Fundraising for 2020/2021: Currently at $1580. Fundraising has begun, see the global post for options. Paypal Donation Links US dollars CDN Dollars

The Confederate Flag Thread

For discussion of religion and politics

Moderators: LawBeefaroni, $iljanus

Post Reply
User avatar
Grifman
Posts: 18692
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 7:17 pm

Re: The Confederate Flag Thread

Post by Grifman »

Isgrimnur wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 12:53 pm
War is Boring
The Navy operates one ship, a guided-missile cruiser named the USS Chancellorsville, commissioned in 1989 in honor of the Civil War battle that occurred in Virginia. Some historians consider the battle a major Confederate victory, according to an August 2017 Congressional Research Service report on military installations with Confederate names.
This is totally irrelevant. The Navy has a long history of naming ships after famous battles in US history. Are we really going to start ignoring battles that happened to be Confederate victories against Union forces?
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions. – G.K. Chesterton

User avatar
Combustible Lemur
Posts: 3832
Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2005 10:17 pm
Location: houston, TX
Contact:

Re: The Confederate Flag Thread

Post by Combustible Lemur »

Grifman wrote:
Isgrimnur wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 12:53 pm
War is Boring
The Navy operates one ship, a guided-missile cruiser named the USS Chancellorsville, commissioned in 1989 in honor of the Civil War battle that occurred in Virginia. Some historians consider the battle a major Confederate victory, according to an August 2017 Congressional Research Service report on military installations with Confederate names.
This is totally irrelevant. The Navy has a long history of naming ships after famous battles in US history. Are we really going to start ignoring battles that happened to be Confederate victories against Union forces?
With the current state of our society and the the gross legacy of using historical ties to the confederacy to gall and subdue racial minorities in the south...... Maybe.
It even mentions in the article that this was just prior to the world wars when there was specifically a resurgence of racially aggravating symbols across the country.



Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

Is Scott home? thump thump thump Crash ......No.

User avatar
em2nought
Posts: 3896
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 5:48 am

Re: The Confederate Flag Thread

Post by em2nought »

Combustible Lemur wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 10:37 am
It even mentions in the article that this was just prior to the world wars when there was specifically a resurgence of racially aggravating symbols across the country.
Maybe it was just a good way to get southerners to volunteer to go die in the trenches on the Western Front? :think:

Not all ships are named after victories.
Enlarge Image
Waiting for the tide to bring me a sail.

User avatar
hepcat
Posts: 40433
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:02 pm
Location: Chicago, IL Home of the triple homicide!
hepcat’s avatar
Loading…

Re: The Confederate Flag Thread

Post by hepcat »

Combustible Lemur wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 10:37 am
Grifman wrote:
Isgrimnur wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 12:53 pm
War is Boring
The Navy operates one ship, a guided-missile cruiser named the USS Chancellorsville, commissioned in 1989 in honor of the Civil War battle that occurred in Virginia. Some historians consider the battle a major Confederate victory, according to an August 2017 Congressional Research Service report on military installations with Confederate names.
This is totally irrelevant. The Navy has a long history of naming ships after famous battles in US history. Are we really going to start ignoring battles that happened to be Confederate victories against Union forces?
With the current state of our society and the the gross legacy of using historical ties to the confederacy to gall and subdue racial minorities in the south...... Maybe.
It even mentions in the article that this was just prior to the world wars when there was specifically a resurgence of racially aggravating symbols across the country.



Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
I’m good with naming them only after Union victories if going with Civil War battles. We don’t name our vessels after battles we lost in other wars, do we? Legit question, by the way. I don’t know offhand.
I beat a camel to death with a monkey. Can I do that?
-Mr Bismarck

You have to whack a few rabbits before you are ready to punch a camel.
-Coopasonic

User avatar
em2nought
Posts: 3896
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 5:48 am

Re: The Confederate Flag Thread

Post by em2nought »

hepcat wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 2:10 pm
We don’t name our vessels after battles we lost in other wars, do we? Legit question, by the way. I don’t know offhand.
That's the USS Bunker Hill in the photograph so...

