ISIS

Moliere · Post by **Moliere** » Fri Feb 27, 2015 5:57 pm

hepcat wrote:
Moliere wrote:
hepcat wrote:True that.
Showing that it's the cool thing to do? This just seems like an attempt to avoid criticizing them.
What makes you think that?

Posting a link to other people that have destroyed historical documents without comment makes it appear like it's a normal thing to do.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Fri Feb 27, 2015 5:58 pm

The comment was "true that" in response to someone saying how barbaric an act it was.

Considering that there are entries on that list that were committed by followers of Islam, I'm not sure how you jumped to the conclusion that I'm excusing them.

Kurth · Post by **Kurth** » Fri Feb 27, 2015 7:13 pm

hepcat wrote:The comment was "true that" in response to someone saying how barbaric an act it was.

Considering that there are entries on that list that were committed by followers of Islam, I'm not sure how you jumped to the conclusion that I'm excusing them.

hepcat, I get the genuine and well-placed desire to make sure that all Muslims are not being tarred by the acts of ISIS and the other radical Islamists. That said, I think you are taking it to extremes.

In response to news that ISIS is destroying historic relics, and a comment that such behavior belies an insecurity in their faith, what is the point of posting a link to a laundry list of similarly horrible actions by others? I don't think that anyone said ISIS cornered the market on this.

And I don't think it's a fair reading of the original comment by Kraken ("Honestly, a faith that is threatened by 12,000-year-old artifacts is awfully insecure.") to infer that the comment is directed to Islam generally and not to the faith of ISIS in particular.

Again, I understand you want to avoid a war on Islam (as do I), but it almost seems like you want to white-wash reality to remove all references to Islam when discussing ISIS. I think that's unproductive and intellectually dishonest.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Fri Feb 27, 2015 7:25 pm

Again I ask, why do you believe I was trying to defend these acts of barbarism?

I posted a reply to Kraken that included a link to the destruction of historical texts, something I personally feel is even more egregious than destroying works of art. I even noted I agreed with him by commenting "true that".

But I'm now twice accused of trying to say what ISIS has done isn't that bad.

And as I pointed out, the list of those historical texts that have been lost to similar acts of barbarism includes more than one instance that was committed by Muslims. So I'm hard pressed to understand why you believe it's just a list of destructive acts "by others"?

I understand that the three of us haven't agreed on things in the past. But please do try to keep at least a modicum of objectivity. You're trying to find something that just isn't there. Sometimes a rose is just a rose...and true that just means true that.

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Fri Feb 27, 2015 7:27 pm

Kurth wrote:
And I don't think it's a fair reading of the original comment by Kraken ("Honestly, a faith that is threatened by 12,000-year-old artifacts is awfully insecure.") to infer that the comment is directed to Islam generally and not to the faith of ISIS in particular.

Yeah, I specifically meant the people who are actually doing the burning and destruction.

I can even understand* book burning. Books contain specific words that communicate directly with readers; they are dangerous if you believe that only one book is true and necessary. But ancient statues and works of art? I suppose the idea is to destroy idols and obliterate all memory of false gods. That's hardcore.

*understanding != condoning.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Fri Feb 27, 2015 8:45 pm

Obeying God's will in ways outsiders can't fathom is the fanatic's biggest kick.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Fri Feb 27, 2015 8:49 pm

I remember when the Taliban destroyed the Buddhas of Bamiyan. God, what a waste.

I wish they'd at least allow them to just be removed from their sight. But I guess extremists aren't exactly reasonable.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Fri Feb 27, 2015 8:53 pm

There's even a thread for that.

