What is the greatest threat to America?

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Tue Oct 21, 2014 6:51 pm

I like polls, but decided not to bias responses by putting up my own list of suggestions.

There are three ways you could interpret the question: What's the biggest existential threat to America as a country or society (which is what I mean to ask); what's the biggest physical threat to Americans in general; and what threatens you personally as an American? One might also consider immediate, near-term, and long-term threats to be different things.

Answer it however you like.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Tue Oct 21, 2014 7:06 pm

Income inequality is the biggest threat to what we used to call the American Dream and the American way of life.

The overreach of the Security State is the biggest threat to liberty, particularly to freedom of the press.

I don't see any external existential threats to America in general. Terrorists could hurt us badly (a dirty bomb ruins a city), and foreign governments could sabotage our economy, but neither will destroy us. The greatest short-/mid-term existential threat is ideological fragmentation into two or more incompatible societies. Our cultural-political echo chambers will do more harm than Al Qaeda could ever imagine.

The long-term existential threat is environmental collapse, but that will get everyone if it happens.

Moliere · Post by **Moliere** » Tue Oct 21, 2014 7:45 pm

Holman wrote:Terrorists could hurt us badly (a dirty bomb ruins a city)

Imagine what happens to our liberty and freedom of speech when (because it will happen eventually) a terrorist manages to nuke a U.S. city. You can kiss the Constitution goodbye.

Pyperkub · Post by **Pyperkub** » Tue Oct 21, 2014 7:53 pm

Moliere wrote:
Holman wrote:Terrorists could hurt us badly (a dirty bomb ruins a city)
Imagine what happens to our liberty and freedom of speech when (because it will happen eventually) a terrorist manages to nuke a U.S. city. You can kiss the Constitution goodbye.

I'm pretty sure we already did. Big Brother is watching.

AWS260 · Post by **AWS260** » Tue Oct 21, 2014 9:24 pm

What Holman said.

Apollo · Post by **Apollo** » Tue Oct 21, 2014 9:26 pm

My greatest concern is that Corporate America is no longer truly invested in the nation's future. With growing markets all over the globe, there's no longer any concern about, for example, growing the American Middle Class the way Henry Ford and other industrialists attempted to do 100 years ago. Now the US is just another market to be exploited fiscally and politically.

msduncan · Post by **msduncan** » Tue Oct 21, 2014 9:41 pm

Security state/big brother. In that sense the 9/11 terrorists delt the biggest blow to who we are than anything that has happened to us previously.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Tue Oct 21, 2014 9:52 pm

What AWS said about what Holman said.

Lassr · Post by **Lassr** » Tue Oct 21, 2014 10:07 pm

What Holman and Apollo said.

Defiant · Post by **Defiant** » Tue Oct 21, 2014 10:14 pm

People. People are the greatest threat to America.

We got 99 problems, but non-made-man ones aren't one. No people, no problems.

People are also our greatest safeguard.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Tue Oct 21, 2014 11:18 pm

Dreadnoughts.

$iljanus · Post by **$iljanus** » Tue Oct 21, 2014 11:33 pm

Ourselves.

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Tue Oct 21, 2014 11:43 pm

I agree that income inequality and the decline of the middle class is our greatest existential threat, along with the closely related ratification of selling the government to the 1% via Citizens United. The country will cease to represent the people who nominally constitute the government, if it hasn't already. This could end with Drazzil's hoped-for revolution. More likely, though, the elite preserves its hegemony with bread and circuses and populist charades while the military-industrial complex thrives on perpetual war (thanks, Muslims!) that brings a new imperium. If Rome's patricians could pull it off, so can ours.

In other words the American Republic is already dead or close to it, but the American Empire's greatest days might be aborning.

Long-term, climate change will lead to a general collapse of the world civilization. Maybe the Muslim world will finally prevail by virtue of having never joined civilization in the first place.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Wed Oct 22, 2014 12:18 am

In the short term the only real existential threats to America as a country are apocalyptic - nuclear weapons (which if they're destroying America are probably destroying the world) or some super-plague that wipes out tens of millions (thereby causing general societal breakdown). Or advanced aliens discover Earth.