By Union standards up until Gettysburg, not running as fast as your legs could carry you the whole way back to D.C. after a battle might be an accomplishment. :wink: Again, I doubt any confederate flag waving yokel likes to hear mention of Chancellorsville even if it was a battlefield victory. I think they'd have rather lost on the books, and kept Stonewall Jackson alive.

...and a more contemporary example https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Wake_Island

It seems to be losses where at least a significant stand was made? :think:
Waiting for the tide to bring me a sail.

User avatar
LawBeefaroni
Forum Moderator
Posts: 49006
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:08 pm
Location: Urbs in Horto, where we only use the old smilies
LawBeefaroni OO’s avatar
Loading…

Re: The Confederate Flag Thread

Post by LawBeefaroni »

hepcat wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 2:10 pm
Combustible Lemur wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 10:37 am
Grifman wrote:
Isgrimnur wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 12:53 pm
War is Boring
The Navy operates one ship, a guided-missile cruiser named the USS Chancellorsville, commissioned in 1989 in honor of the Civil War battle that occurred in Virginia. Some historians consider the battle a major Confederate victory, according to an August 2017 Congressional Research Service report on military installations with Confederate names.
This is totally irrelevant. The Navy has a long history of naming ships after famous battles in US history. Are we really going to start ignoring battles that happened to be Confederate victories against Union forces?
With the current state of our society and the the gross legacy of using historical ties to the confederacy to gall and subdue racial minorities in the south...... Maybe.
It even mentions in the article that this was just prior to the world wars when there was specifically a resurgence of racially aggravating symbols across the country.



Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
I’m good with naming them only after Union victories if going with Civil War battles. We don’t name our vessels after battles we lost in other wars, do we? Legit question, by the way. I don’t know offhand.
Does this count?

USS Falmouth

Burning of Falmouth.
" Hey OP, listen to my advice alright." -Tha General
"No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton

MYT

User avatar
em2nought
Posts: 3896
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 5:48 am

Re: The Confederate Flag Thread

Post by em2nought »

LawBeefaroni wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 2:51 pm

Does this count?

USS Falmouth

Burning of Falmouth.
I think this is the Battle of Falmouth they were thinking of http://woodsholemuseum.org/giffordpaint ... itish.html
Waiting for the tide to bring me a sail.

User avatar
Blackhawk
Posts: 29289
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 9:48 pm
Location: Southwest Indiana
Contact:
Blackhawk’s avatar
Loading…

Re: The Confederate Flag Thread

Post by Blackhawk »

You all give the Confederate flag folks too much credit. I doubt 99% of them could even identify most of the named battles as being in the Civil War, let alone who won them or who died there. The flag is 'their heritage', they just have no clue what that heritage actually is.

/edit - and just to be fair, I doubt the other side would do much better.
________________________________________
A last hope

User avatar
LordMortis
Posts: 63094
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:26 pm

Re: The Confederate Flag Thread

Post by LordMortis »

Why is it every time I try to find common cause with "Democrats are responsible for Jim Crow and racism" by agreeing and asking to eliminate their influence by removing all these monuments to their bigotry the laser focused talking point shifts?

User avatar
LawBeefaroni
Forum Moderator
Posts: 49006
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:08 pm
Location: Urbs in Horto, where we only use the old smilies
LawBeefaroni OO’s avatar
Loading…

Re: The Confederate Flag Thread

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Arguments born of rote memorization aren't up for discussion.
" Hey OP, listen to my advice alright." -Tha General
"No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton

MYT

User avatar
Grifman
Posts: 18692
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 7:17 pm

Re: The Confederate Flag Thread

Post by Grifman »

hepcat wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 2:10 pm
Combustible Lemur wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 10:37 am
Grifman wrote:
Isgrimnur wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 12:53 pm
War is Boring
The Navy operates one ship, a guided-missile cruiser named the USS Chancellorsville, commissioned in 1989 in honor of the Civil War battle that occurred in Virginia. Some historians consider the battle a major Confederate victory, according to an August 2017 Congressional Research Service report on military installations with Confederate names.
This is totally irrelevant. The Navy has a long history of naming ships after famous battles in US history. Are we really going to start ignoring battles that happened to be Confederate victories against Union forces?
With the current state of our society and the the gross legacy of using historical ties to the confederacy to gall and subdue racial minorities in the south...... Maybe.
It even mentions in the article that this was just prior to the world wars when there was specifically a resurgence of racially aggravating symbols across the country.



Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
I’m good with naming them only after Union victories if going with Civil War battles. We don’t name our vessels after battles we lost in other wars, do we? Legit question, by the way. I don’t know offhand.
Late reading and responding but I know the Navy has had a USS Bataan, and that was no shining victory.
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions. – G.K. Chesterton

User avatar
Holman
Posts: 23521
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:00 pm
Location: Approximately Wissahickon

Re: The Confederate Flag Thread

Post by Holman »

The modern US military was codified in an era (WW1 to WW2) when the ACW was understood as a family squabble recently overcome. (See for example D-Day's famous 29th Infantry Division, called "Blue and Gray" because its regiments included soldiers from Virginia and from northern states.) Many domestic bases were established or expanded during this era, so you get Fort Bragg, Fort Hood, etc simply because they were seen as recognizing local military figures.

At the time, national healing meant accommodation between whites and whites on both sides of the Mason-Dixon line. African-American concerns were not yet part of the national narrative. Clearly times have changed since then.

Besides, (for example) Braxton Bragg was a pretty shitty commander all around.
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.

User avatar
LordMortis
Posts: 63094
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:26 pm

Re: The Confederate Flag Thread

Post by LordMortis »

Wow

Image

User avatar
Holman
Posts: 23521
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:00 pm
Location: Approximately Wissahickon

Re: The Confederate Flag Thread

Post by Holman »

Proud to see that. I was born in DeKalb County.
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.

malchior
Posts: 12199
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 pm

Re: The Confederate Flag Thread

Post by malchior »

Pretty awesome. On a random note I saw a confederate flag license plate in Edmonton on Friday on the way to the airport. Thought it was odd...but not familiar with linkages to Canada with the Confederacy and/or potential other meanings.

User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 66134
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:
Isgrimnur’s avatar
Loading…

Re: The Confederate Flag Thread

Post by Isgrimnur »

Stay classy, Alabama.

CNN
As cities and states grapple with the future of Confederate monuments, the Alabama Supreme Court has weighed in on one: Putting plywood around its base violated state law.

The court on Wednesday upheld the state's protections of the monuments and cited Birmingham for building a black wooden box around the memorial. The city will be hit with a $25,000 fine.

Earlier this year, Jefferson County Circuit Judge Michael Graffeo overturned the Alabama Memorial Preservation Act, saying it violated the free-speech rights of communities.

That 2017 law -- directed at local governments -- bars the removal, renaming, removal and alteration of monuments, memorial streets, memorial buildings and architecturally significant buildings located on public property for 40 or more years.
...
The high court heard arguments on whether the plywood screen "altered" or "otherwise disturbed" the monument. In its 9-0 ruling, the justices said that it did by obstructing the view.

As to Birmingham's argument that it has a right to free speech, the court ruled "the city cannot assert any substantive constitutional rights against its creator state."

User avatar
Zarathud
Posts: 14270
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 10:29 pm
Location: Chicago, Illinois

Re: The Confederate Flag Thread

Post by Zarathud »

Irony, thy name is States Rights.
"If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts." - Albert Einstein
"I don't stand by anything." - Trump
“Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing.” - John Stuart Mill, Inaugural Address Delivered to the University of St Andrews, 2/1/1867
“It is the impractical things in this tumultuous hell-scape of a world that matter most. A book, a name, chicken soup. They help us remember that, even in our darkest hour, life is still to be savored.” - Poe, Altered Carbon

User avatar
dbt1949
Posts: 21768
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:34 am
Location: Hogeye Arkansas

