Go Bernie!

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Thu Aug 06, 2015 12:33 pm

Isgrimnur wrote:
LawBeefaroni wrote: Apparently it's been determined that the thing keeping the 99% down is unpaid/underpaid internships.
You've seriously got your snark dialed to 11 today. Is it this issue, or are you just having a bad day?

He finally landed that R&P internship with Rip.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Thu Aug 06, 2015 12:36 pm

Speaking of which, where is he with my daily Hillary Clinton looks at something photo!?!

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Thu Aug 06, 2015 12:38 pm

I had to intern 240 hours for my license and it was indeed a giant suck. The DOL has a FAQ:

The following six criteria must be applied when making this determination:
The internship, even though it includes actual operation of the facilities of the employer, is similar to training which would be given in an educational environment;
The internship experience is for the benefit of the intern;
The intern does not displace regular employees, but works under close supervision of existing staff;
The employer that provides the training derives no immediate advantage from the activities of the intern; and on occasion its operations may actually be impeded;
The intern is not necessarily entitled to a job at the conclusion of the internship; and
The employer and the intern understand that the intern is not entitled to wages for the time spent in the internship.

Fortunately they accepted my undergraduate 6 credit internship (225 hours) as time served, but I have to say that asking someone to work 200+ hours unpaid is terrible. I understand why they do it, but between the clothes, the gas money and whatever other expenditures were involved, free internships are not cheap.

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Thu Aug 06, 2015 12:40 pm

El Guapo wrote:
Isgrimnur wrote:
LawBeefaroni wrote: Apparently it's been determined that the thing keeping the 99% down is unpaid/underpaid internships.
You've seriously got your snark dialed to 11 today. Is it this issue, or are you just having a bad day?
He finally landed that R&P internship with Rip.

He doesn't officially start until Monday, waiting on his check to clear, I charge $12/hr.

Which reminds me I need to pick-up another box of cigars......

Post by **ImLawBoy** » Thu Aug 06, 2015 12:41 pm

Isgrimnur wrote:
LawBeefaroni wrote: Apparently it's been determined that the thing keeping the 99% down is unpaid/underpaid internships.
You've seriously got your snark dialed to 11 today. Is it this issue, or are you just having a bad day?

I thought he was just giving back in kind after this:

Isgrimnur wrote:
LawBeefaroni wrote:The rise of the internship is related directly to their desire to not take a job until they get the perfect position.
[citation needed]

The idea that the young are at fault for there not being enough jobs for them seems ludicrous. But I'm sure you have evidence that all the power in the employment market lies with the 16-24 entrants.

Although I admit I wasn't reading that closely and he might have started it earlier.

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Thu Aug 06, 2015 12:44 pm

hepcat wrote:Speaking of which, where is he with my daily Hillary Clinton looks at something photo!?!

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Thu Aug 06, 2015 12:45 pm

I do loves me my Rip.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Thu Aug 06, 2015 12:47 pm

Isgrimnur wrote:
LawBeefaroni wrote: Apparently it's been determined that the thing keeping the 99% down is unpaid/underpaid internships.
You've seriously got your snark dialed to 11 today. Is it this issue, or are you just having a bad day?

Neither, really. Sometimes I'm just in a hurry.

It was mentioned earlier in the thread that un/derpaid internship were a complaint of Occupy. I just don't get how internships are an issue.

And if I have any contempt, it's for the fact that the news cycle is making a big deal out of the fact that his interns are paid below his proposed minimum wage. No shit. They're interns. Everyone knows that. The news sources know that.