Over the long-term (50+ years) I suppose it's theoretical that China or a Chinese led alliance could pose an existential threat.

em2nought · Post by **em2nought** » Wed Oct 22, 2014 12:24 am

Growth of the welfare state has already doomed the USA, too late to even bother worrying about big brother or income inequality. So yeah "people" and human nature were what was most dangerous to us.

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Wed Oct 22, 2014 1:20 am

Rock music?

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Wed Oct 22, 2014 1:26 am

Aw c'mon, nobody's going to take ebola?

RLMullen · Post by **RLMullen** » Wed Oct 22, 2014 5:56 am

Fear is the greatest threat. Fear leads to stupid decisions. Stupid decisions destroy.

msduncan · Post by **msduncan** » Wed Oct 22, 2014 8:04 am

El Guapo wrote:In the short term the only real existential threats to America as a country are apocalyptic - nuclear weapons (which if they're destroying America are probably destroying the world) or some super-plague that wipes out tens of millions (thereby causing general societal breakdown). Or advanced aliens discover Earth.

Over the long-term (50+ years) I suppose it's theoretical that China or a Chinese led alliance could pose an existential threat.

Not sure... I think some sort of EMP type disruption could be the most dangerous and likely existential threat. Forget about the fact that you could create these conditions in a somewhat limited way by detonating a nuke above the United States because I think the likelihood of that happening is probably pretty rare. A Carrington Level (or worse) event of a double hit by two back to back solar ejections would destroy our electric infrastructure for many months or even a year or more. This would cause absolute chaos and death, and a chain reaction of death from related events.

Contrary to popular belief, automobiles would not "blink out" and stop working. You could drive around for a while. However, with no electricity the flow of gasoline would dry up pretty quickly. Without the massive logistic infrastructure (semi trucks) for delivering food -- that would dry up quickly too.

Some scientists give as much as a 10% change of a Carrington level event to occur during solar maximums, and nobody really knows how frequently it's happened to earth since it really went undetected prior to the telegraph.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Wed Oct 22, 2014 9:54 am

msduncan wrote:
El Guapo wrote:In the short term the only real existential threats to America as a country are apocalyptic - nuclear weapons (which if they're destroying America are probably destroying the world) or some super-plague that wipes out tens of millions (thereby causing general societal breakdown). Or advanced aliens discover Earth.

Over the long-term (50+ years) I suppose it's theoretical that China or a Chinese led alliance could pose an existential threat.
Not sure... I think some sort of EMP type disruption could be the most dangerous and likely existential threat. Forget about the fact that you could create these conditions in a somewhat limited way by detonating a nuke above the United States because I think the likelihood of that happening is probably pretty rare. A Carrington Level (or worse) event of a double hit by two back to back solar ejections would destroy our electric infrastructure for many months or even a year or more. This would cause absolute chaos and death, and a chain reaction of death from related events.

Contrary to popular belief, automobiles would not "blink out" and stop working. You could drive around for a while. However, with no electricity the flow of gasoline would dry up pretty quickly. Without the massive logistic infrastructure (semi trucks) for delivering food -- that would dry up quickly too.

Some scientists give as much as a 10% change of a Carrington level event to occur during solar maximums, and nobody really knows how frequently it's happened to earth since it really went undetected prior to the telegraph.

That would be devastating for Americans to be sure, but as "existential" threat to the *country* would have to cause the United States to cease to exist as an independent country. Destruction of our electric infrastructure for months or a year would cause enormous personal suffering, but it's not like the states would suddenly secede or the union would dissolve (though maybe Texas takes its chance to leave).

So that's why I said any existential threat (other than foreign conquest, which is almost impossible now but could become possible many decades down the line) has to be essentially apocalyptic in nature, a la Mad Max. Breakdown in civil authority where armed gangs can take and hold large chunks of territory.

I should say that in the rosy version of the future, I assume that one day the United States would become a subset of a continental / global / solar government of some type (say, the United Federation of Planets) - could be some type of North American union before joining a planetary (or close to it) government. That would cause the U.S. to cease to exist as an independent nation, so I suppose would be existential in nature, though it would be voluntary (hopefully) in nature, so wouldn't exactly be a "threat."