Re: The Confederate Flag Thread

Post by dbt1949 »

Some day they will do all this to Vietnam veterans too.
Ye Olde Farte
Double Ought Forty
aka dbt1949

User avatar
Kurth
Posts: 3684
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 1:19 am
Location: Portland

Re: The Confederate Flag Thread

Post by Kurth »

dbt1949 wrote:
Thu Nov 28, 2019 10:47 am
Some day they will do all this to Vietnam veterans too.
Some say the Earth is flat and the moon is made of cheese. Some say our President isn't an orangutang. Some say a lot of stuff.
The Net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it -- John Gilmore

User avatar
dbt1949
Posts: 21768
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:34 am
Location: Hogeye Arkansas

Re: The Confederate Flag Thread

Post by dbt1949 »

Image
Ye Olde Farte
Double Ought Forty
aka dbt1949

User avatar
stessier
Posts: 25867
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2004 12:30 pm
Location: SC

Re: The Confederate Flag Thread

Post by stessier »

Kurth wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 4:24 am
dbt1949 wrote:
Thu Nov 28, 2019 10:47 am
Some day they will do all this to Vietnam veterans too.
Some say the Earth is flat and the moon is made of cheese. Some say our President isn't an orangutang. Some say a lot of stuff.
Did you misread his quote?
I require a reminder as to why raining arcane destruction is not an appropriate response to all of life's indignities. - Vaarsuvius
Global Steam Wishmaslist Tracking
Running____2014: 1300.55 miles____2015: 2036.13 miles____2016: 1012.75 miles____2017: 1105.82 miles____2018: 1318.91 miles__2019: 2000.00 miles

User avatar
Holman
Posts: 23521
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:00 pm
Location: Approximately Wissahickon

Re: The Confederate Flag Thread

Post by Holman »

dbt1949 wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:37 am
Image
If I had to guess, I'd say this was the work of drunk pissed-off kids rather than any political statement. (I honestly can't think of a group held in higher public regard than veterans. Examples of asshole graffiti do nothing to change that.)

This is a whole world away from the debate over Confederate monuments.
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.

User avatar
El Guapo
Posts: 35093
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:01 pm
Location: Boston

Re: The Confederate Flag Thread

Post by El Guapo »

Holman wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:13 am
dbt1949 wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:37 am
Image
If I had to guess, I'd say this was the work of drunk pissed-off kids rather than any political statement. (I honestly can't think of a group held in higher public regard than veterans. Examples of asshole graffiti do nothing to change that.)

This is a whole world away from the debate over Confederate monuments.
Also, seems like this comparison is implicitly equating U.S. military veterans with Confederate veterans, in terms of status and where they are / should be in national memory? Seems odd to me. Why would questions about how to memoralize the veterans of an insurrection against the U.S. government (a literally traitorous cause) mean that people will one day turn on U.S. veterans from the Vietnam War?

User avatar
LawBeefaroni
Forum Moderator
Posts: 49006
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:08 pm
Location: Urbs in Horto, where we only use the old smilies
LawBeefaroni OO’s avatar
Loading…

Re: The Confederate Flag Thread

Post by LawBeefaroni »

El Guapo wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:23 am
Holman wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:13 am
dbt1949 wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:37 am
Image
If I had to guess, I'd say this was the work of drunk pissed-off kids rather than any political statement. (I honestly can't think of a group held in higher public regard than veterans. Examples of asshole graffiti do nothing to change that.)

This is a whole world away from the debate over Confederate monuments.
Also, seems like this comparison is implicitly equating U.S. military veterans with Confederate veterans, in terms of status and where they are / should be in national memory? Seems odd to me. Why would questions about how to memoralize the veterans of an insurrection against the U.S. government (a literally traitorous cause) mean that people will one day turn on U.S. veterans from the Vietnam War?
Well, did turn on them once. I'd like to think we learned a valuable lesson but can't blame Vietnam vets for being doubtful.


