ISIS beheads journalist James Wright Foley

msduncan · Post by **msduncan** » Tue Aug 19, 2014 7:28 pm

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Tue Aug 19, 2014 7:33 pm

To be clear, is that a link to a site that shows video or picture stills from the beheading? Because...I just don't need to see that anymore.

msduncan · Post by **msduncan** » Tue Aug 19, 2014 7:34 pm

Sorry, no it's not graphic. It's a link to the Daily Mail and is safe. Shows nothing graphic.

They are apparently also holding Steven Joel Soltoff, Time magazine reporter.

Moliere · Post by **Moliere** » Tue Aug 19, 2014 7:57 pm

Gotta love their logic: we will continue executing these journalists until you call off your airstrikes that are slowing us down from executing those people who disagree with us.

em2nought · Post by **em2nought** » Tue Aug 19, 2014 9:47 pm

Let's send Geraldo.

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Tue Aug 19, 2014 9:50 pm

em2nought wrote:Let's send Geraldo.

I was thinking Piers Morgan.

Moliere · Post by **Moliere** » Tue Aug 19, 2014 10:08 pm

Rip wrote:
em2nought wrote:Let's send Geraldo.
I was thinking Piers Morgan.

Because they have done something worthy of being executed?

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Tue Aug 19, 2014 10:31 pm

Moliere wrote:
Rip wrote:
em2nought wrote:Let's send Geraldo.
I was thinking Piers Morgan.
Because they have done something worthy of being executed?

I don't think any have. BUT if someone has to that is my choice.

JSHAW · Post by **JSHAW** » Wed Aug 20, 2014 1:21 pm

As much as I don't want more deaths of US troops I feel it's time to airdrop the troops in
like a D-Day invasion X1000 times more powerful and wipe out ISIS where they stand.

Is it just me or is ISIS more funded financially than Al-Qaeda ever was? More powerful, better equipped.

When ISIS shows up on the White House lawn or Times Square is that what it's going to take
for the Commander-in-Chief to put the "boots on the ground"?

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Wed Aug 20, 2014 1:42 pm

I've spent (not enough) time thinking about these guys, and they are complete barbarians. It's weird to imagine Ghengis Khan in the time of ipods. I can't get behind the idea of capital punishment because the chance of making a mistake is too great a price to pay, although I can and do agree that some people deserve death. I believe the outrageous acts ISIS is committing has put them the "kill them all" category for me.

That's pretty rare for me, but that's where I am at the moment. I'm not even all that furious. It's more like a rabid dog that needs to be put down. Not because you hate them, but because they are so damaged, and such a danger that anything else seems needlessly risky.

I read the "we will drown you in blood" comment and literally laughed out loud. How stupid and myopic are these people? I hate to say it, but this might require a full blown military campaign. Sad face. Unless we can find and bomb the crap out of their leadership and secondary leadership.

edit: I think it's unreasonable to be criticizing the administration because they aren't doing what you want them to do. I'm not sure getting involved in more middle east quagmires is the best course of action for your country right now. It's not like there aren't other hotspots in the world with similar atrocities happening, although in this case, the US has greater moral responsibility imo.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Wed Aug 20, 2014 1:43 pm

JSHAW wrote: Is it just me or is ISIS more funded financially than Al-Qaeda ever was? More powerful, better equipped.

The first thing they did after invading Iraq was loot army bases of all the American supplied hardware and rob banks of all the American supplied cash.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Wed Aug 20, 2014 1:49 pm

The way I see it is we obviously hurt them and hurt them badly. These guys are inherently are bunch of cowards. Faced with any real resistance they are throwing a tantrum. These pinheads are the worst of humanity - I definitely am in the fuck them camp.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Wed Aug 20, 2014 1:58 pm

malchior wrote:These guys are inherently are bunch of cowards.

I think you must be using the Hollywood definition of "coward". They are bulies to be sure. Cowards, probably not.

I do like the idea that they were hurt, and I think that is a reasonable assumption given the set backs they've experienced as a result of the bombings, such as losing control of the dam mentioned earlier.

JSHAW · Post by **JSHAW** » Wed Aug 20, 2014 2:09 pm

I realize I'm venting at what I "wish" would happen, rather than the logical steps we are currently
using. I just believe that at some point, maybe sooner rather than later Obama's not going to be able to keep his "no boots on the ground" agreement.

I am in the "fuck em' all" camp, however that needs to be done I'm all for, INCLUDING
the full military campaign scenario.

In regards to their funding, I recently read a report on how they came about getting their
funding, and equipment. The report said at the moment they ARE the most well funded terrorist outfit that's active, which for me say's they're a serious threat that needs to be wiped out

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Wed Aug 20, 2014 2:42 pm

Wipe out their funding..Syria and others.