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Wed Oct 22, 2014 10:03 am

msduncan wrote:
El Guapo wrote:In the short term the only real existential threats to America as a country are apocalyptic - nuclear weapons (which if they're destroying America are probably destroying the world) or some super-plague that wipes out tens of millions (thereby causing general societal breakdown). Or advanced aliens discover Earth.

Over the long-term (50+ years) I suppose it's theoretical that China or a Chinese led alliance could pose an existential threat.
Not sure... I think some sort of EMP type disruption could be the most dangerous and likely existential threat. Forget about the fact that you could create these conditions in a somewhat limited way by detonating a nuke above the United States because I think the likelihood of that happening is probably pretty rare. A Carrington Level (or worse) event of a double hit by two back to back solar ejections would destroy our electric infrastructure for many months or even a year or more. This would cause absolute chaos and death, and a chain reaction of death from related events.

Contrary to popular belief, automobiles would not "blink out" and stop working. You could drive around for a while. However, with no electricity the flow of gasoline would dry up pretty quickly. Without the massive logistic infrastructure (semi trucks) for delivering food -- that would dry up quickly too.

Some scientists give as much as a 10% change of a Carrington level event to occur during solar maximums, and nobody really knows how frequently it's happened to earth since it really went undetected prior to the telegraph.

Tremendous loss of capital, property, and lives? Yes. End of America? I doubt it. Recovery is completely possible.

Still, it's a legitimate threat but we're working on preventive measures.

Tangental good reading: Electricity Today.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Wed Oct 22, 2014 10:05 am

em2nought wrote:Growth of the welfare state has already doomed the USA, too late to even bother worrying about big brother or income inequality. So yeah "people" and human nature were what was most dangerous to us.

Tell that to most of Western Europe. They seem to be chugging along just fine.

Scraper · Post by **Scraper** » Wed Oct 22, 2014 10:12 am

Big Brother is already changing our expectations of government oversight. Just 15 years ago it would have been hard to imagine all of the cameras we now have spying on our cities. I remember going to Eastern Europe in 2000 and being stunned by the amount of government cameras they had watching their streets. Now our major cities have even more.

Another viable threat that I don't think anyone has mentioned is A.I. In the past we could just write it off as science fiction, but more and more knowledgeable people raise it as an area of concern, so I think it will become possible that an A.I. becomes "self aware" and sees humanity as problem, unless we are careful.

Carpet_pissr · Post by **Carpet_pissr** » Wed Oct 22, 2014 10:32 am

Death panels.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Wed Oct 22, 2014 10:44 am

Carpet_pissr wrote:Death panels.

Gay Marriage will do us in long before death panels.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Wed Oct 22, 2014 11:00 am

(Willful?) Ignorance and (short sighted) greed.

They're a horrible combination. America has a sense of entitlement. We vote with it. We work for it. And we fight for it. We are collectively became the alpha male of the world from 1914 to 1888.

And now we have this us vs them mentality and we are also victims of us vs them while we continue to use resources at a rate that might not be sustainable for 20 years, let along 50 or 100. We put politicians in office beholden to corporate interests that drain or ability to produce while feeding our desire to consume that will flee to China and leave the US hanging the moment it is in their interest to do so and they are reinforcing that interest because China are a growing market where the US is saturated. And the US and China that us vs them attitude all the while.

Would/Will it be ecology, economy, or tribalism that does us in? I have no idea but ignorance and greed will/would be the vehicle we ride in to get there.

As an American, nothing threatens me much. As an American, I fear a bit of the post employment economy we are riding Walllstreet to deliver us to and racial/nationalistic pride making global war for my nieces and nephews a reality. But I have very little national pride, I suppose. I'd love to see America go gracefully into the night. Go the way of Europe, while economies in China and India and South Korea prop up the world economy. But I don't think we're capable of that. I think we fear too much and there is too much of us and them between us and them to let that happen.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Wed Oct 22, 2014 11:04 am

It took two world wars and tens of millions of deaths for Europe to "Go the way of Europe" and being rebuilt and propped up by an economic powerhouse that had a strategic need to keep them as a speedbump against the efforts of hegemony by another economic powerhouse bent on world domination.