Side note, I'm working on a project to identify and catalog all the veterans' memorials in my neighborhood. I have about 12 I'm aware of but there are probably several we haven't found yet (many were put up by block clubs on the sides of buildings during/immediately after wars and are hidden or covered) . 9 WWII, 3 Korea. No Vietnam. Ultimately we may put up a Vietnam one.
" Hey OP, listen to my advice alright." -Tha General
"No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton

MYT

User avatar
El Guapo
Posts: 35093
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:01 pm
Location: Boston

Re: The Confederate Flag Thread

Post by El Guapo »

LawBeefaroni wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 12:40 pm
El Guapo wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:23 am
Holman wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:13 am
dbt1949 wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:37 am
Image
If I had to guess, I'd say this was the work of drunk pissed-off kids rather than any political statement. (I honestly can't think of a group held in higher public regard than veterans. Examples of asshole graffiti do nothing to change that.)

This is a whole world away from the debate over Confederate monuments.
Also, seems like this comparison is implicitly equating U.S. military veterans with Confederate veterans, in terms of status and where they are / should be in national memory? Seems odd to me. Why would questions about how to memoralize the veterans of an insurrection against the U.S. government (a literally traitorous cause) mean that people will one day turn on U.S. veterans from the Vietnam War?
Well, did turn on them once. I'd like to think we learned a valuable lesson but can't blame Vietnam vets for being doubtful.


Side note, I'm working on a project to identify and catalog all the veterans' memorials in my neighborhood. I have about 12 I'm aware of but there are probably several we haven't found yet (many were put up by block clubs on the sides of buildings during/immediately after wars and are hidden or covered) . 9 WWII, 3 Korea. No Vietnam. Ultimately we may put up a Vietnam one.
Yeah, I would think that hostility to Vietnam Vets would be more the issue than how Confederate vets were / are treated. But I think it's fair to say that the hostility to Vietnam Vets (which was mostly contemporaneous with the war) has subsided, and I'm not sure there's much of a reason to expect it to come back.

User avatar
Blackhawk
Posts: 29289
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 9:48 pm
Location: Southwest Indiana
Contact:
Blackhawk’s avatar
Loading…

Re: The Confederate Flag Thread

Post by Blackhawk »

Don't mistake the actions of individuals for the views of a society. The anti-vietnam wave of the 60s and 70s was a product of the blind idealism of the era, and we grew past it. Vietnam veterans are generally respected the same as any other veterans, and many Americans are ashamed at how they were treated, both by the protestors and by the government. We've had wars since that were unjustified and unpopular, and people went out of their way to make it clear that despite their feelings about the politics, they supported the troops themselves. We have, I like to think, learned our lesson.

The Confederacy, on the other hand, is a completely different matter. It's more akin to why there are no Nazi monuments in Germany. The cause was a shameful one, and doesn't need to be memorialized heroically.
________________________________________
A last hope

User avatar
LawBeefaroni
Forum Moderator
Posts: 49006
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:08 pm
Location: Urbs in Horto, where we only use the old smilies
LawBeefaroni OO’s avatar
Loading…

Re: The Confederate Flag Thread

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Blackhawk wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 1:12 pm
We've had wars since that were unjustified and unpopular, and people went out of their way to make it clear that despite their feelings about the politics, they supported the troops themselves. We have, I like to think, learned our lesson.

The lesson we appear to have learned is to trot out our new veterans at sporting events, spout off rote "thank you for your service," and leave them to fend off depression, PTSD, and everything else on their own.
" Hey OP, listen to my advice alright." -Tha General
"No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton

MYT

User avatar
Blackhawk
Posts: 29289
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 9:48 pm
Location: Southwest Indiana
Contact:
Blackhawk’s avatar
Loading…

Re: The Confederate Flag Thread

Post by Blackhawk »

Fair point. But that's still a far cry from throwing things at them and belittling them.
________________________________________
A last hope

User avatar
hitbyambulance
Posts: 7101
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:51 am
Location: Map Ref 47.6°N 122.35°W
Contact:
Battlefinch’s avatar
Loading…

Re: The Confederate Flag Thread

Post by hitbyambulance »

LawBeefaroni wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 2:02 pm
Blackhawk wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 1:12 pm
We've had wars since that were unjustified and unpopular, and people went out of their way to make it clear that despite their feelings about the politics, they supported the troops themselves. We have, I like to think, learned our lesson.