Combustible Lemur · Post by **Combustible Lemur** » Fri Feb 27, 2015 10:16 pm

I don't really want to Wade into this conversation but Fwiw an old acquaintance just posted on Facebook "A tea party response to coexist bumper stickers". Without watching the video, the comment section was sickening with Christian holy war bullshit.
As heated as some of the discussions here get,i find even our wariest warhawks are not representative of a broader segment of ignoramuses alive and well in out population. There is a chunk of people who equate ISIS with all of Islam. I feel that while acknowledging ISIS is fully Islamic, making damn sure the the masses don't decide that the billions of peace loving Muslims are labelled The Enemy is equally if not more important. In the same day an Aussie military strategist embedded for a time among Muslim counter terrorist forces made the same note on the radio.

We as a people can't risk becoming what we abhore.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Fri Feb 27, 2015 10:34 pm

Combustible Lemur wrote:I don't really want to Wade into this conversation

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Fri Feb 27, 2015 10:35 pm

I was thinking Wade Boggs.

Moliere · Post by **Moliere** » Mon Mar 02, 2015 2:38 pm

How ISIS Is Using Marriage as a Trap

On the female recruitment side, women like Umm Layth (Aqsa Mahmood) use Twitter accounts solely dedicated to jihadi matchmaking. They promise the girls a wonderful life and say all of their needs will be taken care of. They are promised a wonderful husband and a free house with top-of-the-line appliances, such as a fridge, microwave and even a milkshake machine. Most importantly, they are told that their husband will care for them and that if he dies, she will instantly be transformed into a hero -- the wife of a martyr. ISIS has even reportedly established a marriage bureau in Raqqa, Syria to register potential spouses.

The female recruiters are adept at lowering the girls' guard and putting them at ease. Through a series of online interactions, the recruiters will establish rapport, build trust and create an environment of secrecy and exclusion of other friends and family members.

Women and very young girls have been disappearing throughout Europe, North America and Australia following the siren's call by women such as Umm Ubaydah and Umm Haritha. Most recently, a 23-year-old woman from Edmonton, Canada was recruited online by a female recruiter when she tried to take a course about the Qur'an. Instead, the young woman's sister said she learned how to get to Raqqa.

Jeff V · Post by **Jeff V** » Mon Mar 02, 2015 3:12 pm

I heard Twitter is suspending all ISIS-related accounts after that fun bunch decided to bite the hand that Tweets them by putting the Twitter founder and his staff on their to-die list.

Kurth · Post by **Kurth** » Mon Mar 02, 2015 3:22 pm

Jeff V wrote:I heard Twitter is suspending all ISIS-related accounts after that fun bunch decided to bite the hand that Tweets them by putting the Twitter founder and his staff on their to-die list.

Weren't they already doing this, though? I thought that was why ISIS threatened them with the death stick in the first place.

Kasey Chang · Post by **Kasey Chang** » Tue Mar 03, 2015 6:02 pm

Dakota Johnson's "Join ISIS" parody apparently has a joke detail few people will understand

According to the writers, the "Arabic" on the pickup actually says "I love cats".

Moliere · Post by **Moliere** » Wed Mar 04, 2015 6:22 pm

Sam Harris and Graeme Wood (the author of the original Atlantic article) discuss the Islamic State

Wood: I’m pleased to see that it has baffled a lot of people. Much of the initial wave of reaction has come from people who desperately wanted it to say one thing or another, and who reacted by assuming that it fell into their predetermined classifications of pieces about politics, Islam, or terrorism. It is gratifying to write a story so resistant to classification that people have to pretend it says things it doesn’t just so that it fits in their mental categories.

Many enemies of Islam, and I consider you one of them even though I exempt you from this charge of misreading, have wanted to read the story as claiming that Islam is responsible for terror, or that ISIS is Islam. In fact it denies these claims explicitly and has a long section about literalist Muslim objections to ISIS. Many Muslims have, ironically, read the piece in exactly the same way, assuming it blames Islam for ISIS. That misreading, I think, is because it’s easier to argue against the anti-Islam point of view than to reckon with the possibility that Islam contains multitudes, like other religions, and that some of them are very, very nasty indeed, even though they share the same texts as the not-nasty ones. People are also frustrated by the fact that the piece discusses religion but has no time for talk of a “clash of civilizations,” and in fact argues that one of our main policy goals should be to avoid this. Finally, some readers are desperate to see my article as a portrayal of Muslims as savages, and cannot process that I am actually arguing something like the opposite, and specifically about ISIS. Its members aren’t brainless brutes who cannot think—that’s the Orientalist view, and ironically it’s the view that a lot of people who would call themselves anti-Orientalists take when reading the piece. ISIS members are often highly sophisticated people, just as capable of intelligent critical thought as anyone else. They are simply evil.