Post by **ImLawBoy** » Wed Aug 20, 2014 2:51 pm

Daehawk wrote:Wipe out their funding..Syria and others.

They're one of the main groups fighting to overthrow the regime in Syria. You probably need to do a little more research on this topic.

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Wed Aug 20, 2014 3:21 pm

Seems. I thought they were funding by them.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Wed Aug 20, 2014 4:11 pm

Daehawk wrote:Seems. I thought they were funding by them.

No, as lawboy points out, they were, briefly, the good guys in Syria. Well, they kinda co-oped the revolution/civil war for their own purposes and fought against the government. Early on they as well as other groups were identified as "bad" amongst the the rebels, but since they were fighting against the government they got a cautious pass from the media, public and state (other than Syria's of course).

Carpet_pissr · Post by **Carpet_pissr** » Wed Aug 20, 2014 5:34 pm

Dammit, I am extremely reluctant to agree, but agree I do.

NPR was interviewing an ex-Colonel the other day (I think he runs a think tank now, no pun intended), who basically said we can bomb them all we want, and use drones, but ultimately, if we want to wipe out the threat, it's going to take a deployment of soldiers on the ground.

As we all probably know from past experience, air strikes are limited in what they can do...they can deter, and slow down, but if you mean to completely eliminate a threat...old school is the way still.

Moliere · Post by **Moliere** » Wed Aug 20, 2014 6:56 pm

Carpet_pissr wrote:As we all probably know from past experience, air strikes are limited in what they can do...they can deter, and slow down, but if you mean to completely eliminate a threat...old school is the way still.

You think we can completely eliminate the extremist Muslim threat in the Middle East with boots on the ground?

Given their propensity for hitting weddings and schools, I thought airstrikes were designed to take out the terrorists before they could be born or grow up?

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Wed Aug 20, 2014 7:08 pm

Moliere wrote:You think we can completely eliminate the extremist Muslim threat in the Middle East with boots on the ground?

Nope, just ISIS.

Zarathud · Post by **Zarathud** » Wed Aug 20, 2014 7:13 pm

Journalist goes into high risk area and gets captured then killed by bad guys. Tragedy, but not a reason to put boots on the ground.

We cannot successfully occupy the Middle East to put down the bad guys. We just did this in Iraq. It didn't work then and it won't work now. Thinking we can get a different result from doing the same thing again is insane.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Wed Aug 20, 2014 7:19 pm

Zarathud wrote:Journalist goes into high risk area and gets captured then killed by bad guys. Tragedy, but not a reason to put boots on the ground.

We cannot successfully occupy the Middle East to put down the bad guys. We just did this in Iraq. It didn't work then and it won't work now. Thinking we can get a different result from doing the same thing again is insane.

No, but the thousands of people being starved to death under the threat of convert or die might be a reason to put boots on the ground. Given that this particular group is Christian should be an easy sell to the American public. I'm not sure what the goal was in Iraq, but going in to smash an organization 40,000 strong, until they are either dead or just remnants might be doable. Especially if they are nice enough to stand around together for a few minutes (which is the real sticking point, imo).

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Wed Aug 20, 2014 7:24 pm

News today is that U.S. Special Forces tried and failed to rescue Foley and other hostages in July.

But when the Special Operations team arrived on the scene, the hostages were not there. Officials said the commandos exchanged fire with militants, and one American was slightly wounded when one of the United States aircraft came under fire.

All of the team members were evacuated successfully. “It was not ultimately successful because the hostages were not present at the location of the operation,” a senior administration official said, speaking on background about the mission. “We obviously wish this had been successful.”

Officials declined to say exactly how many hostages they were trying to rescue or to provide the names of the people who they believed were being held captive by the militants. “I don’t want to get into our assessment of specific names on that score,” one official said.

There is also news that the U.K. is investigating whether Foley's executioner might be a British citizen.

msduncan · Post by **msduncan** » Wed Aug 20, 2014 8:14 pm

GreenGoo wrote:I've spent (not enough) time thinking about these guys, and they are complete barbarians. It's weird to imagine Ghengis Khan in the time of ipods. I can't get behind the idea of capital punishment because the chance of making a mistake is too great a price to pay, although I can and do agree that some people deserve death. I believe the outrageous acts ISIS is committing has put them the "kill them all" category for me.

That's pretty rare for me, but that's where I am at the moment. I'm not even all that furious. It's more like a rabid dog that needs to be put down. Not because you hate them, but because they are so damaged, and such a danger that anything else seems needlessly risky.