The lesson we appear to have learned is to trot out our new veterans at sporting events, spout off rote "thank you for your service," and leave them to fend off depression, PTSD, and everything else on their own.
substandard health care in general. my uncle died because the crappy VA hospital he went to misdiagnosed TWO different cancers. (and my aunt died three weeks later, so she could even be considered an indirect casualty)

User avatar
Kurth
Posts: 3684
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 1:19 am
Location: Portland

Re: The Confederate Flag Thread

Post by Kurth »

stessier wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:59 am
Kurth wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 4:24 am
dbt1949 wrote:
Thu Nov 28, 2019 10:47 am
Some day they will do all this to Vietnam veterans too.
Some say the Earth is flat and the moon is made of cheese. Some say our President isn't an orangutang. Some say a lot of stuff.
Did you misread his quote?
Yep. I did. Same general point, though, which is made better by some of the later posts: Any equivalence between confederate monuments and memorials to Vietnam veterans (or vets from any conflict, regardless of popular support for that conflict) is entirely false.
The Net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it -- John Gilmore

User avatar
Smoove_B
Posts: 42782
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 am
Location: Kaer Morhen

Re: The Confederate Flag Thread

Post by Smoove_B »

Nikki Haley, trying to take it back!


Nikki Haley says the Confederate flag was about "service, and sacrifice, and heritage" until Dylan Roof "hijacked" it
Service, sacrifice and heritage. Those are three words I would not use to describe the Confederate flag, no.

User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 66134
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:
Isgrimnur’s avatar
Loading…

Re: The Confederate Flag Thread

Post by Isgrimnur »

Smoove_B wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 3:08 pm
Service, sacrifice and heritage. Those are three words I would not use to describe the Confederate flag, no.
Not without appropriate adjectives or prepositional phrases.

User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 66134
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:
Isgrimnur’s avatar
Loading…

Re: The Confederate Flag Thread

Post by Isgrimnur »

WaPo
Visions of sugar plums were not dancing in the heads of officials in Wake Forest, N.C. Instead, they saw protesters violently clashing with members of a local Confederate group who were set to march in the town’s 72nd annual Christmas parade later this month.

So to be safe, the town canceled it.

In a Wednesday night video message, Wake Forest Mayor Vivian Jones announced that the town’s downtown board of directors voted to cancel the Dec. 14 Christmas parade out of concern that “outside agitators” would show up to protest or defend the Sons and Daughters of the Confederacy, who planned to march in the event.

The decision in Wake Forest, located less than 20 miles outside Raleigh, comes almost a week after another nearby town, Garner, N.C., announced it was canceling its Christmas parade over possible protests of a float sponsored by a local Confederate group, the Raleigh News & Observer reported.

By the end of her video announcement, Jones was fighting tears.

“Based on information we have received in recent days, this year’s event has the potential to be one marked not by marching bands and Santa Claus but instead by protests between clashing groups from outside Wake Forest, with innocent bystanders caught in the middle,” Jones said. “It is due to these concerns that I support the decision of the Wake Forest Downtown Board of Directors to deny these outside agitators the opportunity to use Wake Forest to spread hate and incite violence.”

User avatar
Holman
Posts: 23521
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:00 pm
Location: Approximately Wissahickon

Re: The Confederate Flag Thread

Post by Holman »

...until Dylan Roof "hijacked" it.
Enlarge Image

(Some of the kids in that photo are probably alive and watching Fox right now.)
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.

User avatar
$iljanus
Forum Moderator
Posts: 11796
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:46 pm
Location: New England...or under your bed

Re: The Confederate Flag Thread

Post by $iljanus »

Holman wrote:
...until Dylan Roof "hijacked" it.
Enlarge Image

(Some of the kids in that photo are probably alive and watching Fox right now.)
Or in the current administration...
tl;dr

Wise words of warning from Smoove B: Oh, how you all laughed when I warned you about the semen. Well, who's laughing now?