If America slides downhill, there will be no reason for anyone to step in and help us. Even our allies will smell blood in the water, make the appropriate noises, and take advantage.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Wed Oct 22, 2014 11:20 am

Isgrimnur wrote:It took two world wars and tens of millions of deaths for Europe to "Go the way of Europe" and being rebuilt and propped up by an economic powerhouse that had a strategic need to keep them as a speedbump against the efforts of hegemony by another economic powerhouse bent on world domination.

If America slides downhill, there will be no reason for anyone to step in and help us. Even our allies will smell blood in the water, make the appropriate noises, and take advantage.

I think it's possible to go the way of Europe without the wars, or so I hope because if it's not then it's not America I fear for so much as the coming generations of my family.

Or maybe we'll get those nanobots and will be good.

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Wed Oct 22, 2014 1:21 pm

I was going to say "apathy" last night when I saw this post, but I couldn't be bothered.

Jeff V · Post by **Jeff V** » Wed Oct 22, 2014 1:33 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote:
Carpet_pissr wrote:Death panels.
Gay Marriage will do us in long before death panels.

You are both wrong. Nekkid boobies on TV will eventually result in all of the puritanical pundits to spontaneously combust, opening the door for the Taliban to say "told you so!" as they infiltrate our media and begin their subversive campaign.

Moliere · Post by **Moliere** » Wed Oct 22, 2014 1:39 pm

coopasonic wrote:I was going to say "apathy" last night when I saw this post, but I couldn't be bothered.

I was going to say "ignorance", but I'm not so sure anymore.

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Wed Oct 22, 2014 1:40 pm

Jeff V wrote:
LawBeefaroni wrote:
Carpet_pissr wrote:Death panels.
Gay Marriage will do us in long before death panels.
You are both wrong. Nekkid boobies on TV will eventually result in all of the puritanical pundits to spontaneously combust, opening the door for the Taliban to say "told you so!" as they infiltrate our media and begin their subversive campaign.

Damn you Time Warner (parent of HBO and Cinemax)!

Jeff V · Post by **Jeff V** » Wed Oct 22, 2014 1:44 pm

coopasonic wrote:
Jeff V wrote:
LawBeefaroni wrote:
Carpet_pissr wrote:Death panels.
Gay Marriage will do us in long before death panels.
You are both wrong. Nekkid boobies on TV will eventually result in all of the puritanical pundits to spontaneously combust, opening the door for the Taliban to say "told you so!" as they infiltrate our media and begin their subversive campaign.
Damn you Time Warner (parent of HBO and Cinemax)!

Oh, those puritans are cheap bastards and never pay for premium channels, so boobies have roamed freely on such channels since the 80's. It's those that appear on broadcast TV that seem to be the most insidious.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Wed Oct 22, 2014 2:03 pm

Moliere wrote:
coopasonic wrote:I was going to say "apathy" last night when I saw this post, but I couldn't be bothered.
I was going to say "ignorance", but I'm not so sure anymore.

All I can be certain of is that I don't know, and don't care.

Brian · Post by **Brian** » Wed Oct 22, 2014 2:26 pm

Blackhawk wrote:
Moliere wrote:
coopasonic wrote:I was going to say "apathy" last night when I saw this post, but I couldn't be bothered.
I was going to say "ignorance", but I'm not so sure anymore.
All I can be certain of is that I don't know, and don't care.

Put this man in cell #1, and give him a drink.

What do you drink?

I don't care.

dbt1949 · Post by **dbt1949** » Wed Oct 22, 2014 3:07 pm

britney spears

ezmacncheese · Post by **ezmacncheese** » Wed Oct 22, 2014 6:54 pm

1) Cyber Crime

2) WMD Proliferation

3) Environmental Degradation

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Wed Oct 22, 2014 7:11 pm

School lunch programs.

cheeba · Post by **cheeba** » Thu Oct 23, 2014 12:03 am

Sugar.

No, honestly.

Carpet_pissr · Post by **Carpet_pissr** » Thu Oct 23, 2014 1:19 pm

cheeba wrote:Sugar.

No, honestly.

Hmm, I can vote for that. Good one.