The problem is that up until now, Ark Encounter has legally been a for-profit business in order to receive a number of tax incentives from the city and state. That’s why officials in Williamstown figured they could ask Ark Encounter to pay up. It’s not a church; it’s a money-making tourist attraction. They recently went ahead with their plans to make Ark Encounter pay the fee.
...
According to the Lexington Herald-Leader‘s Linda Blackford, the team behind Ark Encounter recently sold the land on which the giant boat rests for a whopping $10.
… Ark Encounter LLC sold its main parcel of land — the one with the life-size Noah’s Ark — for $10 to their non-profit affiliate, Crosswater Canyon. Although the property is worth $48 million according to the Grant County Property Valuation Administrator, the deed says its value is only $18.5 million.
...
Just to summarize here, Ark Encounter used its for-profit status to receive all sorts of tax breaks. Then the Creationists told Williamstown officials that they ran a non-profit ministry to avoid paying more taxes. And now they’re basically confessing that they were a for-profit business this whole time because they just sold the boat to the non-profit entity that oversees it.
...
Williamstown gave the Creationists cheap land and tax breaks galore over the next few decades with the hope that Ark Encounter would eventually create lots of jobs and bring in tourists who would spend money at surrounding businesses.

Ken Ham is paying them back by restricting jobs to his anti-gay Creationist buddies, threatening to sue the city over the safety fee, and finding a way to possibly withhold taxes that would fund local schools.
It's almost as if people are the problem.
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Isgrimnur »

Minn.
The free-speech zone in Belle Plaine’s Veterans Memorial Park was quietly eliminated Monday night with the swift, sweeping approval of a 15-item consent agenda.

“Our intent was good … but it just became too convoluted,” said council member Theresa McDaniel.

The city created the zone earlier this year to allow for “Joe” — the privately owned statue of a soldier kneeling at a cross-shaped grave marker — to remain in the city-owned park, even though the cross is an explicitly religious symbol. But that paved the path for what would have been the first satanic monument on public property in the United States, attracting national attention to the small town.

The memorial, proposed by The Satanic Temple of Massachusetts, had not yet been installed at the time of the vote.

“Joe” was removed by his owners last week after America Needs Fatima, a national non-profit, announced a “Rosary Rally” in protest. The event drew more than a hundred people, as well as a handful of freedom of speech advocates and several members of Minnesota’s Left Hand Path Community, which supports the satanic memorial.

Now, with the city’s reversal of its original decision, the stretch of grass that was once designated for anyone to place memorials will remain empty, except for the American flag stuck into the ground where “Joe” once kneeled.
...
The free-speech zone was created by a 3-2 vote earlier this year, after “Joe” was removed from the park, eliciting a strong reaction from Belle Plaine residents, said council member Cary Coop, who voted against the zone’s creation.

Since Belle Plaine approved The Satanic Temple’s proposed memorial — which met all the free-speech zone’s requirements — the town has attracted widespread attention, with hundreds of phone calls and emails pouring into city hall and demonstrations organized by outside groups.
It's almost as if people are the problem.
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Vorret
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Vorret »

I love these guys
Isgrimnur wrote:
His name makes me think of a small, burrowing rodent anyway.
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tgb
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by tgb »

You mean Gwyneth Paltrow isn't Lucifer's High Priestess??????

In other news, Divorce, Hebrew style.
“What we are going to be doing is kidnapping a guy for a couple of hours and beating him up and torturing him and then getting him to give you the get,” Rabbi Mendel Epstein told his two visitors....

"We take an electric cattle prod,” the bearded man continued later in the conversation on Aug. 14, 2013, according to court documents. “If it can get a bull that weighs five tons to move … You put it on certain parts of his body and in one minute the guy will know.”........