The Week magazine wrote:Bernie Sanders wants to mandate a $15 minimum wage — but he only pays his interns $12

The Week Editorial Internship
Publication Type: Content Website
Publication Name: The Week
Location: New York, NY
Pay: $8/hour

Daily Caller wrote:Bernie Sanders Demands $15 Per Hour Minimum Wage, Pays His Own Interns $12 PER HOUR

This summer I worked as an intern for The Daily Caller, a 24-hour news website based out of
Washington, D.C.
...
We were told on the first day that because the internship was unpaid, no one was going to be breathing down our backs forcing us to do work.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Thu Aug 06, 2015 12:49 pm

ImLawBoy wrote:
Isgrimnur wrote:
LawBeefaroni wrote: Apparently it's been determined that the thing keeping the 99% down is unpaid/underpaid internships.
You've seriously got your snark dialed to 11 today. Is it this issue, or are you just having a bad day?
I thought he was just giving back in kind after this:
Isgrimnur wrote:
LawBeefaroni wrote:The rise of the internship is related directly to their desire to not take a job until they get the perfect position.
[citation needed]

The idea that the young are at fault for there not being enough jobs for them seems ludicrous. But I'm sure you have evidence that all the power in the employment market lies with the 16-24 entrants.
Although I admit I wasn't reading that closely and he might have started it earlier.

I did catch that but tried to respond neutrally with a citation.

Was my snark the line about the 99%?

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Thu Aug 06, 2015 12:50 pm

It was a complaint, not the principle one. And I can certainly understand the idea that making a big deal out of his intern's pay versus what he is stumping for is a distraction at best. As it's been said, he's better than the majority of his colleagues. The DOL should absolutely be investigating and handling intern abuses. It is their job, after all. But trying to turn it into a red meat issue is poushing things just a bit.

Zarathud · Post by **Zarathud** » Thu Aug 06, 2015 7:56 pm

I never worked for free until law school when I worked at a tax clinic and for a Federal Judge. But that was a different time when the market was good and the experience relevant to my education.

Today, I have seen too many kids in and out of college working at a cycle of unpaid internships desperate to get their foot in the door. The employers now take advantage of their desperation and turn what could be real work experience into a low end job. Millennials have been told they can achieve by punching things off their list, and they do it hoping to get the promised results. It's not really their fault the world doesn't work that way anymore. Hopefully they wise up and learn to prove why their work profitability justifies a significant raise (as I did after college and need to do again).

However, getting an entry level job often means you can't or won't work your way up anymore. There is no loyalty to employees; they're often a commodity management thinks they can do without. I have counseled several Millennials how to interview better but it doesn't matter -- they repeatedly get hired and laid off 3-6 months later because they're still "the disposable new guy" once there's any business troubles. After a while, it makes no sense not to hold out for a job where you can get past the layoff death spiral.

This whole "living wage" is a red herring. The problem isn't pay but mobility and security. The gap is really that people with money or connections can get a job and keep it. Everyone else is disposable. But it's easy to mandate or promise a higher wage than work on a better long-term culture for business management. Everyone in Congress is by definition well-connected, no matter how much money they make--including Bernie!--so they're not going to see it. You're definitely unable to see it if you focus on whether Bernie pays $13 or $15 per hour.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Sun Aug 09, 2015 2:48 pm

Someone care to explain why #BlackLivesMatter are protesting Sanders? What did I miss? How many times does it have to happen before it's a thing?

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-el ... ch-n406546

Defiant · Post by **Defiant** » Sun Aug 09, 2015 3:29 pm

I think part of it might have to do with Bernie's supporters being almost completely white liberals.

Also, from your article:

In Seattle, two women approached the podium just as Sanders began addressing the crowd of several thousand, and demanded the microphone. Sanders stepped aside, and one woman got into an argument with an organizer, shouting "We are angry!"

After being given the microphone, and after the crowd booed,

The hell?

He sounds like an easy mark.

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Sun Aug 09, 2015 3:57 pm

Relinquishing the mic as a gesture of support was a mistake. They abused the hospitality and engendered ill-will toward their cause among the thousands who had turned out to hear Sanders. Worse, having now disrupted him twice encourages the BlackLives people to repeat the stunt at other appearances. No winners in that game.

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Sun Aug 09, 2015 4:55 pm

Kraken wrote:Relinquishing the mic as a gesture of support was a mistake. They abused the hospitality and engendered ill-will toward their cause among the thousands who had turned out to hear Sanders. Worse, having now disrupted him twice encourages the BlackLives people to repeat the stunt at other appearances. No winners in that game.

Should have listened to Cosby on that one.

