Go Bernie!

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Thu Jul 02, 2015 8:17 am

Ive hated every election since Clinton and this one will be no different.

Fireball · Post by **Fireball** » Thu Jul 02, 2015 10:06 am

Carpet_pissr wrote:
Fireball wrote:I'm for Hillary, but I'm glad Senator Sanders is running. He's a great Senator and a strong voice on the left. He'll make the primary better and more substantive.
I'd love to hear your reasoning if you don't mind sharing.

Sorry, just seeing this. Reasoning in what way? Why I'm for Hillary, or why I'm glad Senator Sanders is running?

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Thu Jul 02, 2015 10:08 am

I know he doesn't stand a chance, but I actually am rooting for Bernie.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Thu Jul 02, 2015 10:23 am

hepcat wrote:I know he doesn't stand a chance, but I actually am rooting for Bernie.

Do more than that. Vote for him in the primary.

Izzy says I don't have to caucus as a democrat so this will be the first time I ever vote in a primary. I'd caveat that with unless some serious shit comes out of Bernie's closet, but he's been outed as no good socialist who is ruining America since before Obamacare became law, since he attacked W for invading Iraq again, since he became rallying point Occupy Wallstreet, and they haven't ruined him yet.

Carpet_pissr · Post by **Carpet_pissr** » Thu Jul 02, 2015 10:24 am

Fireball wrote:
Carpet_pissr wrote:
Fireball wrote:I'm for Hillary, but I'm glad Senator Sanders is running. He's a great Senator and a strong voice on the left. He'll make the primary better and more substantive.
I'd love to hear your reasoning if you don't mind sharing.

Sorry, just seeing this. Reasoning in what way? Why I'm for Hillary, or why I'm glad Senator Sanders is running?

Heh, I forgot why

Reading it again, it seems like a self explanatory comment. Maybe I was wondering why you were for Hillary instead of Sanders.

On here at least, you seem to lean farther left than Hillary, which is a centrist IMO, and Sanders would seem like a more "pure" left play, if you will. He certainly has my interest on a number of issues.

Moliere · Post by **Moliere** » Thu Jul 02, 2015 10:25 am

Kraken wrote:10,000 in Wisconsin is the biggest crowd that any candidate has drawn in this cycle yet.

I can't imagine spending my time to attend one of these meetings. Besides paid participants why would you spend hours of your day holding a sign and cheering everything one of these candidates says? But then I don't go to church either.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Thu Jul 02, 2015 10:25 am

LordMortis wrote:
hepcat wrote:I know he doesn't stand a chance, but I actually am rooting for Bernie.
Do more than that. Vote for him in the primary.

Oh, I definitely will.

Exodor · Post by **Exodor** » Thu Jul 02, 2015 11:28 am

hepcat wrote:
LordMortis wrote:
hepcat wrote:I know he doesn't stand a chance, but I actually am rooting for Bernie.
Do more than that. Vote for him in the primary.

Oh, I definitely will.

Me too. I registered as a Democrat in 2008 so I could vote for Obama in the primary.

My only worry is that if Hillary somehow implodes and Bernie winds up the candidate by default that we'll wind up with whatever wingnut the Republicans nominate winning the general election.

I'd hate to have any responsibility for President Cruz. Or Trump.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Thu Jul 02, 2015 11:35 am

Oh, Sanders could beat a wingnut.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Tue Jul 07, 2015 7:18 am

Wouldn't it be both funny and Ironic if Bernie wins in no small part due in part facebook bumpersticerism.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/h-a-goodm ... 60226.html

Carpet_pissr · Post by **Carpet_pissr** » Tue Jul 07, 2015 11:18 am

I would like to believe that "Hillary Clinton is going lose," primarily because millions of voters longing for a truly progressive candidate will nominate Sanders", as it certainly describes why I would vote for him over Hillary, but alas, I think it's way too early, and her base is way too strong.

Would love to be proven wrong, though.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Tue Jul 07, 2015 12:46 pm

Sadly, I'm betting that will happen too. However, that's not going to stop me from joining Team Bernie until it does.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Tue Jul 07, 2015 12:52 pm

Carpet_pissr wrote:I would like to believe that "Hillary Clinton is going lose,"

Followed by Jeb Bush losing and I intend to do my part to see that happen... Or Harumph in defeat after trying really really hard.

hepcat wrote: that's not going to stop me from joining Team Bernie until it does.

So much this. So far, I have no more team if team Bernie goes away.