I read the "we will drown you in blood" comment and literally laughed out loud. How stupid and myopic are these people? I hate to say it, but this might require a full blown military campaign. Sad face. Unless we can find and bomb the crap out of their leadership and secondary leadership.

edit: I think it's unreasonable to be criticizing the administration because they aren't doing what you want them to do. I'm not sure getting involved in more middle east quagmires is the best course of action for your country right now. It's not like there aren't other hotspots in the world with similar atrocities happening, although in this case, the US has greater moral responsibility imo.

GreenGoo, I think we are in agreement. These people are just about as close to pure evil as I've seen in my lifetime. Photos of the atrocities they are committing seem almost too unspeakable to be true. They are quite literally crucifying people. As in -- nailing live people on crosses and leaving them there hanging until death. Apparently they are doing other things as equally bad or worse.

They are also using social media to try to raise supporters and insurrection in other countries. I've often wondered how we avoided massacres on US soil this past decade. Stuff like the church horror that happened in Russia. I'm wondering if ISIS might be evil enough and brazen enough to start that up if they aren't eliminated.

What can men do against such wreckless hate?

JSHAW · Post by **JSHAW** » Wed Aug 20, 2014 8:15 pm

GreenGoo wrote:
Zarathud wrote:Journalist goes into high risk area and gets captured then killed by bad guys. Tragedy, but not a reason to put boots on the ground.

We cannot successfully occupy the Middle East to put down the bad guys. We just did this in Iraq. It didn't work then and it won't work now. Thinking we can get a different result from doing the same thing again is insane.
No, but the thousands of people being starved to death under the threat of convert or die might be a reason to put boots on the ground. Given that this particular group is Christian should be an easy sell to the American public. I'm not sure what the goal was in Iraq, but going in to smash an organization 40,000 strong, until they are either dead or just remnants might be doable. Especially if they are nice enough to stand around together for a few minutes (which is the real sticking point, imo).

Which group are you referring to as being Christian?

To my knowledge, ISIS is the group that's thrown down the gauntlet to all Christians in Iraq, giving them the ultimatum convert to Islam or die. Which is why all the Christians have been fleeing to the north.

msduncan · Post by **msduncan** » Wed Aug 20, 2014 8:18 pm

GreenGoo wrote:
Daehawk wrote:Seems. I thought they were funding by them.
No, as lawboy points out, they were, briefly, the good guys in Syria. Well, they kinda co-oped the revolution/civil war for their own purposes and fought against the government. Early on they as well as other groups were identified as "bad" amongst the the rebels, but since they were fighting against the government they got a cautious pass from the media, public and state (other than Syria's of course).

The articles I read reported that the first 6 months of that revolution were dominated by normal Syrians. These guys co-oped the effort, or hijacked it. After that MANY of the normal and original revolutionaries walked away from it because these guys were so radical and crazy they didn't want to be a part of it.

As much as I hate to agree with Hillary Clinton, she was right. When she talked about how we should have aided the rebels in Syria -- she was referring to the ORIGINAL rebels. Not ISIS which basically took over the rebellion after 6 months to a year. Our failing to aid them left the door open for these people -- who are radical beyond the measure of radical.

msduncan · Post by **msduncan** » Wed Aug 20, 2014 8:20 pm

Zarathud wrote:Journalist goes into high risk area and gets captured then killed by bad guys. Tragedy, but not a reason to put boots on the ground.

We cannot successfully occupy the Middle East to put down the bad guys. We just did this in Iraq. It didn't work then and it won't work now. Thinking we can get a different result from doing the same thing again is insane.

Does history mean nothing to you? ISIS is seizing control of wide swaths of the middle east. Voices such as yours were saying the same isolationist things when the Nazis were doing the same things in the 1930's. Peace now hell or high water even if it means they are at our doorsteps later.

ISIS makes the Nazis look like boy scouts.

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Wed Aug 20, 2014 8:23 pm

msduncan wrote:
GreenGoo wrote:I've spent (not enough) time thinking about these guys, and they are complete barbarians. It's weird to imagine Ghengis Khan in the time of ipods. I can't get behind the idea of capital punishment because the chance of making a mistake is too great a price to pay, although I can and do agree that some people deserve death. I believe the outrageous acts ISIS is committing has put them the "kill them all" category for me.

That's pretty rare for me, but that's where I am at the moment. I'm not even all that furious. It's more like a rabid dog that needs to be put down. Not because you hate them, but because they are so damaged, and such a danger that anything else seems needlessly risky.