In his recorded meeting with the agents, Epstein stated he hoped the threat of violence would be enough to force a husband’s hand. “We prefer not to leave a mark,” he told the agents, explaining that if the husband does go to the police, traces of harm are an obvious problem. “Basically the reaction of police is, if they guy does not have a mark on him, then, ‘Uh, is there some Jewish crazy stuff here?’ They don’t get involved.”
:D
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by hepcat »

You're lucky mrs. tgb couldn't find a long enough extension cord...
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tgb
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by tgb »

hepcat wrote:You're lucky mrs. tgb couldn't find a long enough extension cord...
True. On the other hand "Is there some Jewish crazy stuff here?" is now my go-to reaction to just about everything.
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Rip »

Mohamed Elmouelhy, the head of Australia’s Halal Certification Authority, publicly commented on Facebook to state that white Australian women need Muslim men to fertilize them and “keep them surrounded by Muslim babies.”

Elmouelhy’s intolerant views led him to declare that the “white race will be extinct” in 40 years.

The certification chief, who immigrated to Australia in 1975 and became a citizen in 1981, made his comments in response to a study in Human Reproduction Update from Israeli researchers in Hebrew University, which revealed declining fertility rates among men in North America, Europe, Australia, and New Zealand.
“If the country is left to the bigots the white race will be extinct in another 40 years,” he continued. “Muslims have a duty to make your women happy because you are declining, better go chose a plot for yourself at your local cemetery. If you can’t afford it, commit suicide it is a cheaper alternative for bigots.”

“It will [sic] mandatory for all women to wear hijab or burka if they prefer, bikinis will be displayed in Museums but not on nubile bodies anymore,” he continued. “When that happens everything in Australia will be Halal certified. Bigots and pigs will be declared Haram and must not be approached or touched, they can live together in reserves. There will be a Halal butcher on every corner, all other butchers will be offered to convert to Halal or given a passage back to where their ancestors came from.”

Elmouelhy’s diatribe also included scathing remarks towards Australian politicians and called for the creation of “religious police” who “will make sure all businesses are closed at the time of prayers.”
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... e-die.html
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Isgrimnur »

This just in: some people are assholes.
It's almost as if people are the problem.
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Rip »

This just in: When leaders and high profile people from the so-called moderate Muslim community say racist and bigoted things there will be a long line of people making excuses for them or brushing off their hateful words as just rhetoric.

Too bad we aren't as forgiving of the ignorant and hateful words laid against Muslims......
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Isgrimnur »

Rip wrote:This just in: When leaders and high profile people from the so-called moderate Muslim community say racist and bigoted things there will be a long line of people making excuses for them or brushing off their hateful words as just rhetoric.

Too bad we aren't as forgiving of the ignorant and hateful words laid against Muslims......
This just in: When leaders and high profile people from the so-called moderate Christian community say racist and bigoted things there will be a long line of people making excuses for them or brushing off their hateful words as just rhetoric.

Too bad we aren't as forgiving of the ignorant and hateful words laid against Christians.

I reiterate: some people are assholes.
It's almost as if people are the problem.
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Rip »

Isgrimnur wrote:
Rip wrote:This just in: When leaders and high profile people from the so-called moderate Muslim community say racist and bigoted things there will be a long line of people making excuses for them or brushing off their hateful words as just rhetoric.

Too bad we aren't as forgiving of the ignorant and hateful words laid against Muslims......
This just in: When leaders and high profile people from the so-called moderate Christian community say racist and bigoted things there will be a long line of people making excuses for them or brushing off their hateful words as just rhetoric.

Too bad we aren't as forgiving of the ignorant and hateful words laid against Christians.

I reiterate: some people are assholes.
and? We post the things they say here and ridicule them and call them names. Is there some reason that doing the same for the ignorant Muslims is a problem?

Some people are assholes and when noticed we highlight the ignorance of what they say and mock them. It's what we do.
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Default »

Rip wrote:
Isgrimnur wrote:
Rip wrote:This just in: When leaders and high profile people from the so-called moderate Muslim community say racist and bigoted things there will be a long line of people making excuses for them or brushing off their hateful words as just rhetoric.

Too bad we aren't as forgiving of the ignorant and hateful words laid against Muslims......
This just in: When leaders and high profile people from the so-called moderate Christian community say racist and bigoted things there will be a long line of people making excuses for them or brushing off their hateful words as just rhetoric.

Too bad we aren't as forgiving of the ignorant and hateful words laid against Christians.