A long discussion, but worth the read if you're interested in the subject.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Wed Mar 04, 2015 7:13 pm

ISIS: Brought to you by Jennifer Aniston and Aveeno. Aveeno for younger skin.

https://musictechpolicy.wordpress.com/2 ... d-youtube/

Moliere · Post by **Moliere** » Thu Mar 05, 2015 12:56 pm

Smorgasbord of Hate: The Islamic State Finds Fresh Recruits in Sweden’s Angry Young Men

Ahmed does look vaguely like a fighter away from the front lines, with a full beard (no mustache) under a camouflage cap and a short, solid frame clad in a thick jacket to combat the approaching winter. But his facial hair is neatly trimmed, he smiles amiably, and he keeps a pack of quintessentially Scandinavian snus lodged behind his upper lip as he speaks.

He's back in Sweden after a year and a half of fighting in Syria. Despite the comforts of his current surroundings, he's eager to return and seek his death in a violent armed struggle against those he sees as enemies of his religion.

"A martyr is the best thing to be in Islam. It is an honor," he says calmly, adding that in a family of several children born to strictly religious Middle East-born parents, it was an aspiration. "I always thought about jihad. I didn't know there were Muslims who didn't want that."

Muslim leaders across the world condemn the Islamic State and its violent excesses, but Ahmed's interpretation of Islam is anything but peaceful. Instead, he believes that all believers should make jihad to bring about the end of days prophesied in Islamic eschatology. "Now, my biggest intention is to have Allah satisfied," he declares. "His word is highest, and the kuffar's [unbelievers'] is lowest."

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Thu Mar 05, 2015 1:41 pm

I wonder how many join ISIS, only to realize later that the romanticized version of the conflict they've been fed isn't the reality. I hope it's at least a few.

Moliere · Post by **Moliere** » Thu Mar 05, 2015 1:56 pm

On the surface it doesn't seem like a bad thing if all the crazies leave for ISIS. Let's get them all together in one place. The problem is when they go back to their home country with new skills, a network of crazy friends, and PTSD.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Thu Mar 05, 2015 4:10 pm

I believe more than a few nations are putting measures in place to prosecute those who try to come back after serving in extremist groups. NPR had a piece about a father in either Sweden or Denmark who was suing the government for arresting his son after he returned from fighting in Syria.

Carpet_pissr · Post by **Carpet_pissr** » Thu Mar 05, 2015 4:24 pm

Yeah, I think that is mostly a one way trip, given the doomsday cultism involved.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Thu Mar 05, 2015 4:56 pm

hepcat wrote:I believe more than a few nations are putting measures in place to prosecute those who try to come back after serving in extremist groups. NPR had a piece about a father in either Sweden or Denmark who was suing the government for arresting his son after he returned from fighting in Syria.

UK just arrested someone who was *leaving* the UK to join ISIS.

SlapBone · Post by **SlapBone** » Fri Mar 06, 2015 3:52 pm

GreenGoo wrote:
hepcat wrote:I believe more than a few nations are putting measures in place to prosecute those who try to come back after serving in extremist groups. NPR had a piece about a father in either Sweden or Denmark who was suing the government for arresting his son after he returned from fighting in Syria.
UK just arrested someone who was *leaving* the UK to join ISIS.

Would you like to join ISIS? Just email wearereallyISIS AT mi6.uk.gov. We have people standing by at the airport ready to help you to your destination.