I read the "we will drown you in blood" comment and literally laughed out loud. How stupid and myopic are these people? I hate to say it, but this might require a full blown military campaign. Sad face. Unless we can find and bomb the crap out of their leadership and secondary leadership.

edit: I think it's unreasonable to be criticizing the administration because they aren't doing what you want them to do. I'm not sure getting involved in more middle east quagmires is the best course of action for your country right now. It's not like there aren't other hotspots in the world with similar atrocities happening, although in this case, the US has greater moral responsibility imo.

GreenGoo, I think we are in agreement. These people are just about as close to pure evil as I've seen in my lifetime. Photos of the atrocities they are committing seem almost too unspeakable to be true. They are quite literally crucifying people. As in -- nailing live people on crosses and leaving them there hanging until death. Apparently they are doing other things as equally bad or worse.

They are also using social media to try to raise supporters and insurrection in other countries. I've often wondered how we avoided massacres on US soil this past decade. Stuff like the church horror that happened in Russia. I'm wondering if ISIS might be evil enough and brazen enough to start that up if they aren't eliminated.

What can men do against such wreckless hate?

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Wed Aug 20, 2014 8:25 pm

JSHAW wrote:Which group are you referring to as being Christian?

The ones getting their heads cut off and/or crucified.

edit: Just accidentally stumbled across pictures of ISIS atrocities at Catholic online. Nothing like seeing the body of a little girl (christian) with her head missing to start thinking maybe sending over some troops might be a good use of my tax dollars.

It's a genocide of Iraqi Christians, imo. And that ain't happy making.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Wed Aug 20, 2014 8:31 pm

Holman wrote:There is also news that the U.K. is investigating whether Foley's executioner might be a British citizen.

Whether he's an actual citizen or not, the articles I read identified his accent as belonging to the south east part of London. Apparently there are 3 British muslims who are "in charge" of foreign prisoners in Syria, and this guy recently spearheaded a hostage exchange for ransom in Turkey. The article mentioned that about 500 jihadists are from Britain.

msduncan · Post by **msduncan** » Wed Aug 20, 2014 8:54 pm

GreenGoo wrote:
Holman wrote:There is also news that the U.K. is investigating whether Foley's executioner might be a British citizen.
Whether he's an actual citizen or not, the articles I read identified his accent as belonging to the south east part of London. Apparently there are 3 British muslims who are "in charge" of foreign prisoners in Syria, and this guy recently spearheaded a hostage exchange for ransom in Turkey. The article mentioned that about 500 jihadists are from Britain.

There was also an article I'm trying to dig up that talks about how France and a couple other European nations, against the advice of the US and British, have been paying millions in ransom to this network of jihadists.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Wed Aug 20, 2014 9:03 pm

msduncan wrote: Does history mean nothing to you? ISIS is seizing control of wide swaths of the middle east. Voices such as yours were saying the same isolationist things when the Nazis were doing the same things in the 1930's. Peace now hell or high water even if it means they are at our doorsteps later.

I'm with you on wanting these guys stomped. No reservations there. I'd be happy to see air strikes and precision land strikes for as long as it takes. I'm a hawk against religious extremism and always have been.

But... just to complexify the scene: they're not really seizing control of "wide swaths of the middle east" so much as they are seizing the Sunni parts of Iraq. And they're only able to do this in coalition with other Sunni groups in Iraq who are equally alienated from the Maliki regime, which has been quite nastily anti-Sunni in almost every way. The Sunnis in ISIS-controlled towns are all not thoroughgoing ISIS loyalists themselves, and they are not interested in the "Caliphate" the ISIS media officers talk about. They're not as big or as monolithic as they look.

I'm basing my sense of the situation on assessments like this one:

ISIS, to begin, is only one of an almost uncountable mélange of Sunni militant groups. Besides ISIS, the Sunni insurgency that has risen up against the government of Nouri al-Maliki includes another jihadi group, Ansar al-Islam (Supporters of Islam), as well as the Military Council of the Tribes of Iraq, comprising as many as eighty tribes, and the Army of the Men of the Naqshbandi Order, a group that claims to have Shiite and Kurdish members and certainly includes many Sunni Baathists once loyal to Saddam Hussein.

This is a partial list. The important point is that within the forces that have proven so powerful in recent weeks are groups with profound differences, even mutual hatred. ISIS, for example, has turned on al-Qaeda, its parent, for being too moderate, and considers Baathists to be infidels. These disparate groups are fighting together now, yes, but they won’t be together for long. And they have been fighting in places where local populations are friendly to them. It will be a different matter when they meet the tough and motivated Kurdish peshmerga or Shiite forces in the Shiites’ own regions.