I reiterate: some people are assholes.
and? We post the things they say here and ridicule them and call them names. Is there some reason that doing the same for the ignorant Muslims is a problem?

Some people are assholes and when noticed we highlight the ignorance of what they say and mock them. It's what we do.
Unless they are your profile picture.
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by tjg_marantz »

Whataboutism.

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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Isgrimnur »

And I agreed with you. He's an asshole. You decided to try and tar the religion of over a billion people with his statements.
It's almost as if people are the problem.
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Rip »

Default wrote:
Rip wrote:
Isgrimnur wrote:
Rip wrote:This just in: When leaders and high profile people from the so-called moderate Muslim community say racist and bigoted things there will be a long line of people making excuses for them or brushing off their hateful words as just rhetoric.

Too bad we aren't as forgiving of the ignorant and hateful words laid against Muslims......
This just in: When leaders and high profile people from the so-called moderate Christian community say racist and bigoted things there will be a long line of people making excuses for them or brushing off their hateful words as just rhetoric.

Too bad we aren't as forgiving of the ignorant and hateful words laid against Christians.

I reiterate: some people are assholes.
and? We post the things they say here and ridicule them and call them names. Is there some reason that doing the same for the ignorant Muslims is a problem?

Some people are assholes and when noticed we highlight the ignorance of what they say and mock them. It's what we do.
Unless they are your profile picture.
Especially then. No one is more mockable than Trump.
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Rip »

Isgrimnur wrote:And I agreed with you. He's an asshole. You decided to try and tar the religion of over a billion people with his statements.
How? By posting a link to an article with his quotes? I'm not the one taring his religion with his statements, he is.
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Max Peck »

Rip wrote:
Isgrimnur wrote:And I agreed with you. He's an asshole. You decided to try and tar the religion of over a billion people with his statements.
How? By posting a link to an article with his quotes? I'm not the one taring his religion with his statements, he is.
In exactly the same degree that Fred Phelps tarred all of Christianity. :coffee:
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by noxiousdog »

Rip wrote:This just in: When leaders and high profile people from the so-called moderate Muslim community say racist and bigoted things there will be a long line of people making excuses for them or brushing off their hateful words as just rhetoric.

Too bad we aren't as forgiving of the ignorant and hateful words laid against Muslims......
Where is this long line of people you're talking about?
Black Lives Matter

"To wield Grond, the mighty hammer of the Federal Government, is to be intoxicated with power beyond what you and I can reckon (though I figure we can ball park it pretty good with computers and maths). Need to tunnel through a mountain? Grond. Kill a mighty ogre? Grond. Hangnail? Grond. Spider? Grond (actually, that's a legit use, moreso than the rest)." - Peacedog
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by LordMortis »

Dude's not public figure enough for me to really care about but if he was on par with a Ken Hamm or Fred Phelps or they high profile televangalist enriching themselves from the elderly in my awareness of the world, he'd be worthy of broadcasting the same contempt I hold for them. Alas, to me he's nobody. The halal certifier of Australia means very little to me. He's simply not worthy.
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Rip »

Image
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by LordMortis »

Never heard of Antifa before. I'm not sure what how a group claiming to be antifascist or socially liberal can defend a position that calls for breeding the white out of the world and treating women like they are property, so they can just be added to the groups I didn't know existed to the groups I ignore until they become a roadblock to a better existence.
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by noxiousdog »

That's your long line?

Impressive.
Black Lives Matter

"To wield Grond, the mighty hammer of the Federal Government, is to be intoxicated with power beyond what you and I can reckon (though I figure we can ball park it pretty good with computers and maths). Need to tunnel through a mountain? Grond. Kill a mighty ogre? Grond. Hangnail? Grond. Spider? Grond (actually, that's a legit use, moreso than the rest)." - Peacedog
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Rip »

LordMortis wrote:Never heard of Antifa before. I'm not sure what how a group claiming to be antifascist or socially liberal can defend a position that calls for breeding the white out of the world and treating women like they are property, so they can just be added to the groups I didn't know existed to the groups I ignore until they become a roadblock to a better existence.
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/201 ... park-five/