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Sat Mar 07, 2015 6:43 pm

Boko Haram falls into lineand pledges allegiance to ISIS. So what?

The Daily Beast added that a connection between the two groups might have ramifications in the war authorization bill President Barack Obama has submitted to Congress, which seeks authority for military action against IS "and associated forces" – which could potentially authorize US troops to act against Boko Haram in Africa.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Sun Mar 08, 2015 12:28 pm

Some analysts were suggesting that with some setbacks for Boko lately, they might be on their last legs, and this is a way to attract more fighters and/or pull resources from ISIS in support. I have no idea what it actually means. My first thought was "who cares" but then I don't understand how the 2 groups are related other than both being savages.

Kasey Chang · Post by **Kasey Chang** » Sun Mar 08, 2015 2:44 pm

It seems like ISIS was doing all the things they can to piss off everybody neutral. Bulldozing 2 (soon to be 3) separate Iraqi ancient cities because they promote false Gods... Sheesh. Wonder which book did they steal that from? They're basically doing a "cultural revolution" (yes, thinking Chairman Mao) and purges and all that.

Iran is trying to act neutral, but it's supplying a ton of arms to the Iraqi military to be used against ISIS. I think ISIS is not stupid enough to openly challenge Iran, but sooner or later Iran will have to act... by committing its own military or Revolutionary Guard, if only to gain influence in Iraq. The problem is how will US feel about Iranian troops in Iraq, even if it's to fight ISIS.

Carpet_pissr · Post by **Carpet_pissr** » Mon Mar 09, 2015 10:02 am

Iran is already fighting ISIS. Not the regular troops, but the higher level green beret types, and even generals involved.

Pyperkub · Post by **Pyperkub** » Mon Mar 09, 2015 12:15 pm

hepcat wrote:I wonder how many join ISIS, only to realize later that the romanticized version of the conflict they've been fed isn't the reality. I hope it's at least a few.

It appears to be more than a few. Of course, once you join, do you really think you can actually leave?

“The key challenge facing ISIS right now is more internal than external,” she said, using another term for the group. “We’re seeing basically a failure of the central tenet of ISIS ideology, which is to unify people of different origins under the caliphate. This is not working on the ground. It is making them less effective in governing and less effective in military operations.”

Most striking are the growing signs of friction between the foreigners lured by its state-building experiment and local recruits, who have grown resentful of the preferential treatment meted out to the expatriates, including higher salaries and better living conditions.

I found this graphic of where the foreign fighters are coming from interesting as well:

Increasingly, the Islamic State is recruiting fighters among children and teens who remain more vulnerable than older adults to the group’s propaganda, said a businessman living in Raqqa who last week paid condolences to family friends whose 15-year-old son had been killed on the front line.

The parents didn’t know he had gone to fight and learned of his death from a neighbor just days after he had disappeared from home, recalled the businessman, who, like others interviewed, spoke on the condition of anonymity because he fears for his safety.

Intensified efforts to persuade Syrians to go to the front lines in Iraq include offers of up to $800 a month in salary, according to Ahmed Mhidi, who arrived in Turkey two weeks ago from the Syrian city of Deir al-Zour and is setting up an opposition group called DZGraph. The offer has won few takers, he said.

The Islamic State “was never popular, but people supported them because they were scared or they needed money,” he said. “Now people want nothing to do with them, and if the Islamic State puts pressure on them, they just flee.”

Defiant · Post by **Defiant** » Thu Mar 12, 2015 3:17 am

http://www.theatlantic.com/video/index/ ... interview/

Moliere · Post by **Moliere** » Tue May 05, 2015 8:33 pm

Meet the Iraqi Jon Stewart Who Ridicules the Islamic State for a Living

Throughout the first season of the show, Ahmad explicitly mocked the religious clerics and politicians who incite sectarianism in Iraq. His sarcastic wit and sexual innuendoes were revolutionary. "We were the first in Iraq to criticize the government and religious leaders with satire," Ahmad declared proudly.

