Religion Randomness

For discussion of religion and politics

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Re: Religion Randomness

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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Holman »

Western civilization is solved: Catholic atheism FTW!
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Paingod
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Paingod »

As a lifetime atheist, I agree with this message. Either you're following the rules of your religion and get to go to heaven, or you're deliberately going against your diety and you're fucked. At least I have the 'ol fallback of "Hey Gabe, I just didn't believe anything they were saying down there" when I get to the pearly gates, right? At least, I think that's what the Pope is saying. Anyway - he's my favorite one to date.
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Isgrimnur »

*flips a coin to pick the randomness thread*

Delaware
Delaware State Senator Dave Lawson is standing by his decision to walk out of Wednesday's Senate session after it opened up with a Muslim prayer. Sen. Lawson called the prayer "despicable," and said "the Quran calls for the death of Americans," as he re-entered the session after the prayer was finished.
...
Sen. Lawson claimed he had nothing against the religion, "I have no problem with the Muslim religion, what I have a problem with is the war that we're doing; our boys and girls are being killed." He went on to say, "I exercised many of my constitutional rights, freedom of speech and right to protest, and walked out."

The imam who led the prayer is the Executive Director of the Delaware Council on Global & Muslim Affairs Naveed Baqir.

In an interview with Delaware 105.9's Rob Petree he likened Lawson's comments to Islamaphobia, "I believe this goes against the constitution, and the values that the first amendment offers." He explained further that, "this stems from deeply held beliefs that are not rooted in reality, and Senator Lawson quoted that the Quran teaches Muslims to kill infidels, which is an inaccurate statement. Islamaphobic rhetoric is real, and it is visible even in the chambers of important government institutions."

According to Baqir, the Muslim community in Delaware is shaken by Sen. Lawson's actions, "those who I had the opportunity to speak with are afraid, and are emphasizing that we need to lay-low and reduce our visibility." Baqir extended an invitation to meet with Sen. Lawson, which he agreed to on the Susan Monday Show. Plans for a such meeting have yet to be confirmed.

Senator Colin Bonini also walked out in exception of the prayer
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Skinypupy »

"I have no problem with the Muslim religion, what I have a problem with is the war that we're doing; our boys and girls are being killed."
Apparently Sen Lawson thinks the US is literally at war with a religion. Awesome.
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Smoove_B »

Sounds like the Satanists need to petition to lead an invocation in Delaware, just like they did in Florida.
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Kraken »

Isgrimnur wrote:
In an interview with Delaware 105.9's Rob Petree he likened Lawson's comments to Islamaphobia,
[/quote]

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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Smoove_B »

So, what's going on in Alabama today? Oh, the Senate is voting to allow a church to form it's own police force.
Lawmakers on Tuesday voted 24-4 to allow Briarwood Presbyterian Church in Birmingham to establish a law enforcement department. The church says it needs its own police officers to keep its school as well as its more than 4,000 person congregation safe.
That seems reasonable. I mean, when has there ever been a situation where this was a terrible idea?
Police experts have said such a police department would be unprecedented in the U.S.
I wonder why that is. Well, I guess as long as they're not enforcing Sharia law, Alabama is cool with it.
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Paingod
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Paingod »

Once we set the precedent, why not Sharia Law?

It's fun to imagine warring religious Police units, in a comic book sense. Less so in reality.
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Smoove_B »

Paingod wrote:Once we set the precedent, why not Sharia Law?
Just a guess.

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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by hepcat »

Smoove_B wrote:So, what's going on in Alabama today? Oh, the Senate is voting to allow a church to form it's own police force.
Lawmakers on Tuesday voted 24-4 to allow Briarwood Presbyterian Church in Birmingham to establish a law enforcement department. The church says it needs its own police officers to keep its school as well as its more than 4,000 person congregation safe.
That seems reasonable. I mean, when has there ever been a situation where this was a terrible idea?
Police experts have said such a police department would be unprecedented in the U.S.
I wonder why that is. Well, I guess as long as they're not enforcing Sharia law, Alabama is cool with it.
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Holman »

Unless Birmingham geography has changed a whole lot since the 1990s, my sense is that Briarwood Presbyterian is located in the rather affluent southern suburbs of the city.

