The Confederate Flag Thread

[Max Peck]

I reckon the judge took into account that he's just a good ol' boy, never meanin' no harm, beats all you saw, never been in trouble with the law since the day he was born.

[Isgrimnur]

State House suspends Corley.

[Sepiche]

State House suspends Corley.

In a one-two punch Wednesday...

Seems like they could have come up with a better metaphor given the circumstances.

[Isgrimnur]

State House suspends Corley.

In a one-two punch Wednesday...

Seems like they could have come up with a better metaphor given the circumstances.

Perhaps, "Giving him a figurative smackdown..."? "Kicking him while he's down..."?

[Max Peck]

Alt-right’s Richard Spencer leads torch-bearing protesters defending Confederate statue

Self-proclaimed white nationalist Richard Spencer led a large group of demonstrators carrying torches and chanting “You will not replace us” Saturday in Charlottesville, protesting plans to remove a Confederate monument that has played an outsize role in this year’s race for Virginia governor.

“What brings us together is that we are white, we are a people, we will not be replaced,” Spencer said at the first of two rallies he led in the college town where he once attended the University of Virginia.

At the second rally, dozens of torch-bearing protesters gathered in a city park Saturday evening and chanted “You will not replace us” and “Russia is our friend,” local television footage shows. Spencer was not shown addressing that gathering, but he tweeted a photo of himself standing in the crowd carrying what appeared to be a bamboo tiki torch.

The evening protest was short-lived. About 10 minutes in, an altercation between Spencer’s group and counterprotesters drew police to the scene, and the crowd quickly dispersed, the Charlottesville Daily Progress reported.

It is unclear at this time just how many Nazis were punched at the event.

[Holman]

I fully expect to be told that Confederate flags displayed at a white-power march led by the nation's most prominent white supremacist around a statue of Robert E. Lee were not racist.

[Max Peck]

And that chanting "Russia is our friend!" is just being neighborly.

[Chaz]

I bet you can see Russia from there.

[Max Peck]

I bet you can see Russia from there.

Can you see the White House from Virginia? That's pretty much the same thing.

[Chaz]

I bet you can see Russia from there.

Can you see the White House from Virginia? That's pretty much the same thing.

Wait, you mean Mar a Lago, or Kremlin West?

[pr0ner]

Alt-right’s Richard Spencer leads torch-bearing protesters defending Confederate statue
It is unclear at this time just how many Nazis were punched at the event.

Someone on hyperbolic leftist Twitter (DeRay McKesson) called this event "domestic terrorism".

Good lord. While this kind of protest can (and should) certainly be condemned, calling it domestic terrorism is going too far, in my opinion.

[hepcat]

I think what Spencer and his gang were going for was an homage to the days when torch wielding Klan members would attack black families in the middle of the night. In that regard, I can understand labelling this with a stronger sobriquet than simply "protest". Just as putting up a cross with effigies of African Americans could be called an act of terror. I think we sometimes forget that terrorism isn't always bombs or shootings. It can also be threats.

[pr0ner]

I think what Spencer and his gang were going for was an homage to the days when torch wielding Klan members would attack black families. In that regard, I can understand labelling this with a stronger sobriquet than simply "protest". Just as putting up a cross with effigies of African Americans could be called an act of terror. I think we sometimes forget that terrorism isn't always bombs or shootings. It can also be threats.

I can see that, but when people on both sides go for the most extreme language they can think of to describe everything, I think it serves to lessen the impact when something truly horrifying happens, or when something that really is domestic terrorism happens, to use those words all the time.

Of course, I'm speaking about it as a white man and he's speaking about it as a black man, so I'll never be able to truly share his perspective on this sort of thing.

[Defiant]

A torch wielding mob? Seriously? What is this, a Frankenstein movie?

[Holman]

A torch wielding mob? Seriously? What is this, a Frankenstein movie?

Worse. Someone's got a hard-on for Triumph of the Will.

[$iljanus]

A torch wielding mob? Seriously? What is this, a Frankenstein movie?