They are all around you. You need only open your eyes.
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by LordMortis »

Rip wrote:
LordMortis wrote:Never heard of Antifa before. I'm not sure what how a group claiming to be antifascist or socially liberal can defend a position that calls for breeding the white out of the world and treating women like they are property, so they can just be added to the groups I didn't know existed to the groups I ignore until they become a roadblock to a better existence.
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/201 ... park-five/

They are all around you. You need only open your eyes.
The only mention of antifa in the bit you posted:
As the election of Donald Trump has ushered white supremacists and their ideas from the fringes to the mainstream, their most militant foes have also come out of the shadows. On Inauguration Day, Richard Spencer, the white nationalist who coined the term “alt-right,” was punched in the face on a Washington, DC, street corner. The blow was caught on video, spawning countless remixes and a debate over the ethics and efficacy of “Nazi punching.” That same night, a Trump supporter shot and wounded an anti-fascist, or “antifa,” who was protesting a speech by Breitbart provocateur Milo Yiannopoulos at the University of Washington in Seattle. Less than two weeks later, “black bloc” protesters in Berkeley, California, helped force the cancellation of another Yiannopoulos speech, setting fires, smashing windows, and punching a Milo fan. Nationwide, new militant groups like Redneck Revolt are recruiting the next generation of activists who believe that white liberals are not up to the challenge of beating back right-wing extremists. The story of HARM’s rise and fall is a prequel to this moment, and a revealing tale about an underground war that’s been simmering for years and may now be poised to explode.
This is how you take any attempt at me trying to understand what you are getting at and leave me out in the cold. I'm missing a lot dot connectors.
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by noxiousdog »

Rip is saying his "long line" of people defending Elmouelhy are really just left wing extremists. They are so left wing, Mother Jones doesn't even like them.
Black Lives Matter

"To wield Grond, the mighty hammer of the Federal Government, is to be intoxicated with power beyond what you and I can reckon (though I figure we can ball park it pretty good with computers and maths). Need to tunnel through a mountain? Grond. Kill a mighty ogre? Grond. Hangnail? Grond. Spider? Grond (actually, that's a legit use, moreso than the rest)." - Peacedog
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Moliere »

Germans have once again shown their willingness to persecute a religion. The FSM will not tolerate this intolerance!
A German court has ruled that local authorities are entitled to prevent a group calling itself the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster from advertising its "noodle Masses" at the entrance to an eastern town.
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Holman »

Today and tomorrow are the anniversary of the 1572 St. Bartholomew's Day Massacre, when French Catholics loyal to Queen Catherine de Medici turned against and slaughtered Huguenot Protestants in Paris and throughout the country.

Modern estimates put the death toll between 5,000 and 30,000 over 48 hours. None of these were on the battlefield, and all would be considered acts of terror in modern terms.

This was not exactly a unique event in 16th/17th century Christendom.
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Holman »

Evangelical leaders issue Anti-LGBT "Nashville Statement."
The Council on Biblical Manhood and Womanhood outlined the views in what it called “The Nashville Statement,” and offered it as guidance to churches on how to address issues of sexuality. A group of evangelical leaders, scholars and pastors endorsed the statement on Friday at a conference in Nashville. It was initially endorsed by more than 150 people.

The “manifesto,” which is composed of 14 beliefs, rejects the idea that “otherwise faithful Christians should agree to disagree” on gay, lesbian and transgender issues. The leaders refer to this mentality as “moral indifference.”

“The spirit of our age does not delight in God’s good design of male and female. Consequently, confusion reigns over some of the most basic questions of our humanity,” Denny Burk, president of the council said in a statement. “The aim of The Nashville Statement is to shine a light into the darkness — to declare the goodness of God’s design in our sexuality and in creating us as male and female.”
You can read the whole statement here.

Sounds like some people are getting ready for President Pence.
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by gbasden »

Holman wrote:Evangelical leaders issue Anti-LGBT "Nashville Statement."
The Council on Biblical Manhood and Womanhood outlined the views in what it called “The Nashville Statement,” and offered it as guidance to churches on how to address issues of sexuality. A group of evangelical leaders, scholars and pastors endorsed the statement on Friday at a conference in Nashville. It was initially endorsed by more than 150 people.