The content remained neutral and openly lampooned all of the different militias and religious extremists that afflict Iraq. A novelty for Iraqi television, where the powerful control the news and the agenda is dictated through pro Sunni, Shia or Christian channels. "Unfortunately in Iraq we do not have independent or moderate media that give messages in the truthful way," said Hussam.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Thu May 28, 2015 4:53 pm

Are you worried about ISIS/ISIL? You don't HAVE to worry if you'd only put Donald Trump in the damn White House.

Van Susteren asked him exactly what that would be. Trump said, “I do know what to do and I would know how to bring ISIS to the table or, beyond that, defeat ISIS very quickly.”

He then added, “And I’m not gonna tell you what it is tonight.”

Carpet_pissr · Post by **Carpet_pissr** » Thu May 28, 2015 5:15 pm

hepcat wrote:Trump said, “I do know what to do and I would know how to bring ISIS to the table

I can only assume his strategy revolves around using his big fat head as bait, and that the head-chopping terrorists would not be able to resist the opportunity to take a whack.

Moliere · Post by **Moliere** » Thu May 28, 2015 6:05 pm

I think ISIS has a different understanding of the phrase "You're fired" than Trump.

Pyperkub · Post by **Pyperkub** » Thu May 28, 2015 6:22 pm

hepcat wrote:Are you worried about ISIS/ISIL? You don't HAVE to worry if you'd only put Donald Trump in the damn White House.

Van Susteren asked him exactly what that would be. Trump said, “I do know what to do and I would know how to bring ISIS to the table or, beyond that, defeat ISIS very quickly.”

He then added, “And I’m not gonna tell you what it is tonight.”

This sounds like Nixon and Vietnam. Nixon's ultimate plan was to make North Vietnam think he was so absolutely crazy that he would nuke them and they would then surrender.

That worked superbly.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Fri May 29, 2015 7:06 am

Moliere wrote:I think ISIS has a different understanding of the phrase "You're fired" than Trump.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Fri Jun 05, 2015 5:37 pm

OPSEC isn't the Islamic State group's strong suit.

Airmen at Hurlburt Field, Florida, used social media posts by the insurgent group to track the location of an Islamic State group headquarters building. Twenty-two hours later, three joint direct attack munitions destroyed the target, said Gen. Hawk Carlisle, commander of Air Combat Command, at a June 1 speech in Arlington, Virginia.

"The [airmen are] combing through social media and they see some moron standing at this command," Carlisle said at the speech, which was sponsored by the Air Force Association. "And in some social media, open forum, bragging about command and control capabilities for Da'esh, ISIL, And these guys go 'ah, we got an in.'

"So they do some work, long story short, about 22 hours later through that very building, three JDAMS take that entire building out. Through social media. It was a post on social media. Bombs on target in 22 hours.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Sat Jun 06, 2015 1:58 pm

Right, but this is the first time we've heard of this kind of mistake, whereas we've heard of many instances of this on the allied side. Hell, we've got social media warning posters by all the elevators in my building.

OPSEC might not be ISIS' strong suit, but they seem to be doing it better than us, especially with all the "credit" given to them about being media savvy.

Still, I'm glad they slipped up and the building kersploded.

Max Peck · Post by **Max Peck** » Sat Jun 06, 2015 7:47 pm

So, in a speech where he discloses an effective intelligence technique (likely rendering it useless in the future), a general mocks the enemy's OPSEC. And people wonder why I fracking hate officers...

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Sun Jun 07, 2015 12:47 am

Max Peck wrote:So, in a speech where he discloses an effective intelligence technique (likely rendering it useless in the future), a general mocks the enemy's OPSEC. And people wonder why I fracking hate officers...

Reminds me a little of the congressman that disclosed that Japanese depth charges were going off shallower than our subs could dive, allowing us to often evade them.

He cost many good men their lives. Thankfully this one shouldn't be as damaging.