Worse. Someone's got a hard-on for Triumph of the Will.

With a smattering of Birth of a Nation.

[Unagi]

Of course, I'm speaking about it as a white man and he's speaking about it as a black man, so I'll never be able to truly share his perspective on this sort of thing.

Run with that, I would suggest.

[Holman]

The Mayor of New Orleans' address on the removal of Confederate monuments.

It's well worth reading. It's a long speech, and he doesn't try to paper over the controversy or dodge the important questions.

[noxiousdog]

The Mayor of New Orleans' address on the removal of Confederate monuments.

It's well worth reading. It's a long speech, and he doesn't try to paper over the controversy or dodge the important questions.

That was really excellent.

[LawBeefaroni]

The Mayor of New Orleans' address on the removal of Confederate monuments.

It's well worth reading. It's a long speech, and he doesn't try to paper over the controversy or dodge the important questions.

That was really excellent.

Not to be outdone, Mississippi weighs in...

A Republican state lawmaker in Mississippi is apologizing after saying leaders in Louisiana who took down Confederate monuments should be "lynched."

[msteelers]

The Mayor of New Orleans' address on the removal of Confederate monuments.

It's well worth reading. It's a long speech, and he doesn't try to paper over the controversy or dodge the important questions.

Great speech. Thanks for posting it.

[Pyperkub]

Loved it too!

[Grifman]

Here's an excellent article on why these statues should come down:

http://www.weeklystandard.com/confedera ... le/2007785

[em2nought]

Since you'd expect no less of me.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... issue.html

[tgb]

For you country music fans in the house:

I just discovered there's a country band that's a big deal called Lady Antebellum.

WTF???? How do they get away with that?

Can I start a country group called Jim Crow and the Firehoses?

[pr0ner]

Perhaps because when that band formed, people weren't as "woke" (ugh, what a terrible word) as they are now and therefore didn't care as much about any racial overtones that band name might carry?

[tgb]

Perhaps because when that band formed, people weren't as "woke" (ugh, what a terrible word) as they are now and therefore didn't care as much about any racial overtones that band name might carry?

Can't you say the same thing about when the Confederate statues were erected? Besides which, according to allmusic.com. they formed in 2007.

[Max Peck]

Perhaps because when that band formed, people weren't as "woke" (ugh, what a terrible word) as they are now and therefore didn't care as much about any racial overtones that band name might carry?

Can't you say the same thing about when the Confederate statues were erected? Besides which, according to allmusic.com. they formed in 2007.

According to their origin story:

On the BBC Radio 2 Drivetime Show August 9, 2010, the band explained to the host, Liza Tarbuck, that the name Antebellum comes from when the group were photographing "antebellum" homes. The antebellum architectural style describes the large plantation homes in the American South. The Latin word bellum means "war"; "antebellum" therefore means "before the war". In America specifically, the Antebellum era commonly refers to the period before the Civil War. While photographing the houses one of the group said that there's a great band name in there, and they adopted the Lady Antebellum name shortly after.

[Holman]

Yeah, strictly speaking "antebellum" is not a term limited to slavery and secession-related issues, although it does have that resonance.

My mother loves antebellum American architecture, and she has books full of it. To her it's all about the columns and the wainscotting, but it's hard not to notice that 80% of the pictures are plantations.

[tgb]

In the US, anyway, I don't think you can divorce "antebellum" from slavery and plantations any more than you can divorce Confederacy from slavery and plantations.

The swastika is 5000 years old and is a sacred symbol in Hinduism and Buddhism. Want to try walking down the street with one on your arm and seeing what happens?

[RunningMn9]

I'm going to disagree here. I mean, I agree that antebellum necessarily has slavery connotations, but I don't think the word has a connection like that on the level of the swastika or the Confederacy itself. It's the name of the architecture from that period. Yes, it refers almost exclusively to southern plantation homes from that era, but what are we supposed to do? Raze all the homes? Change the name of the architecture?

I would put this name on the same level as The Dixie Chicks.