This is why the news of Maliki's fall is heartening. Even a semi-pluralist Iraq will weaken ISIS control in much of the area it has taken. I think ISIS represents a local mania, not a world-changing movement on the cusp of global power.

But, yeah, we should stomp them. We have all the right reasons for that.

msduncan · Post by **msduncan** » Wed Aug 20, 2014 9:40 pm

I just want to know when the Middle East will at least try to join us in the 21st century

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Wed Aug 20, 2014 10:02 pm

Why? They're having so much fun in the medieval ages.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Wed Aug 20, 2014 10:21 pm

In another 565 years, according to their calendar.

Combustible Lemur · Post by **Combustible Lemur** » Wed Aug 20, 2014 11:05 pm

msduncan wrote:
Zarathud wrote:Journalist goes into high risk area and gets captured then killed by bad guys. Tragedy, but not a reason to put boots on the ground.

We cannot successfully occupy the Middle East to put down the bad guys. We just did this in Iraq. It didn't work then and it won't work now. Thinking we can get a different result from doing the same thing again is insane.
Does history mean nothing to you? ISIS is seizing control of wide swaths of the middle east. Voices such as yours were saying the same isolationist things when the Nazis were doing the same things in the 1930's. Peace now hell or high water even if it means they are at our doorsteps later.

ISIS makes the Nazis look like boy scouts.

Just remember this during the next war. The nazis were given a route to power directly from the treaties in the aftermath of WW1. Vietnam happened after the UN refused to recognize them as an independent nation which led to the French war, Afghanistan is a cluster fuck from imperialism.
Yes, let's kill them all, but blowback isn't a fantasy. Even in this case.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Wed Aug 20, 2014 11:10 pm

msduncan wrote:
GreenGoo wrote:
Holman wrote:There is also news that the U.K. is investigating whether Foley's executioner might be a British citizen.
Whether he's an actual citizen or not, the articles I read identified his accent as belonging to the south east part of London. Apparently there are 3 British muslims who are "in charge" of foreign prisoners in Syria, and this guy recently spearheaded a hostage exchange for ransom in Turkey. The article mentioned that about 500 jihadists are from Britain.
There was also an article I'm trying to dig up that talks about how France and a couple other European nations, against the advice of the US and British, have been paying millions in ransom to this network of jihadists.

That could be, but I suspect it's small potatoes when compared to the hundreds of millions they've looted.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Wed Aug 20, 2014 11:12 pm

Combustible Lemur wrote:
msduncan wrote:
Zarathud wrote:Journalist goes into high risk area and gets captured then killed by bad guys. Tragedy, but not a reason to put boots on the ground.

We cannot successfully occupy the Middle East to put down the bad guys. We just did this in Iraq. It didn't work then and it won't work now. Thinking we can get a different result from doing the same thing again is insane.
Does history mean nothing to you? ISIS is seizing control of wide swaths of the middle east. Voices such as yours were saying the same isolationist things when the Nazis were doing the same things in the 1930's. Peace now hell or high water even if it means they are at our doorsteps later.

ISIS makes the Nazis look like boy scouts.
Just remember this during the next war. The nazis were given a route to power directly from the treaties in the aftermath of WW1. Vietnam happened after the UN refused to recognize them as an independent nation which led to the French war, Afghanistan is a cluster fuck from imperialism.
Yes, let's kill them all, but blowback isn't a fantasy. Even in this case.

I'm not following. The blow back is happening. Right now. I wonder how Saddam would have handled it.

Combustible Lemur · Post by **Combustible Lemur** » Wed Aug 20, 2014 11:26 pm

GreenGoo wrote:
Combustible Lemur wrote:
msduncan wrote:
Zarathud wrote:Journalist goes into high risk area and gets captured then killed by bad guys. Tragedy, but not a reason to put boots on the ground.

We cannot successfully occupy the Middle East to put down the bad guys. We just did this in Iraq. It didn't work then and it won't work now. Thinking we can get a different result from doing the same thing again is insane.
Does history mean nothing to you? ISIS is seizing control of wide swaths of the middle east. Voices such as yours were saying the same isolationist things when the Nazis were doing the same things in the 1930's. Peace now hell or high water even if it means they are at our doorsteps later.

ISIS makes the Nazis look like boy scouts.
Just remember this during the next war. The nazis were given a route to power directly from the treaties in the aftermath of WW1. Vietnam happened after the UN refused to recognize them as an independent nation which led to the French war, Afghanistan is a cluster fuck from imperialism.
Yes, let's kill them all, but blowback isn't a fantasy. Even in this case.
I'm not following. The blow back is happening. Right now. I wonder how Saddam would have handled it.

That's my point,