They're definitely a mega-church, with a large campus that includes many buildings and a K-12 Christian school of about 2,000 students. They have their own radio station. (Apparently their school employs corporal punishment, or did. WTF?)

Judging from a few sermons and other bits posted on their website, they're hardcore Religious Right (anti-government, anti-gay, anti-"political correctness," etc) in the way of most white evangelical churches in the South. They don't seem militia-friendly, but you never know.
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Grifman »

That's ridiculous. Why a police force? Why can't they just have a private security force, if they feel they need that (which is still crazy)? Why do they feel they need arrest powers?
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Re: Religion Randomness

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Re: Religion Randomness

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Sounds like everything is working as intended. He's free to try and ask people for compliance, and they're free to tell him to get bent and file harassment claims with actual law enforcement.
It's almost as if people are the problem.
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Skinypupy »

Isgrimnur wrote:Sounds like everything is working as intended. He's free to try and ask people for compliance, and they're free to tell him to get bent and file harassment claims with actual law enforcement.
Not that it will stop any of the usual suspects from screaming "SEE! SHARIA LAW IS TAKING OVER!! FREEDOMS!! CHRISTIAN NATION! WHARRRGARRRRBL!!"
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Max Peck »

Tilt!
Turkey's referendum process was held on an "unlevel playing field", with campaigning restrictions and late procedural changes, monitors say.

Opposition events were obstructed and state resources misused, the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE) said.

In the referendum, voters gave sweeping new powers to President Erdogan.

The narrow vote was ruled valid by Turkey's electoral body, despite claims of irregularities by the opposition.

President Recep Tayyip Erdogan's push for an executive presidency succeeded with 51.4% voting for it.

"[The] referendum took place on an unlevel playing field and the two sides of the campaign did not have equal opportunities," the OSCE said in a statement.

"The campaign rhetoric was tarnished by some senior officials equating No supporters with terrorist sympathisers, and in numerous cases No supporters faced police interventions and violent scuffles at their events."
As if the issue was ever in doubt.

Edit: Oops, this went in the wrong "Randomness" thread. Although Erdogan is an Islamist... :ninja:
Last edited by Max Peck on Mon Apr 17, 2017 12:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by hepcat »

Skinypupy wrote:
Isgrimnur wrote:Sounds like everything is working as intended. He's free to try and ask people for compliance, and they're free to tell him to get bent and file harassment claims with actual law enforcement.
Not that it will stop any of the usual suspects from screaming "SEE! SHARIA LAW IS TAKING OVER!! FREEDOMS!! CHRISTIAN NATION! WHARRRGARRRRBL!!"
That was Rip's intent, but he failed once again to read the article he linked to, only to find out later it actually disproved his point. :lol:
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Rip »

hepcat wrote:
Skinypupy wrote:
Isgrimnur wrote:Sounds like everything is working as intended. He's free to try and ask people for compliance, and they're free to tell him to get bent and file harassment claims with actual law enforcement.
Not that it will stop any of the usual suspects from screaming "SEE! SHARIA LAW IS TAKING OVER!! FREEDOMS!! CHRISTIAN NATION! WHARRRGARRRRBL!!"
That was Rip's intent, but he failed once again to read the article he linked to, only to find out later it actually disproved his point. :lol:
Despite your rhetoric I never intended using it to show a Sharia law takeover. Quite the opposite, it shows that even among Muslims(at least in America) the calls for being subjected to Sharia law are viewed with disdain by many if not most.
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Re: Religion Randomness

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Oh please. You posted it with the exact opposite intent. Hence the coffee emoji. :roll:
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Re: Religion Randomness