When I draw my line, I'm comfortable putting it near "celebrating traitors to their country", rather than "name of architectural style from the time period in that area".

[Holman]

There are definitely senses in which "antebellum" has nothing to do with the soon-to-be Confederacy. I know historians who do "immigration in the antebellum period," and they write about the Irish and Germans in New York.

But "antebellum style" is very much bound up with the Old South and the luxurious way of life enjoyed by some. The grandness of the architecture has everything to do with minimal labor costs.

[Grifman]

For you country music fans in the house:

I just discovered there's a country band that's a big deal called Lady Antebellum.

WTF???? How do they get away with that?

Can I start a country group called Jim Crow and the Firehoses?

You are totally over reacting. As others have said, "antebellum" means "pre-war"' and doesn't necessarily imply slavery.

[hepcat]

Since you'd expect no less of me.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... issue.html

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here.

[Isgrimnur]

Since you'd expect no less of me.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... issue.html

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here.

A county commissioner made a request to an organization that runs an establishment business on county grounds. If it weren't for the subject of the request, there would be no media coverage.

[pr0ner]

I saw one of my more liberal friends tweet a thread by someone bashing the Maryland state flag as being racist because it uses a Confederate era Crossland Banner as half the flag.

Of course, the thread ended thusly:

The real legacy of the Maryland flag is actually the unwillingness of white people to rid themselves completely of racism.

And the Maryland state flag is one of the most iconic out there (even if it leads to ugly as sin football jerseys...). Oy.

[El Guapo]

For you country music fans in the house:

I just discovered there's a country band that's a big deal called Lady Antebellum.

WTF???? How do they get away with that?

Can I start a country group called Jim Crow and the Firehoses?

You are totally over reacting. As others have said, "antebellum" means "pre-war"' and doesn't necessarily imply slavery.

In the U.S. antebellum in 90% of contexts means pre-civil war. In the further context of a southern country music group, it specifically connotes association with the pre-civil war south. I am sure that the group is not racists or pro-slavery or anything, but the name is part of a broader romanticism of a region and a time mainly known for its system of mass slavery.

Using that name is kind of like sporting the Confederate flag. It's not that the person doing so is pro-slavery or anything, they're just identifying themselves with a slaveholding time and cause.

Or maybe they're super into that architecture style. That's probably it.

[noxiousdog]

For you country music fans in the house:

I just discovered there's a country band that's a big deal called Lady Antebellum.

WTF???? How do they get away with that?

Can I start a country group called Jim Crow and the Firehoses?

You are totally over reacting. As others have said, "antebellum" means "pre-war"' and doesn't necessarily imply slavery.

In the U.S. antebellum in 90% of contexts means pre-civil war. In the further context of a southern country music group, it specifically connotes association with the pre-civil war south. I am sure that the group is not racists or pro-slavery or anything, but the name is part of a broader romanticism of a region and a time mainly known for its system of mass slavery.

Using that name is kind of like sporting the Confederate flag. It's not that the person doing so is pro-slavery or anything, they're just identifying themselves with a slaveholding time and cause.

Or maybe they're super into that architecture style. That's probably it.

I don't want to read into this, but are you implying anyone interested in the 1700's south shouldn't do so because there was slavery and people take it wrong?

[Isgrimnur]

Wiki

On the BBC Radio 2 Drivetime Show August 9, 2010, the band explained to the host, Liza Tarbuck, that the name Antebellum comes from when the group were photographing "antebellum" homes. The antebellum architectural style describes the large plantation homes in the American South.
... While photographing the houses one of the group said that there's a great band name in there, and they adopted the Lady Antebellum name shortly after.

So there's that.

Since January 2012, Lady Antebellum has been partnered with the charity myLIFEspeaks, to raise awareness of and provide facilities for disabled orphans in Haiti.

[tgb]

I don't want to read into this, but are you implying anyone interested in the 1700's south shouldn't do so because there was slavery and people take it wrong?

No, he's saying that naming your band in way that honors 17th century South is probably a dumb idea. Which I guess it turns out they didn't do anyway, although they probably should have thought it through.