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Tue Jul 07, 2015 6:36 pm

Hillary's support is a mile wide and an inch deep. Remember Clinton Fatigue? People get tired of ceaseless accusations and refutations even when there's nothing substantial behind them. As her Cloak of Inevitability +1 unravels, it will be easier and easier to peel off those who are just plain sick of her bullshit. The more Sanders gets around to offer contrast, the more people can see that Clinton is just another insincere, packaged politician.

My hunch says that Hillary is destined to be a tragic figure. I don't know if that means Bernie will be the nominee or if it will be someone else...but the jockeying for #2 is important.

Pyperkub · Post by **Pyperkub** » Tue Jul 07, 2015 9:44 pm

Kraken wrote:Hillary's support is a mile wide and an inch deep.

Not financially. She probably has the deepest, non dark money support of any of the potential 2016 candidates from any party.

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Tue Jul 07, 2015 10:43 pm

Oh, no question about that: If it's possible to buy the nomination, Hillary and her owners are in like Flynn. I was thinking of popular support and (especially) enthusiasm.

Maybe the Bernie thread isn't the best place to ask this, but... is anybody here excited about a Clinton presidency?

Pyperkub · Post by **Pyperkub** » Wed Jul 08, 2015 12:04 am

Honestly? She's saying all the right things and she's taking some relatively bold positions which aren't too wishy washy. I've actually been rather impressed with her this time around.

I do really really want to see her debate sanders tho.

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Wed Jul 08, 2015 2:05 am

Pyperkub wrote:Honestly? She's saying all the right things and she's taking some relatively bold positions which aren't too wishy washy. I've actually been rather impressed with her this time around.

I do really really want to see her debate sanders tho.

She'll say whatever it takes. She's tacking left for the primaries the same way that Republicans tack right for the tea party. Bernie might be able to pin down some commitments that she can't walk back in the general. But convincing me that she means it is an uphill road for Clinton.

Bernie's the real deal, and you just never see that.

Not that I'm shilling or anything...

Seriously, any other Clinton supporters? Isn't electability her only ace in the hole?

Pyperkub · Post by **Pyperkub** » Wed Jul 08, 2015 2:38 am

Kraken wrote:
Pyperkub wrote:Honestly? She's saying all the right things and she's taking some relatively bold positions which aren't too wishy washy. I've actually been rather impressed with her this time around.

I do really really want to see her debate sanders tho.
She'll say whatever it takes.

The thing is that some of the positions she's taken aren't "whatever it takes", or at least not what conventional wisdom would have you think that should be, which is why I said it.

If you aren't coming into the election with a preconceived notion of her being a completely political beast and untrustworthy, then she has done a pretty good job thus far.

In other words, with an open mind, she has been a pretty good candidate, and I loathe a ton of the corporate democrat BS. I'm still more likely to vote Sanders in the Primary (if he makes it to CA), but I'm not as down on her as I was in December. I still don't trust her to actually stick to this newer pattern, but I am willing to give her more of a benefit of the doubt than I was in December.

There's also the idea that I really want to ensure that the decade-plus of right wing attacks on her haven't colored my perception of her. I'll give her the benefit of the doubt for now.

Obama had that from me until he rallied the Senate into voting for warrantless wiretapping towards the end of the primaries, after he had sewn up the nomination. At the time I felt that he was less likely than Clinton to use the tools Dick Cheney provided, but after 8 years I'm willing to consider that I misjudged her then, and try to take a fresh look.

I really want a candidate who will tear down the surveillance state. I don't really think that's her, but I would really like Snowden to be a major topic in both parties' debates. Any candidate with the gumption to come out in support of Snowden (be they small gov't libertarian or 'socialist' - since Bernie may call himself a socialist but he isn't by a long shot) and actually state that they would pardon him as a position will get a huge look from me.

PS please don't characterize me as a 'Clinton supporter', I'm just trying to give her the benefit of the doubt for now. It would have been easy for her to use really safe language in these positions and she hasn't - she's taken many of what I consider to be the right positions, and to hell with the political ramifications of those positions - which I really, really didn't expect from her, and she has earned some respect for that.

Enough? Not yet, but some respect.

Zarathud · Post by **Zarathud** » Wed Jul 08, 2015 2:39 am

Nostalgia for the "good years" of the Clinton era. Although Lewis Black will have to update his "blowjob economics" skit.

My wife's family of Irish Democrats are holding out hope for Biden. He's also an authentic Democrat with strong credentials.

I would like to see the bumper sticker: Vote for Bernie and let's show FOX News what REAL SOCIALISM looks like....