The “manifesto,” which is composed of 14 beliefs, rejects the idea that “otherwise faithful Christians should agree to disagree” on gay, lesbian and transgender issues. The leaders refer to this mentality as “moral indifference.”

“The spirit of our age does not delight in God’s good design of male and female. Consequently, confusion reigns over some of the most basic questions of our humanity,” Denny Burk, president of the council said in a statement. “The aim of The Nashville Statement is to shine a light into the darkness — to declare the goodness of God’s design in our sexuality and in creating us as male and female.”
You can read the whole statement here.

Sounds like some people are getting ready for President Pence.
Yet another reason I want nothing to do with religion. Ick.
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Freyland »

gbasden wrote:
Holman wrote:Evangelical leaders issue Anti-LGBT "Nashville Statement."
The Council on Biblical Manhood and Womanhood outlined the views in what it called “The Nashville Statement,” and offered it as guidance to churches on how to address issues of sexuality. A group of evangelical leaders, scholars and pastors endorsed the statement on Friday at a conference in Nashville. It was initially endorsed by more than 150 people.

The “manifesto,” which is composed of 14 beliefs, rejects the idea that “otherwise faithful Christians should agree to disagree” on gay, lesbian and transgender issues. The leaders refer to this mentality as “moral indifference.”

“The spirit of our age does not delight in God’s good design of male and female. Consequently, confusion reigns over some of the most basic questions of our humanity,” Denny Burk, president of the council said in a statement. “The aim of The Nashville Statement is to shine a light into the darkness — to declare the goodness of God’s design in our sexuality and in creating us as male and female.”
You can read the whole statement here.

Sounds like some people are getting ready for President Pence.
Yet another reason I want nothing to do with religion. Ick.
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Grifman »

Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions. – G.K. Chesterton
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Holman »

I know the site you linked is snark. But I'm seeing defenses of the Nashville Statement that are utterly sincere in the same line of argument.

Yep, this is a norm that has been changing rapidly. Already, though, affirming traditional contempt for homosexuality can't be taken as some neutral, above-it-all transcendence of modern nonsense: it's a denial of the human rights and human dignity of a significant portion of the human family.

Can people think of any other millennia-old doctrines that have turned out to be wrong-headed? Do they defend them because they're old?
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Freyland »

Holman wrote:
I know the site you linked is snark. But I'm seeing defenses of the Nashville Statement that are utterly sincere in the same line of argument.

Yep, this is a norm that has been changing rapidly. Already, though, affirming traditional contempt for homosexuality can't be taken as some neutral, above-it-all transcendence of modern nonsense: it's a denial of the human rights and human dignity of a significant portion of the human family.

Can people think of any other millennia-old doctrines that have turned out to be wrong-headed? Do they defend them because they're old?
I assume they defend them because there always need to be people that "upright" religious people can point to and be holier than thou. If you don't have that, and the playing field is level, suddenly there is nothing to keep your light from shining on your own sins.

Love the sinner, hate the sins. Otherwise I guess they must hate themselves.
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Kraken »

This is probably a dumb question, but according to Christians, what happened to all the souls who died before there was Christianity?
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by El Guapo »

Kraken wrote:This is probably a dumb question, but according to Christians, what happened to all the souls who died before there was Christianity?
I'm not a Christian, but my understanding is that there is a significant divide on this question. Some say they went to hell (the "tough nuggies" doctrine). In Dante's Inferno the righteous pre-Christ people are essentially (if I recall this correctly) right at the beginning of Hell, outside the first fortress / building / whatever. They are not tortured - seems like they basically just hang out and chill with each other - but they do not get to go to heaven either.

A lot of others I think put them in purgatory (which I guess is kind of similar in concept to the Dante's Inferno treatment).
Black Lives Matter.
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Isgrimnur
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Isgrimnur »

Dante says they're all chilling in the first level of hell, which is Limbo.
It's almost as if people are the problem.
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El Guapo
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by El Guapo »

BAM!

(I think - I guess Isgrimnur had a little more specificity).
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