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hepcat wrote:Oh please. You posted it with the exact opposite intent. Hence the coffee emoji. :roll:
No I didn't, I was well aware that the guy was angering a lot of Muslims with his attempts at "enforcing Sharia". As noted it is pretty much the main thrust of the article. If anything I was and am giddy that many Muslims recognize how that is inconsistent with assimilation into American society. That would seem to put us i a much better situation than many in Europe who have Muslim populations that seem to not be all that keen to assimilate.
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by hepcat »

I see what you did there. The ol' Trump Twist. :wink:
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by malchior »

hepcat wrote:I see what you did there. The ol' Trump Twist. :wink:
Seriously. The jump from coffee emoji to what he says he was expressing is like trying to dunk across the grand canyon.
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Rip »

There seems to be some conflict as to the coffee emoji's meaning. I use it to indicate something I have read that was interesting/surprising. If I intend it to be what you guys are saying I would use the ninja emoji.

Quit besmirching the coffee emoji.
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by hepcat »

Your emojis mean what I tell you they mean! :P

Now get off my yard!
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Unagi »

Rip wrote:
hepcat wrote:Oh please. You posted it with the exact opposite intent. Hence the coffee emoji. :roll:
No I didn't, I was well aware that the guy was angering a lot of Muslims with his attempts at "enforcing Sharia". As noted it is pretty much the main thrust of the article. If anything I was and am giddy that many Muslims recognize how that is inconsistent with assimilation into American society. That would seem to put us i a much better situation than many in Europe who have Muslim populations that seem to not be all that keen to assimilate.
But, but that's not the kind of thing that makes you happy. Ever. So, we are right to be confused.
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Smoove_B »

Haven't had an update here in a while. Crime a problem in your state? No worries, the Governor of KY has the answer:
Gov. Matt Bevin said in a jam-packed meeting Thursday that his plan to confront Louisville's growing violence is to have roaming prayer groups in the West End.

Bevin urged faith leaders, public officials and residents to take a 10-block span, walk corner to corner, and pray with the community two to three times a week during the next year.

He said later Thursday that the walks are meant to be organic and won't necessarily be led by his office. He didn't specify a start date but suggested that local churches should get involved with the effort.

"I'm going to ask you to walk that block, do it at the same time every single week," Bevin said. "I'm going to ask you to stick with your block all year."
As an elected official, his solution to crime is literally advocating "thoughts and prayers". Amazing. What the F are they doing with all the money they're siphoning away from my state?
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Re: Religion Randomness

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Word on the street is that they're trying to buy the Ark of the Covenant for backup though.
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Holman »

Maybe this belongs in the main Trump thread, but here's a piece on God and Trump that makes the obvious obvious: Trump claims to have religious faith because his politics require it, but there is no evidence that he has ever cared even slightly about it or that he has been active in any church anywhere during his adult life.

One of most telling anecdotes is when the newly elected Trump met two Presbyterian pastors and, learning that they did not identify as Evangelicals, asked for clarification that they were nevertheless Christians.

This would be nuts from anyone, but Trump always claims (when asked) to be a Presbyterian himself.
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Smoove_B »

Yeah, I read some other article this weekend that referenced the same story about his meeting with the Presbyterian pastors and was stunned. It makes me think he could meet with people from the Westboro Baptist Church and be fine with whatever they're doing because the first thing they say is they're Christians. I feel like I'm repeating myself, but with every passing day, he becomes more frightening to me.
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Re: Religion Randomness

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Smoove_B wrote:I feel like I'm repeating myself, but with every passing day, he becomes more frightening to me.
Because he doesn't care about religion?

I don't know all the different factions, sects, and splinter groups in religion either, but I'm an atheist that's just never seen a reason to. It all kind of blends together into one pot in my head with some swirls being brighter and nuttier - like Westboro.
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Holman »

Paingod wrote:
Smoove_B wrote:I feel like I'm repeating myself, but with every passing day, he becomes more frightening to me.
Because he doesn't care about religion?