Pyperkub · Post by **Pyperkub** » Wed Jul 08, 2015 2:46 am

Zarathud wrote:Nostalgia for the "good years" of the Clinton era. Although Lewis Black will have to update his "blowjob economics" skit.

My wife's family of Irish Democrats are holding out hope for Biden. He's also an authentic Democrat with strong credentials.

I would like to see the bumper sticker: Vote for Bernie and let's show FOX News what REAL SOCIALISM looks like....

Yeah, Biden has the integrity that I felt Clinton was sorely lacking in back in December. She has taken positions that indicate to me that I may have misjudged her, and I'm interested to continue to follow her.

Sanders has it too. The (perceived?) lack of it is Clinton's biggest flaw in my eyes.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Wed Jul 08, 2015 9:04 am

Pyperkub wrote: Any candidate with the gumption to come out in support of Snowden (be they small gov't libertarian or 'socialist' - since Bernie may call himself a socialist but he isn't by a long shot) and actually state that they would pardon him as a position will get a huge look from me.

That's going to be Rand Paul but he has two major strikes against him. He has been federal Representative for Kentucky. Kentucky's state and federal records for styles of government and corruption have been horrendous. And he is Ron Paul's son and there has been too much covert white supremacist, hide behind states rights to advance bigotry crap going on in the Ron Paul camp for the father to ever regain my trust. I'm not sure what Rand could do to gain my trust and earn my vote but whatever it is, he hasn't even entered the ballpark yet.

Honestly I would much prefer someone on the right with Sanders' track record for integrity and a vision for a better US that is not subservient to a sort of corporate oligarchy but the republican party have pretty much guaranteed that isn't going to happen until they implode.

Carpet_pissr · Post by **Carpet_pissr** » Wed Jul 08, 2015 9:06 am

Kraken wrote: Bernie's the real deal, and you just never see that.

Isn't electability her only ace in the hole?

MOTS is her ace, and why Bernie won't win. He's too unknown, too "real", and what's this about him being a communist?!

B probably is too outside the box for the general voter unfortunately.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:01 am

Carpet_pissr wrote:He's too unknown,

I'm on the outside when it comes to him feeling unknown. I like him, in part, because even though I often don't agree with decisions his decisions are known. He proudly and vocally lets you know where he stands and why and he's done it independent of party or corporate influence.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Wed Jul 08, 2015 4:22 pm

Kraken wrote:My hunch says that Hillary is destined to be a tragic figure.

I'm starting to feel that vibe too. Part of me is gleeful until I realize what the alternative will be.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Wed Jul 08, 2015 4:26 pm

Pyperkub wrote: I really want a candidate who will tear down the surveillance state. I don't really think that's her, but I would really like Snowden to be a major topic in both parties' debates. Any candidate with the gumption to come out in support of Snowden (be they small gov't libertarian or 'socialist' - since Bernie may call himself a socialist but he isn't by a long shot) and actually state that they would pardon him as a position will get a huge look from me.

One of the democrats is running on the Edward Snowden platform, pretty much. That I can't think of which one it is is not a good sign, but I recall when looking over the candidates on both sides, one of the democrats was all about bringing Snowden home as someone who had done a public service, if not a hero.

So you do have a candidate that is all about the surveillance state, I just don't know which one and I'm thinking he's a long shot.

edit: It's Lincoln Chafee.

Pyperkub · Post by **Pyperkub** » Wed Jul 08, 2015 5:43 pm

LordMortis wrote:
Pyperkub wrote: Any candidate with the gumption to come out in support of Snowden (be they small gov't libertarian or 'socialist' - since Bernie may call himself a socialist but he isn't by a long shot) and actually state that they would pardon him as a position will get a huge look from me.
That's going to be Rand Paul but he has two major strikes against him. He has been federal Representative for Kentucky. Kentucky's state and federal records for styles of government and corruption have been horrendous. And he is Ron Paul's son and there has been too much covert white supremacist, hide behind states rights to advance bigotry crap going on in the Ron Paul camp for the father to ever regain my trust. I'm not sure what Rand could do to gain my trust and earn my vote but whatever it is, he hasn't even entered the ballpark yet.

Honestly I would much prefer someone on the right with Sanders' track record for integrity and a vision for a better US that is not subservient to a sort of corporate oligarchy but the republican party have pretty much guaranteed that isn't going to happen until they implode.

Yeah, but his economic policies are a non-starter for me, and I'm not really sold on his integrity either.

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:14 pm

Pyperkub wrote:
Zarathud wrote:Nostalgia for the "good years" of the Clinton era. Although Lewis Black will have to update his "blowjob economics" skit.