Moliere · Post by **Moliere** » Tue Aug 11, 2015 10:52 am

Kraken wrote:Relinquishing the mic as a gesture of support was a mistake. They abused the hospitality and engendered ill-will toward their cause among the thousands who had turned out to hear Sanders. Worse, having now disrupted him twice encourages the BlackLives people to repeat the stunt at other appearances. No winners in that game.

Don't worry, he has a plan to solve all the problems.

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Thu Aug 13, 2015 1:48 am

A recent 3-way poll put Sanders out front in NH, followed by Clinton and Biden. That supports my hunch that Biden would siphon more support from Clinton than from Sanders. If she got Biden's 9% she would have just squeaked past Sanders.

It won't surprise me if Bernie takes VT's next-door neighbor even in a 2-way contest. He's put in a lot of effort there and Clinton lacks the up-close-and-personal skills that play well in NH.

Chaz · Post by **Chaz** » Thu Aug 13, 2015 6:06 am

I'm registered as an independent in NH, so I can vote in either primary. I was entertaining the notion of voting on the Republican ballot, either in favor of the least crazy candidate that I could live with in the general, or the most crazy (Trump) to try and lock up a Democrat win in the general. Now I'm actually thinking I might want to vote on the Dem ballot and try and get Bernie in. He's not perfect, but he's the kind of candidate I've been hoping to see for a while.

Drazzil · Post by **Drazzil** » Sat Aug 15, 2015 1:35 am

LordMortis wrote:Someone care to explain why #BlackLivesMatter are protesting Sanders? What did I miss? How many times does it have to happen before it's a thing?

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-el ... ch-n406546

Fuck those guys, seriously. Bunch of no class asshats who are not doing anything to endear themselves to the very people whose help they need.

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Sat Aug 15, 2015 2:07 am

As long as this came up again...I read that the two women who disrupted him the second time were not actually affiliated with BLM; however, I only see dicey sources reporting that, so maybe it's a smear. Unstructured movements are prone to that.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Sat Aug 15, 2015 9:42 am

Kraken wrote:As long as this came up again...I read that the two women who disrupted him the second time were not actually affiliated with BLM; however, I only see dicey sources reporting that, so maybe it's a smear. Unstructured movements are prone to that.

I read that about one of the women. I thought the source was interesting because it pointed to her FB page and that page was not flattering but the source also seemed like propaganda from a blind supporter, so I didn't come back here with it... again even if the link to her FB page was there.

But even more interesting to me is that I'm seeing tons of news comments and FB responses that have moved to an expression of "Oh, Bernie isn't terrible but I can't stand the people who would vote for him and I can't deal with that" and then nothing about more. I'm trying to figure that out. Now I get there are a lot of propagandists out there singing Bernie praises but I see no more and no less than for Hillary or Rand Paul. To me, Bernie doesn't seem like the Left's equivalent of Palin or Cruz or anything. The other big response I'm reading (coming after the BLM stuff from Hillary supporting camp) is that Bernie really does only represent young white people and again no details on why this true. I'm interested in the objections but I hate bumper sticker political activism.

But then, maybe I've been fully converted and brainwashed into progressive liberalism with all of its traps when I wasn't paying attention.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Sat Aug 15, 2015 11:26 am

While other candidates and the sitting president are evolving...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJaW32ZTyKE

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Sat Aug 15, 2015 1:17 pm

LordMortis wrote:While other candidates and the sitting president are evolving...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJaW32ZTyKE

Bernie...Bernie never changes.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Sat Aug 15, 2015 2:06 pm

Nope. He doesn't

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iM-tlpMHpdo

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Mon Aug 17, 2015 3:58 pm

LordMortis wrote:Nope. He doesn't

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iM-tlpMHpdo

I was thoroughly amused by the weird-looking guy over Sanders' shoulder smiling through his rant.

Anyway, I wasn't terribly impressed by Sanders here. The rant was fairly generic, and your question for the Chairman of the Federal Reserve is seriously "do you care about working class people?" What do you expect, that he'll say "Nah, fuck 'em"?