User avatar
LawBeefaroni
Forum Moderator
Posts: 49006
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:08 pm
Location: Urbs in Horto, where we only use the old smilies
LawBeefaroni OO’s avatar
Loading…

Re: The Confederate Flag Thread

Post by LawBeefaroni »

She's actually giving a big shout out to Roof, knowingly or not. That's exactly what he wants and the media has been very good about keeping his name out of things. But there she goes...
" Hey OP, listen to my advice alright." -Tha General
"No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton

MYT

User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 66134
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:
Isgrimnur’s avatar
Loading…

Re: The Confederate Flag Thread

Post by Isgrimnur »

NPR
A judge has overturned a contentious settlement that the University of North Carolina system reached with the Sons of Confederate Veterans over the Confederate monument known as Silent Sam.

The November 2019 agreement required the UNC system to give Silent Sam to the Sons of Confederate Veterans, along with $2.5 million for its preservation and display. It was announced within minutes of a lawsuit filed by the group.

Orange County Superior Court Judge Allen Baddour — who originally signed off on that settlement — ruled Wednesday that the group lacked standing to bring its lawsuit in the first place.

User avatar
LordMortis
Posts: 63094
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:26 pm

Re: The Confederate Flag Thread

Post by LordMortis »

https://www.military.com/daily-news/202 ... bases.html
As states continue to grapple with the passionate debate over whether to display statues and other tributes to Confederate leaders, Marines have been told the materials won't be tolerated on any of the Corps' installations.

Commandant Gen. David Berger last week instructed top Marine leaders to remove Confederate-related paraphernalia from the service's bases worldwide. The directive is one of several forward-leaning initiatives Berger said he is "prioritizing for immediate execution."

:clap:

It's weird the things I get happy over when I generally try to be mindful and respectful. This is just one of me irrational bugaboos. A symbol of treasonous pride I can't get past. I never saw it when I was kid watching The Dukes of Hazard but then guess I never saw local skin heads with battleflag patches or angry white pickup drivers addicted to guns and beer with whatever it is they have to prove when I was a kid either. (Come to think of it, drunks with guns and something intangible to prove is primarily why I never took on becoming a next generation of hunter after my parents and their parents before them)


Do what you want on your stuff. But thank you Commandant Gen. David Berger for taking it out of the Marines.

User avatar
Blackhawk
Posts: 29289
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 9:48 pm
Location: Southwest Indiana
Contact:
Blackhawk’s avatar
Loading…

Re: The Confederate Flag Thread

Post by Blackhawk »

I wonder how long until Trump counters it, the Commandant resigns, and Trump assigns Rush Limbaugh to the position.
________________________________________
A last hope

User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 66134
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:
Isgrimnur’s avatar
Loading…

Re: The Confederate Flag Thread

Post by Isgrimnur »

CNN
State Sen. Dale Zorn, a Republican from Ida, apologized in a pair of Twitter posts Saturday for the face mask that he wore on the Michigan Senate floor on Friday.

"I'm sorry for my choice of pattern on the face mask I wore yesterday on the Senate floor. I did not intend to offend anyone; however, I realize that I did, and for that I am sorry. Those who know me best know that I do not support the things this pattern represents," Zorn said.

Zorn, in an interview with CNN affiliate WLNS, said his wife made the face mask for him and it was not a Confederate flag. He said that even if it were a Confederate flag, it represents a part of our history and we should be teaching about the "atrocities that happened during that time" so it doesn't happen again.

He told WLNS the mask was a pattern similar to that of either the Kentucky or Tennessee flag.

"My actions were an error in judgment for which there are no excuses and I will learn from this episode," he added in his apology statement on social media.
Image

Enlarge Image Enlarge Image

The correct bullshit answer would have been Arkansas or Mississippi, Senator.

Enlarge Image Enlarge Image

Post Reply