My wife's family of Irish Democrats are holding out hope for Biden. He's also an authentic Democrat with strong credentials.

I would like to see the bumper sticker: Vote for Bernie and let's show FOX News what REAL SOCIALISM looks like....
Yeah, Biden has the integrity that I felt Clinton was sorely lacking in back in December. She has taken positions that indicate to me that I may have misjudged her, and I'm interested to continue to follow her.

Sanders has it too. The (perceived?) lack of it is Clinton's biggest flaw in my eyes.

Can anybody articulate Hillary Clinton's core principles? Not based on what she says in this campaign cycle, but based on her lifelong political history? Fireball, I invoke thee!

My take is that the only thing Hillary deeply believes is that Hillary should be the first female president. And I know enough females who agree with her that that, plus her carefully built resume, might be enough.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Thu Jul 09, 2015 8:53 am

Kraken wrote:
Can anybody articulate Hillary Clinton's core principles?

In all seriousness, I think they're whatever she perceives the public wants to hear at the time she espouses them. I know politicians are self serving, but I find the Clintons to be more so than most. I don't want another Clinton or another Bush in the office.

Drazzil · Post by **Drazzil** » Sat Jul 11, 2015 2:17 am

hepcat wrote:
Kraken wrote:
Can anybody articulate Hillary Clinton's core principles?
In all seriousness, I think they're whatever she perceives the public wants to hear at the time she espouses them. I know politicians are self serving, but I find the Clintons to be more so than most. I don't want another Clinton or another Bush in the office.

Me either.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 1:20 pm

Bernie Sanders joins the fight against big cable pricing:

The senators are asking the FCC to investigate how much Americans pay for cable and broadband services by state; how much they pay, on average, by provider; and how much city dwellers pay compared with consumers who live in rural areas.

In terms of something most people can relate to, this is a good move. If he can get me high speed internet access, I'll vote him in as Emperor for life.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 1:23 pm

I really like a lot of what he's saying.

Which means he'll lose.

Drazzil · Post by **Drazzil** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 7:40 pm

I hope I am wrong about this but I think Hillary Clinton is going to win the nod, then lose to whoever the republicans run.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 8:32 pm

The moment Trunp started pulling ahead in the polls, I realized the GOP is in such disarray that it's unlikely they'll be taking the White House this time around. They need to regroup and figure out what the hell they can do to rein in their growing extremist factions. Factions that often come across as either racist or religious fanatics to too many.

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 12:18 am

Drazzil wrote:I hope I am wrong about this but I think Hillary Clinton is going to win the nod, then lose to whoever the republicans run.

I'm of the opposite opinion. If Hillary's the nominee then the D's will win. If their second banana (go Bernie!) is the candidate, they will lose. I do not think that Clinton will win the primaries.

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 12:46 am

Trump's popularity makes me giggle.

It would almost be worth all the damage he might cause to enjoy all the doom-saying and hysteria it would inevitably cause.

Jaymann · Post by **Jaymann** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 1:19 am

Rip wrote:Trump's popularity makes me giggle.

It would almost be worth all the damage he might cause to enjoy all the doom-saying and hysteria it would inevitably cause.

He could lock up the Hispanic vote by selecting Cruz as his running mate!

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 6:48 pm

Ezra Klein interviews the Berner

if I'm a normal politician who needs to raise $20 million, $50 million, where am I going to go? I'm going to sit down with the wealthy, I'm going to go to the country club, I'm going to do my fundraisers at fancy resorts, and I get to know those people. But that's the whole point of this corrupt campaign finance system. If you're going to contribute a million dollars to my Super PAC, well, maybe it's you're a hell of a nice guy and you like to participate, or maybe you want something. I think you want something, and you and I are going to become really good buddies so I can do your bidding. In other words, the millionaire class and the billionaire class increasingly own the political process, and they own the politicians that go to them for money.

I worry very much, and I say this from the bottom of my heart, that we are moving very, very quickly from a democratic society, one person, one vote, to an oligarchic form of society, where billionaires would be determining who the elected officials of this country are. I'm going to do everything I can to stop that.

That ship has sailed. I hope it hasn't already lost sight of land.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 6:51 pm

I grow to love Bernie more and more each day.

Too bad he doesn't stand a chance in hell.

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 7:03 pm

I don't align with him 100%, but maybe 80%, and that's a helluva lot higher than anybody else in politics.

I want to think that a populist can still beat that system without buying into/being bought by it, but I seriously doubt that that's possible. Ultimately the nomination will go to someone who is paid for by the oligarchs (or is one).

Just imagine a Sanders v Trump election though.