I don't know all the different factions, sects, and splinter groups in religion either, but I'm an atheist that's just never seen a reason to. It all kind of blends together into one pot in my head with some swirls being brighter and nuttier - like Westboro.
It's not the lack of faith, it's the hypocrisy. And more than that, the stupidity.

For Trump to be a Presbyterian and not know that Presbyterians are not necessarily Evangelicals indicates a total ignorance of the church he claims as his own. Inside church walls, these things matter.

To be a Presbyterian and then seriously wonder whether a Presbyterian is also a Christian indicates ignorance of... just about everything.
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Paingod »

Holman wrote:To be a Presbyterian and then seriously wonder whether a Presbyterian is also a Christian indicates ignorance of... just about everything.
Okay, that makes more sense - but it's still completely in line with the rest of his completely ignorant self-created reality. I'm surprised that anyone's surprised.
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Smoove_B »

I guess it was that I'm still amazed at the depth and width of his apparent ignorance. Could I tell you exactly what a Presbyterian believes? No. Would I ask one if they were Christian? It's unfathomable. I'm beginning to think that not only is being President Trump's first real job (which in and of itself is frightening enough) but that this is also the most he's ever dealt with people that weren't his special handlers.
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Re: Religion Randomness

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It's the first time he's ever faced pushback that couldn't be stopped with threats, bribes, or lawsuits.
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Re: Religion Randomness

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Holman wrote:It's the first time he's ever faced pushback that couldn't be stopped with threats, bribes, or lawsuits.
He has faced successful opposition in the past, but he just denies it in his self-created mythology. He never acknowledges his defeats, so he never learns from them.
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Grifman »

Holman wrote:For Trump to be a Presbyterian and not know that Presbyterians are not necessarily Evangelicals indicates a total ignorance of the church he claims as his own. Inside church walls, these things matter.
Trump is a Presbyterian/Christian in the same way a gnat flying through an open Presbyterian church window is a Presbyterian/Christian.
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Moliere »

Grifman wrote:
Holman wrote:For Trump to be a Presbyterian and not know that Presbyterians are not necessarily Evangelicals indicates a total ignorance of the church he claims as his own. Inside church walls, these things matter.
Trump is a Presbyterian/Christian in the same way a gnat flying through an open Presbyterian church window is a Presbyterian/Christian.
I'm offended that you would insult gnats with that comparison.
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Grifman »

An interesting article on the continuing tradition of saying grace before meals in America:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/so ... 9eb1ae68a8
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Isgrimnur »

Arkansas (say it like it's spelled)
A Van Buren man was arrested on Wednesday morning after running his car into a newly placed 10 Commandments statue at the Arkansas State Capitol.

32-year-old Michael Tate Reed drove through the statue around 4:47 a.m. on Wednesday while filming on his cell phone and posting it to Facebook.

According to CBS affiliate 5NEWS, Reed has a history of similar behavior. He was charged with destruction of state property or improvements, indecent exposure, making threatening statements, reckless driving and operating a vehicle with a revoked license back in 2014.

Reed is being held in the Pulaski County Detention Center on charges of defacing an object of public interest, criminal trespassing and first degree criminal mischief.

The controversial 10 Commandments monument had been placed at the Arkansas State Capitol on Tuesday morning, less than 24 hours before it was destroyed.
FFRF
The Freedom From Religion Foundation is calling the state of Arkansas' decision to place a massive Ten Commandments monument at the Capitol a huge misstep.
...
"We expect that this monument will be challenged by Arkansas citizens and that it will be struck down by our courts, which have an obligation to uphold the First Amendment," says FFRF Co-President Annie Laurie Gaylor. "This shameless promotion of religion by legislators will not be allowed to stand."
I deplore the use of vandalism to make a point, if this guy even had one, but I admit to being amused.
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