Drazzil · Post by **Drazzil** » Fri Aug 28, 2015 5:51 pm

Rip wrote:
hepcat wrote:Speaking of which, where is he with my daily Hillary Clinton looks at something photo!?!

God Hillary has gotten old.

Moliere · Post by **Moliere** » Fri Aug 28, 2015 6:21 pm

Drazzil wrote:God Hillary has gotten old.

Because guys never age?

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Fri Aug 28, 2015 6:31 pm

Moliere wrote:
Drazzil wrote:God Hillary has gotten old.
Because guys never age?

I think it's because female cultural icons are supposed to "have work done" to hide aging. All the worked-over celebrities warp our idea of what an old woman in the public eye should look like.

Carpet_pissr · Post by **Carpet_pissr** » Sat Aug 29, 2015 7:55 am

Personally I prefer seeing the wrinkles rather than the freak show that usually is the result of older celebs with too much plastic surgery.

Alefroth · Post by **Alefroth** » Sat Aug 29, 2015 1:47 pm

Drazzil wrote:
Rip wrote:
hepcat wrote:Speaking of which, where is he with my daily Hillary Clinton looks at something photo!?!

God Hillary has gotten old.

How did that even happen?

Defiant · Post by **Defiant** » Sat Aug 29, 2015 7:03 pm

Just wait, it'll happen to you.

(While there's a discussion to be had about age and the presidency, if it's going to come down to how a candidate looks - and only, apparently, one of the candidates - that's pretty damned petty stuff.)

hitbyambulance · Post by **hitbyambulance** » Sat Aug 29, 2015 8:36 pm

Defiant wrote:Just wait, it'll happen to you.

..unless it doesn't..

Defiant · Post by **Defiant** » Sat Aug 29, 2015 9:27 pm

hitbyambulance wrote:
Defiant wrote:Just wait, it'll happen to you.
..unless it doesn't..

Well, there is that morbid alternative.

hitbyambulance · Post by **hitbyambulance** » Sat Aug 29, 2015 10:29 pm

Defiant wrote:
hitbyambulance wrote:
Defiant wrote:Just wait, it'll happen to you.
..unless it doesn't..
Well, there is that morbid alternative.

life is ironic that way. one could just step out into the street one day without a care in the world, finally having accepted the inevitability of aging, going "i'm going to grow old on my own terms!" and BAMKAPOW!

Pyperkub · Post by **Pyperkub** » Sat Aug 29, 2015 11:33 pm

Defiant wrote:Just wait, it'll happen to you.

(While there's a discussion to be had about age and the presidency, if it's going to come down to how a candidate looks - and only, apparently, one of the candidates - that's pretty damned petty stuff.)

One of the reasons we love Rip so much

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Sat Aug 29, 2015 11:37 pm

Pyperkub wrote:
Defiant wrote:Just wait, it'll happen to you.

(While there's a discussion to be had about age and the presidency, if it's going to come down to how a candidate looks - and only, apparently, one of the candidates - that's pretty damned petty stuff.)
One of the reasons we love Rip so much

Max Peck · Post by **Max Peck** » Sun Aug 30, 2015 12:14 pm

hitbyambulance wrote:
Defiant wrote:
hitbyambulance wrote:
Defiant wrote:Just wait, it'll happen to you.
..unless it doesn't..
Well, there is that morbid alternative.
life is ironic that way. one could just step out into the street one day without a care in the world, finally having accepted the inevitability of aging, going "i'm going to grow old on my own terms!" and BAMKAPOW!

Moar derail!

Less off topic -- Bernie Sanders, the other not-a-spring-chicken:

Defiant · Post by **Defiant** » Sun Aug 30, 2015 4:58 pm

FYI, there are at least three other candidates besides Bernie that are older than Hillary.

Drazzil · Post by **Drazzil** » Mon Aug 31, 2015 11:53 am

Defiant wrote:FYI, there are at least three other candidates besides Bernie that are older than Hillary.

Bernie Saunders may be old, but Hillary is old.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Mon Aug 31, 2015 12:27 pm

How do you figure?